Hillsborough who is to blamee

passionflower


Joined: 20/09/2011
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
18/10/2011 09:47

They came late the turnstiles and gates were rushed



Half an hour before kick-off a bottleneck began to form outside the Leppings Lane. The turnstiles couldn't let enough supporters in quickly enough to ease the pressure building up outside the ground and by ► 3pm more than 5,000 Liverpool fans were still outside the stadium.◄



Police ordered a gate to the stand to be opened because they believed the pressure of fans outside the ground was "a danger to life". ►Gate C was intended as an exit and did not have turnstiles,◄► so a rush of supporters entered the stadium.

So just who is to blame for the deaths ?



If the 5000 Liverpool supporters outside had arrived 2 hours earlier would the events still have happened would there have been any need to open gate C ? or is it all a government conspiracy to protect the police ?

OR does the blame lay with the F.A and their ticket allocation? Nottingham Forest had 21,000 standing places compared with Liverpoo

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
18/10/2011 09:58

msg1 22years on ,I think the facts are now to eroded to form an opinion on who was to blame...A tragic episode none the less..

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
18/10/2011 10:16

South Yorkshire police



Sheffield city council



The FA



Facts are not eroded for those of us who attended multiple cup semi finals at Hillsborough and knew the inherent problems.



No I'm not a Liverpool fan.

arrry



Joined: 19/08/2008
Posts: 1235

Message Posted:
18/10/2011 10:29

Personally i do not think the Police should take all the blame.....but they probably will . In my opinion the F A should take equal blame for not giving Liverpool the Kop End ,because it was bigger and they had more supporters with tickets than Forest did. If you ever went through the Leppings Lane end you will know what a dingy horrible tunnel it was !! All you wanted to do was to get through it !



Can you imagine what it must have been like for Kenny Dalglish that day ? He was in the dressing room unaware of what was happening .While his son Paul was in the Leppings Lane end with the Liverpool supporters.!! He only found out he was safe when he saw him walk across the pitch !!



I watched the Bradford City fire disaster unfold in 1985 killing 56 people . They put it down to a cigarette end or a match. Two terrible disasters costing 152 lives.... at a football game !!

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
18/10/2011 10:49

arrry;



you're right about the disparity between ends but that wasn't down to the FA, it was down to traffic police.



As you should know the direction the respective fans came from determined which end they got.



Hence Spurs for some dumb reason got Lemmings lane (sic) while the smaller Wolves contingent got the kop in 1981. Enjoyed the replay at the library though!

carian


Joined: 13/03/2009
Posts: 336

Message Posted:
18/10/2011 11:01

What appalled us at the time was the claims for compensation made by the police. The Fire & Ambulance services didn't claim and yet they had to deal with that awful day as much ( or maybe more ) as the police did.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
18/10/2011 11:04

I attended two semi finals at Hillsborough in 76 and 77.I remember thinking at the time that it didnt feel safe,



Paul.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
18/10/2011 11:27

As tragic as this event was I have no idea why we get so fixated with blame. Surely the goal is to learn from the event and to ensure it never happens again. This has to be the case after 22 years.

Am I right in thinking this event made way for the building of all seater stadiums? If this was the case, then we can say, not only did we learn from the event we implemented a very radical and successful solution. The people who did this need to be thanked and congratulated.



Oh I think I get it. By attaching blame, compensation can be handed out. Has compensation been given to the families already or are they still waiting?

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
18/10/2011 19:29

Mark,



It was only a recommendation that we should have all seater stadiums,not compulsory.Some of the facts as to what was in the Taylor report,have never been released.And the victims families,rightly so,in my opinion,deserve to know them.



Paul.

gusanova


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
18/10/2011 20:12

Blame is too strong a word at this stage as its been a long time. Lets see what 'fact' are brought out!



I know a couple of guys who were at the match and as for post one saying could the buses arrive earlier..........................the ground was not open until about an hour before kick off, busloads arrived to a locked ground so what do you do to while away some time..........have a pint!!



Yes the scousers had been drinking, but not as described by the SUN after as a gaggle of drunken yobs! The SUN still hardly sells in Liverpool still now!



The Emergency services were brilliant, Police hadnt a clue or FA /Sheff WED officials!

If anyone to be blamed, Police for not calling for a delayed start along with FA for not demanding it!



96 fans of both sexes and all ages lost their lives, why has it taken so long for the Inquiry, yet a Defence Minister whisks his best man around the world and theres an inquiry there!



All Liverpool Fans want is............JUSTICE!!

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
18/10/2011 20:20

msge 9





"Some of the facts as to what was in the Taylor report,have never been released.And the victims families,rightly so,in my opinion,deserve to know them".



You are right Paul



I didn't know that it wasn't compulsory to not to have all seater stadiums. Do you know which clubs didn't implement it?

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
18/10/2011 20:27

All the premier league i believe, did implement it Mark.But there have been grounds built after Hillsborough that do have standing areas,



Paul.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
18/10/2011 21:10

I am a die hard Owl and have spent many happy ( and sad) hour at Hillsborough over the years and the events of that terrible day will live on.

The fences/pens should not have been there in hindsight, however many games took place before that day and no problems occured.

I was in a local pub (2miles) from the ground that day and I can say Liverpool fans were still in the pub at 3pm and most had had a skinful.

We had a great afternoon with the scousers and good banter, speaking to mates who were in other pubs a simular story was told.

I am not suggesting that this was the cause of the tragedy ,.... but Im sure it didn't help.



A sad day for Liverpool and a sad day for Hillsborough.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
18/10/2011 21:36

The kick off should have been delayed tats,



Paul.

Gunay


Joined: 18/10/2011
Posts: 8

Message Posted:
18/10/2011 21:54

Very sensative subject for many,,,,,,,, in hindsight if we could change one thing, then like most tragic incidents it would have avoided the loss of life. Just reading the contributions so far the supporters placed at opposite ends to what they were allocated, the fences erected due to football hooligans not in place, the volume of alcohol consumed, the earlier opening of the gates. Should the match be delayed to allow for the late volume of supporters frantically tring to get in. The decisions by the authorities again could one decision be changed make that difference? Probably the answer would be yes, as with all the other points made. I think most people who are not involved and with the information just mentioned on here if it is fact could see in hindsight one decision they would change which would have not caused the loss of life. The fact is for those sadly who lost loved ones is closure, which I hope they get, as to lose a loved one without closure is a dark place to be. RIP

Tonyta


Joined: 11/06/2011
Posts: 122

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 02:56

The FA rep (Kelly I think) and the police rep interviewed after the match both blamed the supporters as did the Sun. My blood still boils as I can still see their smug faces.



The police left their allocated room in the ground thinking the fans were causing trouble and immediately started pushing people who were climbing the fence back into the pen where they were crushed to death.



Children were dying and some of the police took no notice of the cries for help.



Message 8, compensation, No, a firing squad, Yes?

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 05:30

The problem started well before Shefield the bottle neck at the Hattersley roundabout contributed to late arrival.