CYPRUS44FORUM-who is it for? when Advocates & landownders close posts

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 17:58

This is not the first time that posts relating to property problems have been closed by Landowners and Advoates - how can this be???????

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 18:10

Some evidence to back up your claims would be appreciated.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 18:18

"We thank you for your understanding."

Yeah right....

If the site owners are going to bow to pressure from such people there is no hope....

kaiserphil


Joined: 14/12/2008
Posts: 1096

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 18:19

Evidence? See the thread "INCESU - in a North Cyprus Court again today and Guess What???"

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 18:24

It wasn't even closed - the content of the thread was deleted in toto!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 18:42

Some time ago we had problems with the Advocate Mustafa Sener - Sener Law Firm and we asked for advice on the forum.

Mustafa Sener got all of them removed - not just closed - REMOVED!!!!

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 18:53

A post being deleted is a whole lot different to a post being closed, which is what you stated in your original post.



If threads were deleted then the only reason is that I can think of is that the owner of the forum has been threatened with legal action. What would I do? If I was the owner of this forum and was threatened with legal action for something other people have said on this forum then I would do the same thing.

Or did you expect the owner to defend the court action at his cost for something you posted that he has no knowledge of?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 18:55

Hildy, looks like you struck a nerve. Whoever deleted the thread didn't explain what it was that you wrote needed evidence or even give you a chance to produce it. I believe they used AJax to wipe it clean

passionflower


Joined: 20/09/2011
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 19:13

Hildy, please mail me your address is hidden.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 19:22

I got an email from a firm of solicitors in the UK of the name of Brabners Chaffe Street back in 2009 alledging that a user on a forum I ran, talkcyprus.org, had defamed their client and requesting that I removed said post and block the user's IP from posting again, under threat that if I did not I would be held liable in defamation for its publication.



I declined to comply with their request and to date have heard nothing more from them, though the poster themselves did choose to remove the post some 4 months after I recieved the threatening email.



There is a considerable difference between being threatend with such action and actualy being subject to it.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 19:24

As a fully experienced Secretary, Manager and Management trainer. I keep all records and I have emails and records to back up everything I say.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 19:25

Malsancak

If you are suggesting that I had something to do with thread deletions then you are incorrect as I have not been a moderator for a long time now and you know it. A question for you, If you were served a writ for a posting on your board that was by someone else would you be willing defend that persons postings at your own expense?

passionflower


Joined: 20/09/2011
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 19:26

never never threaten action I have learned if you feel wronged have deep pockets and wish tio take legal action the DO IT !

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 19:38

AJ, I do believe that you did not delete the thread - I was using AJaxing as a generic term. If I was served a writ then I would have failed in my duty as a Moderator. I have in the past on NCFP been asked to remove a post by a well known advocate, I asked for a reason and was given a perfectly good one and so I removed the post. In the spirit of openness, considering the vast sums expats risk losing, not only at Hasan Sungur's site but throughout Cyprus, it would be interesting for Hasan Sungur to explain his actions so that those of us who still have access to the thread would know in advance what they should delete before publishing links to the cache. I would of course not risk publishing the thread on NCFP as I know that the law here has a peculiar way of operating so that sometimes people can be successfully sued for a word but not for property fraud.

dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 19:40

Most so called legal action will be taken, by these firms etc are all huff and puff, and are just sent as a 'threat'. It takes a lot of effort and very large sums of money to take some one to court and for them to be found guilty over what could be truth from them!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 19:43

dizzycow, tell that to Geoff and Mary Day who were sued for a paintpot!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 19:47

Exactly dizzycows.



Anyway here is a link to the reply I sent the lawyers who threatend me via email back in 2009, with names redacted.



http://www.visionmatters.co.uk/cyprus/defamreply.htm



I was quite proud of it at the time.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 19:49

Hildy,



What action are the other buyers taking? Surely you should have a united front? What action is your advocate suggesting?

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 19:50

I was threatened by Mustata Sener (still have the email) and I told him to go ahead sue me, as it would give me an opportunity to put before a court the situation his actions/lack of actions result in.

It did not happen but he got all the postings about Sener Law firm deleted.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 19:54

Can anyone explain why Hasan Sungur feels he has been wronged on this forum?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 20:08

Dizzy

Message 15:



'Most so called legal action will be taken, by these firms etc are all huff and puff, and are just sent as a 'threat'. It takes a lot of effort and very large sums of money to take some one to court and for them to be found guilty over what could be truth from them!'



I am sure that the owner of this board being a Cypriot Turkish businessman is more than capable of determining who is bluffing and who is for real.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 20:10

Hector, yes Hasan Sungur can but won't, IMO

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 20:36

Oh dear...So these people can find our address and just knock on our doors ?







And to think I have been inundated with emails from 44 members !





Spider,X

Ed1957


Joined: 03/09/2011
Posts: 377

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 21:21

Close one open a hundred what is the problem here

BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 21:38

Hasan Sungur has been head of the Estate Agents Union for many years, he owns a huge amount of land in the TRNC, he's very familiar with how the system operates over here. Its beyond me how a person in his position allowed someone to build on his land without the relevant permissions, its no wonder the TRNC construction industry is on its knees. Deleting and closing threads just confirm people's suspicions instead of having open discussions. Why are they being closed if there's nothing to hide? Hasan Sungur's associates come across as threatening to Hildysmith, who has invested in TRNC in good faith and is understandably a little stressed at the moment. This site sounds like a complete disaster and I certainly wouldn't be handing over any more money until my kocan is on the table, electric & water, roads in place, after all it's not like Hasan Sungur hasn't got the money to finish the site.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 21:55

BillyB (mess 25)



Has Hasan Sungur got the money to finish the site? due to economic problems within the TRNC who knows? there is certainly no help from his Government!



He has been head of the Estate Agents Union for many years and must as a businessman know how the system operates? (does anyone know how this system operates)! (to date he has done nothing for old victims)



Old and new victims continue to be very stressed, they have all invested in good faith in the TRNC, and all have nothing to show for their investments!



Anyone in their right mind would hand over nothing to finish anything! because from where I stand nothing is ever finished :-(

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 22:58

Anybody else amazed at the sheer number of property victims in the TRNC?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 22:59

SORRY



should have posted the link.



http://your-story.org/10000-homebuyers-are-victimized-in-north-cyprus-276816/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 23:19

Bradus



The amount of victims will never amaze me! every day they increase in number :-(

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
19/10/2011 23:58

Wouldn't it be great if they started finding solutions and the numbers started to decrease - ooops another flying pig.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 00:35

the only people who have helped the Incesu buyers is:

Banan Kursat of Remax and

Marian Stokes HBPG

At onse state Hasan Sungur said he would only work through Marian Stokes, but now he uses Pembe (Browneys) and Pauline Read who have their own axe to grind and which to get closer acquainted with Hansan Sungur as he is a man of position in TRNC. Pauline Read was openly asking Marian Stewart to inttroduce her to Hasan Suingur on one posting and then on the next posting she had met him. Marian and Pauline are members of the Institute of ournalists whilst I was just a mere MIPD Member of the Instutitue of Personal Development. MITD Member of the Institute of Training and Development.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 00:37

Sorry about the typing erros - too tired!!!!!

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 02:08

Was his land or exchange land ?

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 07:00

For the final time Hildy - I have no axe to grind other than to try to sort my property problem out and throught the stop the blackmail help others. I joined the Chartered Institute of Journalists for the reason that I thought it would protect me from further arrest because, I believed this because on my last arrest they acutally told my companiion, also at the Plcie Staton for 3 hours, that she could take picutres because she was a journalist so I went straight home after the 3 hour stint at Lapta Police Station and applied to join. I did not expect to be accepted because I am NOT a professional journalist, I receive no payment whatsoever, however after looking at the writing I do do, the Institute allowed me membership.



I was introduced to Hasan Sungur by Pembe not Marion Stuart. I have met with him ontwo occasions only. He seems genuine and is helping me. He was a volunteer (not paid he tells me) when the Property Complaints Office was open. Hildy says his properties ...

Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 07:07

That was a good scheme the Property Complaints Office, seems it deflected attention for a couple of years and then just fizzled out.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 07:23

have been built so he has been paid, if this is true and HIldy is right then he could just sell them as he probably intended as his payment for the land. Are they in a saleable condition Hildy?



I know Marion Stuart, she is a lovely lady and as far I remember, all she asked was for more detail Hildy, that is what journalists do. I think she was trying to help. Yes I did ask her to introduce me to Sungur, but she is a busy lady and I rarely see her although recently I did meet her for coffee at Glora Jeans.



Pembe as browneyes only tried to broker between you and Sungur, she too is a victim but still tries to help others.



NOt everyone uses a public forum as a medium. Perhaps Sungur is one of those people. I am concerned he closed the thread but I did get the impression preveiously, he was trying to genuinely find a solution. Because you choose this route to air your grievances Hildy, as indeed I do, I can understand it is not everyone's choice.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 07:38

Hasan Sungur has never worked through me. I know some of the details, but not all of Hildy's case but I have never been a link between the two of them. I understand there was a meeting between Hildy, Hildy's daughter, browneyes and Sungur, I was not at that meeting. I am sure Hildy will confirm that.



I was case number 132 at the PCO and although I had heard of Sungur's connection there and I did go into the PCO office on severaln occasions, I never met him then. I agree earlybird, the principal was good but the then govt never financed it properly and poor Marion Stokes was working her socks off with little help with the people she took in. I do not know if even one case was resolved.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 09:13

The PCO was a front to look like constructive action was being taken but in the end the results showed its true worth. When people realised they were simply being strung along it was quick to disband. Once again what we learned from the PCO was that ineffective laws and a Government whose inaction actually sponsors property fraud, prevent any positive action from occurring.



Herein lies the problem with Hildy and Incescu. How long do you wait before you know if genuine support is on offer or if you are simply being told what you would like to hear to keep you quiet and prevent bad publicity for the developer? Do you wait that long that your property becomes unlivable, slides down the hill and is obviously a danger? Do you wait that long that when it gets to court the judge makes a song and dance about time scales and criticises your own inactivity? We have seen this happen so many times. Hasan Sangur represents this system. He is an important cog in its wheel.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 09:19

I have no idea if his offer to help is genuine or not. However what is certain is that as a result of this publicity, all eyes are on him and people will be able to judge this for themselves with the passage of time.



Either Hildy has missed some valuable and much needed support or she has, as so many others have, provided even more evidence to highlight all that is wrong in the construction industry and TRNC Law and how many of the problems are perpetrated by leading people within this industry and those in positions of power.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 10:16

Bradus, spot on! When someone who says they are helping makes moves to prevent publicity there is no doubt in my mind that no good news for the property victims will be forthcoming. Outrage is the only reaction that seems applicable and not 6+ years of waiting for something which in reality has probably never been the intention of those with power and who have a vested interest in not transferring property currently in their possession, IMHO. Many landowners are holding onto heavily mortgaged property which they can't transfer anyway and perhaps stalling prevents this becoming embarrassing public knowledge.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 12:07

Bradus, thank you for the link to the interesting article re 10,000 home buyers are victims in the TRNC.



Thank goodness for the internet and for the courage of those who use it to publicise the problems and injustices being carried out despite the threats, intimidation and real, ever present fear of being arrested.



The fact that postings have been withdrawn from this forum suggests to me at least that publicity is not welcomed which must mean it will eventually have an affect.

bazzagirl


Joined: 09/05/2010
Posts: 525

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 14:24

I had a ban for talking about rats at the sea vistas site, funny how some people take things so seriously or is it because they know ur telling the truth and your getting to them??

juliamoons



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 849

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 14:45

Hasan Sungur threads are closed



This thread has been closed as per the written request by Hasan Sungur.



Although Cyprus44 staff makes reasonable efforts to make this forum as objective and free from bias as possible, we are sometimes obligated to honour the requests by companies to close down threads.



We thank you for your understanding.

juliamoons



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 849

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 15:17

Wonder what happened to freedom of information and free speech.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 15:40

Hasan Sungur claims to be a VICTIM as his contract with Cafer states he gets 1 house for every five built. 7 houses have been started - none are finished.

His 2 villas are at the same stage as that of another buyer. Completion of his houses is easy as the have not had the poor finishing work which needs remedial work to put right.

All my tiles need removing, concrete removed, the walls sealed with a membrane then the contrete & tiles put back - upstairs, downstairs, inside and outside. All plaster to be removed up to 3ft in every room then replaced & sealed. (like a UK damp course). The metal corner edging have rusted and need to be replaced and replastered. The backs of the wardrobes, are black with mould as are the Kitchen cupboards. The Terrace has a huge hole in it because tiles were laid on 1 inch concrete and when the rains came it washed away the sub-soil & the terrace collapsed. Hasan Sungur's company were contracted to 'monitor' this in his contract with Cafer Yucelgazi

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 15:45

AND we are not even in the house and it is not even finished.

I would have thought that Sungur's houses would have been built after ours were completed, in the location indicated on the plan which forms part of my contract, as Cafer would then have the full amount of money in from the development.

However, once they put our swimming pools on the edge of the road, Cafer could not sell any more houses as no-one wanted them. On top of that all of the land had to be excavated from the in front of our houses so that his houses could be put in front of mine where my garden should have been.

juliamoons



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 849

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 15:51

We bought a Cafer Yucelgazi house as 2nd time buyer. We also have some faults with our house. We have had to waterproof and re-tile the upper terrace and have many damp problems within the house especially within the kitchen cupboards. We have had to reform the roof slap and the gulley as any water sitting there came into the bedrooms. Oh yes and big problem - not yet fixed is that the kitchen waste to the guest toilet waste which then goes to the septic tank/sespit runs backwards ie. from the guest toilet back to the kitchen. That will be a big job as it will all have to be dug up and re-done. Apart from that there is a dispute between Cafer and his partner at the time and we have no idea if we will ever get our kocans. If we do get our kocans it means we have to also pay the builders capital gains tax, vat and completion money. What life.

passionflower


Joined: 20/09/2011
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 15:57

julia do not pay coz as it stands the land owner will have to pay when the Greek Cypriots come knocking for their cash and they will . they have been on our development several times pointed out where various wells are locted on their land !

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 16:04

Is that what it said in your Contract Hildy, that your houses would be built first, if so it is wrong that they were not.



Have you seen the Contract between Sungur and and Cafer Hildy? If it says that Sungur's company should monitor anything on the site, then clearly they should have. It would be unusual but everything in this country is unusual.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 16:20

Hildy, perhaps it is time to publish your evidence. It's now or never really as who knows how long you'll be allowed to.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 16:53

Marian Stokes got me a translated copy of the contract. It doeso't say Hasan Sugnur's houses would be built after ours, but it makes sense to complete the sold houses before you spend money building houses where there is no income.

The contract DOES state that Hasan's company will 'MONITOR' the build. I pointed this out to Pembe and Hasan in the last meeting.

I asked him how he had monitored the build when there was no retaining wall or when all the other problems appeared and he said he wrote a letter (he gave me a copy) to Remax in July 2009 saying that we had to pay no more money to Cafer - WHAT A JOKE - everyone had paid the full amount except for the last handover payment - we had paid £8k extra. The only exception is one buyer who has a seperate load deal with Cafer who paid monthly. I have a survey report for my house which states what I have said about remedial work and I visited the site with the 'reputable' surveryor and we discussed what was required.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 16:59

My husband worked for a very reputable builder in the UK and he was also a Military Plant Operator and Crane Operator so well used to dealing with excavation of earth and supporting a terraine. He discussed all requirements, errors, remedial work with the surveyor.

Cafer has also used internal doors on external locations so the water has seeped into the wood and turned it to mush, so it has been kicked in and taps, bathroom fittings hae been stolen. This has also happened to another house and it is still locked - the only person who has keys to these properties is Cafer Yucelgazi (and possibly Hasan Sungur).

The site as it is now bears no relation to the site on the plan which is included in our contacts.

Hasan's houses are supposed to be over the other side of the site looking up the mountain - not in my garden looking towards the sea.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 17:05

Forgot to mention - the door in question which was kicked in was supposed to be a fully Glazed door because of the safety aspects of having young children near a swimming pool.

My contract specifically states 'fully glazed door'.

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 17:40

I have seen your contract Hildy and the person responsıble for monıtorıng progress on your property is REMAX your frıend Benan YES I have written copy in my hand as to show as evidence if required. Once again false/wrong information about Hasan Sungur !

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 17:54

Browneyes you are referring to MY contract of sale. Benan did do her job in monitoring what was happening and sending us photographs and confirming completion of stages until she was stopped by Cafer who threatened to set his dogs on her if she entered the building site. She went to the site after he had refused to allow her staff to visit the site to do their job.



The contact I am referring to is the contract between Hasan Sungur and Cafer Yucelgazi.

My contract of sale is in English I would not need Marian Stokes to Translate that...................... doh!!!!

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 18:33

Does Sungurs Contract say his company will monitor all the builds including his own? Seems an odd clause considering he is not on your Contract but I have no reason to doubt that is what it says since you say you have a copy of Sungurs Contract which has been translated for you.



It really doesn't sound like someone who is trying to hide anything if he is prepared to hand over a copy of the Contract between himself and Cafer. I feel very sorry for you Hildy that things have gone so sour between you and Sungur. I do hope you will come to a mutually satisfactory solution.



It was a simple misunderstanding (no pun) that Browneyes thought you were referring to your own Contract and probably reasonable given how odd it is that Sungurs Contract refers to your build as well as his own.. Considering she is dealing in Turkish in her working life and English here, I think she does amazingly well and undeserving of the 'doh!!!'

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 18:41

ADENDUM OF AGREEMENT dated 10th August 2007 I bring your attention to paragraph 8 and qoute:



'Stages will be checked by an INDEPENDENT architect/engineer and will be reported to REMAX Golden Estate Agency Ltd. and the payments will be done with the approval of REMAX Golden Estate Agency Ltd.



Is this correct Hildy please confirm !!!!



THIS IS THE CONTRACT SIGNED BY YOU AND ALL PARTIES .NO MENTION ABOUT Hasan Sungur

So WHY did you pay if Cafer threatened Benan (REMAX) and WHY r u still blaming Hasan Sungur !

Any contract between the LANDOWNER HASAN SUNGUR and CAFER is not tied to your contract. Hasan Sungur never sold you these houses and nor is he obliged to finish the building for you.

Are you attacking him because you believe he has money and Cafer doesnt !!!!

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 18:50

I think browneyes that Hildy is saying she has a copy of the Conrtact between Cafer and Hasan Sungur which says he will monitor all the building work going on, on the site. Seems strange since Sungur's Contract is, as you say, not tied to Hildy's Contract. and indeed to take it one step further, why would he interfere in something that he was not named in. Also and just as an observation, if Remax were monitoring the build, why would another company need to on the purchasers behalf. I can quite understand why Sungur would feel it necessary to monitor his own villas build. I am becoming very confused.

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 18:53

Hasans contract states that Hasan Sungur- LANDOWNER can give the builder ADVICE about the ongoing project anytime WHEN the builder requires, this limits HASAN and he has no rights to intervene on the project.

Other facts During the project being planned Hasan Bey was not the president of the estate agents union as you so keep bring forward and CAFER was once the President of the builder association so how can he be so unqualified or building with out necessary permission.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 19:04

Message 57 states:

'Stages will be checked by an INDEPENDENT architect/engineer and will be reported to REMAX Golden Estate Agency Ltd. and the payments will be done with the approval of REMAX Golden Estate Agency Ltd.

I confirmed that I received the reports following the above visit.

The copy of Hasan & Cafers contract was placed in my file by Sener Law Firm. When we purchased the house Sener Law Firm showed us the contract (Cafer and Hasans) and pointerd out that Hasan was monitoring the project and that he was a very honourable Man and a man of status here = WHY DO YOU THINK WE BOUGHT THE HOUSE. I found the contract when I removed my file from Sener Law Firm and had it translated. I brought it to the meeting and read it to you and Hasan.

May I also point out that I have an email from 2009 stating that Hasan was going to get me a costing for the site - I have now been told TODAY that he has now got it. Not bad that only 2 years to get a costing.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 19:04

Browneyes, wasn't Cafer Gurcafer president of the Building Contractors' Union and we're talking about Cafer Yucelgazi. Seems to be a lot misunderstood here! Shouldn't our focus be on the scammers and not the victims or am I also losing the plot?

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 19:08

Hasans contract DOES NOT state that he had to monitor ! in actual fact he was very limited in what he can control.

All planning permissions application were up to date and they had a visa number from the architech and civil engineer association for the Incesu project

And also at the time Cafer was the Senior Priesent Kyrenia builders association, at the time of this project so how was Hasan Sungur not to trust him!

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 19:21

Sorry im getting confussed myself Malsancak you are right Cafer Gurcafer was the priesent of the builders association Cafer Yucegazi was at the time the Senior priesident of Kyrenia Builders ASSOCIATION



So hildy if you was getting good reports from Remax and you was paying how did it go wrong !



And youve already told us on more than one occassion that Mustafa Sener failed you so for him to tell you that Hasan Sungur was to monitor your project is once again false imformation !

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 19:35

Hildy,

Im glad Hasan has now got a price for you, he also has a good solution in place, so speak to Benan and try to sort things out ! We all sympathize with your situation but you have no rights to bad mouth a good honest man who is trying to help can you just tell me how much Hasan Sungur has pocekted from this project !

If Hasan Sungur was dishonest want has stopped him from putting a mortgage on the land and not paying it !

I know the truth like you do but you see me as ant enemy we want to help you but i will only allow the truth to come out. Maybe thats why you dont like what I write.

Marion Stokes is a very good woman and she has also helped you alot with this, I would never tread on her toes, i have heaps of respect for her and all the hard work she does maybe seek advice from her, she knows the truth too!

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 19:56

BILLY B -

I hope ive explained the situation a little better you said earlier that why doesnt Hasan Sungur finish the houses, because the contracted builder was Cafer Yacegazi and Hasan Sungur was the land owner and trusted Cafer to build this project in return he was to get two villas which have never been completed !

Hasan Sungur was never involved with the sell of any properties

Hasan Sungur was never paid any money from the sale of the properties

Hasan Sungur has never been involved and was restricted with the building of the project

Hasan Sungur does not hold any of the keys of the properties

Hasan Sungur never signed any contracts with any of the buyers

BUT he IS trying to help solve this mess and had numerous meetings with HBPG and Hildy to find a solution, which they have !

The only other solution the court MIGHT order is that the whole lot would be sold, Hasan will get the price of the land and evryone else will get a share of the balance ! NOT a good solution !!!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 21:03

Browneyes, or anyone who knows, is the land parcelised?

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 22:21

Cafer Gurcafer was the President of the Builders Association when Aga stopped work(he was a director of Aga) seems to me that Hildy although in a different situation is in the same place!



Blackmail? All roads lead to -NOTHING in the TRNC! I don't know if Hasan Sungur will help Hildy and the other buyers at Incesu, I think they are in a dreadful place, they will have to pay an awful lot more money to get their homes habitable!



As for Remax, Unwins, or any estate agents, as said before (not by me) they are only a "shop window" and owe no-one anything, and will pay you nothing! and Advocates have no "Duty of Care" to anyone and will pay you nothing!



malsancak



parcelization is a joke? whether parcelized or not the Government will pay you nothing!



If you are in Geoff & Mary Day's position, Pauline's position or Hildy's position, or any Aga victims position no-one will pay you anything keep smiling folks! this is the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/10/2011 23:23

What I can't understand is how the stage payments continued even though there were such obvious problems on this site. If your Estate Agent was overlooking the build and you were paying the money to her Hildy, why did she hand it over to the developer so that you ended up paying in full for an unbuilt property? Does not seem like someone looking after your interests.



Why on earth would buyers send their stage payments to the Estate Agent who is really the builders employee and paying his wages? The Estate agents interests are with the seller not the buyer.Seems to me you have had a good shoulder to cry on Hildy, whilst being stitched up like a kipper by all involved in the sale, including the Estate Agent.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
21/10/2011

Bradus



Certainly in 2003/4 victims didn't realize that the Estate Agent was the builders employee! I would have certainly thought since then victims would have understood! I in my naivety believed that the President of the Contractors Association Cafer Gurcefer being a director of Aga would have overseen the build! but twas not to be! Cafer Gurcefer disappeared into infinity along with the rest of Aga's directors!



Sadly Bradus we sent our payments either to Unwins, or Talat Kursat!!! our Advocate Munir Akil had no duty of care! so we had no shoulder to cry on!



Stitched Up Like a Kipper :-(



I have worked very hard since to inform any future victims!



It seems it's been a waste of time!

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 00:19

Thank You Bradus !!



I cant understand why Hildy is so friendly with her estate agent !She took her commission and left her in a mess. If the house was not satisfactory to your requirements why did you keep paying. If REMAX did their progress reports correctly and regular maybe you wouldnt have paid.

The estate agent is not entitled to their commision until the sales transaction is complete according to the estate agent laws of 2007 so for that reason Hildy you have the rights to demand your commission money back. Or maybe she is such a nice lady she might just give you your commission back !

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 00:28

TRNC Victim -

basically the property market at the moment is an absolute mess ! The laws are not protecting the buyers but are encourging the scum of builders to get away with it ! How many builders have been prosecuted and many are there in jail NONE ! WHO ARE THE VICTIMS ..... US ..... because of our love and trust in the TRNC .... that was our crime !

The courts are not recognising the true rightful owners of the land ! If you paid for your property then you should be the rightful owner !

Why has Cafer Yucegazi still got Hildys keys ... if i paid all that money id take the key right off him !

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 01:50

Was this exchange land ?

or his own?

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 07:25

BROWNEYES

ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR ???????



I have emails from Sener Law firm stating that meetings and discussions were taking place with Hasan Sungur and Cafer and that they were both in meetings regarding Incesu. They also state what was agreed.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 07:27

- The land is not parcelised

- There is no build permit

- There is no retaining wall on the mountainside so they are going to fall down

The only safe houses on that site are Hasan Sungur's houses.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 07:30

Malsancak

Cafer Yucelgazi was black listed in the newspapers - something to do with cheques

CaSa - was also listed in the Name and Shame on the HBPG and this is where I found out that he was an unregistered builder. So I challenged Mustafa Sener regading this and he confimed that Cafer was an unregistered builder - but that it did not matter and the rest is most interesting.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 07:36

Hildy, from what you say it would appear that Sungur's promise to transfer title deeds CANNOT happen as it is a totally illegal build he has allowed on his land and by doing so has allowed ex-pats to be scammed of their hard earned cash. It appears that he now owns the properties built with ex-pat savings without lifting a finger to do any work. I am stunned that you are being attacked for pointing this out. Can BrownEyes or Misunderstood tell me if my analysis of the situation is wrong and can we move away from creating problems for victims and instead create problems for those who have put them in this outrageous situation?

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 07:36

This is part of the document Cafer Yucelgazi gave me in a meeting with Hasan Sungur, Marian Stokes and Benan Kursat (Remax)

[Handwritten]

ADDITIONAL WORKS FOR VILLA NO. 10 *

Pool Radial* Mould 48m² x 16TL = £333.-

“ “ Concrete 135m² x 0.40 = 54m³ concrete x 105TL = £2,465.-

“ “ Iron 4 tons x $850 = £2,217.-

“ “ Iron labour x 4 at 400TL = £695.-



Pool Columns Mould labour at 12 x 4.5m² 54m² x 16TL = £375.-

(LOWER) “ “ at 12 x 4.5 54m² x 16TL = £375.-

“ “ Concrete at 6m³ x 105 TL = £273.-

“ “ Iron at 1 Ton x $850 = £554.-

“ “ “ labour at 1 x 400 TL = £173.-

_______ £7,460 - (A)

It would appear that when you buy a house with a swimming pool you do not get the cement, iron, labour etc with it. there is more...........................

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 07:41

Interior section of the house:

In the living room and upstairs bedroom

PVC windows extended to below Difference £1,000.-

Natural marble used for all inside and outside terraces of the house.

Difference at 24TL x 300m² = £3,130.-

Excavations+corrections+fills relating to the place where the house will stand = £3,000.-

Mould work for front load-bearing radial at 46m² x 16 TL = £320.-

Concrete for “ “ “ at 16m³ x 105TL = £730.-

Iron for “ “ “ 2.5 TON x $850 = £1,386.-

Labour for “ “ “ iron at 2.5 x 400 TL = £434.-

Labour for “ “ wall mould at 168m² x 16 TL = £1,168.-

Concrete for “ “ “ at 20m³ x 105 TL = £91

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 07:51

[Handwritten]

House no. 10

Rear Retaining Wall: Labour for mountain stone 100m² at 25TL = £869.-

5 Lorry-loads of stone 5 x at 450 TL = £978.-

Materials 100 bags of cement + 3 Lorry-loads of Sand = £1,000.-

bullldozer labour = £200.-

________

£3,047. - (C)

Front load-bearing wall side stairs £ 992

£4,039



Grand Total £ 7,460. - (A)

£13,656. - (B)

£ 4,039. - (C)

___________



£25,155.-

£18,866.-

___________

£44,021. - *

=========

This is a tranlation by ITV Homes from Hell programme. All buyers have the same. This was given to me in Hasan's office at a meeting on 9.5.2011 with Marian, Benan Cafer and Hasan. ON TOP OF THIS he also wants 10% interest TOTAL: £67

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 08:27

Malsancack, I am not an expert but surely, the land can be transferred in shares to the purchasers even if the

parcelisation has not taken place? That as I see it would be the logical first step. Once the urchasers own the land, they then would need to address the problems of the villas and parcelisation. At least they would have something for their money.



Of course to transfer the land, would indeed need the co operation of the land owner and since he has no Contract with the purchasers we are back to plan a. pay him £20,0000 plus taxes but only part with it at the Tapu during the transfer porcedure.



Clearly, if as is indicated, there is a better plan on offer, that too should be considered.



However, due to the amount of publicity this has now received, will Cafer allow the second plan to go unchallenged. I do not see how stop the first but he could most certainly slow it down by legal action.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 09:04

Note:

All extras requested and put into the house by arrangement were included in the Contract of Sale and Addendum of Agreement which states: "Constructor will not ask for any other payments during the construction upon completion of concrete structure" (so why the above 'extras'.)

Villa + Furniture & White goods (comparable with others 15 houses viewed) sold at: £87.000k

Extras: above windows, concrete etc stated in Contract & Addendum £5,250k

Paid to date in staged payments: £76,125k

Extra payment made for goodwill completion on 29.9.09 £8,000k

Other payments towards an Electric Transformer costing approx £49k £4.500k

Legal fees: Sener Law Firm £1,626k

TOTAL PAID: £90,2512k

Now: Hasan wants £20k and Cafer wants £20k

Do I pay

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 09:15

So

I have paid:

£90,251

Now Hasan wants

£20k + taxes

Cafer wants

£20k + taxes

Cafer is sueing me (extras: as above)

£67,269

This totals: £197,520 - not bad for a house costing £87,000

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 09:22

misunderstood, without any sort of division in place, even between Sungur's two villas and the ex-pats, there appears to have been no move to transfer ownership yet and I have a hunch that, legally, this should have been undertaken before the build started. At least that's what is says on the HBPG site. I'm waiting for my internet to be fixed, transceiver probably moved slightly out of alignment, so have a very slow connection and can't easily check.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 09:34

Browneyes: At the August meeting, you attended, Hasan Sungur asked Benan if she would give up her commission to sort this and she agreed - so why are you once again spouting inaccurate information.

Benan has been a total support for 5 years. I taught, assessed and IV'd NVQ's in Customer Service for many years since their inception so I am in a good position to judge the service given.

- The service I have received from Remax has been 'SECOND TO NONE'

She has supported the buyers throughout.

The person supposed to be monitoring the build and getting the payments was Sener Law Firm, I received one set of photos which were not of our villa.

The Addendum Agreement 2007 stated that Benan would take over this role, but Cafer would not allow her to visit the site - as said he threatened her with his dogs. I contacted Sener Law firm regarding her difficulties in accessing the site. He complained to my daughter & me about Benan coming on site and asked both of us

'You do not trust me?

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 09:38

It is Exchange land

Ayhan Sener assured me (frequently) and wrote on the internet that it was

'absolutely safe'

So although Hasan Sungur is the owner it is Exchange land we are now considering what the implicaions of this are - Maybe that is why he wants £20k from each of the 7 buyers.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 09:40

Message 20 Hector

Good Question Hector, but it didn't get an answer!!!!!!

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 09:46

Malsancak,

Part of the new deal that we have put together as a solutıon for Hıldy wıth out gıvıng too much ınformatıon was that wıth her payıng her fınal ınstalment ONLY. Hasan Sungur has taken on board to fınısh ALL the houses then make an applıcatıon for Irtifa Koçans (ındıvıdual deeds for each unfınıshed property staıng whıch number property belongs to who) at NO addıtıonal cost once hıs houses are also complete hıs ıs happy to gıve the tıtle deeds to each person WITHOUT an addıtıonal prıce. This was all dıscussed ın the meetıng and evrythıng was faır and hıldy WILL GET HER HOUSE AND DEEDS! Everyone was happy wıth the fınal plan and Hıldy shook hands and cuddled and kıss Hasan Bey after the meetıng. I saıd to her if you are so good frıends wıth Hasan to h&

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 09:47

Misunderstood:

you state:

Pembe as browneyes only tried to broker between you and Sungur, she too is a victim but still tries to help others.

Pember has done nothing for me.

She attended one meeting in August as Hasan Sungur's friend/representative/legal advisor (call her what you like). We did not come an agreement and my daughter informed all the buyers. I started to see light at the end of the tunnel. Then...... I went to court last week - No Hasan, No Cafer/Advocate just Hasan's Advocate getting them on the mobile and passing it to my Advocate. Then telling me that he was going to get my house Demolished. NOTHING that was agreed with in the meeting with Pembe was mentioned or included when I was at the court - just the same old demand for £20k

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 09:48

or maybe Hildy he wants £20,000 because he knows he is never going to get the two villas completed, and has decided he at least wants something for his land. Alternatively, he could just sue Cafer for Breach of Contract, which he will win no doubt win and just take back his land. He might even be awarded compensation and receive a worthless court order too. For sure Cafe has nothing that anyone couuld get at, whch is a shame because I would love to see you all get your money back.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 09:54

In 2009 we received information that Cafer was Broke, Skint, Bankrupt etc

Then we heard that Hasan Sungur was negotiating to sell the land to Cafer (I have the emails regarding this). That would give Cafer the opportunity to mortgage the land - that is why I put it into the courts.

This was at the same time as the Bellapais Auction as I quoted the problems in my emails to Dengiz Kursat (Hasan's Sungur's Vice-President of the Estate Agents Union) who is also a partner in Remax.

Hasan did not want Benan in the meeting but he did want Dengiz (his VICE PRESIDENT) at the meeting and I refused to allow that.

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 10:02

Any way she promısed not to wrıte agaın. The only one person who has come up wıth a proper solutıon ıs Hasan. The problem ıs the more she bad mouths him, what if he walks away from thıs mess ! Then what has she got or wıll have NOTHING !

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 10:03

Browneyes: you state:

you have no rights to bad mouth a good honest man who is trying to help can you just tell me how much Hasan Sungur has pocekted from this project !

I have never 'bad mouthed' Hasan Sungur. I have simply stated recorded facts.

Where have I called him names, made derogatory statements regading him or as you say 'bad mouthed' him?

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 10:06

Pembe has done a lot Hildy, she has so far achieved nothing is what you really mean. She is trying to broker a deal, she is a friend of Hasan Sungur and receives n payment whatsoever for what she is trying to do, so yes maybe there is no end result yet, but please do not say she has done nothing, I know as her friend just how much effort she has put into this. I was in court with her and her mUm when they were told there is no solution for Tutuska and the whole property containing her mum's home will have to be sold so all they have to look forward to is a second auction. Yet she still gives freely of her time to try to help you and Sungur come to an agreement.



Hector q 20. I do not know if Hasan Sungur feels he has been wronged on here, I have not seen him recently, however perhaps he does not like this type of medium and asked for it to be closed for that reason. It is not everyones way of doing things. He has seen his name on here, that's for sure judging his reaction.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 10:12

Browneyes: Message 87 states:

Part of the new deal that we have put together as a solutıon for Hıldy wıth out gıvıng too much ınformatıon was that wıth her payıng her fınal ınstalment ONLY. Hasan Sungur has taken on board to fınısh ALL the houses then make an applıcatıon for Irtifa Koçans (ındıvıdual deeds for each unfınıshed property staıng whıch number property belongs to who) at NO addıtıonal cost once hıs houses are also complete hıs ıs happy to gıve the tıtle deeds to each person WITHOUT an addıtıonal prıce. This was all dıscussed ın the meetıng and evrythıng was faır and hıldy WILL GET HER HOUSE AND DEEDS! Everyone was happy wıth the fınal plan and Hıldy shook hands and cuddled and kıss Hasan Bey after the meetıng. I saıd to her if you are so good frıends w&

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 10:17

This IS CORRECT.

However, at the court last week NONE of this was stated or mentioned.

It is back to the same old 'give me £20k for the land'

There is no build permit

There is not infrastructure (I understand now that you ae not supposed to build without infrastructure)

There is no Water

there is no electric (I have paid £4500 towards a transformer for this)

there are no Drains

Browneyes was supposed to send me an email outlining all that had been agreed in the meeting so that I could inform my advocate - I HAVE STILL NOT RECEIVED IT.

The only record in now on this posting and on a previous posting.

Hasan's Advocate told me last week at the court that he would get my house demolished!!!!!!!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 10:22

Perhaps we should be looking at this the other ways round. Instead of Hasan Sungur, who holds the title deeds, FIRST being given money and then the victims receiving title deeds, perhaps he could show the way forward by giving the victims their title deeds and then they pay him? It's a matter of trust which should also work the other way.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 10:22

Browneyes

You are right I agreed on a previous posting not to write any more. However, when I got to the court last week and heard that all of the points agreed in the meeting you attended had been totally ignored and this time between Cafer and Hasan I was to pay another £40k

Had the agreement which we made at that meeting been put forward to the courts, I and the other buyes would have been delighted. But they did not - they were ignored.

Another point which amazed me as stated in a previous point Cafer wanted to buy the land and was negotiating with Hasan Sungur - If be was bankrupt, Broke, Skint

HOW COULD HE PAY FOR THE LAND ?????????

He still has an outstanding mortgage on the house I lived in in Karsiyaka.

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 10:38

Hildy ,

If you see me as I done nothıng so be ıt ! BUT what ever was saıd at that meetıng stıll stands and I will make sure that the saıd plan WILL go ınto actıon and I WILL gıve you that in writing. If Hasan was not at court that day maybe thats why there was no mentıon of ıt. I was noyour only wıtness there Benan was there and she speaks to Hasan every day so was your daughter. Thıs plan was agreed wıth evryone including HASAN AND HİS SON, maybe ıt wont happen over nıght but to the information you gave me yesturday day Hasan now has some figures and we can now go forward .

Yes Hasan is my friend I im desparately trying to keep things together on this case as there is a good enough solutıon here so lets stıck to ıt . IM SURE THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT TOO !

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 10:38

I see Hildy, I wish that had been clear at the outset. It seems that Misunderstood and BrownEyes were writing what they did because they believe you had rejected an early agreement when in fact last week, according to you, ALL the buyers, including you, discovered that this agreement had been changed and a new one substituted. I too would have been horrified if paying Cafer extra was part of this new agreement. I've walked (carefully) past those properties many times and wouldn't want Cafer returning even if he paid ME. I'm also disturbed by talks of a bankrupt builder being given access to the title deeds of the site. Perhaps a certain bank would then be willing to give Cafer a £140k loan for the land, minus Sungur's property of course. Co-incidentally, the amount Sungur wants from the victims. Oh what a tangled web they weave.

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 10:48

Malsancak,

Our agreed plan is still in place and I assure will be carried out! In this agreement HASAN is not asking for any money and once the actıon plan goes ınto actıon and hasan has hıs 2 houses completed along wıth all the other propertıes also, he wıll be happy to hand over the tıtle deeds at no charge to the purchasers. This was agreed !

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 10:56

BrownEyes, that's confusing - sure, Hasan is not asking for money, instead he's asking for money to be PAID by the victims to complete his house. I assume the victims give the allegedly bankrupt Cafer the money to spend on Hasan's house. Am I understanding this right? This is why it is so important from a free exchange to take place and to not allow Hasan Sunger to delete WHOLE threads. Future property purchasers need to see that the TRNC is a just place which allows Freedom of Speech but, of course, not unfounded accusations.

Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 10:58

Browneyes



So that everyone is clear about the current proposal, would you please clarify?



Can you also confirm that if the buyers agree to the plan, the status of the title deeds i.e. it is one shared deed and not several that first must be amalgamated.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 11:41

My understanding was that all outstanidng money owed on the villas wll be collected and put in a ring fenced account. That money will be drawn upon in stages when a different builder completes all the properties, this

includes the two for Mr Sungur. When the site is complete title will be given to each purchaser, with each purchaser paying their normal transfer expenses. NOw whether it will be on a shared Kocan or parcelised I cannot tell from what has been written. Personally, I would take it even if on a shared Kocan and worry about parcelisation after. I know this can be done because a KUlaksiz site did just that (not K5).



I was also under the impression that the oustanding payments would be sufficient to complete the build, is that correct browneyes Have I missed anything within my understanding of the plan.



Now if Hildy and Sungur agree on this, the rest of the purchasers have to also. We all know how difficult getting two people to agree is.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 11:54

Perhaps Hasan Sungur's title deeds could at the same time be transferred to the owner of the "ring-fenced" bank account. Everything should work both ways, I think it is idiotic to put yourself into a situation where, having been scammed once, you open yourself to being scammed yet again. I am sure Sungur will be only too pleased to show faith by matching any move by victims to pay over money beyond their contract with his transferring the title deeds of the victims' property into the name of the person trusted to hold the victims' money. In that way BOTH parties would be showing faith in each other. Or is this just a one-way deal as a fear it is?

Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 12:20

Malsancak



I can't see the buyers wanting to pay 2 lots of transfer fees & stopaj tax - not a good idea!

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 12:41

I AM SORRY I CAN NOT FULLY EXPLAIN THE DEAL IN PUBLIC LIKE I SAID TO HILDY AND SHE KNOWS WE ARE GIVING TOO MUCH INFO IN PUBLIC AND SHE CAN MESS UP THE WHOLE PLAN FOR EVERYONE.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 13:12

Molly, I can't see buyers wanting to lose everything either.

BrownEyes, perhaps I'm misunderstanding where Cafer comes in as the bad guy who can scupper the deal if he gets to know about it. I'm assuming this is the reason the plan is being kept secret. I'm left with the feeling that this secret would be ridiculed if it became public rather than lead to Cafer going ballistic. Hildy gives the appearance of being a whistle-blower, in my opinion, rather than an idiot but I'll never know because she's being criticised on the basis of something we're not being told. I'm assuming the plan was revealed in court BrownEyes, am I right, and this is the one Hildy is rejecting?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 14:16

Why would anyone in their right mind want to hand over money when they have already been scammed by these very people? The build quality has been disgusting and you would certainly not want this builder anywhere near the site.



The only solution is to get the land deeds registered in the buyers names and then organise stage payments for completion with a reputable builder. You pay after the completion of each stage or even on a daily basis, project managing this yourself.



To put more money into the pot appears ridiculous. What would happen if the work was done only to discover memorandums on these properties? A very possible scenario given that Cafer still legally owns the property? I can also not fathom out why Hasan Sangur in his position in the building industry would agree a contract and allow houses to be build when there was no planning position or infrastructure to the site. As two of the houses being built were to be his, surely he would have checked all this?

Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 15:00

Bradus



I agree totally.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 16:08

Can anyone confirm that Sungur did allow two properties to be built for him without planning permission, infrastructure and planning permission? According to HBPG ( http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/property_laws_basic.html):

The construction company must be certified by Inşaat Encumenliği and also be registered with the Contractors Construction Union.

A full building permit must be issued for the property before building commences

Full infrastructure (road, electric, water, road) must be in place before work commences on the properties.

For the President of The Estate Agents' Union to have allowed this is outrageous, if it is true.

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 16:08

Malsancak ,

It not my duty any further to dİsclose İnformatıon of a good plan, Hıldy knows what İm talking about.

The best advice I can give her is to take a totally independent person that both sides trust İe Marion Stokes from the HBPG and discuss the plan further with Hasan Bey as he is still in the position to go ahead and sovle this problem.

Instead of shouting out her business here and risk damaging an ongoıng court case. I AM NOT protecting Hasan Sungur I am Procecting the information of the meeting and there are other buyers involved.



I wish my property problem was so easy ! We have no solution and are facing an eviciton after paying in full and not receiving our deeds.



PLEASE CONTACT MARION STOKES HBPG ask her kindly to attend your meeting with Hasan Sungur and solve your problem the civilized way.



Hasan is happy to give you an appointment just ask !!!!!!!!

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 16:20

Message 29

Bradus



''The amount of victims will never amaze me! every day they increase in number :-( ''





Shouldnt really .Look at the number of fools who post on here ,yes still asking!!!!, if its safe to buy and looking for advice, Then when the advice doesnt suit their dreams ,and they are not told everything is great,get the hump and go on about how negative people are.



I have got no time for them now ,and should be ignored. Think some are not genuine anyway and are just from people in the property trade ,trying to get a message over.





anyone who bought after ,say 2008,

Finds out

it was true that you cant get Turkish Title for your offplan .

if there is a settlement ,you and you alone will pay the greek compensation or get evicted,

you havent got your Kocan and dont own the house unless you pay what extras the builder wants.

your land doesnt belong to you because of remortgage.

Find out 'same as Eng law' is rubbish.



Dont whine later.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 16:25

BrownEyes, Hildy hasn't even had the luxury of living in the property she's paid for and, from what I can remember of all the plans coming from HBPG, they involving paying money without a whisper of a chance of obtaining title deeds. It seems that these plans consist of draining every piece of gold the victim has without any chance of a cast iron guarantee they'll receive title deeds. In the end the builder/land owner keeps the property and the victims move back to the UK abandoning all hope and their properties are sold over again. It's dangling carrots all the way. What a money spinner! That's the way people become millionaires or end up in prison, in my opinion.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 17:52

Message 110

Believe it - IT IS TRUE!!!!!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 17:56

Message 111

Hasan has stated that he does not wish to have any moe contact with me. An email has been sent via Benan to all the buyers and my daughter requesting that another spokesperson be arranged to attend meetings.

I am the only one living here!!!!!!

Buyers living in the Uk have a totally different perspective on the situations here.

I have suggested a buyer to do this role:

He is a Policeman with many years in the Fraud Squad and other high profile positions

I think Hasan may wish he had remained with me.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 18:10

Hasan Sungur was not in court and neither was Cafer Yucelgazi.

However, Hasan spoke at length with his Advocate and my Advocate and the terms stated by both were not as agreed in the meeting or stated by Browneys above.

It was a simple statement to pay him £20k

and Then to TOP THAT t!!!!!!!!!!!

Cafer wants £20k too - that was a total shock.

I sold my house in the UK for less that the cost of this house.

I now rent a fully furnished property here and have for 2 years now

I live on my pensions only

I have no home to go to either here or in the UK.

The house was sold fully furnished with white goods (we paid extra for silver). Now I have been going to the auctions and picking up bits and pieces to use - if I ever got my house.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 19:09

That is bad news Hildy, do you anyone here you could nomnate, if not I think your police person you suggest is a first class idea and hopefully he will be here to act for you all.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 20:51

It does not make any difference to me as I told my Advocates at the Court that I was not going to contact him or speak personnaly to him again as I felt totally let down following all the false promises in that meeting. Maybe that is why I never received the notes/written points from Browneyes.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 22:13

As he had no intention of going ahead with what he agreed.

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
21/10/2011 23:11

HILDY

DO YOU NOT READ THE POSTS OR DOES IT NOT SUIT YOU TO READ WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY TO YOU !



READ MY MSJ 111 !

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 00:15

Browneyes: How can you make statements when your only involvement has been in the last meeting. i.e.

You state:

Hasan Sungur has never been involved and was restricted with the building of the project

On 19 June 2009 I Received correspondence from Remax stating:

"I would like to summarize what we have spoken with Hasan Sungur today in order to start to do calculations for the project.

1 He requested a list of clietns with amount of the last payment they need to pay to Cafer

2 He needs to find out how much is needed to complete the project (he will do it with his own archtects)

3 He needs to find out how much is needed to do the infrastructure (he will find this out himself)

4 Then, he will see the difference between monies to be paid to Cafer and monies Cafer needs to pay to complete the project.

5 I will email you all the diffence and their suggestion for this issue.

WE ARE STILL WAITING FOR THIS - WE SENT ALL THE INFORMATION AND NOTHING HAPPENED.

Now he wants it all a

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 00:29

He never provided the information since June 2009, he has now said that he has it THIS WEEK. Those figures will be based on 2011 prices.

He now wants us all to provide the informtion AGAIN.

On 7th July 2009 I received another correspondence from Dengiz Kursat of Remax (Hasan Sungurs Vice President at the Estate Agents Union) after I requested information, regarding the above stating:

"Mr Sungur has informed us earlier that he is still in the process.

Re Item one we need the full list not a rough estimate."

On 10 July 2009 another correspondence from Dengiz stating:

"Mr Sungur has informed me that Cafer is in the process of acquiring a new partner. If Cafer succeeds he communicated intent to Mr Sungur that he will offer a price to purchase the land from Mr Sungur and complete the properties."

He then states:

"At this point I do appreciate for you to send me the detailed payables list so that I can pass it on to Mr Sungur"

We had been informed prior to thist that Cafer was ban

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 00:42

.... Cafer was Bankrupt (don't know why the ends of my postings are being omitted.)



On 13 July 2009 I wrote to Dengiz after viewing the HBPG website and I sent copies of the laws/requirements re the following (briefly summarized)

1 - Permission to purchase,

2- Company (Aspire Trading Ltd/Cafer Yucelgazi) must be certified and registered with Contractors - Construction Union

3- Full building permit required BEFORE building commences

4- Full infrastructure must be in place

5- Estate Agency Requirements

6- Stamp Duty

7- Contract Registration with Land Reg

I wrote "It would appear that the law has been broken, therfore I would find it surprising if Hasan Sungur agreed to sell the land to Cafer and jeopardize our properties and rights.

on 14/7/2009 he confirmed this stating:

"Sungur and Cafer are indeed negotiating"

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 00:45

13/7/2009

Another email from Sener Law Firm stated:

"All we can advise you is that if the land does get transferred from Hasans name then you will encounter further difficulties other than what are already evident.

WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO GO ON???????

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 08:20

The end of your message comes Hildy when you have used up the 1000 letters per post.



mal message 96 - why couldn't this happen at the Tapu, sign transfer, hand over cheque.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 08:49

Any answer on the exchange land question?

BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 08:57

When the Estate Agents Law came into effect Hasan Sungur did nothing to enforce it. He still allowed Estate Agents to operate despite them not being registered. I saw him being interviewed on a TV show a year - 2 years ago saying it is perfectly safe to buy in Northern Cyprus! It says above that this site was on Homes from Hell! He's done nothing to improve the property problems here. Yes he comes across as a very nice helpful guy when you meet him. Proceed with extreme caution.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 09:04

Up to now I have been restricted, as I was speaking on behalf of the group to some degree. However, this week Hasan Sungur has removed me from this role as he has requested another spokesperson to deal with him and the Incesu Project.

This has therefore released me so I am now acting on my own behalf only.

on 26th May 2010 the Cyprus Today featured this project on its front page with the heading:

"£100,000 dream is 'turning to dust'.

it also states: "Landowner Hasan Sungur also Chairman of the Union of Estate Agents, is also unhappy with Mr Yucelgazi's work. He was promised five homes out of 20 on the site, but these have not been built either" - Hasan's Houses are at the same stage as the buyer of number 8 - One of the Brits who bought much later than the rest.

I was interviewed by Cyprus Today in 2011 when ITV were doing Homes from Hell, regarding this matter, so was Hasan Sungur - BUT NOTHING EVERY APPEARED

Spoke to the Cyprus Start - NOTHING APPEARED

mmmmm....mmmmmmm...m

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 09:16

CYPRUS TODAY then go on to say:

My Yucelgazi told cyprus today: "Ninety-five percent of the villas are completed. I have built 150 villas up to now. I invested £1 million and lost a lot of money because some villas were sold for £87,000, despite being valued at £130,000"

This is utter rubbish. Cafer told me in 2009 that he felt the houses were work £125k. I have a copy of an internet advert which asks for £124,950. He then told us that we should be paying him this amount - not the contracted amount.

My house is the most advanced on the project - However, the pool is not completed, inside is not completed there are no electrics, water, drains (my surveryor stated that the outlets did not lead anywhere).

My Surveyor states: - Jobs to complete house (REMEDIAL WORK as stated above) £13,000k GBP

- To build structural reinforced concrete walls to fron and back side of the house £12,000k GBP

- To finalise the swimming pool works £6000k GBP

that is an Extra £31k GBP 'NEEDED'

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 09:22

Still no answer?

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 10:51

I think you will find philbailey that hidden amongst all thes answers is your answer, I believe Hildy said it was exchange land.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 12:15

Yes I did see message 85.

on 17th October 2006 Ayhan Sener (acting as an Advocate) assured us that it was 'absolutely safe'

The document she gave us on that date states

IN101 Notes as at 17.10.06 TITLE DEEDS: Esdege/Exchange.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 12:29

I did some research on this and I found a letter on the internet on:

http://www.propertycyprussales.com

stating it was a brief letter sent to one of their clients.

The letter was from Ayhan Sener, Sener Law Firm and this is an extract of one of the paragraphs:



"As I can see from Cameron�s reply to you the property is of exchange title which is a very safe and secure title to purchase."



This is what she told us, it is 'very safe and secure title to purchase' when she was ACTING as our Advocate.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 12:50

132 posts attempting to discover what happened to buyers in Incesu. People asking, how could an advocate allow buyers to even start the conveyancing process with an unregistered builder and with no planning permission? With no infrastructure?



How could Sangur in his position partake in an agreement knowing that the very laws he promoted were being broken? How can the courts even suggest that the victims should pay even more money to complete their properties and that the work be completed by the very people responsible for them being in this mess in the first place?How can stage payments have been made without any confirmation that the work was being completed and to the desired standard?



Lots of unanswered questions. Yet the only certainty is that Hildy and the rest of the buyers are left in that oh so familiar place, asking if it is worth chasing this through the courts and should they throw even more money at this project? If they do, will they ever see justice?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 13:06

Even if they are lucky enough to have their case heard by an honest law abiding judge will there be any guarantee of compensation? If other cases are anything to go by, then the answer will sadly be no. Even judges appear unable to force court judgments.



Hildy's case demonstrates why people should not buy in the TRNC. People doing so continue to feed the corruption. I note the latest scam is in relation to valuing property for tax purposes with people buying apartments at £40.000 but the Land Registry then valuing them at £70-£100.000. If the State can act in this way, what message does it give to the rogue builders?



You can only describe the actions of those in power, who actually have the ability to change this system but continue to ignore it, as shameful. You are an embarrassment TRNC and there is no just too much evidence to dispute this.



I fear you will only get closure Hildy through the ECHR as you will not find any Human rights in the TRNC.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 13:29

I'm sure those who bought for 40k would willingly sell to the Land Registry for something approaching their daft estimates!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 14:41

Bradus

I blame SENER LAW FIRM for the situation we found ourselves.

I have many emails from him assuring me that everying was being done correctly - it was not until Cafer went broke in 2009 that I found out the truth. I demanded answers and would not give up but I could not get any answers. One one occasions I wrote 6 specific questions and asked Mustafa Sener to answer them and I got a fuddled answer to 1/2 a questions.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 14:43

Groucho

No one bought for £40k

All buyers bought from £87k upwards.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 14:55

One of the buyers contacted Allessina Critchlow of Sener Law Firm on 22 Sept 2009 (AFTER CAFER HAD DECLARED HISELF BANKRUPT) He asked many question. I was not longer with Sener Law Firm at this date. They had asked for a further £1500 for additional services. Only 3 purchasers remained with Sener Law Firm at this time.

"5 Does the quoted fee of £1500 include the cost of the architect/project manager and is it calculated on the basis of only 3 purchasers contributing. Would it reduce incrementally if more than 3 purchasers joined the scheme."

REPLY: The £1500 is inclusive of the architect and Sener Law Firm monitoring the build and payment process. Also this includes the legal process to re-draft, sign and register the new contract of sale on the condition that Hasan Sungur will sign the new contract, which we should establish by the beginning of the next week.

He wanted to do away with the contact 3 years after we bought the houses and loose all the conditions within it.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 15:12

So, can I summarise to see if I've got it right? Hasan Sungur (HS) gets given land by the TRNC which is really owned by (presumably) a Greek Cypriot. HS is President of the Estate Agents Union and therefore presumably has his own estate agent business and also (licensed?) construction company. A man who is an expert on the property market, surely.

HS then agrees with Cafer Yucelgazi (CY), who is not a licensed builder, to build houses on the land HS has been given. In return HS gets some of the houses. There is no planning permission to build these houses nor any permission for water, sewage or electricity.

CY then sells these houses to buyers who believe that their advocates (such as Mustafer Sener of Sener Law) are acting in their clients interest and ensuring such things as planning permission, licensed builders etc. CY starts to build the houses getting staged payments. These payments are still asked for despite the build not going according to plan.

CY goes broke.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 15:12

Allessina Critchlow then laters response to another question on 22 SEPTEMBER 2009



Q 15 "Why is it necessary to draw up new contracts. Surely if ours have already been registered" (NOTE THEY STILL THINK THEIR CONTRACT HAS BEEN REGISTERED) "it would make more sense to make the new payment schedule an addendum to the current contracts. Further, if there is difficulty getting Hasan Sungur to sign new contacts wouldn't it make sense to keep the existing ones into which , you advise us, he is already tied? If new contracts were drawn up, would these need to be registered and the necessary stamp duty and registration fee paid again"

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 15:20

REPLY from Allessina Critchlow of Sener Law Firm:

16 "We wouldn't be able to protect your interests in the same way if we did an addendum, as this cannot be registered" (BEAR IN MIND THAT THEY NEVER REGISTERED THE FIRST CONTACT WHEN THE HOUSE WAS SOLD.) "If we did a new contract of sale, tried to get Hasan Sungur to sign and register this contract we would have a much better case if you should be in the same position that you are in now rather than doing an addendum. Hasan Sungur did not sign the original contract himself, WE TIED HIM WITH A SEPARATE AGREEMENT WHICH HE SIGNED WITH CAFER.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 15:21

Message 140

Hector - you got it in one.

That is the situation.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 15:29

Allessina Critchlow of Sener Law Firm continued:

17 "We registered your contract of sale with the Land Registry office on 18.3.08." (THEY DID NOT AND COULD NOT) "however, because Hasan Sungur didn't sign himself the land registry office informed us that these contracts would not protect the client in the event that the land could be re-sold, however, due to the agreement which Hasan had with Cafer which we presented to the land registry office at the same time they agreed to take note of the signed contract and to inform us in the event that Hasan Sungur changed ownership of the land, we have also been monitoring the status of the land at the same time. Hence this is the reason we are looking to get Hasan to sign the new contact. HASAN IS NOW MORE CONSCIOUS OF THE FACT THE HE NEEDS TO SIGN THE CONTACT AS WELL"

I love that last bit - considering that Hasan Sungur was the architect of the law which came into force on 1.1.2008 which states that Landowners MUST sign the contracts !!!!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 15:31

Q "32: Has there been any response yet from Hasan SUNGUR?

Answer "33 We hae just had four days of Bayram in which the office was closed but we will speak with him this week.

Browneyes

You keep telling me Hasan was not involved.........

As the Irish Comedian used to say (can't remember his name)

'and there more....................'

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 15:33

Hector you forget to add that Hasan Sungur now wants £20k from each buyer for the land.

Thats a nice £140,000.00 pocket money for the said piece of 'given land'

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 15:45

Is the problem because the land does not belong to him

or just corruption ?

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 15:51

On one occasion I visited Mustafa Sener and he stated that he would get Cafer in for a meeting and let me know the next day so that I could attend. Every day for a week I waited until the day before we flew home I received a phone call from Allessina stating that Cafer was going into their offices the next morning and I could have the meeting with him if I paid £500 in cash. As we were going home the next day I was unable to attend the meeting - but I would not have paid to do it anyway.

on 22 June 2009 Mustafa Sener wote to me and stated:

"One again I would like to for the final time confirm to you that as your Law Firm we have safeguarded your interests in relation to your property purchase at all times and completed in full the necessary converyancing procedure on your behalf."

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 15:59

On 22 June 2009 - Ayhan Sener of Sener Law Firm stated the following in relation to the contract between Hasan Sungur and Cafer Yucelgazi:

"this document has not been translated. If you do require for it to be translated by us then this will take some time and we will have to charge you for the translation. However, for the clients for whom we undertook the conveyancing procedures on this project we have confirmed that this document was sufficient to prove the relationship between Hasan Sungur and Cafer in relation to Cafer building on the land. It was after the receipt of these agreement that we were happy for any contracts to be signed stateing that Cafer was the beneficiary and Constructor of the land."

CAN I ASK ANY OF YOU WHO HAVE LEGAL KNOWLEDGE:

What do you make of this

Thanks to Marian Stokes we got the document translated at no cost.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 16:01

Message 147 - PhilBailey.

I now know what I think!!!!!!!!

- What do you think?

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 18:19

Hildy,



I think the TRNC is on a par with Nigeria and Somalia! they should change their flag for a scull & crossbones!!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 19:49

It is disgusting and makes me sick to my stomach - no one seems to care!!!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 20:44

It would appear from the comments on my other posting that as someone has already said:

Hansan Sungur was 'given' the land and now wants £140,000.00 from the 7 British buyers. Who are then at risk of some Greek coming along and claiming the land. This would mean that we would then have to compensate the Greek.



Is this right

Am I right

If so, isn't this a good reason for Hasan Sungur to get rid of the land to us and pocket £140k for it and leave any 'settlement' problems to us?????



SOMEONE - Please advise

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 21:07

No one said that at all. What they said is that if it is exchange land then he could have been given it as compensation for the land he left behind it the south. He could have been sold it by someone who was given in as compensation for lost land in the south. Indeed land left in the south was more valuable than land in the north so making such assumptions is presumptuous. If you are not sure, surely you should find out first.

There is a world of difference beteen someone receiving land for no reason and someone receiving land as compensation for their lost land, in a place they once called home.



I certainly thought it was you who said it was exchange land.

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 21:29

HILDY,



Can you confirm at what stage of this mess did you meet Hasan Sungur !

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 21:39

I first 'met' Hasan Sungur at a meeting which he arranged with Marian Stokes.

I have been working with Marian Stokes for some time and she has contact with Hasan Sungur and they arranged a meeing on 9.5.2011. Also in attendance at this meeting was Cafer Yucelgazi and Benan Kursat.

Hasan also promised all of the costings etc etc etc which he had promised in 2009 as above an also in teh meeting with you Browneyes but they never materialised. So 2 1/2 years later we are still waiting for the costings which were promised above on message no 121.

I am now begining to wonder if this was a plan by Hasan and Mustafa Sener. They needed a gullible builder just like Cafer Yucelgazi to achieve their aim. Erzol on another posting regarding Exchanged Land (Which I did not fully understand)

If what I am hearing is correct Hasan go5 rid of land which the Greeks can claim back and demand compensation. He sells it to us and we then end up with the compensation to pay to the Greeks.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 21:41

So what you are saying misunderstood is that I am a method of securing monies for land which he had in the south because.

So I am his compensation for land he lost in the south!!!!!!!!!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 21:45

Several people have stated that 'exchanged land' is 'GIVEN' to TC's as compensation for land lost in the SOUTH.

I get the impression from what is being said that they are now SELLING this land to BRITS who are then saddled with paying the compensation when the GREEKS come back and want their land back.

As I said above - Ayhan Sener told me and wrote on the internet that my 'exchange land' was safe and secure.

if the Greeks are likely to come back and claim their land or ask for compensation - no the wonder Hasan Sungur is trying to dump the land onto us....

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 21:55

Hildy around 70-80% of all privately owned land (which is not the same as all land) in the North is essentialy disputed title. That is as a result of the events of 74 there is more than one person or entity with a potential claim on that land. I find it amazing that people can buy property here and not be aware of this.



The 'market' certainly has been aware of this and thus the value of the minority of privately owned land in the north that is NOT disputed title has always carried a premium vs that which is disputed.



The reality of risk of disputed to title, as far as actual history to date goes from 74 onwards is that it has been minsicule to date. Of the 10's and probably hundreds of thousands of transactions involving disputed title property in the North, there has only been one case of loss becuase of the dispute nature of the title.

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 21:57

AND from which time was you aware of Hasan Sungurs immediate involvement in this project and when did he last visit the sight to monitor it !



And is it right to believe refering to msj 139 when sener law firm requested an extra 1500GBP TO MONITOR AND QUOTE "Sener Law Firm monitoring the build and payment process" that you left this law firm and moved to another law firm MUSTAFA SOYKER the husband of Benan YOUR ESTAE AGENT (REMAX)

Who then as per your contract dated 2006 were responible for the monitoring of the progress of your house and payments were to be released upon their inspections !!!!!! And you only have a balance of 7,000GBP to pay



I REST MY CASE !!!!!!!!!!! You find fault in Hasan Sungur Mustafa Sener Law Firm..... BUT THE SUN SHINES



THROUGH BENAN,S AR............ !!!!!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 22:09

THANK YOU SO MUCH Erzol. I feel you are the only person who has told me the truth in 5 years buying here.

People are buying here because they are being lied to.

As you can see above (it is still on the internet) Ayhan Sener (who is now offering a conveyancing service) told us that it is 'safe and secure' However, she also told us that if Cafer went broke or died we would OWN whatever was constructed on the site at the time he died or went broke - ANOTHER LIE!!!! When this happened we found that we own NOTHING after payomg over £90k for this villa.

Why are they doing this to us?

I was house hunting in the south, I found 2 which were cheap £8k and £11k & needed renovation. I told my son about them (he was in RAF Akritiri). He told me to come up north as the:

- people were so much better and much more friendly

- the north was much more beautiful than the sourth

- the houses were much cheaper as we come from the North East of the UK so the houses there are athe same price as here

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 22:23

As far as risk goes and taking facts of what has happened to date and not speculation about what might happen in the future, the risk related to disputed deeds in the north has been miniscule. The risk in buying property in the north, as a citizen and much more so as a non citizen, regardless of what kind of deed it is, as a result of the failures of the systems in place here, the failures in how they are implemented and the failures in the legal system to provide just and fair redress when things do go wrong is large.



One 'person' to date has lost as a result of their deeds being 'disputed title'. Thousands, possibly 10's of thousands have lost as a result of the failures of the systems in place, their implementation and failures of legal system. That is the simple plain truth.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 22:43

and you are the first one here who has given us the truth!!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 22:51

Browneyes: ]

As you know hasan has never visite the site - he does not need to.

he has others who visit the site on his behalf.

- Do you really believe the a gullible builder like Cafer Yucelgazi would move Hasan Sungurs houses from the other side of the project and drop them directly in front of my house where my garden was supposed to be, on his own withoug being instructed to do it - I think not!!!!

- Do you really believe the a gullible builder like Cafer Yucelgazi would take it on himself to do that and also remove excavate approx 20ft of land in front of all the houses sold to the Brits and put their houses at risk (as their was no retaining wall at the rear of the property) on his own initiative. Also put our swimming pools on the roadside - would you buy a house with the pool on the roadside and not enouth room to put a sun bed at the side of the pool (Not mine but No 7) No he was instructed to do this and compromised the site as Cafer could not sell any more houses.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 22:54

browneyes message 160

you are totally WRONG !!!!!!

Hasam is guessing at this and has totally misinformed you.

Also, why should Hasan use you to bad mouth a member of his Union and the Vice President of his Estate Agents Union????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

????????????????????????????????????????????????

Please OPEN YOUR EYES - BROWNEYES !!!!!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 23:04

Browneyes: Message 161 you asked:

AND from which time was you aware of Hasan Sungurs immediate involvement in this project and when did he last visit the sight to monitor it !

I first knew of his involvement in the site when I decided to buy the house in 2006. Sener Law Firm told me that Hansan Sungur was a very prominent man here and a very big landowner. They said he was an 'honourble man' and that with him there as the landowner they did not foresee any problems relating to this purchase/site. They also continued to give me these reassurances each time I met them. They also said the same of Cafer - I was assured of him being such an honourable man.

All I can say is that their view of an 'honourable man' is different to mine.

Let me say this Browneyes. In 1936 my mother and father lived in a huge house in the uK with oil paintings, chrystal and luxury furniture. My mother owned a new Opal car and had servants to look after he house and the children

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 23:11

They came from a rich, wealthy family who owned a large furniture manufacturing company. My Uncle Billy was a millionaire who was also Chairman of Sunderland Footballl Club and Mayor of Sunderland. He used to drive past me in Rolls Royces. When I met Hasan Sungur he reminded me of Uncle Billy.

My father was a gambler, drinker. womaniser, and threw his money around - he reminded me of Cafer Yucelgazi - A FOOL TO HIMSELF.

I, as one of 13 children, grew up with nothing, my elder brothers and sisters grew up in wealth.

I have been listening to 'tricks', scam methods, dodgy deals, bankrupsy, voluntary liquidation etc etc etc since I was born and I now recognise the same methods being uses here.

The Turkish Cypriot people are wonderful. I have many TC friends and acquaintances. But they are being let down by some of their people who are ready to con anyone to make a buck!!!!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 23:21

WHY does Hasan want £20 for land which he was (as I understand it) 'Given as compensation.

WHY has Hasan hadestroyed our BEAUTIFUL project, designed by his architect Son Mehmet, by putting his houses in a position which is the opposite to the original plan (he did not get a build permit so he could do this after he had sold the land to us).

The original plan forms part of my contract and is signed by Cafer Yucelgazi and Mustafa Sener.

WHY has Hasan promised to get costings and sort out this problem since 2009 and done NOTHING!!!!!

You told me he has these costings this week - we have waited since 2009 (as shown above in an email) for this information, which is now based on 2011 costings and not 2009 costings.

I feel stupid!!!!! I started to trust Hasan Sungur until I turned up a court last week and was told that he still wanted £20k and would demolish my house (presumably if I did not agree to pay the £20k)

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 23:29

Browneyes message 160:

You state:" is it right to believe refering to msj 139 when sener law firm requested an extra 1500GBP TO MONITOR AND QUOTE "Sener Law Firm monitoring the build and payment process" that you left this law firm and moved to another law firm MUSTAFA SOYKER the husband of Benan YOUR ESTAE AGENT (REMAX) Who then as per your contract dated 2006 were responible for the monitoring of the progress of your house and payments were to be released upon their inspections !!!!!! And you only have a balance of 7,000GBP to pay.

NO BROWNEYES YOU ARE WRONG AND TOTALLY MISINFORMED by Hasan Sungur.

- I had already left Sener Law Firm by this stage and the correspondence relating to the £1500 was to one of the other buyers as I was obviously not getting the same information that they were from Seners.









THROUGH BENAN,S AR............ !!!!!

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 23:32

erolz (mess 162)



The truth:-



Thousands possibly 10's of thousands have lost as a result of the failures of the system in place! (how sad is that)! erolz you should feel ashamed of your Country!



dosent matter if you are a Robb victim! a Mortgage victim, a Cafer/Hasan victim, or just a plain victim of a corrupt Government!



In some ways Hildy when I read your last post to Browneyes worrying about where your swimming pool will go, makes me realize that you still think your home will be built to specification!



As for excavation!!!! makes the hairs stand up at the back of my neck!



Hildy no-one can sell any houses in Cyprus either North or South! unless the buyer is really stupid but I'm sure some stupid victims will amble along! poor sods! and they won't listen :-(



In another few months both Hasan & Cafer will be old news, and a new villan will take centre stage!



It's been this way for the past 9/10 years!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 23:37

Seners were contracted to monitor the build but failed to do it therefore Remax then agreed to take on this role. However, after Cafer refused to allow the Remax staff on the site Benan decided to go herself to chech things out and Cafer told her she was not allowed on the site and if she tried to enter the site he would set his dogs on her.

I also had conversations with Cafer regarding Benan and her staff monitoring the site and he objected to this even though it was written into the Addendum Agreement that this would happen. My Daughter also arranged (in the addendum agreeement) that all payments would also be made though Remax. But we had a lot of problems and rows with Cafer who was annoyed at Remax's involvment in the site, so we continued to pay the payments through Sener Law Firm - I TOTALLY REGRET THIS DECISION!!!!!!!!!!





I REST MY CASE !!!!!!!!!!! You find fault in Hasan Sungur Mustafa Sener Law Firm..... BUT THE SUN SHINES

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 23:43

TRNCvictim msg 170 just for the record and for what it is worth as a TRNC citizen I am ashamed of the failures of sucsessive TRNC administrations to provide a safe framework in which property can be bought in the TRNC and a legal system than can and does and is seen to offer fair redress when all else fails. The longer the situation persists the more ashamed I am about it.

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 23:45

Message 112 says "..anyone who bought after ,say 2008,



Finds out



it was true that you cant get Turkish Title for your offplan "....



I have been lost on most of this thread but I have a Cyprus Today paper dated April 2004 with a full page advert from Remax Golden Estate Agency Ltd(are these the people Hildy bought from?) and out of 23 adverts of individual properties for sale, 6 adverts are saying Title: Turkish Freehold. Should people have queried this then? Also 15 adverts are showing artists impressions of properties, 12 with TRNC Freehold.



Not quite sure if any of this is relevant, except to say, was the information there for people to check what they were buying, just a thought.



Remax were certainly a busy Estate Agents in those days, they advertised property in Zeytinlik, Ozankoy, Ilgaz, Catalkoy, Karsiyaka, Dogankoy, Bellapais, Alsancak, Kyrenia, Nicosia, Karaoglanoglu, Lapta.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 23:52

I have many emails which I wrote to Sener Law firm:

20/6/2009 Allessina Critchlow stated on behalf of Sener Law Firm:

Cafer has gone broke, he can knock the house down, H Sungur may have put a mortgage on the property,

She said that we needed to put money in a 'POT' to get he houses completed the figures of £195k across all properties was quoted. When I asked if Hasan Sungurs houses would also pay to the 'POT' I got no response. She also stated on 22 June: Cafer could bulldoze/knock down the house, Hasan Sungur may have mortgaged the property.

On 22nd June 2009 I sent a correspondence to Sener Law Firm requesting:

"Can you please confirm:

1 Our sales agreement is a tripart agreement between

a) ourselves

b) Cafer the developer and

c) Hasan Sungur the landowner

2 Our sales contact was registered so that we have priority over any later impediments/charges placed upon the land.

I received no response or answers to any of my questions.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
23/10/2011

erolz (mess 172)



I respect you for your honesty!

Browneyes


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 00:01

Trnc victim

you are absolutely right this place sounds like a disater and I can understand fully why Hildy is angry and too bloody right !

But I cant understand why she carried on paying for this disaster while her friend REMAX was contracted to monitor the progress and send reports to Hildy.

Hildy,

I am not informed by Hasan Sungur and i am not being used by Hasan Bey I am going by the contract that I have in front of me given by you at our meeting which i quoted earlier.

i speak accorrding to facts and if I dont know something then I dont discuss it !

Ever thought of sueing you Estate Agent ! who signed your contract and accepted that they will monitor your property and report to you about the progress ! Who sold you this mess and took commission for doing so !

At the end of the day they are a licenced firm and hold an insurance that covers for disaters like this. Wouldnt that be a quicker way to get your money back and get out of this mess !

Thats another option for you !

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 00:06

Message 173

I contacted Remax and other companies form the UK and I then came here and contacted other estate agents. I viewed approx 20 properties. The person who influenced our purchase most was Ayhan Sener acting as an Advocate (which she was not) and the lies that she told us.

In particular - Your Landowner is Hasan Sungur who is a reputable man here and an honourable man in addition to being one of the most prominant landowners here. Your exchange and is 'safe and secure'.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 00:14

Also what I have not mentioned so far is that Sener Law Firm took money from our staged payments without permission, authorisation or consultation:

1.12.06 Contracted payment paid to Sener Law firm £18,000k - Cheque to Cafer Yucelgazi £17,700

7.12.06 legal fees paid to Sener Law Firm £1376.00 - so monies deducted were NOT legal fees.

7.6.07 Contracted payment paid to Sener Law Firm £20,000k - Cheque to Cafer Yucelgazi ££19,960k

18.1.08 Contracted payment paid to Sener Law Firm £20,000k - Cheque to Cafer Yucelgazi £19,939k

16.1.09 Payment requested for Electric Transformer £4,500k - Cheque to Cafer Yucelgazi £4470k

I was also asked for £500 to attend a meeting with Cafer Yucelgazi and Mustaf Sener at his office. (Benan told me I could have had the meeting at her premiese FREE OF CHARGE!!!!!

I was also told by Sener Law Firm that I would have to pay the monies for the electric transformer again as Cafer had not paid for the Transformer.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 00:21

When I decided to remove my file from Sener Law Firm I arranged to collect it from their offices. I was told that all the documentation was within the file.

I took the file to Remax and Benan looked throught he file and she 'FREAKED OUT' when she say what was NOT in my file. Records relating to the:

Build Permit

Registration of Contract at the Land Registry even though my daughter and I came over to Cyprus specifically to pay £250 to register our contract, at the request of Sener Law Firm, in relation to the new law which Hasan Sungur was the architect and it required that our contract was submitted to the land registry. They refused to register my contract as it was not signed by Hasan Sungur or stamped or registere - WE HAD BEEN TOLD THAT THIS WAS ALL DONE.................

SO IN 2009 WE FOUND OUT THAT OUR CONTRACT WAS:

NOT - registered

NO - buld permit has been obtained

NO - record of Permissin to Purchase was contained in the file (the buyers had to obtain this themsleves

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 00:34

Browneyes:

Remax have supported and advised us with Marina Stokes throughout the 5 years I have been buying this property.

My Daughter attendedBenan's office EVERY DAY for a week meeting Cafer. his advoate, Remax's advocate and had tripartite conversations with Hasan Sungur by phone. She is nobody's fool and she stated that the dealings which were conducted by Benan and Dengiz Kursat were FANTASTIC. These two people really worked their buts off to deal with the situation which Hasan Sungur had caused by having his houses moved from one side of the site to another, contrary to the plan which formed part of our contract. Also by removing the land from in front of our houses he compromised the site so no more houses could be sold therefore Cafer had not more income to complete the houses - GO UP AND LOOK AT THEM!!!!! You would not buy them. I won't go to the houses. Recently one buyer went up and she said there has been land movement which has affected our houses.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 00:43

Browneyes (mess 176)



The whole of Cyprus is a disaster!



The problem is when we have paid X amount of money into a black hole, we don't want to believe we have been caught up in corruption, so we turn to something tangible that may help us! (I have been guilty of this) knowing what I know now it's very silly, but we run around like headless chickens trying to find some obscure way out (the fact that Hildy found friendship/help in her estate agent is bizarre) but she did and that is her choice! the reality maybe different, but that's up to her to find out



I paid my last £16,000 00 into the TRNC black hole when threatened I would lose everything I had paid before if I didn't, a couple of weeks later Robb disappeared, as did the rest of Aga Directors, Unwins were never my friends/help but then neither was Munir Akil who worked hand in hand with Robb & Unwins!



We sometimes believe what our stupid hearts want us to believe :-(

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 00:49

Hildy,



Why not go back to Marian Stokes for help? she seems to have been at most of your meetings! so must know exactly what has been happening! and should be able to take your plight forward!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 00:54

Browneyes

I took my Advocates File to Remax and I could not believe what I was told: no registration, no stamped contract, no build permit etc. I said I was looking for a new Advocate and she suggested M Soker. He is with H & A Advocates. He reviewed my file and I was astounded at the lack of REQUIRED documentation. I had obtained a list of required documentation from the HBPG website and had written to Sener Law Firm and was told (as stated above)that all the required conveyancing had been completed - LIES, LIES AND DOWNRIGHT BLOODY LIES!!!!

He reviewed my contract and it was worthless. Mustafa Soker & H & A Partners have been FANTASTIC. I thank God for the day I was directed to them. Sener Law Firm wanted £5000k for an injunction against Caferi. As an experienced Quality Auditor BS5750, I was impressed. Soker gave me a written quality document stating services to be provided and the costs. Having worked in a Solicitors in the UK I am well able to judge their services.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 00:59

TRNC, many thanks...

Marian has been of great help and suport to me. She has also disagreed or confirmed my actions when required. She supported my change of Advocate to Mustafa Soker (who trained and worked in England). She told he he was good in a crisis and just what I needed.

She frequently recommended that I discuss things with Benan as she too has found her very supportive.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 08:39

Hildy, are you ABSOLUTELY sure that Hasan Sungur does not have the necessary building permits for the site, and have proof from your advocate for example. Your statement is being challenged and I need to know if you can support your accusation.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 11:46

Just how was this illegal development allowed to be built if there were no permissions for it? Does the Beledeysi & or local Muktar not monitor building developments?

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 12:04

Well Hector they certainly didn't monitor Amaranta! just how they managed to miss it i'll never know

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 12:28

I was informed by my Advocate in Sept 2009 that there was:

No Buiild Permit

No Contract Stamped

No Contract Registration

If the build permit had been in place then Hasan Sungur and Cafer Yucelgazi could not have moved Hasan's houses in front of mine. When I asked how this has been done I was told that with no build permit they could do what they liked. The plan which forms part of my contract does not reflect the site as it is now. I was given another plan in 2007 showing the new plan AFTER HASAN SUNGURS HOUSES HAD BEEN DUMPED IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 12:32

Hector,



yes it steps in usually when the shell is up and buyers have paid the biggest amount of money. Hence all the empty "ruins" dotting the landscape.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 12:33

I have documents which I was told were 'plans' = Sehir Planlama Dairesi' when I put these forward I was told that they were plans not a build permit and that I should have a build permit registration number. I also visited the belediesi and they told me that there was not build permit. I visited the Kaymakumlic and was told that they did not have a build permit.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 16:07

Hildy, perhaps the building permit was issued at a later stage?

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 16:27

No Contract stamped - usually the stamp on your Contract is Stamp duty - your responsibiliy



No Contract registered - I did my own



No building permit- really? oh dear oh dear oh dear .....must have been a forgery I saw yesterday, or was it???

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 17:31

The plan which forms part of my contract has signatures on (as have the other pages) the signatures are Cafer Yucelgazi's and Mustafa Sener - It bears no relation to the site as it is.

We were told that the communal garden would not be included and that was all.

We received an email from Sener Law Firm in 2008 telling us we had to come here and pay £250 to register our contracts under the new law. We did that both my daughter and I and went to the Notary and completed all the documentation. We were told that this would 'protect' us if anything went wrong with the build. We then found out (as stated in an above email) we could not register our Contract of Sale as Hasan Sungur had refused to sign the contract and the Land Registry would not register the conttact.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 17:36

It could well be a forgery - nothing would surprise me now.

What I do know is that for 5 years neither Sener Law Firm and Soker were able to get copies. There was

My file was removed from Sener Law Firm in September 2009 and contained:

no build permit, build permit number

no Contract registration or Contract Registraton number

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 17:59

Usually all such documents relating to the build are kept in the Green file. Ask about it HIldy.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 18:05

I also PAID Sener Law Firm to deal with all my property conveyancing - I do not expect to have to do it myself.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 18:20

Surely by now Hildy you must realise if you want anything done here, you must do it yourself.



All the Advocates offered to do the Contract registration at an extra cost, mine wanted £350, so I did it myself. I obtained the paperwork and it took about an hour because of the queues, also when I found out about the mortgage I have to wonder if I would have found out about the mortgage if I let the Advocate do it, at least not maybe until the bailiff knocked on the door. I prefer the £350 in my pocket than the Advocates.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 18:40

You cannot register your Contract of Sale if it does not have the LANDOWNERS signature on the contract.

Am I wrong???????

I was told this by the Belediesi and the Kaymacumlic and both Advocates.

Or has Mr Sungur got his box of magic tricks out again and suddently produced a SIGNED CONTRACT with REGISTRATION after 5 years?

I paid Sener Law Firm over £1500 and he still deducted monies from all my staged payments without permission, authority or consent.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 18:43

How is it that I have been in several meetings with Mr Sungur and on numerous occasions I have stated that there is NO build permit, NO Contract Registration etc etc etc

HE has never contridicted me or informed me of anything to the contrary.

Now all of a sudden out comes his box of tricks.............................

Excuse me for being suspicious

billlfc



Joined: 04/11/2008
Posts: 69

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 18:55

I meet browneyes last week ! .

Me i found the lady very sorry 4 you trouble's.

BUT your consit going on;s is not helping.

Browneyes said to me if H,S lied in any way she will go 4 him in papers +court !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do realise your hurt , me being english with cyp wife have some advantage but lets meet

at lodge ,. With a notory + all others ?

I will lision 2 you + H S , try too help ... bill





sorry my spell check has gone done