You think stray dogs should be culled?

Nannykathleen


Joined: 01/10/2011
Posts: 23

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 16:04

To all you folks who think that "spare" dogs should be put down: An suitable incinerator for the bodies would cost about £25,000 plus housing. Donations, please. Secondly, perhaps some of you would like to volunteer on a regular basis to go to the KAR centre, choose some dogs from all those big brown eyes and wagging tails and then take them to the Vet, try to convince him or her to put them down, and, if successful, hold them whilst they are killed. If you are not prepared to do this, then don't expect the animal lovers who devote much of their spare time to KAR, or anyone else, to do so.



The "neuter and return" policy is proven to work internationally, and is the recommended course of action by RSPCA International, WSPCA and other agencies. It has made a huge difference here over the years. Nothing, however, will work instantly, the RSPCA has taken 110 years to get to where it is in UK.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 16:21

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/56329.asp

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 16:35

NannyKathleen



, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-496868/British-woman-mauled-death-wild-street-dogs-Bulgaria-died-husbands-arms.html



I understand what you are saying but dogs are pack animals and returning them tagged to the area they were picked up in my opinion is okay if you are guaranteed that someone will feed them. If not do we wait until they attack and have a situation like the one described in the liink?



I know the above link is not pertinent to this country but the point is it could happen here as well!

I am not knocking KAR just giving you my opinion.



Chris

mitsi


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 345

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 16:53

They seem to have a better solution in the south............ http://www.kypros-cyprus.com/Greek-Cyprus-animal.html

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 17:02

It would seem so Mitsi....

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 17:35

I agree, we found a street dog with the tag in it and we decided to keep her. We now have 2. So although they are 'street' dogs it means that you know they do not belong to anyone so if you wish to keep them you can. I contacted KAR and found out about our Sally who was abandoned in an empty house with 10 puppies. I know about our Bella as she was abandoned in and empty house near me with 6 puppies. Both and now living and loving a caring home with 2 other doggy friends (one mine and one a neighbours).

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 17:45

Well said, nannykathleen.



I frequently disagree with KAR, but people who expect volunteers to kill healthy animals are uncharitable and arrogant.



So are people who come to a foreign counry and expect to dictate policy to their hosts, and do not respect their relgion and customs.



I know (I have had to do it twice) that is is distressing enough for both owner and Vet to put down an old dog suffering pain from an incurable disease., or struggle to help a dog which has been poisoned or injured. Vets (like doctors) are dedicated to saving life, not destroying healthy life - would you expect a doctor to put down a person because they have nowhere to live?



If you are concerned about the stray dog problem do something practical to help those of us who make sacrifices to give a few a happy life - help with walking and training, or offer to dog sit so we canhave a much needed holiday or we are ill oursleves contd.....................

ginty


Joined: 11/03/2009
Posts: 228

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 17:46

it is wicked to see these dogs starving on he streets, if they cannot be re homed they should be put to sleep it would be the kindest thing for them. You just cannot turn an animal out on the streets to fend for themselves. I think that is very cruel. I am very much an animal lover but I would gladly take them to the vet to be put to sleep rather than let them suffer a slow and painful death through starvation and mistreatment

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 17:52

If you dont want to be hands on, donate to KAR or one of the smaller charities. They are not perfect or allways right but they are the best we have and most of them are really working hard.



And DO NOT import or breed dogs particularly large and/or fighting breeds to swell the stray population and make it more dangerous. If you want to bring a beloved pet make sure you mean to stay, and have it neutered before you come.

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 17:52

As another animal lover, I have to agree with ginty 100%. I wish someone would explain, definitively, exactly how this "neuter and release" scheme works. As far as I can work out, a stray is taken in, speyed and then released back onto the street - still, I assume, with no-one to feed/care for it?



If I have this all wrong, I would very much appreciate someone 'in the know' explaining just how it does work.



Thanks.

Tango1


Joined: 19/02/2011
Posts: 1151

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 18:07

Msg.10 I can appreciate you wanting to know the facts and would suggestthat perhaps it would be better for you to contact KAR direct and get someone in the office (or if you are lucky and she is available, Margaret Ray). Then the full and accurate facts can be explained to you, rather than some of the misguided information that finds itself on this board. Just a thought!!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 18:18

stop using the 'clean' term 'put to sleep'

they are not 'put to sleep'

they are KILLED!!!!!!!!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 18:24

Jeannie - my two dogs were speyed by KAR and put back on the street.

They found us and we gave them a home. I am sure that lots of others do. Whenever, we see a dog in need of care we deal with it.

I was in the centre of Kyrenia one day and say an injured dog. I rang KAR but they had no volunteers able to pick it up and asked if I could take it to the vet. I did and the dog needed more care and return to the vet the next day. So I took her home and looked after her overnight. She was on antibiotics so to be cared for for 5 days. The next day I took her back to the vet and KAR picked her up. As I have 3 dogs I was not able to keep her but I could give her temporary home until KAR could deal with her.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 18:25

I am currently in Istanbul and the neuter and release programme appears to used here. We have seen many tagged street dogs, all of whom appear to be in very good condition (a bit overweight if truth be told). Not sure who runs the programme and whether it is done by a local charity or the Beleyedesi, but whoever is responsible is doing a good job.



The dogs appear to be accepted as part of the city landscape and are treated well by the locals - maybe this is the difference between the mainland and the TRNC ????



Paul

the2ofus


Joined: 13/02/2008
Posts: 637

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 18:36

mitsi - msg 4 - on the face of it your link appears to represent a valid response to the stray dog problem - but it raises some points ;

a) I think that the authorities (and vets) on the South side may not have the same religous/moral views on euthanasing healthy dogs as their counterparts here in TRNC .

b)There are no "pound" facilities here for the dogs to be kept in for 1 to 15 days;

c) Owners should give their dogs "identity number" - this implies that they have a coherent dog registration scheme in place - unike here where it is haphazard and not enforced !

d) The South side still has a big problem with stray dog numbers - so the the article solutions have still not solved the issue.

As to an "incinerater" for cremating bodies - i can only imagine the rules/regulations/red tape etc that would be needed to set it up - if it were permissable at all here !! It still doesn't get around the fact that vets here WILL NOT put down healthy dogs just because they are strays .

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 18:45

However, Ihave to admit there is one problem with the "return to where it was found" policy. On one occasion walking two smallish dogs , one of the dogs (a recently neutered male) was attacked by a pack of strays - it was a dangerous and frightening experience and the dog, and possibly myself, only escaped injury because some Cypriot youth scared the strays away.



On other occasions tagged dogs have tried to play with dogs (one a playful puppy being lead trained)being walked on a lead. Very gentle friendly tagged dogs, but in a busy street it was a danger to all the dogs and the human on the other end of the lead not to mention the drivers who, fortunately braked sharply and/or swerved.



I dont know the answer - if the dogs are released inthe wild presumably they have less chance of being adopted or at least fed, but I do think they should not be released in areas of heavy traffic.

Nannykathleen


Joined: 01/10/2011
Posts: 23

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 18:47

ginty, nobody likes to see animals turned out on the streets. What you have to bear in mind is that these dogs are already on the streets before they are picked up to be neutered, and if healthy and in reasonable condition, are doing OK in their life, even if it is not what we consider to be ideal. Given the choice, a dog would rather live than die. Dogs that are in very poor condition are not returned to the streets.



My point was, that the big animal charities have years of experience in dealing with dog problems all over the globe, and KAR follow guidelines produced by these organisations. Their solutions are the best compromise between what the humans want and expect, and what the dogs would want, given the choice. Go to the KAR office and ask to see copies of the guidelines produced by RSPCA International and WSPCA. You will then realise that things aren't as simple as you think.

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 18:54

i volunteer to put down some healthy humans!!!!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 19:00

The notion that killing an animal is what is best for it, because it MIGHT end up starving or getting run over or suffer illness is to me plainly BS. Argue that it should be killed for our, or societies or even indigenous wildlife's benefit and you will not hear a peep out of me. Claim that it should be done for the anaimals benefit and I will say BS because in my opinion such an argument clearly is. Just be honest, with yourself and with others.



The tagged dog living in our area for the last 2 years or so is absolutley and undoubtedly better off living as it has done and does now than being killed years ago. Only the most deluded of people would argue that it should be killed for ITS benefit in my opinion. I challenge those who claim it would be better of killed, for its OWN benefit, to come and meet this dog and then tell me to my face it should be killed for ITS benefit and not for ours.

iceman


Joined: 15/08/2008
Posts: 724

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 19:50

well said Erol..

Only time i would agree to euthanizing a dog is, if it has an incurable illness which is causing it pain.

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 19:55

Putting "Nanny" in your pseudonym encapsulates your disposition - doesn't work with me though, any more than the "big brown eyes" or "wagging tails" bs - your polemic is so emotionally loaded, you appear unable to look objectively at the situation. To anthropomorphise animals is what makes it impossible to reason with people such as yourself - KAR doesn't keep every stray sheltered fed and watered, as you confirm - they are neutered and returned to a life of 24/7 searching for sustenance, shelter, and constant misery of fleas, ticks, mange or dying slowly, painfully and in misery, let alone fighting off other feral animals.



http://www.animalwelfareonline.org/Images/resources_Companion%20Animals_false_An-Overview-of-the-Stray-Animal-Issue-English_tcm34-11728.pdf Suggested reading: especially WSPA's acceptance of the "need to euthanase HEALTHY animals when experiencing a poor quality of life". If VETS can't/won't euthanase, there is always someone who will - for the animals sake

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 20:04

MsGarnet for me this is nothing to do with emotional appeals to 'cute' animals or anthopomorphising them. It is to do with honesty. I do not think animals have the safe 'value' as humans. I do think we can chose to kill them should we want to, as we do in vast numbers for food. What pisses me off is the argument that killing an animal is what is in IT'S best interest, when the alternative is not CERTAIN and SWIFT death by stravation or suffering and pain as you make out. To kill an animal because there is a CHANCE of it starving or suffering and ignore the reality that there is also a demonstrable chance that it could have many years of perfectly happy and content life, and then say we killed it for ITS benefit, is to me just bollocks. Kill it for YOUR benefit by all means but stop pretending you want it killed for ITS benefit, when it could have a happy healthy life if you did not as well as possibly one where it suffers.

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 20:07

Well, as always a very emotive and divisive subject.



Many thanks for all your answers.



Jean

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 20:24

Erol : Message 19 and 22 You have hit the nail on the head people are thinking what is best for them not the dogs.



Moxie Message l8 - I will help you!



Jean Message 23. Yes perhaps we should give some attention to people in need!

fosterscan


Joined: 27/02/2010
Posts: 541

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 20:33

When your grandchildren get bitten you will change your minds !

we put them down in the uk to clear the streets they should over there.

yes i would pick and inject them.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 20:47

There are just too many dogs roaming the region. People simply do not offer animals the care and attention that they need. Many people, i feel, think that they do. Many are either over fed or indeed under fed. Many are not exercised enough.

I am certainly no expert but animal welfare in my view takes only some common sense to get vaguely right. Dogs have evolved from carniverous hunting beasts and the domestic varient has many genetic remenants of their ancestral beginnings.

There are too many teretorial dogs in the region that have a vicious tendancy to any person or other dog that comes anywhere close to it. This is unfair to people that may be unfortunate enough to pass these animals whilst for intance walking or on a bike. It is not fair that this type of situation all too often arises.

If you cannot take adequate care of your animal and fail to understand the needs of the animal as well as understand that neighbours and passers by have a proper right for peace. Then stop.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 20:59

If I may ask, How many of the 200+ dogs does KAR manage to RE -Home in twelve Months..?



How many dogs have been "Incarcerated " for more than 2 Years,?



And, How long must the "Incarceration" of these poor unwanted dogs continue to drain KAR's Resources?





They are supposed to be an" ANIMAL RESCUE" centre,but by their own admission are full to bursting ..

ginty


Joined: 11/03/2009
Posts: 228

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 21:02

perhaps I have been unlucky but every stray dog or cat that I have seen has been in a dreadful condition, flea ridden and half starved. when they get in pacts they can be dangerous. you are right fostercan when someone gets bitten they will change their minds. If it wasn't for people taking them in the problem would be a lot worse but there are only so many homes. I am sure KAR are doing a great job but you cannot save them all.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 21:16

I love Animals more than I love People BUT, there comes a time when even I , a member of WSPA,a Life member of the RSPCA ,and more recently the Maximus Elephant Foundation, have to say it's time to do something about the Plague of unwanted animals here ,before they become VERMIN...

Riddles


Joined: 26/04/2011
Posts: 429

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 21:51

" I love animals more than I love people ..." words fail me!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 22:01

Once more.



Say to me strays need to be killed for the benefit of society at large, or your grandchildren, or the environment or any similar reason and you will not get an argument out of me, other than to say it should be done properly and humanely.



Say to me strays need to be killed for THEIR benefit and I will say that is bollocks because to me it so clearly is.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 22:40

msg..30, I suppose that everything Fails you eh..Try a little animal empathy, many animals here live a living death ,according to your hypothesis that's OK, words also fail me ..

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 22:52

msg 31 Do you mean to tell me that you never see dogs,cats starving to death,or riddled with disease.?Do you never think to yourself , those poor hapless creatures, but for the grace of God go I..?If you don't , it is you that are the Bo**ocks..

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 22:58

I Ask Again.pay Attention!,, how many dogs at the KAR centre are re-homed in 12 Months..???

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 22:59

martinD41 certainly an anaimal, stray or not, can get to a state where killing it is in its own best interests. However this is not the same as saying that killing any and all strays, regardless of its current condition, because it MIGHT in the FUTURE get into such a state, is in ITS best interests.



I do not know how to say it any clearer than that.



I have had animals put to sleep, our own as well as strays we have been trying to nurse back to health. Deciding when the time is 'right' for such is never easy but I accept that such a time can come. What I do not accept is that it is in a healthy animals best interest to be killed because it MIGHT get into such a state some unkonwn time in the future.



PS I think you can type bollocks here if you want to without having to star letters out.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
22/10/2011 23:04

martinD41 msg 34, I do not know the answer to your question but I have one for you.



How many would have to be homed in a 12 month period before you think it would not be better (for THEM) for NONE of them to get that chance and instead be killed ? 1 ? 10 ? 50 ? 100 ?

swyflot


Joined: 07/11/2008
Posts: 916

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 00:20

Instead of moaning about KAR's policies and inadequesies why not ring the Centre / Office and offer to do somethimg to help, it's not rocket science after all

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 00:46

Swyflot how correct you are, indeed as i have said before, lets put down all the starving africans ,the chinese orphans/ aids ridden scum because no one wants them, because they would also be better off dead , rather than starving !!seen as BETTER OFF DEAD IN THE EYES OF HUMANS , SO MUCH BETTER OFF, OH.... MY KID MAY GET BITTEN !!! WELL AS AN ADULT DONT LET YOUR KIDS PLAY WITH FIRE!!!be responsible adults .



take responsibility and live within the country you have chosen , sorry but cant see how many half dead , starving dogs could actually manage an attack? it may well happen, but in 12 years i have never seen a PACK attack !! Kar do their best, ive seen things when i dont agree , but on the whole, where the F..k would we be without them





Elizabeth , i have a list





its probably in YOUR own interests that these dogs be murdered,

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 00:57

as you may have read . i found a dying Boxer dog on Thursday, this wasnt a result of KAR DUMPING !!! but god dammit Brits... im sure, cowards, liars , cheats, cheap skates oh ive got cancer !!! this is more the results we are seeing now !...get out clause for cheap Brits , dumping dogs, playing on our consciences ..................makes me sick , and its people like me , and other animal lovers that see the real devistation of thier pets!!!!

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 10:27

maybe this is what we need......... http://www.cyprusanimalwelfare.com/dog-law.html

charlotte55


Joined: 14/11/2008
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 11:49

Message 17 Quote



Given the choice, a dog would rather live than die



Perhaps you would like to ask the poor wretch who's owner leaves her tied up all the time and hungry for days on end after giving birth cries all day and howls all night

I feed and talk to her in secret because she is going demented



KAR do the best they can

Nannykathleen


Joined: 01/10/2011
Posts: 23

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 13:24

We can all do something regardless of our opinions about the homeless dog situation, but unfortunately next to nothing about "owned" dogs. KAR have no powers. The long term answer lies in education and the gradual changing of attitudes towards responsible ownership. Sorry to keep on about KAR, but they do have an excellent schools education programme. Many of the adults are a lost cause, as we well know.



As for nuisance dogs, it's not only "strays" that attack other dogs and cyclists etc. I for one have heard of more bad attacks committed by owned dogs that are not confined, often the same dogs several times over. In this country, just because a dog is on the street it doesn't mean it is homeless!

Nannykathleen


Joined: 01/10/2011
Posts: 23

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 13:30

Is a cyclist or a grandchild more at risk from a roaming dog than from all the amazing drivers here? Moxie, lets get cracking on putting a few of those down. And maybe the beggar in the town centre, doesn't look cared for and obviously has no food and possibly a few fleas too. And offends our sensibilities!

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 13:40

So why do people keep dogs? Do we need companionship? Are they living toys just like fair ground goldfish?

Why is it dogs and cats that prevail and then become the unquestinable problem that is evident.



Perhaps a licencing and responsibility tax would filter out the seroius and conciencous owners from the ignorant and disrespectfull majority.



What are these dog and cat hotels all about? Are people really so stupid about these animals?

The issue of strays and neglect of these animals could be easily controlled if people were made to pay from the outset. There are indeed choices involved and if monetary costs are introduced then there would very quickly be a raise in the standard of care and responsibiliy.

I cannot see any likelyhood of a solution without some radical introduction of control.

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 15:09

education and heavy fines may be a start, along with fees for keeping an animal, as soon as locals stop their dogs breeding , silly girls stop chasing after one of those small dogs, like a fashion accessory, and idiots boys who want pitbulls and dobermans ...................to make themselves look hard !!! and people who breed dogs on this island should be charged, with extreme stupidy, making money out of dogs when there is such a problem.



I liken it to having a food fight in Ethiopia!!!

fosterscan


Joined: 27/02/2010
Posts: 541

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 15:19

So its the do gooding brits that take a stray in for a few years then dump them back when they leave thats the problem......no it the shere numbers of dogs, cull it down to a manageable number and it will be better for every one/dog in the future.

iceman


Joined: 15/08/2008
Posts: 724

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 15:42

"idiots boys who want pitbulls and dobermans"



ooiiiii moxie....leave dobermanns out of this!!

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 15:55

I must agree that ,certainly in the UK, dogs have sadly become an accessory to being hard, cool, or somewhat fashinable.

Young males with in bred fighting dogs on huge chains being ceremonously paraded around the streets is indeed a sad sight to see. Small fashion groomed smaller dog breeds similarly paraded by young girls and women is equally as sad.

The mass marketing of feeds, clothing and grooming accessories, hostellries, insurance packages and welfare facilities has led much of the population to become obsessed with manipulating these animals into providing their owners with some sort of comfort. This is on the large not wrong at all but without doubt many animals suffer as a consequence. This is wrong. Dogs are largely dangerous to non owners and other dogs.Ownership is certainly taken too lightly. The solution...less dog ownership, tighter control and accountability. Will it happen? Probably not. Canine anarchy, neglect and mistreatment will lead to violent backlash.

yrret


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 761

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 16:00

I actually think it's the irresponsible peole who breed dogs for no reason, or do not prevent uncontrolled breeding, or just dump a dog because it's no longer of any use to them that need culling, it's not the dogs that are the problem, it's the lack of edcucation (if any!).

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 16:07

Msg 45 " Liken it to having a food fight in Ethiopia " ?? call me dim if you like , but can you elaborate please

Simbas

Tango1


Joined: 19/02/2011
Posts: 1151

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 17:40

I read threads like this on Cyprus44 and I just wonder what possesses some of you. Are you totally incapable of keeping to the point, without having to bring "starving Africans" or "Chinese orphans" into the equation. Get a grip for heavens sake?



Msg. 25, Next time a healthy dog is brought into any of the Vets to be "put down" please leave your telephone number and I'm sure you will be given a call. You can then look this "healthy" but unwanted animal in the eye and YOU can inject it with a lethal poison. You can then also arrange for the disposal of the carcase, OK? By the way, unless you actually close the dogs eyes, they will still be open. LOOK IT IN THE EYE EVEN WHEN IT'S DEAD AND FEEL PLEASED WITH YOURSELF BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT A VET HAS TO GO THROUGH.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 17:43

Yes of course,

Life is full of choices and decisions.

Some are better at it than others.



To be a vet or not to be a vet?

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 17:51

simbas, what i was trying to say is......its not really a sensible, logical or an ethical thing to do...ie, breeding dogs when we have such problem already,

same as you wouldnt throw food about for fun around starving people .. its called behaving with some degree of empathy within the culture you live.





iceman,not iceboy !! i think you may well find that this island did not have such breeds many years ago, its become fashionable now, having said that i love all dogs , and have never labelled these dogs are dangerous, its the owners that are dangerous?......when i say boys , im talking about the young Cypriot men here who now all of a sudden want one of these breeds, and its not because they love the breed!! funny how no one wants a Cyprus poodle now ?





next we will start hearing of organised dog fights, if these animals get into the wrong hands !!!

iceman


Joined: 15/08/2008
Posts: 724

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 18:38

moxie

I agree with you that dangerous dogs such as pitbulls and rottweilers are seen like fashion accesories by young locals and they have no idea of the danger they posses, but Dobermann is not so popular and not many around, so please do not generalize!!

They have bad enough reputation as it is..

the2ofus


Joined: 13/02/2008
Posts: 637

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 18:59

I would like to know what the "lets cull" brigade have done to help reduce the so called "stray dog problem" here !

If they feel so strongly about it then - Why have they not set up their own organisation to deal with, what they believe , to be the problem. Let them raise the funds, purchase vehicles and necessary equipment, organise volunteers to go around and collect the dogs (making sure they do not accidently pick up an "owned" dog which is out and about), provide the HUMANE euthanasia drugs, find and pay a vet who will euthanase the dogs and then all that is left is for them to dispose of the carcasses.

Why not - because they would rather sit at home, tapping away on a keyboard to whinge and moan about the "perceived" problem and whinge and moan because other people are not doing exactly what they want - which is CULL - but they can't be arsed to do it themselves !!!

fosterscan


Joined: 27/02/2010
Posts: 541

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 19:27

The2ofus its a disscussion some people want a cull and some people dont the 'law' does not agree with culling. i personably dont like drivein round dead dogs on the road although i havent had to for a while

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 19:35

Moxie: Message 45 So right.



PS I have a list too!

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 19:52

Message 44. I keep dogs because I enjoy their compansionship, their undemanding love, their antics make me laugh and unlike humans they are never deliberately cruel or harsh or unfair.



I keep as many strays as I can cope with because they need a home and I am doing my bit for the community by keeping them off the streets. I keep them (hopefully) from straying by spending money on fences instead of a swimming pool or nights at the pub. Vets fees and food takes a big slice out of my pension. I dont have holidays because of the cost of kennels. I would never willingly abandon them, but it coul happpen ill health would prevent me caring for them.



I get precious little help and support least of all from KAR and sometimes really struggle and some carers make even greater sacrifices. If you are worried about strays get off your backsides and do something constructive instead of carping at those who do something, however little they are able to manage. contd.............

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 19:58

BizziLizzi - I don't think for one minute that people are decrying what you, and many others like you, do for these unfortunate animals. I think the point being made is that the problem (if you can call it that) is becoming unmanageable. With the best will in the world, there are not enough people to care for all the unwanted dogs in TRNC and desperate times do, sometimes, call for desperate measures.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 19:59

I am sick and tired about alll the carping and criticising of dog owners.



The suggestion we should be charged for caring for strays is offensive. . By all means tighten up the licencing - IF it can be done - but dont add to the burden of those who do take stray off the streets, and above all DO give large discounts for neutered animals.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 20:15

Jeannie May be you dont, but a lot of people do, and I agree that there are too many strays for them all to find a home.



But I dont agree the problem is out of hand - it was worse when I first came here because there were more packs, which could be dangerous. What is out of hand is the breeding and importation of large dogs which in time will interbreed and increase the size and risk of pack dogs.



And btw |I have just noticed an earlier post by Moxie about breeding and training for fighting - I hve heard it is already happening- now that is something that should be tacked firmly - anyone here got the guts to do it? I certainly havent! Safer to criticise resposible owners and put down a few inoffensive harmless strays.



A lot of the problem is ignorance. Few dogs, unless specifically bred or trained to it, or seriously mishandled ( or teased by unsupervised childre)are intrinsically dangerous... Judging from this thread KAR should extend its training to British adults.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 21:26

BL



It should never be forgotton that dogs are animals that are on an evolutionary path. All dogs have intrinsic hunting and fighting instincts. It is human intevention that has interffered with the evolutionary path. Attempting to domesticate the animal has shown little real sucess as most breeds retain the genetic traits necessary for hunting, killing and retention of territory.



I fear that many dog owners confuse love and companionship with a ready supply of food welfare and shelter. Take these away from any dog and it will try to revert to its instinctive hunting ancestory. It is sad that many "domesticated" examples fail because human intervention has provided a doggy welfare state.



If dogs replace fellow human interaction then that is very sad.



I have no issue at all with persons who offer assistance to any animal in distress. However dogs have been manipulated unfairly to meet the feeble asspirations of humans.



None of the above applies to true working dogs.

horselover


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 129

Message Posted:
23/10/2011 21:44

humans slaughter and kill thousands of animals a day. whether its a dog, fox, or baby lamb, or horse. humans will always kill for food, fur or fun. just because we take dogs into our homes, it makes them no less precious than the lamb you didnt care to watch hang upside down n bleed to death, so you could enjoy a sunday roast!

we have the techno to make creatures infertile without surgery, by ingesting chemicals etc, god only knows that governments do it to the human population as more n more women are becoming infertile.me included. mine apparently is due to aerosol gases n fluoride etc. gotta get my dog done.mm..think il start spraying his armpits with lynx!

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
24/10/2011 00:24

WAZ



Dogs as unique in the animal kingdom in that they constantly demontrate a need for human company. There are numerous examples of dogs being neglected or even mistreated by their owners and still remain loving and loyal .



Someone mentioned the dog at Lemar on another thread. I saw it yesterday, fat as butter and needs putting on a diet and some excercise. So well fed that it actually turns down food offered to it, but it is in seventh heaven when someone makes a fuss of it!



Of course dogs retain hunting, fighting (particularly Alpha males) and territorial instincts - just like humans. Dogs are excellent companions, particularly for someone by choice or fate, temporarily or permanent alone - if they are treated as dogs, "Interaction" any animal to the extent of treating them as humans, parlticularly children is a sad reflection on the charity and tolerance of the human race. Interaction between dog and human shoudl be on the base on mutual help and respect

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
24/10/2011 04:51

Msg 14 - the difference between the mainland and TRNC is that TRNC is HALF A SMALL ISLAND!!!!!!!!



Msg 41 - why do you speak to, and feed, the animal in secret? Why haven't you spoken to the owner (take someone with you if necessary when you do so) how does it help the animal if you are enabling the owner to keep it in straitened circumstance...



Risible tripe, such as message 43, loses the writer all credibility; when a person get facetious or makes ludicrous proclamations, one realises one can't reason with an unreasonable person.



http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/76531.asp - in my opinion, these cross breed Rottweiler puppies should be euthanased rather than homes found for them, as they will add to the pool of huge, potentially unmanageable animals, probably bought as status symbols, plus if not neutered or spayed, so the problem of too many dogs confined to the small area of half an Island, will continue...

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
24/10/2011 09:56

sorry iceman i did mean rotweiller, not dobermans, getting my breeds mixed up!

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
24/10/2011 10:12

MsGarnet



My point is that the attitude of the local community towards dogs appears to be totally different. It has nothing to do with the size of the 'real estate'. Out walking by the Blue Mosque yesterday we saw approx a dozen dogs, all were well fed and we even saw a few locals bringing them rawhide chews on which to snack

iceman


Joined: 15/08/2008
Posts: 724

Message Posted:
24/10/2011 10:51

One has to understand there is very few locals who actually walk their dogs themselves..the majority keep their dogs tied or locked up in a chicken coop and once a day free them to go do their thing!! (and hopefully come back)

so, every dog you see rooming the streets is (technically) not a stray..

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
24/10/2011 13:07

iceman - not just locals that put their dogs outside the gate "and hopefully come back" - a few months ago we had three or four threads from Vikkicm about her dog called Bob, who she herself said "went off for a run, as he always does, about 9pm every night and never came back, usually back in ten minutes, disappeared into thin air!", this was Savyon Village, Catalkoy, just up from the riding stables. It beggars belief that sooooooooooo many members of this forum posted rivers of sympathy but when I happened to point out that if you put your dog outside your gate "every night" is it surprising that one night, he won't come back? I was shot down in flames of course, called unsympathetic et cetera - but the fact remains, if you put your dog outside your property to go and leave piles of faeces, and run in and out of traffic, or chase local bitches in heat, or whatever else when roaming, is it surprising one night, because you couldn't be bothered to walk it or secure it, it disappears?

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
24/10/2011 13:46

im beginning to feel a stray has a better life than one tied up for the rest of its days ?

charlotte55


Joined: 14/11/2008
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
24/10/2011 19:26

MsGarnet

Believe me I've been over and over this in my mind

He would not listen he is not friendly or he may say "you can have it then"!! I can't take more dogs because of my health which is why I feel so helpless, useless but I've got to speak to her( the dog) to comfort her if nothing else as she is so lonely its awful but I don't think she would run if I cut her loose. I know there are loads more in TRNC and the World but I can't comfort them am I wrong?

C

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
24/10/2011 20:34

Charlotte. i think you are doing your best in an obviously horrible situation, but im sure it may be better to be open with the owner, just ask if its ok that you give her titbits etc, then you wont have the stress of being secretive ?

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
24/10/2011 21:29

BL message 64.

I am in agreement of much that you say.

I fear that increasingly dogs are not trainned, treated and domesticated in a fashion that creates the idilic family pet. Dogs are increasingly dangerous and certainly in the TRNC many are mistreated, misbehaved and are often a nuisance. I cannot see any evidence that this will change anytime soon but rather the unrully dog population will continue to rise and havoc will prevail.



Certaily here in blighty there are tighter dog controls and the idylic companion and pet is far more likely to be attainable. However dog ownership as we well know is taken far too lightly with often dire consequences.

To me, dogs are excellent working animals. It is these dogs that offer the real"best friend" status as there is mutual respect, dependance, frienship and benefit. A dog as a mankind accessory so often leads to distress and cruelty to the animal. Regulation with licensing at a cost will better the situation.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
24/10/2011 23:01

WAZ



Yes working dogs are wonderful - particularly Guide and hearing aid dogs. Pity we dont have any here to set an example.



Dogs often give a wonderful service informally - confidence to a lonely and nervous child, security and compansionship to a lonely older or disabled person. I am not deaf but my hearing is poor and I do not always hear someone at the door - the dogs do and if I am at the bottom of the garden and slow responding they come and tell me whether the caller is a friend or stranger.



Training for new owners would help - people adopt animals out of kindness but do not always know how to cope. Charities in the UK check people's suitability and give help and guidance.



There is dog training available privately here but people cannot necessarilyget to the classes - or afford them.



contd......................

Ozangirl


Joined: 03/09/2010
Posts: 145

Message Posted:
24/10/2011 23:23

Maybe I am in the minority, but I like to enjoy walking with my two young children, the only problem is having to endure along the way being threatened by owned dogs and street dogs! I cannot understand why people let their dogs run off freely to bark and growl at passers-by and just watch and look! We now all carry sticks when walking just to protect ourselves, most of the dogs actually belong to people (mainly English believe it or not)! I am not a great dog lover, I wouldn't harm them, but I would also have some respect for other people that are not so fond of dogs! and don't get me started on the amount of people (mainly English again) that walk their dogs along our street as a cut through and let them crap all over the pavements!!!

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
24/10/2011 23:33

WAZ



cont...



Tighter registration is a good idea, but it is not for expatriates (let alone for people who do not even live here) to dicatate.



To add to the financial burden of those who contribute to the community by caring for strays is offensive. We suffer enough already do not be so arrogant as suggest we should carry a heavier burden just save you inconvenience or an unpleasant sight - if you care why do you not not somethng instead of being offensive and hurtful to those who do.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
24/10/2011 23:47

Ozan Girl



I keep my dogs in a garden which is surrounded by high fences and a doubt gate, to keep my dogs in for their protection. It cost a fortunate which I can ill afford and involved sacrificies. Some people just dont have that money however many things they do without.



Three nearby dogs are allowed to roam- unfortunately they are very similar dogs which worries me they may be mistaken for mine - however the three loose dogs are not dangerous unless threatened and they run home if shouted at - just ...........noisy Dont tar everyone with the same brush



I try to ensure that mydogs empty themselves before leaving home. But they like people can be taken short. I was taught to train dogs to do their business in the gutter, but if you have children you know how dangerous the traffic is in Ozankoy to small things. When I bought my house I could walk my dogs downquiet streets and paths without problem for anyone to green spaces where they could run freely.............

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
24/10/2011 23:48

charlotte (lovely name) I think you are in a horrid situation - if I was back there, I couldn't bear to see a dog suffering any more than you, and am sure I would do exactly the same - feeding, watering, cuddling even, if I felt the animal was safe (and clean) enough to let me - but I agree with moxie, for your sake - even if the owner is belligerent (go with someone as your 'wing man') I would say, look - it distresses me so much to see your dog in such dire circumstances, and although I CANNOT and WILL NOT take the animal on, will you please give her the care and attention I have been giving her when I pass. You could threaten to report him (to whom and if it would bother him an iota - who knows) but worth a try...Are the pups with her? What do you suppose he will do with them?

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
25/10/2011 00:06

contd......................



Now I have to risk heavy traffic to get out of my own front door, Ihave myself already been bit by a carless driver, the quiet streets are dangerous for pedestrians with or without dogs, and the green spaces and paths concreted over. I used to enjoy walking with my dogs as you do with your children but my enjoyment has been destroyed by people whose priorieies are cheap villas , swimming pools and vehicles too large for the village. Try to see other people have problems and rights.



As far as nuisance dogs are concerned - a bottle of water to throw at the dogs! (water not the bottle!) - or a water pistol. Less threatening than a stick and will put off most dogs without actually doing any harm! Or skittle pebbles at their feet (not to actually hurt them), Undisciplined dogs can also be a problem for responsible dog walkers with dogs ona lead.



PS type in message above for "doubt" read "double"!

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
25/10/2011 12:49

If the strays were assest when arriving at a rescue, it would be best to put to sleep any dog which wasn't suitable for rehoming.

Then use the neuter and return program.

My vet tells me the expected life span of a dog here is around six years.



So with only those suitable being rehomed it would cut the numbers the rescue have to care for. It would also stop people taking on and dealing with a dog with massive issues.

Neutered and returned dogs would have no more offspring, hence less dogs on the street over time.



Then to microchip all dogs and make owners keep control.



Anyone bringing a dog here should be made to take it home with them.



Vets to stop fixing dogs who clearly have very little chance of a good quality of life. This may sound harsh but in a pack enviroment disabled or sick dogs would have no place.

Ozangirl


Joined: 03/09/2010
Posts: 145

Message Posted:
25/10/2011 14:17

Bizzilizzi, ok, points noted, but I am not suggesting that people buy high expensive fencing to keep their dogs in why not just keep them chained up or inside, why should we have to face dogs racing towards us at every 100 yards or so! My friends child was actually chased along the road when she was on her bike and the dog caught up with her and bit her ankle!!



As to finding places to walk dogs to do "their business", what happened to clearing up after the animals if they get caught short! Most other countries fine people for letting their dogs mess on the streets. If one of my children was caught short whilst out on a walk I most certainly wouldn't leave it for someone else to step into!!!



I am not tarring everyone with the same brush as you have suggested, but merely pointing out that people should act responsibily with their dogs, I have to with my children!



My children cannot even play football outside our own house because of the amount of dog mess around. I PICK IT UP!

moritzkatz


Joined: 27/02/2011
Posts: 69

Message Posted:
25/10/2011 22:29

We no longer live in Cyprus however having traveled the world the dogs of Cyprus are the most friendly we have ever seen they almost always get along with each other and always searching for someone to adopt them and give the a loving home. We re-homed six to Germany and would have homed many more were it not for the expense and Turkish Air not accepting but one dog on a flight. All the dogs we re-homed have made wonderful companions for the families who took them in just as our dog has. We miss life in Cyprus but most of all our two legged and 4 legged friends. Were we to return again I know we would want a larger property to provide a good home for at least 20 strays. However could not see us donating very much to humans who have the ability to help themselves. Actually a cull of humans might be and even better idea

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
25/10/2011 23:37

Ozankoy Girl:



I am afraid it is getting to the stage where anyone with dogs has to have large gardens and high fences to protect the animals - there is so much danger from traffic, poisoning and people who do not understand dogs outside, and as I said before no longer suitable paces to walk them. There is also concisderable danger from children teasing and throwing things at them - I am not saying yours do, but it is often the cause of problemd ogs.



Of course I can keep them inside or chained up - they need to run about. Their and my life is already restricted unreasonably by lack of suitable places for excercise.



As for carrying pooper scoopers and bags, I am lame , a stick in one hand , three dogs in the other , keys, money mobile etc. it a pocket, where do I carry them - my mouth? The amounts deposited by responsibly owned dogs are minimal . Dont penalise us for the others. We dont live in a country which proivdes bins for this purpose - if you want that kind of.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
26/10/2011 00:21

thing maybe you are in the wrong place. Bournemouth for instances satisfies dog owner and dog haters by prescribing hours for dog walking and jproviding bins every 50 yards or so. The Council Tax reflects the amnenity!



It should be possible for dogs to be steered into a gutter or verge in an emergency - not with the irresponsible cars on our village road you cant. Why should these drivers have more rights than me - I dont particularly like their exhaust in my face either!



Yes I hate dog who chase cars, bikes and motorbikes and any responsible owner tried to stop it, but Dogs can be "spooked" by these vehicles, particularly if they dont have the courtesy to give dogs on leads enough space, rev their engines or show fear or cyclists weave about and appear threatening.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
26/10/2011 00:25

Blade: Do hospitals, hospices, nursing homes, and cheap rented accommodation in the UK allow you to keep pets now?

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
26/10/2011 00:29

BizziLizzi. How about a long handled biggish handbag around your neck with a pocket for your keys etc., and the doggy bags and scoop in a plastic bag.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
26/10/2011 00:53

BL.



You clearly feel very deeply about your dogs and for dogs that are left wanting.

Ther is no disgrace at all in this and your intentions are clearlly noble.



My suggestion to introduce burden and licensing is in order to hinder the path experienced by many animals that are deserted , neglected and left for people like you to pick up the pieces.

Keeping , neglecting, desertion and cruelty to animals is just too easy. Make it much much harder and generally it will be the real carers only that will emerge as the responsible animal keepers.



As to carrying weapons such as water pistols or even water scores no goals with me in a defense against unrully roaming dogs.

The problem must be addressed at grass roots level. Ther are too many dogs and too few responsible owners. This ration must be changed drastically.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
26/10/2011 01:22

WAZ There already IS licencing. Resposible owners register thier dogs - irresposible ones dont. Increasing the financial burden would only widen the gap! Water pistols was a suggestion for the kind of nuisance but not visious dogs I see in the village - some individual strays some whose owners dont keep them in - because I suspect I know the dogs that Ozangirl is talking about - and I have tried to remonstrate with their owner and he ended up threatening my dogs. They are a nuisance to me too, but they are a lot better off and less of a problem than true strays.



Packs are a different matter - but I havent seen a pack for years . Is that a matter of area, or as I supsect perception?



But do tell me, those of you who believe in harsh measures to solve the stray problem?? Did you really

come to live here so ignorant of the conditions of the country that you were unaware of the stray dog problem and that it was not really addressed by the authorities. contd........

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
26/10/2011 01:58

Or are you so arrogant that you expected the authorities and people (including long standing expatriates who have taken the trouble to learn and accept, even if not agree local customs) to change their beliefs and customs and incidentally spend a lot of money to change their laws and way of life to suit your convenience and prejudices - incuding some things we do value which are ruined by your efforts to impose an alien culture.



Yes I do care for my dogs, and for all mistreated and neglected animals but actuallly my priorities for donations and support are elderly disabled and neglected humans who get less attention because they are mostly out of sight and mind



What I do for dogs (thougha lot of money for me) is a drop in the ocean. If others too did just a little instead of carping and criticising and making life worse for others, we might make an impact on the ocean.



The handbag idea is just silly and ignorant.



End of subject .

bertieboss


Joined: 22/07/2011
Posts: 149

Message Posted:
26/10/2011 01:58

Nobody mentions the horrendous noise made by both pet and stray dogs.

Stayed in Karaman this year and last and the noise of barking dogs was unbelievable!!

I'm a dog lover by the way but constantly barking dogs are unhappy dogs!!!

flowerfairy


Joined: 17/09/2008
Posts: 1277

Message Posted:
26/10/2011 04:06

bertieboss, I so agree with you, but I live here. I have one nerve now, and a dog barking gets on it.



I don't sleep too well during the night, so as a retired person, I think I may have a 'nap' during the afternoon, no way.. I'm not allowed.... why???????

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
26/10/2011 08:46

well said Bizzilizzi

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
26/10/2011 17:03

When I lived in the UK, I did not have animals because of other commitments. I had a small garden which was my pride joy and comfort in stressful times. It was ruined by cats (strays and owned) using it as a toilet and digging up plants. The also yowled and disturbed my sleep. I could do nothing about it because thelaw regarded cats as wild animals which wander by nature (rather I think as Cypriots regard dogs). I did not demand that cats be killed because they inconvenienced me, even though their excretia on a small patio was a lot more unpleasant than in public places.



Nobody has mentioned the horrendous noise made by cats yowling or by drunken expats returning from the pub, or the English neighbours' grandcildren shouting over my window which keep me awake and are often the cause of dogs barking.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
26/10/2011 17:17

Msg93, Well, our 7 stray cats which we took in as tiny kittens only make a row when they are Hungry,about 5pm, they are all neutered at our expense, the do their business in the sand pit I made for them,and it is easily cleaned,However, the stray/dumped/tagged dogs Crap in my drive and in the road,most of the excreter is crawling with worms . and if their are any in the area at night, bark incessantly...I would take in stray Cats any day over Dogs.........just my opinion you understand...







Rob...life member RSPCA..WSPA.CIWF...

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
26/10/2011 18:00

same shit different island .....unfortunately the mentality is owners.............. not animals !!!

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
26/10/2011 18:56

different Island?

charlotte55


Joined: 14/11/2008
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
26/10/2011 19:42

MsGarnet / Moxie



thanks for the advice He has not been today,

No the pups have never been here when she was first tied up her teats were heavy and hanging and the first night the noise was horrid I thought she was dying but she is ok. I've no idea what goes on with him he owns a bit of land. He does not live where she is....ther is no house - it is a shack- today the noose was so short she could not move much.I have taken down my washing line and gonna use that. It appears he turns up and feeds her sometimes else she would be dead and she has water so its not so bad as some dogs who starve I know.

C

bertieboss


Joined: 22/07/2011
Posts: 149

Message Posted:
27/10/2011 03:27

Message 93 2 wrongs etc!!!!

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
27/10/2011 04:52

charlotte - oh dear - you must be so worried - she will be distraught if she gave birth, and he took the pups or something happened to them - as a mum (and I KNOW she is a dog, but I sincerely feel she will have pined for her pups, know she had been a mum) her hormones and full teats will have caused her misery - one wonders why he keeps her barely alive - why he keeps her at all? Maybe he is keeping her to 'protect' the piece of land? Though tied up as she is - what could she do...I don't know what the answer is...