Has anyone changed their views

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 11:52

For months now,i have banged on and on about a two state solution being the outcome for the long and drawn out talks.But now i am starting to have second thoughts (dont tell Wyn)Are there any more people on here that think that things are starting to change,and re-unification of the island could happen.Or will the outcome be the one that i originally thought it would be,



Paul.

bigbadbob


Joined: 04/08/2010
Posts: 368

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 11:58

One thing is for sure if unification does happen the currency should definitely not be the Eurobecause of the current Greek problems.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 11:59

Unfortunateley bob,it would be after one year,



Paul.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:01

http://famagusta-gazette.com/eroglu-last-chance-for-settlement-in-cyprus-p13406-69.htm



I know it has been said before.But there is only so much mud you can throw,before some of it sticks,



Paul.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:03

Hi Paul



Still might be lots of twists and turns, however......



I think they will find a solution and reunification will happen. The Cypriots cant ignore the deafening noise of the international community to make something happen.

bigbadbob


Joined: 04/08/2010
Posts: 368

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:05

Msg3 Paul the cost of living would go through the roof and also would unification help the property situation with regard to title etc because at the moment I am very wary of purchasing property in TRNC.

Sundance


Joined: 15/07/2010
Posts: 213

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:12

I don,t know if this has been already posted on this forum, has Ban Ki moon made a statement yet on the out come of the New York meeting yet,

If the Greeks end up out of the euro zone and may be out of the EU, and if the south follow suit, where would that leave the ex pats in the south, if its not a EU country they will not have the same rights just to turn up and stay?



Sundance

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:15

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=will-the-cyprus-plane-land-this-time-2011-11-03



Twists,turns,tunnels,tantrums,still all to come Mark.



Who knows what will happen with property bob.That is the thorniest arguement of all.Then theres Famagusta.Then theres Guzelyurt.Then theres,then theres etc,etc,



Paul.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:18

Paul, whatever the outcome, there will be direct flights soon.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:19

Hi Sundance,



Yes he has made a statement re-recent talks.Basically he said that thing have gone well,and the two leaders will re-conviene,in New York in January.As for Greece and Southern Cyprus,when people start talking in trillions.I am afraid it flies right over my bonce.I personally dont think that Greece will drop out.But hey,thats another topic that is already live on here,



Paul.

dvdjohn


Joined: 27/10/2011
Posts: 128

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:23

Newlad, I am beginning to think there could be a solution, but I will not be staying if they force the Euro on the whole of the Island. It seem Germany and France will keep throwing money at the Greeks to stop the Euro failing, we will have to wait till Italy, Portugal's economy fails to see the true outcome of the Euro.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:27

Just around the corner Bill,did tell you though,lol,



Paul.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:29

Good points dvd.Is dvd short for divided island,lol,



Paul.

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:32

As long as direct flights to Cyprus are not armed to the teeth military aircraft following a lust to gain oil territory I will be happy !

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:35

I will drink to that Deputy,



Paul.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:36

I think that ANY form of re-unification if it does happen ,will be brought about by the Gas/OIL bonanza, and not good will or a sudden reversal of inbred hatreds..It will be an engineered re-unification brought about by man's most coveted prise ...MONEY..

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:38

Dont forget the water as well Martin,also very precious these days,



Paul.

bigbadbob


Joined: 04/08/2010
Posts: 368

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:39

I wonder if Turkey will join the Eurozone and if so what happens then.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:45

msg17 Water is precious, and if were not irresponsibly wasted to the extent that it is,a pipe line may not be needed..

Sundance


Joined: 15/07/2010
Posts: 213

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:45

Paul many thanks for that, Ref one of my last posts. it should be amended,



1. Paul



2. Elko



Sundance

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:58

Sundance,



The cheques in the post,



Paul.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 12:59

Not sure Bob we (Britain) thank god have managed to stay out of it,



Paul.

bigbadbob


Joined: 04/08/2010
Posts: 368

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 13:03

Msg22 by the skin of our teeth!!

vonny


Joined: 25/06/2009
Posts: 476

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 13:12

My views have not changed,i still think its not going to happen.even if it was to happen, would the trnc really be better off? If the world was to recognise them and lift the embargos,more people would invest here,but if it uses the euro,people here,living off their bank interest are going to find it tougher to live on,what would you get? 1%?.The people in turkey wanting to join the EU has dropped quite a bit,in my opinion,the EU is in quite a mess at the moment.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 13:13

Or as my mate always says "by the skin on my teeth" bless,



Paul.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 13:15

Vonny,



That really is an understatement of alpine proportions,about the e.u. being in a mess.Lets see what happens Jan 2012,



Paul.

mcstyler


Joined: 15/08/2011
Posts: 205

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 13:16

100 % sooner or later, north cyprus will never be recognised as a country.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 13:21

You been reading your tea leaves Mcstyler,lol,



Paul

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 13:29

The plan has not changed in 30 years. Turkey does not want a united Cyprus. They knew that the BBF will never be acceptable to the GC leadership or the population. There tact has been to get the TCs to accept it so they can blame the GCs for the failure. So either we get similar rights as Taiwan or we actually Joint Turkey. Dengtash did not trust the GCs to refuse BBF so he would not play ball.



The situation is now slightly different.



Chrsitofias realises that this is the end of the road for unification. Judging by the agreement so far, it looks very promissing. The problem we have is that GC population has never been prepared for a compromise so they may refuse what ever agreement is reached, but of course then they will get blamed.



I hope that if it should come to the vote, the GC media treats the pro peace campaigners a little more fairly this time. But of course pigs can fly too, if they tried long enough.

mcstyler


Joined: 15/08/2011
Posts: 205

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 13:30

If it was united there would be far less tea leafs

mcstyler


Joined: 15/08/2011
Posts: 205

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 13:37

In the end turkey have nothing to do with it.



I love the world with a universal love, brothers, sisters, give peace a chance.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 14:01

Sorry Mc,



typo.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 14:22

Surely if USA has something to do with it, people can understand the reason why Turkey will always have something to do with it.



Have you ever tried swimming upstream in the rapids? I suspect not.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 14:45

would unification help the property situation with regard to title etc because at the moment I am very wary of purchasing property in TRNC.







Bigbadbob

It definately would ,though bear in mind the ROC has property problems as well ,but at least in the EU a lot of things that are allowed in trnc ,would be against the law.

The only thing is property prices will go up as when Brits sell they will have to add on the price of their compansation bill to the asking price and although T/C's will not have to pay ,its unlikely when they are selling, that they will sell at a lower price to take account of that.

I have allowed for 1/3rd of purchase price for compensation ,but think it well worth it to legally own the property and have peace of mind.

It would also allow foreigners the chance to buy Turkish title,as under unification all land would be legal and therfore the NC govt would not need to restrict foreigners to buying the 'illegal' trnc title only.



Can only be good.

mcstyler


Joined: 15/08/2011
Posts: 205

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 14:53

I'm not to concerned either way, but it always boils down to what suits individuals best, this is what creates biased opinions. Reality will hit home sooner or later and many bubbles will be burst.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 15:01

Property has not been finalised. Judging by what has been going on at the ECHR and the legal interpretation of Home, the property problem is no longer insolvable. It should not make any difference what nationality the current owner is.



As t is it worth purchasing in the TRNC. Try purchasing in France or Spain to see how stupid their rules are.



Follow some basic steps outlined on this forum and you will have an affordable holiday home.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 15:03

msge 36



"Judging by what has been going on at the ECHR and the legal interpretation of Home, the property problem is no longer insolvable."



Good post

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 15:45

The real question remains, how will my fanatic friends south of the border suffer from once they realise that they have been led up the garden path for 37 years.



I do feel for them.

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 15:49

Well the latest round of talks have finished and we await to see if theres anything to move forward with.

Personally I cannot see anything but a 2 state solution as The TC's will not trust the GC's again and also the Euro is in a state. Big Brother Turkey is doing a grand job in orchestrating things!!

mcstyler


Joined: 15/08/2011
Posts: 205

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 15:56

Last two messages exactly my point.

bigbadbob


Joined: 04/08/2010
Posts: 368

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 17:50

So would you buy a property in the next 12 months or would you rent and put the cash in the bank??

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 17:51

As long as we still have the guarantees then all will be ok.

Agnes


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 81

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 17:52

Has it been proposed that Turkey are to appoint a Governor next year, and what are the ramifications of this situation?

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 18:04

They have agreed on a few things, including the possility that TL would be lrgal in the south for 12 months as Euro would be in the north.

Economy

Security (Demiliterised)

EU

have been agreed.



Property is the strickiest subject but we have the blueprint for it.

Territory is almost there too.



I do believe that it may happen before RoC take over the EU Presidency.



I more hopeful now then before they went to New York.

bigbadbob


Joined: 04/08/2010
Posts: 368

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 18:16

Msg 42 forgive me for being a numpty but what guarantees are you referring to.



Msg44 You refer to the TL being legal tender in the south for 12months and Euro being legal tender in the North for 12 months will the North then become part of Eurozone if of course the puppetmaster (Turkey) would allow this?

Jovial_John


Joined: 31/01/2009
Posts: 1024

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 18:49

Just remember - it isn't what the politicians or the UN think. In the end there will be a referendum in both sides of the island. The expectations of both halves are too high - so if one lot is satisfied it is virtually certain that the other half won't be.

Sorry, but I still can't see it.

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 19:23

Let me throw this one in the mix then,as i havent got a clue what the answer is.What would happen if there was a referendum,on re-unification,and the Greek Cypriots voted no.But the Turkish Cypriots voted yes,would it then go to two seperate states,

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 19:48

msge 47



"...Greek Cypriots voted no. But the Turkish Cypriots voted yes,would it then go to two seperate states"



Even the International community with its bias towards the Greek cypriots would have to concede that two states is the only way forward (not that peoples speaking the Greek language are too popular right now).



It would seem sensible then, that Christofias would inform his people that this is our last chance to vote yes. Its going to be the best deal you are going to get or we get nothing.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 19:52

ps I am assuming the GC's will get a good deal with would include a gain in territory

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 20:11

I have just had a thought



Am I right in thinking that displaced GC's are a minority, in the region of 30% of the population?



If yes, then there is a second question that someone might be able to answer. (If no, then the question below is pointless)



Could it be that the 70% of GC's who were not displaced may prefer to keep their sovereignty and independence rather than make territorial gains?

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 20:31

Re-mess 48,



What if both sides vote no,and is there definiteley going to be a referendum.As i see it, in 2004 the Turkish Cypriots got shat on from a great height,even though they voted yes.So why would they vote yes again,

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 20:55

msge 51



If both sides vote no then I would anticipate two states.



Its a bit trickier though if the TC's vote no and the GC's vote yes. I am not sure how likely this is. You would need to ask the TC's on here about that?

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 21:02

Thanks for the response.What i struggle to get my head around though,is back in 2004,when they had the last vote.The South voted no,but still ended up eating all the candy,

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 21:53

So the North voted Yes back in 2004,and have to live with embargoes.Surely a lot of voters will remember this and vote no this time.Assuming there is a referendum,

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 23:10

Lets hope there is one,after all the whole issue is up to the people of Cyprus to decide upon,



Paul.

HairyPeggy01


Joined: 01/09/2010
Posts: 24

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 05:34

Gordon Brown didn't get much right as Chancellor and PM, but he has my eternal gratitude for not taking the UK into the Eurozone,

Jovial_John


Joined: 31/01/2009
Posts: 1024

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 07:41

Both sides have promised their electorates that there will be a referendum as there was for Annan. Unlike the Blair government and its unfulfilled promise of a referendum over the Lisbon treaty, they are very unlikely to fail to deliver because the Cypriots are much more engaged in politics than the English.

To be fair to the EU they have consistently tried, albeit somewhat half-heartedly, to implement the promises they made in 2004 but South Cyprus, by then an EU member, has consistently used its veto to block all attempts. It is this refusal to allow TRNC to participate in any normal international activity that the North Cypriots are likely to remember when asked if they want to be reunited with their tormentors in the South. Certainly they have never forgotten 1963 and the years that followed, but it is South Cyprus's ongoing malevolance that will convince them that little has changed and there is little future in 'returning to the fold'.

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 08:12

I am more cynical than all of you. In recent years, in any so called democracy, when has there ever been an election/referendum when the outcome was not tainted by fraudulent votes and corruption ? US President's have been elected following dubious collation and counting of votes. In UK there have been numerous obvious frauds fobbed off by "that is a matter for the police" but very little if any action reported subsequently. It seems to be admitted here that many voters withhold their votes until the last minute before deciding who will best grease their palms. I wouln't even try and guess the outcome of anything when it comes to the future of Cyprus indeed anything worldwide at the moment, other than chaos.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 09:06

One significant issue is that the IPC have extended their service for another 2 years. My guess is that there was major pressure for Turkey/TRNC by other 'powers' to do this. And why would that be? My feeling is that the ECHR/EU et al want the property issue out of the way. If it has another two years to run then even if there is a solution then the property issue will appear to have been taken care of.

AJ

Jovial_John


Joined: 31/01/2009
Posts: 1024

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 10:57

I doubt the property issue will have been resolved, but TRNC/Turkey's hand will be much strengthened by the fact that they have had an ECHR/EU approved solution available for 7 years - which is more than South Cyprus can claim. All (except South Cyprus) can reasonably maintain that there is no more property issue if there are no outstanding claims against TRNC/Turkey.

At least in so far as South Cypriot claims against the North - but what a wonderful moment for TRNC citizens to flood ECHR with claims for property in the South.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 11:26

It may be that the International community want the IPC to stay open to give the GC's some sort of ongoing redress. It also sets a precedent for how the property issue will likely be resolved during the negotiations. Closing this door means that the GC's may revert back to using the ECJ (this is the court of the EU, the ECHR has nothing to do with the EU) to solve their disputes, or even worse to use this as the point of reference in the property negotiations between the two sides.



AJ

From what I am hearing in the your post , Turkey would be expected to pay compensation long after a solution has been achieved? Or have I got this wrong?



Can anybody answer my question in message 50?

Jovial_John


Joined: 31/01/2009
Posts: 1024

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 11:59

50/61

Nobody can answer it specifically but my thoughts are that the percentage actually involved is immaterial. Families ties are very strong in Cyprus and nearly every Greek Cypriot has family claiming property in the North - so nearly all will feel aggrieved and want restittution.

Further, all the younger generations have been raised in the belief that Turkey made an unprovoked attack to try and conquer Cyprus and in doing so murdered, raped and pillaged their homeland; their claims to the North are seen as simple restitution of their heritage. So NO, very few Greek Cypriot will sacrifice their territorial claims for the sake of 'peace'.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 12:08

msge 62



Thanks Jovial John



Very very good post indeed. I learnt a lot from this. It makes sense as Cypriots are more family orientated and the youth believe Turkey to be a wanton aggressor.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 13:35

JJ,



Re-mess 62,you hit the nail on the head there.Unfortuaneteley the kids are brainwashed from school.And the two sides to every story isnt wideley spread into the public domain,



Paul.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 13:50

msge 64



Paul, my e-mails to you are bouncing back. Have you forgotten to put money in the metre again?

bertieboss


Joined: 22/07/2011
Posts: 149

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 04:40

Greek Cyprus and Turkish Cyprus could be reunited if you could trust the Greeks - which you cannot!!

And if you ignore the fact that Turkey regards TRNC as a strategic military outpost( as the UK does in the SBAs).

It may have escaped your notice but there are probably as many mainland Turks in TRNC as Cypriots!!

The island will probably remain divided and ex pats of all countries will probably never realise the return on their property investments and will fall foul of changing demands from the government of the day.

Personally I thank providence that I did not buy there several years ago when everything was " wonderful"

I feel dreadfully sorry for the genuine ex pats who retired out there - as I almost did.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 13:33

Mark,



try p.brod31@yahoo.co.uk

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 15:06

Newlad,

i think like you my view of things has changed over time. I have always been a supporter of a united Cyprus.

Where i see this going now is, even if both leaders agree, they have to have a referendum. After last time ,that could go either way. Then even of they agree on both sides i think Turkey will put the boot in and finish things. It has invested far to much here only to loose it all.

A two state solution i don't ever see as happening, nor the recognition of the TRNC. The worst thing i think we could have is , no solution, a Turkish state being declared here and being an ethnic minority under a Turkish goverment. Just think how the Kurds are kept down!

So interesting times ahead.

marks


Joined: 01/11/2011
Posts: 83

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 17:06

I have not changed my mind at all, Turkey will annexe and be damned.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 19:54

Marks the TCs will have something to say about that.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 20:06

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=latest%20news%20on%20cyprus&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CD8QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cyprus-mail.com%2F&ei=8sm2To_sO4qq8QP21JTvBA&usg=AFQjCNH_1jVaNGwsDoqKyWi8o4OVkZUDTA

hameln


Joined: 06/11/2011
Posts: 22

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 20:09

you are correct marks. the deal has already been done. obama wants his missile shield in turkey and the TRNC was the price. Next year this will be south anatolia, it will then have direct flights a huge infrastructure investment program and the TCs that remain here wiil then abide by turkish law or simply leave. 37 years of waste will finally come to an end.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 20:24

Hi blade,



Re-mess 68,which way do you see the referendum going,



Paul.

marks


Joined: 01/11/2011
Posts: 83

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 20:36

hameln Spot on.



Yfred, sadly the TC's won't have a say.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 22:29

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=christofias%20eroglu%20ban%20ki%20moon%20you%20tube&source=web&cd=5&sqi=2&ved=0CDwQtwIwBA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unmultimedia.org%2Ftv%2Funifeed%2Fd%2F18816.html&ei=De22TsKSPMfX8QOPtPmLBQ&usg=AFQjCNGmIQNWpCPqG8-cpNSJZABMrjBqYA

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
07/11/2011 13:36

Hi newlad,

I don't have a clue.

Listening to people on both sides i hear support from this side but in the south i am not so sure.

I think that last speach of Erdogan when he visited the TRNC gave them a good idea of his true level. I also hear that they have been trying for years to sort this and don't belive it will happen under the current president. They had much more confidence in Talat. But never say never, this is Cyprus and anything is possible!

mcstyler


Joined: 15/08/2011
Posts: 205

Message Posted:
07/11/2011 13:43

sooner or later it will be one island in the eu, i bet my life on it.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
07/11/2011 14:00

Firestarter



'They had much more confidence in Talat'



Who did? certainly not Cypriot Turks as they all thought that Talat was selling them down the street hence Eroglu winning the election. Every CT that I have spoken to has said that Talat was too soft.

AJ

mcstyler


Joined: 15/08/2011
Posts: 205

Message Posted:
07/11/2011 14:11

aj



I find it helps to talk to the turkish cypriots.

mcstyler


Joined: 15/08/2011
Posts: 205

Message Posted:
07/11/2011 14:16

Would you like to meet my nan she is a 91 year old cypriot who has lived there all her life.

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
07/11/2011 14:22

Does it matter who is in charge of Northern Cyprus.After all they are only puppets of the motherland,

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
07/11/2011 20:32

Re mess 76 Blade,



I can only see the South voting no in a referendum,



Paul.