solidarity 2

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 19:07

We can now sign the orams petition at the HBPG website

http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/



I have just signed. Please inform us through this post that you have also signed it.

Lets keep bumping it up

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 19:18

I've signed and I've sent a link to friends/relatives.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 19:22

Excellent Donna

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 19:23

on the case my fellow posters

B&BLondon


Joined: 31/01/2007
Posts: 64

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 19:35

have signed

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 21:48

signed a while ago now.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 22:16

anyone know when is the final ruling is on this case.

dobbo



Joined: 13/06/2007
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
25/10/2007 00:46

another recruit !

truffles808


Joined: 16/10/2007
Posts: 183

Message Posted:
25/10/2007 00:50

Also done. Jo

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
25/10/2007 00:52

mission accomplished

cressy


Joined: 01/10/2007
Posts: 36

Message Posted:
25/10/2007 01:15

signed it.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
25/10/2007 12:57

Put my "John Hancock" on the petition. (only takes a few seconds)



We need all on the forum to sign the "Orams" petition, they need our backing.



We all stand to benefit from their struggle.



Good luck to them and thanks.



P.



Drizzly grey morning in London.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
25/10/2007 13:28

Yeah, come on everybody get signing. Well done to those who have already.



You are right Tiggy we can all benefit from this. We need the solution to be administered through the property commission not through the courts.



It's very grey and miserable in London today - yuck

grahamlil


Joined: 10/10/2007
Posts: 143

Message Posted:
25/10/2007 15:44

Have signed and left a comment

livethedream


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
25/10/2007 15:49

Just signed.



Lovely hot sunny day here in TRNC - sorry!

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
25/10/2007 16:18

Grrrr! (jealous me)



Raining heavy and very dull here in Kensington & Chelsea (work)



We need more petitioner's....come on everybody.

suntanman



Joined: 18/04/2007
Posts: 721

Message Posted:
25/10/2007 17:24

Job done

Another signature on the list

(raining and dull here too in South Yorks)

lovelife


Joined: 07/07/2007
Posts: 231

Message Posted:
25/10/2007 20:34

Just signed

TONIP


Joined: 13/08/2007
Posts: 18

Message Posted:
25/10/2007 20:58

have also just signed

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
26/10/2007 10:25

bumping it up

Harvey


Joined: 01/10/2007
Posts: 40

Message Posted:
26/10/2007 11:27

Signed when it was first posted.

Marvo


Joined: 30/04/2007
Posts: 194

Message Posted:
26/10/2007 12:28

Hi all, is this confusing or am I just being thick.



The first post Solidarity I just remember signing and now we have another one Solidarity 2. Are they the same ? do we have to sign both ?.



Surely if we have 2 petitions and they are signed by the same people, then the mandarins that eventually read these will see the duplication.



Is it not wiser to have all the signatures on the one petition, this then eliminates any future claim by the GC that the numbers have been massaged and duplicated and whole petition is inherently flawed.



Regards Marvo

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
26/10/2007 13:11

Hi Marvo



I don't recall the other petition. This one is the official petition constructed by the Orams themselves and is the only one that needs signing.

Marvo


Joined: 30/04/2007
Posts: 194

Message Posted:
26/10/2007 13:37

Sorry ILC



I've just checked back, the petition i signed was under the forum heading Solidarity (initially discussing the Orams case). The petition was added later, but the petition was for 'direct flights to TRNC'.

I must have got my wires crossed here, maybe it's an age thing. I think I'll try hijacking this thread and start a petition for free dementia checks for the aged.

I'll get on and sign it now, before i forget.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
26/10/2007 14:33

Keep taking the pills and afternoon naps Marvo. You'll be fine

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
26/10/2007 22:38

can i have one of your tablets marvo could do with a buzz.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
27/10/2007 17:32

Bump it up

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
29/10/2007 10:56

bump it up

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
30/10/2007 17:35

Just done it



MC

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
01/11/2007 00:24

when is the case finally heard .

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
05/11/2007 17:47

I see the petition is up to 500, however it has turned in to a bit of a farce as there are many duplicates and some Btits on the south side defending the GC's.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
07/11/2007 14:39

The Orams petition is growing

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
08/11/2007 10:52

I've signed and passed this on to friends.



Regards

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/11/2007 14:01

over 700 entries, with some very interesting comments made.

Any comments on the comments? Some people now regret buying Esdeger land

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/11/2007 14:33

This was added as comments to the petition by a British gentlemen



"I bought a property on pre-1974 Turkish title deeds. Any fellow brit who has bought disputed property deserves to be taken to court by Greek cypriots because it is still Greek cypriot land. When you try to buy cheap property in the full knowledge that it is still disputed, you deserve everything you get. It's time to pay the ferryman for the Orams and all the other expats who are sitting in disputed property deserve to be hauled through the courts for trying to pull a fast one. The 'good faith' excuse cannot be a defence in law because the warnings of buying disputed property was so obvious to all. in fact, the judge in the Orams case ruled in favour of the Orams because of the acquis of the EU being suspended in the north NOT because of the pathetic 'good faith' defence. Wake up and smell the coffee expats in disputed property, sooner or later, it will be time to pay the ferryman for all of you.... "

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
12/11/2007 14:48

Sounds like a delightful fellow ! do you really think he is british or is he commenting under an assumed name ????

regards simbas

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
12/11/2007 16:26

hi mark

reply to this so called british man who must know everything about the whole cyprus situation to sell his house in the north and go and buy a over inflated property in the south of a greek who probabley stole their land or house of a turk origianally because of course these properties are not disputed and tell him to first learn the facts before commenting on people who he thinks that are trying to pull a fast one by buying cheap in the north not because they have fallen in love with the real cyprus the k.k.t.c

i hate these kind of people know it all brit (thats if he is a brit) and not a greek in disguise

regards to all who really love the north and the people who live and own houses there

ukturk

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/11/2007 17:03

Hi Guys



I am sure he is a Brit. It is likley to be our old friend Scaramanga. He has bought a Turkish title in the North and is only too pleased to attack those buying Esdeger land.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
12/11/2007 17:36

Who is Scaramanga ? i assume thats not his member name . did he belong to this forum at some point ----- simbas

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
12/11/2007 19:13

No, you don't want him to belong to this forum. He owns and lives or rents a house in the TRNC yet he criticises everything the TRNC does including the exchange land system; he doesn't even acknowledge the existence of the TRNC. This to my mind makes him a hypocrite.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
12/11/2007 19:29

What the dicken's is he doing there and why does he stay there, it really does make one wonder what kind of agenda he has , and to continue to live in a place with so much abhoration really does allude me.

regards simbas

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/11/2007 19:59

Can someone tell me how to view these comments please? I signed in person when the Orams gave their talk at the hbpg and although I have visited the petition I didn't notice a comment section.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/11/2007 21:29

Hi Bradus



If you go in to the petition, you will find three tabs at the top. If you click on the middle tab called signatures it will take you in to the comments section.



How was your trip to Cyprus? Looks like you picked a great time with the weather.



How did the orams talk go at the hbpg meeting? How were they? What did they have to say? What is the next part of the process for them? Do they feel they will win?



Sorry for all the questions Bradus

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/11/2007 23:07

Hi ilovecyprus,

Excellent holiday, weather great and pleased with progress on apartment.Oram's interesting but only from the viewpoint of them sharing their experience with a step by step account of what happened and what they have experieced. Seemed a lovely couple who despite all that has happened and the stress and trauma were very upbeat. It would appear they have financial backing (legal bill for last round was £900,000 and they had already spent £80,000 of their own money) this required that they could not disclose who their backers were and they fielded of some of the questions and I got the impression that they could not divulge or share their opinions on things like outcomes or the politics of it all. What was interesting was finding out that the EC of J and HR is not like an ordinary court, there could be 13 to 37 judges ruling on this case and because this case has ramifications for most of displaced Europe, it is likely to have the full sitting of 37 judges! Claims could go back to the turn of the century! It may be seven years before any decision is made. Who knows what might have happened by then? Hope when it does finally reach court they simply tell Mr. Pappawhatever to go to the immovable property commission.

Sue

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/11/2007 23:32

Hi Sue



Thanks for answering the questions. I am glad your apartment is shaping up the way you want it. When do you get the keys?



Wow, potentailly seven years and 37 judges. So it looks like Cyprus is being included in one big job lot. This is a big old job, and back to the turn of the century. I was talking to a Hungarian girl today. She was telling me about Romania, that large parts of it including Transelvania are actually Hungarian. If they are going back to the century they will be looking at the Armenians, Kosovans, Finnish land etc. If they allow all displaced people back to their lands it is going to be an absolute mess. Eastern Europe was ripped apart with the dismantling of empires in to Nation states.

I think it will be absolute madness if they turn back the clock.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/11/2007 23:35

ps also interesting about the backers. I wonder who that is. I wonder if that is Turkey or an individual benefactor. Couldn't see it being the UK government. Guess we will never know.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
13/11/2007 01:32

Yes ILC I have been guessing as to who it would be ever since the Oram's gave their talk. It has to be the people who would benefit most from seeing Orams win. With the sort of money involved it has also got to be someone prepared to see this to the end no matter what the cost and someone who stands to loose big style if the verdict goes against the Orams. Don't think any building contractors have this sort of dosh so my guess is its Turkey Government.However it is only a guess. Another interesting thing to come out of the meeting was a buyer asking what action to take because GC's kept turning up and telling him that he was on their land and taking photos. Apparently there is a telephone number you can ring to report this sort of thing and the TC police will then stop those responsible at the border.Next over in Cyprus at Easter should have keys by then.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
13/11/2007 06:13

Yes it interesting who is aiding the Oram's ! i do know that Hassan Vahip who is the managing director of troy lake and who also happens to be a lawyer was working on the case with Cherie Blair.But i dont know if that is still the case .

regards simbas

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/11/2007 10:55

Blimey Bradus, that's the last thing you want, a bunch of GC's turning up and intimidating you. I wonder if it is pure pressure or they are preparing a master plan. Do you know where this took place?



I bet you can't wait for Easter. That will soon come around. It will be nice and warm then too.

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
13/11/2007 11:18

Hi all,



I have heard a few stories similar to this- They are targeting individual owners in quieter locations!

As they wouldnt dare turn up to a big development and start knocking on everyones door to do this- they wouldnt dare!!



As far as Im aware the GCs are still not aloud to turn up and demand their property back- contact the trnc police to deal with it !!!!



Dont let the GCs intimidate you and bully you!!!



Take care-D

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/11/2007 13:02

Hi davidoff



It almost sounds like a coordinated effort by the GC's. I am presuming that this isn't the case?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
13/11/2007 23:57

Did say this was just one person experiencing this. Wouldn't think it was a co-ordinated effort as there was alot of people there and only one buyer stated this had happened. The buyer also did not use the word intmidated, just that the GC family had let him know it was their property and photos had been taken. What action should he take?

I do not want people to get carried away with this because I think its rare and there are also reports that some of the GC's that have turned up have chatted and been very friendly with the owners despite all. So I truely believe that it is not always a case of bullying and intimidation. Please keep an open mind. Know what to do if this should happen but lets not get carried away.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
14/11/2007 11:06

Yeah, you are right Bradus

legin


Joined: 15/11/2007
Posts: 105

Message Posted:
15/11/2007 20:26

Just signed



legin

sheraton


Joined: 28/09/2007
Posts: 4

Message Posted:
15/11/2007 20:58

just signed

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/11/2007 16:21

If you have signed anonymously, perhaps you will go back and enter your full name. This will give more credence to the petition. Seems to me that adding comments are also useful and empowering

As you will see many names have been entered, so, there now increasingly seems to be safety in numbers.

As a guess, it seems like about 500 people have entered their name.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
29/11/2007 11:23

signature 1045. Is this person part of the Estate agency. If so, strange comment to make. If not, then I guess it is reasonable

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
24/12/2007 13:51

I feel the guy is spot on apart from petitioning in the UK. That would be a complete waste of time - signature 1169. Also very amusing post.



"Thanks for your support Sally. I think some people have bever heard of the term 'freedom of speech'. My messages have exposed their laziness and their conscience weighs heavy on their mind. They have to remove all messages which makes them feel bad about themselves, they feel uneasy about the Oram's case but they won't get out of their sweaty pits to raise awareness and drum up support by getting REAL signatures on the streets, they prefer to sit in their sweaty pits and conduct 'internet petitions' which are useless. That's why they removed my messages, they are frightened of the truth and being exposed for the lazy buggers they are.. It's funny how they allow messages with abusive language....Anyway, here's my original message: Lin, why did you erase my message? Touched a nerve did i? Why didn't you also remove the following message which is much worse than mine: "fucking greeks wont be happy until theres no turkish cypriots left on the island." At least my message didn't have any abusive language. But I did tell a few home truths that you just can't handle, such as: 1. You're too lazy to get up off your lazy arses to conduct a REAL petition gathering REAL signatures on the streets. 2. This internet petition is NULL and VOID because of duplication and fictitious names. 3. Politicians and power-brokers will NEVER take anonymous internet petitions seriously. 4. There are too few signatories to this petition to be taken seriously. A measly thousand bogus signatures will hold no sway whatsoever. 5. This internet petition holds absolutely no value because the names cannot be cross-referenced with any addresses. This petition holds no sway in the European Court who will ultimately decide the fate of the Orams and us. 6. Get off your fat arses and hand out leaflets and ask for signatures on the streets of London, Birmingham, Girne etc like i've done, instead of trying to influence the European Courts with futile internet petitions whilst sitting on your ample behinds. Get organised, contact Embargoed!, ask for leaflets to hand out, do some REAL work on the streets of London, get signatures from REAL people with REAL addresses. There'll be a lot of people out and about at Xmas time, you'll be able to gather thousands of signatures in one weekend instead of the pathetic amount you've gained so far in 3 months on the internet while sitting on your behind. 7. if you really want to support the orams and safeguard our property rights you have to be prepared to work for it so Get up off your fat, lazy arses and do something about it."

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
31/12/2007 13:13

I wrote the following on another forum and I thought I would add it here:



You have to belief with every fibre of your being that the property you have in NC is truly yours. You must belief that you own it and no one can take it away from you.

Those who oppose this will try and undermine that belief at every opportunity, to create doubt and to instill a sense of guilt. You absolutely must ignore what they say.

Why is this so true? Lessons from biology - In a fight over territory a smaller butterfly will always beat off a larger butterfly, should it be known that the territory belongs to the smaller butterfly. Through observations of baboons the same outcome has been shown to play out. The smaller baboon will wrestle that territory from the larger baboon, if they both know the land belongs to the smaller baboon.



If you absolutely belief the property is yours and that you are determned to keep it, then this law of nature will work for you. If you have doubts, at worst you will not sign the petition and at best you will sign it anonymously. You will also probably buckle at the slightest attempts to take it away from you.



Stay strong, cherish your property, love it, nurture it, really make it your own, adorn it, embellish it, stamp your mark on it, consistently invite friends in to it share and enjoy your home and it is more likley to stay yours, because when the crunch comes you will fight for it.

Sign the petition, make an open statement that you intend to keep it.







It is likley that the above statement will be challenged by those with an opposing view. I have been drawn in to many arguments on these forums and I have noticed at a certain stage in the debate I am likely to get extremely frustrated. This frustration stems from the massive limitation of forums in the context of debating. In most circumstances, neither of the two parties has the power to negotiate a settlement, which is what most mature adults would aim towards. Not having this power is the real issue, which means that I and that other often furiously try and win points, celebrating the small wins and ranting at the small loses. At some point I have noticed this frustration turning to anger, and at this point my aim becomes to attack the others personal charachter. This is a no win game. I have just added this last peice as a personal observation.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
31/12/2007 19:15

sorry the word 'belief' should have been 'believe' more often than not in my last post

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
31/12/2007 21:43

You have to believe with every fibre of your being that the property you have in NC is truly yours. You must believe that you own it and no one can take it away from you.



Just like the GC's do?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
02/01/2008 15:34

Our stance and views on this iare going to be different Bradus. We have different tiltles.