amnesty 2011 will there be one ?

bob1938


Joined: 01/12/2010
Posts: 20

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 08:12

Now that the census has been carried out will there now be an amnesty for those who are here

illegally

Is there any official news

and what proceedures would be needed ????

Ozbey


Joined: 04/03/2009
Posts: 304

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 08:37

I hope not.

Illegal immigrants should be fined and deported.

Those who chose to ignore the laws and regulations should face the consequences.

Deniz1


Joined: 28/07/2009
Posts: 3829

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 08:50

If they matched up the ins and outs with the work permit figures its easy to see who is illegal. Find them and send them back. I know some them and they hide in another room on census day and the legal answers the questions.

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 09:06

I agree with Ozbey. (even thogh he called me old)



We could all just do the amnestys and not be legal.



One of our friends did over 4 years here worked constantly, thne left on a 1200 lira amnesty,



It worked out cheaper than than residency, and he avoided all the hassle.



Sorry, but about time they sort this illeagl crap out.

sylvie


Joined: 12/03/2008
Posts: 1081

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 09:50

i can accept amnistry for fines when not paid but for been illegal no, it would make people to work with no security and i blame the employer taking them, they are the one who must be fined as well -

cyprusman3



Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 297

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 10:25

here was an amnesty which went through yesterday so everyone is legal as of today for the next 30 days

stellasstar1



Joined: 02/07/2008
Posts: 1519

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 10:59

According to my Cypriot friend it was on Turkish news this morning that there will be an amnesty, and people have to go within 16 days from now and pay a fine of either 1.300.00 lira or 1,600.00, I've forgotten how much she said now.

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 11:22

Incorrect info folks,

The amnesty is as follows, any person who is ilegal in TRNC has up to 60 days to leave the country without paying penny a single penny.If they return back withing the 60 day time frame they will only be given 30 days visitors visa and fined 1300TL.

This also applies to people who left the country without paying the fine, they will be allowed back into the country with the same fee and 30 days.

Only if they fall back into illegal status again then they will be fined the 1300TL and kicked out. After the 60 day the Goverment will take tougher measures against those who are illegal



another words,the goverment who failed tointorude the White and Green ID card system back in June, will soon allow these people to become a TRNC citizen, another ploy from R.O.T. What is this goverment playing at, they must be the thickest stupist goverment this country has ever had.

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 11:28

another words,the goverment who failed to introduce the White and Green ID card system back in June, will soon allow these people to become a TRNC citizen, another ploy from R.O.T. What is this goverment playing at, they must be the thickest stupist goverment this country has ever had.



They will leave the country taking the cash with them, then the companies will file for a work permit for them and they will all be back in again through the back door.



there are people out theur that have been illegal in this country for over 8-10 years and they will just walk free not a single penny tax on their earning and yet we will let them back in again as legal employees next time.



The Goverment has gone mad.

Ozbey


Joined: 04/03/2009
Posts: 304

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 11:37

Erkin,

So if an illegal immigrant leaves during the 60 days of the amnesty he is not fined.

Are you saying that if he returns, at any future date, he will be fined at point of entry and only given 30 day visa?

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 11:42

yep that is what i am saying. just read the Kibris post and allthe other newspapers.



the goverment has gone mad

stellasstar1



Joined: 02/07/2008
Posts: 1519

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 17:39

Sorry if I gave the wrong info, was just reporting what my cypriot friend said she heard this morning.

rejela


Joined: 09/02/2011
Posts: 293

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 22:45

Message 11 Erkin.



Please can you give a link please.



thanks.

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 01:31

And what about the rumour that these illegals will be granted amnesty AND be allowed to become citizens? what does anyone know about that. If it is true, can't I be given citizenship as well. strangely enough I WANT to pay my taxes, and I WANT to vote and i WANT TO feel I am really wnated and belong. Bet most of the 'illegal ' workers don't. They are here to work because there isno work back 'home'.

it is all a bit confusing and a bit of a mess, methinks.

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 04:57

Does that mean your 'journalistic work' is illegal?



I remember well. that even if you do work that should be paid or could be carried out by an entitled person then you are in breach of the work permit regulations.



The entertainers had that problem some time ago I presume it also applies to other professions.

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 07:06

msg 13,



the link : http://www.kibrisgazetesi.com/popup.php/cat/2/news/129510/PageName/Ic_Haberler



in Turkish Kibris newspaper.



Marion: No there are no rumours of the illegal immigrants being granted citizenship, Tha White and Green ID cards was ditched back in June after the Tc petioned the Goverment with the objections.



This amnesty is to get illegal workers only to leave the country and come back as legal workers, as after after the 60 day expires the Goverment is intending to crack down on illegal workers with high fines to the employer and the employee.



This applies to anyone that is working without a work permit, if you are getting paid for any job, you do require a work permit. not just mainlanders.

steps426


Joined: 05/12/2011
Posts: 108

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 08:10

Does this goverment know anything, they seem to make it up as they go along you coudnt write it really !!

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 08:15

Erkin, "What is this goverment playing at, they must be the thickest stupist goverment this country has ever had."

Are you really a teacher of English?

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 08:24

msg 18: Why do you need to know that?



Yes I am.

Wiser


Joined: 30/07/2008
Posts: 796

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 08:44

I would like to point out as this has happened to me in the past that when you work here you are issued a work permit and the employer deducts money to pay your social sigorta. When it came time to renew my work permit it transpired that the employer had infact not been paying my social sigorta and the only way to get my work permit was to pay for the whole lot again. I did not have the funds to do so and therefore became illegal. This is a couple of years ago and I relied on a amnesty to be able to pay a fine which was less than the two months outstanding and enabled me to become legal again. So you see it is not always the individuals fault that they are illegal and I do not think you should be so quick to judge as this is common practice to this day! it is wrong the employees should be held accountable but unfortunately thats the way it goes!

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 09:00

Surely the employer gives you a pay check showing deductions etc if they don't insist on one then you can prove that you have paid tax NI etc.



Just think when 'the pig flys by' and there is an agreement and we become part of Europe all the posibility that will be opened.

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 09:03

yes but this amnesty isn't about people who have works permits or their employees not paying the tax or N.I.



At present there are over 80,000 people in TRNC that have entered as Tourist and have overstayed and working without permits.



what the goverment is trying to do, is to get this people to leave without causing to much harm in relations between TRNC and Turkey.

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 09:36

Maybe I am wrong, normally am, but this looks like the TRNC Government trying to sort itself out without giving Turkey any cause to complain. It all seems to be about getting the illegal Turkish works legal again without really a thought to anyone else. There must be thousands of other nationalities working and living in the TRNC that are also illegal as well?



I can understand the Government wanting to sort it out but can not see that this exercise and amnesty will actually achieve anything apart from cost the tax payer more. You may loose a few illegal workers but honestly - where are the 80,000 people quoted above going to go back to anyway? They are here because this is where the work is and to leave for 60 days means no money for 60 days as well - hard!

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 09:44

It will be the 3rd or 4th amnesty... many got caught, fined and deported... but many have a cousin who replaces them. If you make access into a country that easy (mainly for political reasons.. not to "upset" Turkey), if there is no efficient "task force" for checks of working places, no employee checks... nothing will change.

"Private" people come as a "tourist" and just dive or eg 3 to 20! workers are sent from TR companies to do a 14-30 days job!

Even if TRNC companies file for a working permit.. after 3 month the employee might signs them out, saving 500 to 700 TL a month (the workers might not even know) and keep them in the job. Or.. they are sacked, nearly flat and now in need to "take their chances"... here we are.. they are illegal. Nobody really cares, in all cases they work cheap and without receips and VAT (Cyp44: "..reliable and cheap gardener/worker needed.. ".. or.. ".. very expensive.." )

You may think, how YOU might support illegal employment

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 09:47

This isn't just about Turkish illegal workers, this applies to all, Brirish, Russian what ever you nationality is, if you are here and do not have the correct paperwork then you are illegal worker/over stayer what ever you want to call it.



I do not agree that these or any person who is here illegally should be just waved good bye, Heavy fines should be imposed both on the worker and the employer, then the person should be kicked out and banned from re-entering TRNC for at least 5 years.



if they try and get back in again then the fines should be doubled each time.



No Mercy should be given to anyone cread colour or nationality.

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 10:51

Erkin, we have or had these heavy fines. 65 lira for each day overrun, if you cannot pay, leave.. but pay double on return. And, did it help?

Charge whatever you want.. they cannot pay. No wonder if you have to work for 50-70 lira a day, working eg for "a friend" who also is illegal!

There are all nationalities involved, Erkin. But, dont forget.. also the TRNC citizens are big supporters of black labour. This "fatura istemem behaviour" (i dont want receipt) always indicates that somebody does not want to pay in full .. "indirim varmi? " attempts (is there a "reduction"?) put the workers and companies under pressure and often these "new" prices cannot be achieved with "official work". There is a fine of 125 lira for each receipt not written. When I see how many difficulties I have TO GET a receipt, I only can guess how many (TRNC) businesses are controlled or not even properly registered.

The society supports black labour.

BoTanica


Joined: 22/12/2009
Posts: 714

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 11:12

What about all the handymen and gardeners though (for instance)? They do not have a legal "employer" to penalise do they? The employer fine couldn't be applied to the (say) 20 or so people who "employ" them once or twice a month could it? It is a very tricky situation, and not easily solved. Would you ask to see the work permit (or have you) of your gardener or window cleaner?

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 11:25

Yes I agree that socierty supports black labour, but if everyone strays away from not paying taxes, we we will for ever be in need of cash from Turkey, 2 wrongs do make it right,



You say that peopel can not afford to pay the fines, but yet the very people who come and work here from mainland end up building a very nice home back in Turkey.



Well it is about time the goverment took steps to ensure that businesses are coontrolled and pay their dues.



I find it stupid that,when we go shopping in the TRNC we always try and get a discount and not bother with reciepts but yet hundred of people cross to the south for shopping and are quite happy to take a receipt, so how come we can do in one side and not the other?



Yes, we are a tupid nation when we can see from the computer the same person entering the country dozens of times in a year and yet we still grant them entry.

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 11:54

As botanica (mrb Hasan, nasilsin, her sey yollundami?) said: The society are also the citizens. At least you could ask your gardener about his status, you could ask for a receipt. Why not, THAT is not illegal, actually you have to, as you too have to pay the 125 Lira fine!

nonono, Erkin, the vast majority of the, often very young, illegal workers transfer their money to support the family: Mum broke her leg, sister must be married, school money for the brother.. often they are not permitted to keep a single Lira for themselfes.

In the south the receipt subject now is "automised and controlled". The fines are heavy and you can get prepared to be tax inspected next day. Go out in North Cyprus, you will get your 300 lira restaurant receipt written on the back side of a piece of paper.. get a plumber and he "forgot" his receipt block.. go into a garage and you can pick up your receipt next day (pay 16% on top of the bill), as he has to "get it" wherever from..its a mess.

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 11:55

Erkin - Msg 25 - agree totally! Msg 28 - Until all the computers in the Government are connected to either a central system or to each other, then they will remain what they are, just a handy way of storing information without cutting down the trees! Do not think that this situation is restricted to TRNC, in the UK there is the facility to easily have interconnected systems or at the very least local access points in each Government department, where access to other Government departments could be easily controlled by simple security systems - but it will never happen - (NHS)!



Knowledge is power they say and provided that I have the knowledge and never allow others to gain access to that knowledge then I will always be in need and never out of a job! You are not a stupid nation at all you are simply a nation that has made the same mistake as every other nation - you have allowed the departments that are there to serve you to rule you instead - it will be slow and hard to recove

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 14:20

Waddo, whilst what you state is perfectly feasible it is not allowed under UK or EU law. The Data Protection Act provides that data collected by authorities for one purpose may not be shared with others for a purpose for which it was not directly and specifically collected. This may seem a bit daft until you realise how much information could be bandied about between different Government institutions and abused.

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 15:11

oh thanks, groucho.. i was just about to write something like.. " "1984" cannot be the answer". there is also the right of "free travel".. many people come several times a year to Cyprus and behave legal. So, solutions must come from "inside the society".

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 15:18

Groucho, as previously the DPO for my establishment, I hate it with a total passion! It is the most cumbersome and usless piece of legislation ever to be foisted upon the UK and no doubt dreamed up by a commitee of people who had no idea about security whatsoever - personal opinion that is! However, having had my rant, I did say that data access could easily be controlled by simple security systems and I stick by that still - for over 40 years communications and information security was my byword. I quite agree that information can be abused, you only have to look at bank records to see that, but the same information is always used by many different institutions and this leads most people back to the question of "Why you always have to give your birthday and other similar items"?



Passport number/National Insurance number/Driving License number/DOB/Sex(gender)/Birthday-Place/Mothers name/Fathers name/etc, etc - the list is endless of items that all institutions can share!!!!

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 15:42

Just to make this plain - so that 1984 is not on anyones mind (HP240923) - I would never propose that a single stored database of information be readily accessable to all and sundry just because they worked in a Government department. However, it would be nice if departments of the same institution, such as the NHS, had been able to talk to each other and communicate rapidly the data they all required, it would have saved billions of tax payers money if only the people who had to use the system were first trained in its use and then "had" to use it - as it is, the system design was faulted (although not as badly as DII) and doomed to failure once the contractors had made their profits from its part installation - no, I did not work on it!



Whilst I know that DPA includes all types of data, including paperwork, tell me that a form you fill in once in one department is only ever used in that department and never passed on to another - and I will support DPA to the death!!

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 16:10

I just wanted to mention... that after databases once were introduced, its use could be quick a misuse. And reinstallement of rights are more difficult as taking them away...

This comment was given from a toner cardridge (yellow)

jardap


Joined: 08/08/2008
Posts: 318

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 16:16

If previous employers have not kept Sigorta payments up to date,can they be forced to do so ?.

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 16:23

Ahhh Kibsolar, so true. A database full of statistics is a wonderful thing that can be manipulated to give you exactly what you want to see. Lies, damn lies and statistics springs to mind - as do words like amnesty, census, receipts, invoices and of course Income Tax!!



At least it is a start (again) and a try to get things right (again) and it keeps people in work (again) but I do feel sorry for those caught up in ever changing legislation, but not for those who intentionally attempt to cheat the system.



I can only hope that this time there is a "system" put in place that is not only understandable by all nationalities but also workable and sustainable. Sorry, got to go now, just seen Noel Baba fly past the house protected by his squadron of pigs..........................

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 16:25

yes and no, its complicated. Eg, Employers choose dates clever, eg they withdraw from sigorta payments just before a bayram. The worker goes for holiday and the employer can prove the he left the country and re-entered "on his own". Of course he can enter without problems as he has the working permit stamped. The workers often do not even realise that they are illegal.

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 16:53

Questions: Is the work permit a two edged sword? An employee can not get a permit unless he/she has an employer? Once an employer employs, then is the employee is legal? Is the employee illegal if the employer fails to pay the sigorta? Has the employee any record of sigorta payments? If the employee goes on holiday and leaves the Island then he/she is no longer employed? When the employee - complete with work permit - returns from holiday, are they still legal if they return to work with the original employer? Are they illegal if they find another (different) employer and works for them without getting a new work permit?



It is a maze for sure and I am not surprised that some workers do not know they are illegal - but only if this is their first time working here, after that they should be aware of all the regulations. A bit like us expats have to find out for ourselves when/if/why we need residency.

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 23:38

waddo, sorry, i was out.. one question after the other: .first one...(edged sword?) sure. 2: yes. 3: yes, 4: no, but the employee could officially withdraw from paying (announce that worker does not work any more with him) 5: yes, 6: he continues to be employed 7: yes 8: no, but he has to be official registered with the new employer.

A work permit is only given for a certain job at a certain employer. a foreigner comes to find a job, visa 14-90 days. when they found a job, the new employer has to get a "ön izin", a pre-permission; the new workforce has to leave the island, then enter again, start work and apply for a proper work permit. this is given for a year, the name of company noted in the passport! if they are sacked (withdrawn from insurance) the worker has to leave the island within 14 days or a month (rules sometimes changing). If they dont, they are illegal. during this 14 days they can try to find another employer, story start from beginning.

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 23:52

cont

"after the first time.." as you mentioned, they are very much aware that they are "in the hands" of the employer.. and if something goes wrong, they (latest after the second time) simply dont care any more and try everything just to earn some money and become illegal.

all this travelling, apply for a TC passport regulary ( for a work permit you need this, not just ID card..), health tests.. and so on, is quite expensive!

Part of a solution here would be to strenghten the rights of all the foreign workers!, how can you sue your employer for not paying the insurance in 14 days till you must leave the island?, especially if you have no funds? and where to go?, police? there is no contact point or helpline available!

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 10:06

kibsolar, I knew it was a rats nest but never realized it was so bad and we (expats) moan about residency which in comparison is so simple! 1. I thought that there were two types of sigorta - one that paid for social security things and the other that paid for a pension? 2. Also that the pension part could be claimed back by the employee if they were sacked? 3. If the employee left of their own account, then they had to wait for six months before they could claim but could claim immediately if sacked? 4. Is the "on izin" so that local workers can also apply for the vacant job? Sorry for the questions but interested - not looking for work or being an employer, just trying to understand.



Last one - what is a TC passport regulary?



The quick answer must be that unless you have a job offer (written contract) complete with "on izin" then you should not be allowed entry. Entry for tourists should require proof of accommodation and return tickets. Maybe???

stellasstar1



Joined: 02/07/2008
Posts: 1519

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 11:54

The question was never fully answered about the over 60's. I know BRS put an aswer on that made it clear it is still a grey area, but someone was going to go to Immigration and ask. Are they legal wthout residency, does the amnesty apply to those over 60 that never took out residency, was just wondering, as due to renew next year..

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 15:06

waddo, answer 1: yes two insurances, makes it even more difficult. 2/3: foreign workers can claim back pension fund payments. you cannot make it within the 14 days you have to leave the island, or.. this is the only money they will have in their pockets when they leave. Many find out here that the insurances were not paid for the last month/years.. and dont get a penny or much less as expected. 4: yes, this is the idea behind it... but which cypriot wants to carry stones at a building plot for 1300 lira net? TRNC Employers fancy turkish workers anyway... as they have no rights and can be better cheated. 5,passport: a TR passport is only given for a certain time, 1,2,5 or 10 years. usually TR workers only apply and pay (regulary) year by year, as it is approx 100 euro per year or maybe more, i lost track.