The Merkel-Sarkozy Plan will cause havoc!

walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 08:50

In 24 hours our leaders may wave through a terrifying Merkel/Sarkozy plan that would permanently ban vital public spending -- all to appease big banks. But we live in a democracy and should have the right to vote on any permanent changes to how Europe operates. Join the call now to save our democratic rights and stop this damaging plan for good:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/democracy_trumps_austerity/?vl

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 10:24

I find THIS avaaz attempt a bit weak.

from avaaz: merkozy want "permanently ban vital public spending", thats simply not true.

Avaaz wants: "Europe needs to toughen up and regulate the banks" and "..respect democracy, ..., reject austerity, and invest in our future"

Reject austerity? "vital public" spending lead to 80-130% debts and more (counties), approved by parliaments, the investment into the future were debts.

Yes its true, this plan does not go far enough, no plans are ready to regulate the banks and take exactly this "saved" money to "invest into the future" (maybe thanks to London?) .

The democracy is not respected, true. If it would, what would happen?

But, this is not the "end of the story", this is the beginning. The Merkozy plan isnt worth the paper its written on, the big changes are to come!, with approval of the people, the parliaments, the democracy.

In Germany 90% are pro FTT (financial transaction tax), trouble to come....

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 13:31

If they spent less time having summits, then the savings would be massive.

astro941


Joined: 22/05/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 14:36

Has capitalsim like communism failed? Has Cuba the best model? From a free trading Marxist.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 19:07

msge 4



Capitalism works, but it is facing a crisis of confidence.



Capitalism has gone wrong when CEO’s carry no risk, earn substantial salaries and are rewarded for failure. Its gone awry when the financial markets are no longer about the flow of capital to support the market, but is now just one giant casino. Its defective when big monopolies, like the banks etc prevent smaller players from entering the market. Its gone wrong when productivity has risen but where real wages are falling. Capitalism needs to get back to market principles, which is about innovating and producing solid products, not short term share manipulation. The system should be about enhancing the human spirit not destroying it.



Actors in the market who seek to gain positional power at the expense of the larger community should be penalised financially (not regulated which will stifle their freedoms). Positional purchases that benefit the individual, but not the group should be taxed heavily.

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 19:39

thank you msg 5, could not said this in such a nice english...

but... all you said indicates that capitalism does not work!, as you said.. "Capitalism has gone wrong"

It will be very difficult to "reverse" all the s*** , ending up having a "re-confidenced capitalism".

interesting also: " Positional purchases that benefit the individual, but not the group should be taxed heavily", exactly that is was the "26" accuse the brits now for their "No", benefitting themselves, not the group.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 20:13

msge 6



Yes, its going to be difficult to reverse all this s***. I am not sure it can be done (not in the short term), but to date Capitalism has worked more successfully than communism, if putting healthy food on the table is the critical measure.



I agree with the financial tax that the EU wants to impose. A problem with capitalism is that the financial system has been deregulated and the market economy has become too over regulated.



I sympathise with Cameron, but unfortunately Britain is over reliant on the financial sector. Too much of our talent goes in to this sector. We need to diversify more. A financial tax, like all policies are only ever going to work if all governments around the world (not just Europe) impose treaties simultaneously.

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 23:11

I give you some other opinions from many GERMANS: " ...we need more british people...", because "...much of that what they say is true..." and "..the guts they have is impressive...to stand against 26..."

its not all "britbashing" in europe.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 23:22

With Merkel-Sarkozy Plan I think Europe is committing suicide. It was bad enough having the Euro which restricted the fiscal policies of member countries and left them helpless to correct their economies but with this new policy of having their national budgets restricted by the faceless controllers will really cause great unrest amongst the population of many member countries. Its a very slipperry road to disaster.

ismet

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 01:28

Message 4



It was never about Capitalism versus Communism



But rather Socialism aginst Democracy.



Regards Joseph

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 08:55

Elko, this is not correct. The eurozone member countries continued to correct their economies.. they continued to incur debts, debts debts. With eg the demographic forecast it is logical that the euro and the EU one day would fall deep. It cannot be in the interest of "the group", that single members "take as much as possible" and burden their debts to other members or the next generation. Yes, there will be great unrest amongst the population.. the state employed (too many, unefficient, wages too high), the above 45years old (who planned their early retirement already, made money with investing into hedgefonds), the richer (who fears higher taxes), the very poor (which fear "the better targeting" of social welfare)..

"The youth" in the EU supports the programm. Why?, very easy: They are in trouble since 10 years already, jobless, working as "practicants" or in permanent "flexible" on-off employment contracts, not able to pay into the pensions fund.

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 09:02

cont

Also, it is not a Merkozy plan: Jean Claude Juncker, president of the "eurogroup" was asked whether "the small" EU members feel patronized from Merkozy. He said, "...No, because the new programm is that we kept telling to France and Germany since a long time, but they could not agree to it... now they offered a good solution and thats the reason why everything goes on now so fast..."

yrret


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 761

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 10:47

My mate explained that if he were Merkel/Sarkosy, he would be looking to pull their countries (maybe Austria and Finland too, but they produce very little) out of the euro. That way the remaining peasant nations can devalue the currency, and write down their debts, and make exports cheap outside the euro-zone without affecting each others internal trade. A short while later, Germany/France can buy back into the euro, make a huge windfall in currency, and recoup the billions they have wasted saving a couple of third world countries who couldn't afford to be in the club anyway.

Only downside would be it would hit German/French exports to within the zone for the time they are out as they would be very expensive. However, to combat this, they could buy euros for euro trade on a futures deal, that way they get more, for which the ECB hold onto the Deutchemarks. When Germany buy back into the euro, the ECB funds are also topped up to the tune of billions as they flip their Dm's to eu