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This is not good enough Turkey... clean up your act

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Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
06/12/2008 17:15

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Message 1 of 42 in Discussion

Engin Ceber was arrested at 1400 on 28 September in Istanbul. A political activist, he was taking part in an unsanctioned demonstration.



Twelve days later he died of a brain haemorrhage.



The autopsy report details "widespread internal bleeding in all parts of the body due to blunt trauma," sustained over a week.



It concludes that the injuries are consistent with "crude beating, which is a method of torture".



A series of reforms passed as Turkey prepared to open EU accession talks led to a sharp fall in allegations of torture and ill-treatment.



But the death in custody of Engin Ceber has put the conduct of Turkish police and prison guards back in the spotlight.



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
06/12/2008 17:17

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Message 2 of 42 in Discussion

Sixty police and prison officials will stand trial in connection with his death. They beat me on my side, kicking and punching without stopping



Four prison guards have been charged with torture, which carries a life sentence.



BBC News



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 14:24

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Message 3 of 42 in Discussion

Seems traditional Turkish methods have still not died out. How many people in Cyprus have suffered a similar fate at the hands of the barbarians?



Hopefully this man's relatives will one day find justice.



Hilltop



Joined: 28/04/2008
Posts: 636

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 14:30

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Message 4 of 42 in Discussion

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7769710.stm



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 14:35

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Message 5 of 42 in Discussion

Hilltop,



What has rioting in Greece got to do with Turkish authorities beating a prisoner to death?



I suppose it's as relevant to the discussion as asking who made commissions helping to flog Amaranta/AGA properties for Gary Robb.



newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 14:42

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Message 6 of 42 in Discussion

In 1978 there was a film released called Midnight Express.It showed some of the methods employed by police and prison staff.They were pretty horriffic.30 years on it looks to me as though these babaric methods are still in place.What an absolutre disgrace,

Paul.



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 14:46

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Message 7 of 42 in Discussion

Pike



Many people have died in custody in the UK too...



To then make the anti-Turkish slur that this is "traditional" is simply you being you... but we all know what you are and what your agenda is already... don't we Pike



Now I challenge you to direct us to an article or a website posting that you have initiated that shows your disapproval of Greek authorities behaving in a manner unacceptable to most right thinking people. Do that and we will believe that you are not just a Greek propagandist...



Come on we are waiting....



Not holding my breath..



Sorry forgot they are a bunch of angels...



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 14:59

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Message 8 of 42 in Discussion

Groucho,



Easy, tiger! It was your ancestor who was an Ottoman pasha, not you. I'm sure he experiened a few prisoners falling down stairs in Turkish custody.



This is a Turkish-related BB, not a Greek one. Why do those seeking to justify Turkish brutality try and point to others - usually Greek - in an attempt to divert the blame? You should be condemning this killing in Turkish custody like any good person would and not trying to make excuses.



Haram olsun.



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 15:01

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Message 9 of 42 in Discussion

newlad,



I reckon the American bloke in Midnight Express could have hidden his entire stash of blow in a different place after he left Turkish custody.



gibson335


Joined: 01/11/2008
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 15:04

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Message 10 of 42 in Discussion

Quite correct Grouch



We all know what THE ABLE SEAMAN is about and not a word will emanate about his Greek Chums shooting a teenager dead during the riots yesterday in Athens.



If the Turkish are "traditional barbarians" then his Greek chums are exactly the same animal.



By the way this in no way condones what happened in Turkey but as you rightly point out many have died the World over in Police hands. I don't suppose THE ABLE SEAMAN has a word to say about any of them.



The silence will be deafening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 15:05

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Message 11 of 42 in Discussion

Ah, so that's a no then,,,,



As I'm the one who did initiate this thread and called for them to clean up their act I think it's failry obvious that I don't hold with this at all...



That you choose to ignore the fact that the Turkish authorities have instigated proceedings against the alleged offenders is typical you... so we still know what you are...



ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 15:34

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Message 12 of 42 in Discussion

Every country probably has something to be shameful about.



Whilst we are discussing Turkey, did anyone see the programme about mental institutions in Turkey, shown on ITV 1 three weeks ago?



To have a disabled child is to bring shame on the family. The kids are sent to an asylum. The conditions of these institutions were absolutely apalling. The programme also highlighted a very similar problem in Romania. Despite having full knowledge of these conditions and other serious problems Romania was granted EU membership.



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 16:01

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Message 13 of 42 in Discussion

ILC



As I have said before, in the UK up to the 1950's it was common practice to put young girls in mental institutions if their father (the breadwinner in the household) could not control his carnal urges and committed incest with her.



This was reagrded as the right thing to do as the girl was "temptation" and needed to be removed.. There was no question of the sick bastard who ruined their lives being banged-up... as he was the provider.



Thinking of the torment of young children being put away out of sight out of mind still gives me the shivers....



newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 16:46

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Message 14 of 42 in Discussion

Hi Mark,

Yes i saw the programme that you are refering to a very harrowing documentary indeed.I find it very hard to believe that this sort of thing still takes place.I understand that it is still common place in countries like Rumania and Bulgaria as well.What ever happened to human rights,

Paul.



phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 18:05

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Message 15 of 42 in Discussion

I wonder how many of you have actually spent a night in a Turkish

jail? Perhaps you all take Midnight Express as gospel?



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 18:08

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Message 16 of 42 in Discussion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHjLMnGkedU&feature=related



For those of you interested in the real Billy Hayes...



Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 18:17

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Message 17 of 42 in Discussion

10yrs ago when i was working for one of the P&O group ,the company I was with sent two 40ton trucks full of everything you could think of that had been donated by the employees to several orphanages and homes in Rumania.WE had been doing it for about 5yrs. the company donated the trucks free of charge and the 4 drivers gave there time for free.Some of the things they toldus about i.e sanitory,medical.cleanliness, made you shiver that people could treat kids like that. about 70% of the kids had some sort of disability beit mental or physical and they got the very minimum of support from there government who tried to make out they new nothing about it....



fatboy



Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 244

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 21:04

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Message 18 of 42 in Discussion

what will it take before everybody knows



newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 21:09

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Message 19 of 42 in Discussion

Phylray,

Midnight Express was based on a true story,

Paul.



Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 21:28

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Message 20 of 42 in Discussion

on the news tonight the two police officers concerned with the killing of the youth in Athens have been arrested and charged......perhaps a ploy to calm things down..



newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 21:33

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Message 21 of 42 in Discussion

Coachie wrong thread mate,

Paul.



Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 21:44

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Message 22 of 42 in Discussion

oops!! sorry newlad ..



newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 21:51

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Message 23 of 42 in Discussion

No probs.Just doing some part time moderating,

Paul.



punk rocker


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 21:53

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Message 24 of 42 in Discussion

'Why oh Why' do you people always rise to the bait, the almighty c**p oozing from the pen of the boy sailor is proof enough of his blinkered and deluded allegencies (oops typo), the great BRITISH EMPIRE never committed any atrocities 'AYE RIGHT' just go back a couple of years to the brutality dished out to Iraqui prisoners by guess who (whose forces) Pike my last few posts have been moderated because I said I think you are ignorant and have a very narrow minded attitude to world affairs (sorry Cyprus affairs) no doubt this one will be as well by the newly assembled team of drivel riddlers



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 22:02

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Message 25 of 42 in Discussion

I see care in the community has now extended to providing internet access, which I approve of in a supervised environment.



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 22:05

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Message 26 of 42 in Discussion

Groucho: "...so we still know what you are..."



Ah yes, And where I live as well, presumably.



Who's "we" BTW? Don't you speak for yourself?



newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 22:07

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Message 27 of 42 in Discussion

Punky,

Calm down and have another rusk,

Paul.



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 22:11

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Message 28 of 42 in Discussion

Paul



Take a look at post 16 and watch both parts of Billy Hayes story.. You will then see why Midnight Express was a bit misleading...



Considering the life he's led he appears quite lucid about his time as a prisoner and his other experiences, also his attitude to Turkey is very conciliatory and pragmatic...



newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 22:18

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Message 29 of 42 in Discussion

Will do Groucho,

Paul.



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 23:05

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Message 30 of 42 in Discussion

Groucho,



No doubt the film sexed-up the brutality, if that's the right way to put it, but I think a kernal of truth was there.



BTW, the soldiers and MPs swarming around the plane reminded me of my first flight into the north of Cyprus. How things have changed over the years.



MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 23:28

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Message 31 of 42 in Discussion

every country has its problems ,as every individual does ,however i don,t understand why some choose to live in the land of their enemies,people like pike or who ever he may really be .



musin

long live the kktc



MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 23:50

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Message 32 of 42 in Discussion

pike

msg 8 "haram olsun" that,s rather a nasty thing to say too someone on a bb



what has this person done to you ,apart from debate with you ,it shows weakness and cowardice .



you should not write in turkish when people do not understand what you are writing and when you youself do not comprehend the exact meaning.



musin



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 23:55

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Message 33 of 42 in Discussion

Talking about police brutality and corruption I've just got back from pictures having seen the changeling. Excellent would recommend



tonni


Joined: 07/12/2008
Posts: 178

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 00:12

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Message 34 of 42 in Discussion

THE 'MIDNIGHT EXPRESS'FILM WAS BANNED FROM BEING SHOWN HERE AND IN TURKEY MANY MOONS AGO I THINK..............



phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 00:31

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Message 35 of 42 in Discussion

That's right it was. I know it was BASED ON fact but it was really

exagerrated. Likewise Braveheart was, but very little of it was history.

However, there is no need to call a nation Barbarians because of this

horrific incident.

I am also concerned about the treatment of writers such as Orhan Pamuk

who are under attack for their writing about incidents that are not allowed

to be discussed even. Still, a way to go for true democracy.



gibson335


Joined: 01/11/2008
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 09:26

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Message 36 of 42 in Discussion

msg 25



I am so sorry Pike



I really didn't realise that you needed care in the community who kindly provided you with a computer and Internet access!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Punkrocker



you are so right with your post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 20:50

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Message 37 of 42 in Discussion

Pike



In 1985 I was on a flight to Sarajevo that was diverted to Zagreb because of snow..



When we arrived at Zagreb the airport was closed and as we got off the plane we were surrounded by twenty armed guards who all cocked their rifles...



They escorted us through the airport with the lights off until we entered each room and then the light was extinguished behind us... it was all very spooky and made everyone feel less than comfortable...



So I too know how Billy Hayes must have felt.. although obviously I was not running drugs in those days... ;)



newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 20:57

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Message 38 of 42 in Discussion

Christ Groucho did you cac em big style,

Paul.



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 21:59

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Message 39 of 42 in Discussion

It was the most unnerving start to a skiing holiday... but no, no cacking keggies.



Sarajevo was a strange place and you could see even then that the two factions later to go to war were not going to get along for much longer...



The hotel I stayed in on the Jahorina Mountain Range was the one built for the 1984 Winter Olympics.. so the venue was great for skiing...Bobsleigh etc..



However this hotel became the HQ for Radovan Karadzic and he rained bombs down onto the people of Sarajevo from this place...



newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 22:05

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Message 40 of 42 in Discussion

Another clip,

Paul. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttw0pAghT3I&feature=related



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 23:06

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Message 41 of 42 in Discussion

Yep that's the guys who check my baggage!



Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 00:14

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Message 42 of 42 in Discussion

Why didn't he use DHL like everybody else does? W**ker!



http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=j5lU52aWTJo



Lem



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