Same old excuses from the minister (ROC Title Deeds)

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
06/12/2008 18:38

Sir,



We write regarding the article in the Cyprus Mail, November 25, titled “Minister Urges Patience Over Title Deeds Issue”.



Mr Sylikiotis once again trots out the same pathetic excuse that it’s all the buyers’ fault stating that “people who buy homes cannot be blindly signing contracts”.



May we remind him that what we are talking about here is the total failure of the current and present governments of Cyprus to provide an effective framework of regulation and law enforcement to ensure adequate safeguards for both Cypriot and foreign property buyers.



He mentions the meeting with CPAG in June at which he would not even discuss the CPAG report prepared for the previous government. He just stated that new legislation would be passed, including this amnesty reward package for developers.



From what we now understand from the few snippets in the media, the Minister is only planning another amnesty for developers who have failed to meet the legal obligations of their planning

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
06/12/2008 18:40

In doing this, these developers were unable to obtain a Certificate of Final Completion meaning that the developer and the buyer (unknowingly) were breaking criminal law CAP 96 Article 10 which forbids occupancy prior to the issuance of the Certificate. Clearly, buyers’ lawyers failed even to warn them of this issue, never mind inserted anything in their contracts.



One of the main demands in our CPAG report was the enforcement of this law. At our meeting, however, the Minister informed us that he could not enforce this vital consumer protection law. The reason cited was that he could not get the responsible departments in his own Ministry to enforce it – because there was no penalty for breaking this criminal law. You could not make this up!



In the November 25 article he states that by ‘rewarding’ these law breakers through an amnesty instead of punishing them – that Title Deeds will be issued sooner.



Could we remind him and the hundreds of thousands of affected buyers that th

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
06/12/2008 18:41

was already tried three or four years ago without any discernible results for one very simple reason. Namely, that Title Deeds cannot be issued until mortgages are cleared – and currently with over €4 billion of loans to developers, especially in the present financial crisis, this simply won’t happen.



A responsible government would guarantee every sales contract lodged at the Land Registry rather than to continue to allow this orgy of lending to developers. Yet Ministers and others simply talk about some developers going bust in the present crisis and brazenly accept the risk that buyers could lose the homes for which they have paid in full. Nevertheless, it does not go unnoticed that the government now guarantees individual bank deposits up to €100,000, thus protecting the banking system and their friends the bankers.



A responsible government would have investigated the mass organised scam surrounding Immovable Property Tax whereby possibly tens of millions of euros have been

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
06/12/2008 18:42

defrauded from buyers in the Title Deed Trap. Obtaining money under false pretences carries a 5 year jail sentence under Criminal Code 298, yet buyers have been told that organised fraud is nothing to do with government.



A responsible government would have stopped the illegal contract cancellation scam whereby buyers are forced to pay huge amounts to developers when they want to sell whilst in this Title Deed Trap.



All these failures demonstrate that developers are allowed by government to ride roughshod over buyers’ property rights in total contradictio of Article 23 of the Cyprus Constitution, in addition to EU and UN charters safeguarding these rights.



Finally, Mr Sylikiotis in calling for “patience over the title deed issue” whilst at the same time failing to enforce the law of the land to protect their rights not only insults every buyer in this trap but also confirms that his is not a government of the people, for the people but one which is subservient to the wishes of

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
06/12/2008 18:43

dishonest developers and legal fraternity plus the irresponsible bankers who have helped put these 100,000 homes at risk.



CPAG



Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2008

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
06/12/2008 19:22

Just wondering, where`s Pike and Suzanne on this?

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 11:59

Newscoop



I think they just ignore anything inconvenient that doesn't fit with their view of the ROC and the TRNC.



No one is denying the major problems with the property system in the TRNC but what is the excuse for the ROC with its vastly greater resources and EU membership not to have solved this.



It seems if anything the problems in the ROC are even greater with respect to title deeds and they don't have the excuse of the Turkish Army not processing permission to purchase applications.



Even if a settlement on the Cyprus issue is reached property owners will inherit a system that is at least as bad and possibly worse with respect to developer mortgages and title deed transfers for property buyers.



Aussie

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 12:15

good post and comments Aussie.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 12:58

when i visited the roc land registry they were very, very busy.

(not sitting drinking coffee or talking on the phone!)



i don't think the causes of those genuine people waiting for roc deeds have been helped any, by the few that have taken the grievences out in public.

like camping outside the embassy, and slandering the roc gov across the net, ect.



i think they are campaigning the uk gov at the moment, to put pressure on the roc gov over this.



with the current financial situation, i think all cyprus goverments will be looking to get in the unpaid land taxes.

maybe this will speed things up?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 13:08

Aussie,



How does the situation in the south affect people in the north who have been defrauded, can't get PTP or have no prospect of seeing a kocan in the near future? Because the two scenarios have no link whatsoever. Are you trying to make people in the TRNC feel better somehow? If so, you are taking people for fools.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 16:11

Fire starter... who has slandered who? If they are merely reporting the truth then it's hardly slander... do you have personal knowledge of the slander?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 17:05

Fire starter:

"i don't think the causes of those genuine people waiting for roc deeds have been helped any, by the few that have taken the grievences out in public.

like camping outside the embassy, and slandering the roc gov across the net, ect"





These are recent incidents Fire Starter. On average most people buying in the ROC have waited in excess of 10 years for their deeds. Many have, like buyers in the TRNC, tried to get legal redress only to discover that court judgements are rarely enforced. For those of us that have had positive expereinces buying in Cyprus, I think its too easy and rather patronising to tell people not to air their grievences in public. After all what is left for them to do? For many its no longer about getting what is owed but preventing other victims from also being conned.

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 18:02

Pike



Of course the misfortune of many property buyers in the South doesn't help those in a similar position in the north but it does reflect the poor administration, legal system corruption and incompetance of the ROC administration as well. The ROC water fiasco also reflects very poorly on them.



For all its many failings at least some attempts are being made to improve the property laws here. Its also very relevant that the construction boom started many years earlier in the ROC and they had a lot more time to reform its laws and processes and deal with it.



The ROC should be setting a much better example and you wonder how much further such ineptitude extends in its administration and laws.



Aussie

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 09:07

groucho

the answer is yes.

a guy called connor has been giving it to the roc gov in a big way and lawyers on line and in public.

he was camping outside the embassy in the uk.

from what i have followed of the story, the guy sounds like a fraud, who tried it on with the developer to get more than he paid for.

complicated but its all about contracts i think.

he has been on another forum 'crying like a girl' he didn't get much support though!

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 10:00

bradus

where i was coming from was that this guy cannot go slagging of everyone then expect help from the goverment or the court system.

you know how the old boys club network works.



have you been following this story?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 21:49

Yes I have been following this guy's story. He has been well supported by many GC's and Brits who witnessed much of what happened between the builders and himself.The man was so severely attacked by the developers men he was hospitalised.The media were witness to this.They double sold his house by all accounts. The builders still have all his money and the money from the new owners as well. Would be fairly simple to return his money, after all, they have made their profit from the new purchasers. But would they do this? No of course not. He has been waiting to hear his case in court for a considerable length of time, as well as the assult case and initially was patient and did not rock the boat. Sadly it was going nowhere. As far as I can see the only people not to support him were a few GC's on another forum who were rude, aggressive and no different from their usual obnoxious selves. "Crying like a baby" I don't think so! Ridiculed by insensitive morons? Definately!

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 12:06

bradus

from what i understood the guy purchased a house off plan.

when it was built, he didn't like it because the developer had built another house in front off it. (hence he had lost his view i guess.)

he then refused to complete on his contract. (hence he broke the contract.)

who was at fault here?

from there i think the developer sold it on.

i don't disagree that he was assaulted, but this guy is ex military is he not?

so he must be able to look after himself?



i think there is always two sides to every story. all we are hearing is this guys version!

it would be interesting to see what the lawyer and developer have to say.

it would be nice to hear their side.