Daily Mail - Winter Fuel for Ex pats in the MeEd a target?

briggus


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
19/12/2011 14:28

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/bills/article-2076007/Winter-fuel-payments-ex-pats-living-sun-double-years.html



Apparently x Pats living in the Med do not experience cooler temperatures in - high ceilings no insulated - properties. You must all be roasting on an evenong in the Med.



IMO a typical DM article where everything is always so balck and white - so lets turn a everyone against a minority group without giving a balanced view.

redhead


Joined: 22/12/2010
Posts: 53

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 00:58

What a load of rubbish, how long is it since you lived in UK? Its damned cold here and its not nearly as cold in TRNC. Why should the UK fork out for your heating bills when you live for 80% of the year without heating your properties. The heating allowance is for poor old people who have to choose to "eat or heat", not just a little extra from the government to buy a bit extra gaz to take the chill off your villa.

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 07:54

redhead,



We need our woodburner on from November - April every evening. There is no way to insulate the properties in the TRNC, as is the case in most of the med. Some days it is on all day, sometimes only in the evenings, that is a lot of logs which are not cheap here. Electric is more expensive than the UK and having property in both countries, I can tell you that there is no difference in the bills. I have paid my dues and still pay UK taxes, I can no longer receive NHS treatment in the UK and I save them a fortune in prescriptions as I have to pay for my medication here, so please leave us expat pensioners with something. The sun doesn't shine 24 hours a day in any country in the med as some people believe.



The butlers wife

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 08:09

Its doesent matter if we need it or not we are entitled, paid our tax, served our country, end of story.



When they cease to give aid to every Tom Dick and Harry that walks into the UK as economic migrants, cease paying child allowances to european workers who uncountable familys are still in thier native countrys, then I may think of giving my allowance back. Untill then redhead tough.

swyflot


Joined: 07/11/2008
Posts: 916

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 08:18

This thread is starting to heat up

walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 08:59

This is all small stuff!

Why not drastically reduce Defence Spending? Why spend 100s of Billions of £s every year sticking our noses in where we are not wanted. Why spend all that money on causing to overthrow another country's government and help murder its Leader when we could have been looking after our own sick, infirm, needy, homeless???

Follow the Money, especially the Big Money and you'll find out whose behind it all. These small penny pinching snippets are slowly released to keep the general public thinking that the politicians are actually doing something. The Bigger picture is more important!

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 09:10

The uk government need start seriously addressing the leeches in the Uk who either refuse to work, or work the system in order to grab as many benefits as they can, before penalising expats for an allowance that actually contributes for what it is meant for as the butler has stated.

Some leeches however think that it is quite acceptable to include sky tv,ciggies,and booze as their list of essentials.

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 10:19

Some very good replies. But I must say I echo the sentiments of Walkerscott. 100%



We have been poking our noses in for many years at a great expense in Human life normally very young and also Billions of £s.



If you have paid in. Then you deserve it . Your choice of where you live should have no bearing on the matter.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 12:21

Sorry guys I do not see why the UK government should give heating allowance to those who are non residents of the UK

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 12:30

Well either give it to ALL Pensioners living here, or to none.

Geoff

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 12:51

With the cost of electric in the TRNC, I was going to ask Dave Camaroon to double it. Its a dam disgrace the way us pensioners are treated abroad having to put up with all the red tape, blatant discrimination and then to top it off having our houses auctioned off under our feet due to dishonest local developers. I believe we should all receive a crises payment as well as cold weather payments, at the end of the day with my disability and our lasses child benefit we are only on £900 a week, its enough to make you cry.



D.N

harita


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 1343

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 14:37

Stubs .. Being only 37 it's a wonder you're not still living with your parents ..



Think they would expect it no matter where they live ..

babydoll


Joined: 27/07/2011
Posts: 140

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 14:54

I thought to qualify for fuel payment you had to be resident in the UK in september so if you have property in uk regardless of 2nd home elsewhere you are entitled to it

babydoll


Joined: 27/07/2011
Posts: 140

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 14:56

do any other countries give fuel allowance out of curiosity and if so how much

harita


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 1343

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 15:06

The rules for qualification as I understand are :-

Reach the age of 60, reside in the UK at the time, once qualified doesn't matter where you live ..

Can't qualify if you live outside of the UK before you are 60 ..

Maybe if Karanfil reads this she will explain ..

briggus


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 15:17

Redhead:



I live in the UK the aloowance is to help with heating - required in the Med

briggus


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 15:24

Message 7 I think you need to add the multi national businesses avoiding taxes along with their CEO's, ministers with companies that are off shore.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 15:33

Harita



I wish I could go back and live with my parents...........they days of paying dig money are a distant memory



Sorry I'm still of the opinion that if you are a non resident you are not entitled.



Yeah i wonder if the TC authorites are paying heating allowance to those TC's in the UK? i think not

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 15:40

Msg18, I expect they are allowed full UK benefits

from the UK government

harita


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 1343

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 15:44

Stubs .. I know a few TC's who lived in the UK for quite a few years & are drawing a state pension ..



If they paid in & lived there when they could qualify .. They will be entitled to it & get it ..



The others will be "milking the system" & getting a lot more than the heating allowance ..

Carndi


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 613

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 15:49

If the politicians can steal or money disguised as expenses and receive a pension even after one term in office.

If the politicians can give themselves large pay rises whils telling our servicemen and woman that they will have to wait.

If the EU politicians can put in there expence accounts without receipts to take our money.

If the EU politicians can have shops which only they and their staff can use, paid for out of our taxes

If the EU can give the tobacco growing industry money out of our taxes,

then I will take every and anything that I can.

Worked since I was 14. Retired at 65. In those 51 years I served for 27 in the forces. Unemployed for just over one week. Not a bad record.

Not only do I deserve the cold weather money. Cameron should bring it to me on a silver platter.

davpat


Joined: 23/08/2011
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 18:08

Aye,it were 'ard up them chimneys wernt it?

Izzydog


Joined: 19/12/2011
Posts: 1

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 18:30

Hear hear Carndi, to the rest of you try looking up how much immigrants payment is and how much someone who has pain NI & Taxes for 50 years gets as a pension, also include housing benefit for both. You may be in for a shock.

With all the scroungers in the UK its a wonder there is any thing at all left for the workers.

If you qualify then it is your legal right scrounger or NOT.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 18:54

I believe Harita message 28 - is right.



I was told that if I had qualified for the heating allowance when living in the UK I would get it in future whereever I lived. Because I left the UK before I qualified I dont get it.



I still age at the same rate and get as cold as everyone else and I still pay UK taxes and paid my full complement of UK Nat.Ins. contributions.



How logical is that.



If the UK Gvt. gave my a discount on my tax because of the money I am saving them and and a no claims bonus on the NHS I wouldnt mind!



The fact is that as far as the UK Govt. is concerned permanent expats are a soft target. We dont bother to vote and lose voting rights after l5 years abroad and are fragmented and disorganised so we dont form pressure groups. We are a milch cow for taxes, but otherwise can be forgotten.



WE need a parallel organisation to the BRS to represent our right in the UK



Anyone up for it, or are you all alright really Jack?

kaiserphil


Joined: 14/12/2008
Posts: 1096

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 18:59

Lizzi - "The fact is that as far as the UK Govt. is concerned permanent expats are a soft target. We dont bother to vote and lose voting rights after l5 years abroad and are fragmented and disorganised so we dont form pressure groups. We are a milch cow for taxes, but otherwise can be forgotten."

Exactly right, the same as pensioners and other groups.

Governments love soft targets!

jacko99


Joined: 26/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 19:06

yes they have no idea that you have to heat a house in the med in winter,can anyone tell me waht is the cost of petrol there now and council tax and water charges in lapta tabboc and 20 bensons

Carndi


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 613

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 19:14

davpat. Nowhere in my post did I infer that I worked up chimneys so would not know how hard it was But there were many time in my 27 years in the forces serving all over the word when it was hard and at the end of it they gave me pension which they tax , the money to be used to keep some layabouts who have been brought to believe that they are entitled to everything without having done a days work in their lives.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 19:39

Msg 27, you must have got a nice lump sum

plus freehousing for those 27 years?

paddywack


Joined: 04/05/2009
Posts: 959

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 19:48

Bit below the belt Phil

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 19:56

Why it is a fact !

despite the killing

most people I know from the services worked away with a lump sum

and a very nice pension



Despite when most joined were not qualified or highly educated people

Carndi


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 613

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 19:56

Message 28. Can tell you were never in the forces. There never was / is free housing for service people. They pay rent just the same as civies. Also pay electric etc.

For quite a few years,until Margaret Thatcher came to power, service pay was half that of civie street.When we went away our wives had to run the home on less money because the cost of our food was deducted fromour pay.

Were service personnel to get free accommodation they would deserve it and every penny and more that they receive.

Before you start making comments about service or exservice personel le3arn your facts.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 20:00

Sorry if you did not recieve a lump

and a good pension

then I apologise



and sorry I forgot the free food

Carndi


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 613

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 20:11

WRITING THIS NIN CAPITAL LETTERS AS YOU DONT SEEM TO READ LOWE R CASE.



LUMP SUM ... YES



PENSION ... YES



FREE FOOD ... NO



FREE ACCOMMODATION ... NO



FREE ELECTRICITY ETC ... NO



AS SAID IN COMMENT 31 GET YOUR FACTS CORRECT BEFORE COMMENTING. IT IS SILLY TO DEBATE FROM IGNORANCE

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 20:15

Phil. Give up before you dig a bigger hole. Many soldiers who served and died in Northern Ireland and had families left in BAOR, had worked an average of 18 hour days 7 days a week and did not earn enough to be able to pay their quartering charges but were charged for their rations. Soldiers also paid for some of their uniform and often paid themselves for civilian equipment such as compasses as the Army issues were useless.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 20:20

My point is if you worked in another manual job

for the same amount of years

would you be treated the same way



I sorry I did not know you paid

for your food like every other worker

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
21/12/2011 00:42

Soldiers (and indeed any other public sector) and conditions versus "civilians" is irrelevant to the issue.

So is the comparative cost of living in the UK and other countries.



The question raised by the original post is whether pensioners who have spent their working lives in the UK and have, and in the case of tax still are, contributed to its economy by way of taxes, rates and NI contributions , etc., and are actually saving the UK millions by not calling on its services, are entitled to the same benefits as those living in the UK. Bear in mind that many of us are here because the climate (imperfect though it is ) is beneficial to our health and/or that the failure to provide a safe society in the UK and freedom of movement for older people adds to the attraction of where we live.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
21/12/2011 00:49

If people make a choice (any choice) in life

you should accept the results

whether you are a criminal, soldier, ex-pat,etc



you make the choice you roll the dice

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
21/12/2011 11:01

If you do not qualify for heating allowance, which is based on pensiion entitlement, simply because y0u do not live in the UK, then why not take it that step further, stop pensions to non residents. Of course I am not serious, whether you wanted to or not, during your working life a contribution (premium) went into the Govt. coffers and a promise was all you received in return for it, a promise that if you lived long enough, this premium would buy you a pension, so it is not a gift, it is your right and so is the heatng allowance. If you also paid into another pension by choice, then good for you, but I do not see why you should be penalised for it.



It is jealousy and the politics of envy of those that lambast you for taking what (IMHO) is yours by right.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
21/12/2011 11:33

It is material fact that the winter heating allowance is an addition to the pension and not means tested.

The decision to pay it in this way was weighed against the cost of policing the eligibility for a means and needs based benefit.

The extra costs (manpower and all that that entails) in making it a means and needs based benefit made the decision to give it to all pensioners a simple one... no contest, the few beneficiaries who would be excluded would save only a fraction of the cost in administration making the cost/benefit analysis show a net loss.

i.e. it's way, way cheaper to give it to all rather than try and police who should not get it. The government may well keep looking at this issue but the figures will never stack-up in favour of doing anything concrete about it... Of course that won't stop the criticism.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
21/12/2011 12:30

Phil..I served for 9 years in the RAF and never paid a penny for anything including uniform.Mind you I was only paid £6 aweek as a fully trained Aircraft Technician,oh how things have changed.Some of my colleages stayed in forty years and came out with a good lump sum and pension,based on their rank and length of service and no Contributions. As for paying tax,well your state pension is tax free,it is only when you add it to your private pension are you likely to pay tax.e.g if your two pensions exceed £10000 you pay tax at 22%on the excess.So if you are paying a lot of tax you must have one helluva private pension which is coming from a UK based company who is earning that money for you so there fore you pay tax.Perhaps you should have had your private pension organised off shore then you would not pay any UK tax. As for living there because of health reasons a few of you yes,majority because at the time it was exceedingly cheap to buy and live there compared to the UK.

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
21/12/2011 19:11

On the subject of leeches there are many of them in the TRNC including those who leech off those who pay their dues when asked , then there are those who dont for very skant reasons, this from a serviceman of 23 years who cannot understand the mentality of many posters on this forum who lie & twist the truth continuously.

Am I now banned for voicing this ?????

Merry Xmas to the straight and upright people

JDP

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
21/12/2011 19:16

Msg 40, thank you

scruff


Joined: 15/07/2008
Posts: 1070

Message Posted:
21/12/2011 19:36

msg 40

Every post you ever make is full of envy. Now you show you're envious of people who have more than the State Pension to live. In most cases people have paid contributions all their working lives for this. It didn't come free. Obviously you spend your entire life in the UK. being envious of anyone who has more than you have. How sad.

Finally basic rate tax is now 20% & has been for some time.

redhead


Joined: 22/12/2010
Posts: 53

Message Posted:
22/12/2011 02:47

Wow,



So glad to see cyprus 44 has not lost any of its fun loving light hearted free spirited contributors! Love and light to you all this yuletide!!!!!!!

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
22/12/2011 07:14

Re Msg 11: Wow!! is that right, £900 per week, £47K PA??

Geoff

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
22/12/2011 08:30

pensions in UK one of the lowest in EU/ Pay a decent pension and all add ons would be unnecessary/ End of arguments. Merry Christmas everyone = keep warm/

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
22/12/2011 08:50

Can't disagree with Pollymarples - spot on there!

Geoff

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
22/12/2011 09:36

If you are on 47K per annum you dont need the fuel allowance - this debate has been on here before disagree expats should receive it should go to the more needy in the UK where people are really struggling ! and it is a LOT colder



Also people that are in work in the UK shouldn''t receive the fuel allowance either, the whole system needs looking at but costs more to sort out than to give out - Child benefit also given if they are in full time education until they are 19 to high earning couples its madness

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
22/12/2011 10:18

ouch Sienna you are missing the point/ if you pay in/ then you are entitled/ I am not interested in what income someone has / We have a choice what we do with our incomes EXCEPT where the revenue dips its hand in before you receive it and indeed the more you earned in your working life the more you paid so they are already subsidising the lower paid in their old age/within whatever criteria used by the govt/ those that paid more into the system do not get more out so what right has anyone to deny them their heating allowance/



Where in any other savings scheme would anyone advocate those that saved more should get less. The fact that the pension scheme is a glorified enforced scheme to save for your old age cannot be denied/ The fact that the govts everywhere in the world do not ring fence this money and invest it/is the reason there is never enough in the pot/

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
22/12/2011 16:03

It's a fallacy to believe that the government pays a winter heating allowance !

That money is paid in arrears, in lieu of the weekly pensions NOT paid.

Pensions in the United Kingdom are among the LOWEST paid in Europe.

By NOT paying us £3.85 per week on our pensions the crafty government try to con us into believing that we should be grateful to them for gifting us £200 they FAILED to pay us weekly!

IT IS NOT A HEATING PAYMENT ! It is back-pay, the government have withheld, for poor PENSIONS and ALL pensioners are entitled to it for that reason whether you live in the UK or otherwise!





Gerry

bertieboss


Joined: 22/07/2011
Posts: 149

Message Posted:
23/12/2011 02:24

Instead of tinkering at the low end of the income scale they should be dealing with the shysters at the other end who are avoiding/evading tax and paying themselves massive wages and bonuses.

But they know the prols will miss the point and argue about who claims what benefits and how much "immigrants" can claim while the scum on the top laugh all the way to the bank!!!

As for service pay and conditions - the same ignorance surfaces as with claims about immigrants.