Kurban Bayram

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
07/12/2008 22:49

Remember a couple of things...



One, there are likely to be slaughtered animals in the offing...pardon the pun.



and



Two, the Banks are closed for 4 days....



Some shops will be closed but most supermarkets will be business as usual..



I know, I know...

susief


Joined: 06/11/2008
Posts: 529

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 07:19

Groucho, do you know if the Wednesday market in Girne will still be on this week and what time is it usually? Many thanks

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 07:56

Susie,



I'm sorry I don't the definitive answer but I think in times past if it has been on it's been a greatly reduced affair... I remember a neighbour saying they wish that had not bothered as there were not the usual great number of stalls and it was a long haul from Esentepe....

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 08:02

Also to bear in mind... the queue at the Border will be bigger than normal tomorrow...



Day one: Today, the locals stay in the village and do their sacrifice and portion out the meat and celebrate in situ.. i.e. they don't rush to the border.



Day Two: Tues, some of the locals head for their historic stomping grounds, many of which are in the South and the border gets very busy with tail-backs to the roundabout...

susief


Joined: 06/11/2008
Posts: 529

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 08:18

Thanks Groucho! I'm not normally able to go on a Wednesday so we might pop along for a look as we're not too far away. Keep fingers crossed it's not a wasted trip!

Turbo


Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 833

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 08:47

Happy Bayram .

A note to all expats, be prepared to come across an animal being sacrificed, in villages or small communities.

They do have designated areas for the "deed" but a lot of people still stick to tradition. Just don't get grossed out if you witness it, just keep on driving and try not to show how shocked you are.

The plus side is that a lot of the meat will be donated to the poor.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 09:33

the sheep are being done here ,right now.

it will be going to the people of the village this year.



personally i'm not offended by this, i think its good for someone to do something nice for a change.

we have been invited to a friends for lunch, so looking forward to it.



happy bayram to all !

gibson335


Joined: 01/11/2008
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 11:18

Whilst I do not like what happens to the animals we as ex-pats really have no right to be offended or critisize the practice as we are living in their Country



Pity Englands not the same, banning everything for fear of upsetting immigrants

Treesy


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 406

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 15:27

Iyi Bayramlar,



wish all ex-pats took your advice gibson, unfortunately we were very insulted today by some ladies who had to pass near us while we were cutting up our freshly slaughtered sheep.



They made it very clear that they were disgusted by our actions and this was very upsetting for us - especially on this special day.



Being English I am all too aware of the 'little Britain' syndrome here. One of the reasons that I dislike this island. Unfortunately I can beat them, have no desire to join them and so am looking to move on to pastures new.



Whatever religion you are - this sacrifice is to remember the first prophet Ibrahim/Abraham and his willingness to sacrifice his son for God. Jewish people sacrifice too. He is considered by many to be the Father of the religions (not in a literal sense) - as he was before Judaism, Christianity and Islam.



Happy holidays!!!



T

come_on_aylin


Joined: 14/06/2008
Posts: 908

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 17:18

Gibson335



Have to agree with your comment re Britain. I find it very amusing, at this time of year, the lengths that councils in England go to to prevent offending foreigners, such as banning Christmas lights, carol singing, etc. Then we go into Girne and lots of the shops have Christmas trees and there are lights up throughout the town! I just wish people could learn to live and let live.



As I'm a butcher's daughter can't really complain about the slaughtering of animals....

Treesy


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 406

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 18:29

Aylin,



I agree - its the politically correct do-gooders - I used to like living in Bradford as they would keep the same lights up but change the words depending on which festival was being celebrated - always a cheery sight especially in winter and in Bradford! -lots of colourful lights whatever the occasion.



Thing is - I think they do more harm than good and actually cause resentment and ill feeling between cultures, religions, etc.



T

gibson335


Joined: 01/11/2008
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 18:48

Treesy



Bradford was almost like living in a foreign country!!!!!!!



I used to live in Cullingworth and Bingley!!!

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 22:21

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?smenu=69&twindow=Default&sdetail=6795&mad=No&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=

caroletavy


Joined: 03/07/2007
Posts: 143

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 22:37

Treesy,



I can assure you that the ladies concerned were not disgusted but perhaps slightly shocked to have to walk directly past your sheep as you chose to slaughter it on the steps of a studio used for a keep fit class most mornings.



Many of them, including myself chose not to look at what you were doing, but from my understanding nothing was said to anyone, so there was no reason to take offence.



However, your telling the ladies that if they didn't like it, then go back to the UK was offensive, particularly as one of the group was a Cypriot.



I think you have made to much of this and behalf of the ladies, I wish you all Happy Holidays.



Carole

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 23:09

Carole



Are you sure she's referring to your group? Maybe it was some other people Treesy is talking about... just a thought.

cmriver1


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 34

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 07:05

i think i would be freaked out if i were to see someone slaughtering an animal on the side of a road. i understand the holiday now but it would still be shocking to me.



on a trip to mexico i was invited to a bull fight i didn't want to go knowing that the bull would die. but after 3 beers it was all great. the meat goes to the poor thats what they told me.



we all do our on things in life. respect each other ways.........



cindi

Treesy


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 406

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 14:45

Carole,

We chose to slaughter it in the garden to the side of OUR HOME, we then decided to cut it up on the steps to OUR HOME and the lady in question asked 'what is that?' i said blood

her reply being urrrrrgggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, to her my reply was -go back to England then. The rest of you were all inside at this point.



I listened to you all talking about what was happening (and yes your were disgusted that was obvious), as did my English speaking Turkish husband - most of you chose to park your cars away from the car park - why? He was extremely insulted as this is an EXTREMELY important religious holiday in HIS country (any comments on this being Cyprus not Turkey just remember what the T stands for in TRNC please).



But don't worry you will not have to witness anything like this again here as due to the constant noise from classes such as yours - which is NOT your fault I know - we are being forced to move.



Iyi Bayramlar

T

Treesy


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 406

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 15:30

The day was ruined for us - what was a very special occasion - our first as a married couple and the first time for my husband to cut a sheep - normally his father does it. Instead of celebrating I had an insulted angry husband who was trying to understand how people can be like this.



But you live and learn - next time we will make sure we are somewhere where this will not happen again.



T

Teresa


Joined: 21/11/2007
Posts: 1018

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 15:41

Treesy i am English married to a Turkish Cypriot but unlike you i have kept my own faith for my own reasons. I do however respect the faith of the country i live in. Yesterday was spent visiting family and we were very lucky to be joined by 2 generals from the army. I was asked what i thought about this holiday and had no problem explaining to him that i found the slaughter of the animals very upsetting and had no desire to witness this act being carried out. as well as respecting his views he also respected mine. Of course you are bound to see this act being carried out if you are out and about but there is no need to be so rude to people just because they dont share your views.

Yes we chose to live here and i agree we should live by their rules but we are not of the same culture and people should be allowed to have their own views without being told to "go back to the UK"

Chessman


Joined: 13/05/2008
Posts: 486

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 15:53

Teresa



Well said. Incidentally, Abraham didn't sacrifice his son, did he? So why not follow his actions. That's more true to the story, isn't it?

Treesy


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 406

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 16:18

Chessman,



Abraham didn't sacrifice his son - because God told him not to, God then told him to sacrifice the sheep that appeared nearby. So your point is?



Teresa - I had my faith before I married because I chose it because I believe in it with all my heart. I was rude to one person after being very polite to all the other ladies - asking them nicely to use the other steps as we quickly cleaned the area of all traces and trying to ignore the comments said loud enough for us to hear - not intentionally I think - but when some one pulls a face at you and makes their disgust so clearly felt I reacted. I am human.



T

Chessman


Joined: 13/05/2008
Posts: 486

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 16:32

Tressy



I asked the question, hence the ? Simple really.

Treesy


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 406

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 16:43

Chessman said:

Well said. Incidentally, Abraham didn't sacrifice his son, did he? So why not follow his actions. That's more true to the story, isn't it?



In answer to you question then - no he didn't he sacrificed a sheep instead! Which is the truth of the story! Which is what we and millions of Muslims and Jews did yesterday.



Sorry, but still don't get the point your making.

Chessman


Joined: 13/05/2008
Posts: 486

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 16:50

Tressy



C'est la vie.



Incidentally I would be interested in your view on the second paragraph of msg77 on the thread 'Is there a God, will I go to hell?

Teresa


Joined: 21/11/2007
Posts: 1018

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 16:54

Treesy i think you have answered your own argument by saying you are only human, well so were those ladies and natural instinct takes over when you see something that you dont like, i am always pulling faces at things i dont like.

Iyi bayramlar

Treesy


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 406

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 16:59

Chessman



As for msg 77 - I would say its the usual 'women are treated as 2nd class citizens' stuff you here -normally as propaganda -against Islam especially.

Many cultures have taken things written in the Qur'an and manipulated them for their own ends.



In the Qur'an women are considered equal - albeit different roles - men MUST provide for their families and support them. Women give birth and nurture and educate their children. This is to ensure a healthy society. Of course there is more to it than this - but simply we are equal.



And from my reading of the Qur'an many times - no we do not serve men in Heaven - there is no need - there is no work, stress etc like this life.



I know many Turkish Muslims - some practicing some not - and what shocked me is how many of them can read the Qur'an in Arabic but do not understand what they are reading - they have never read it in their own language and cannot speak Arabic - just read it. And as learning about Islam is forbidden i

Treesy


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 406

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 17:05

Cont.



forbidden in schools they will learn via family first then maybe if their family is practicing they can go to one of the small Qur'an schools.



Unfortunately the truth can get lost very easily and things misinterpreted.



E.g. Friends mother in Ankara - when I asked which way to face to pray - pointed towards the direction of the Mosque (not Mecca)- and she prays herself now and again. Another Turkish friend (from Ismir) in Lapta put a blanket down for me to pray in her house and pointed it to the Mosque - I had to explain to her Mecca was the other way. So things can be lost/changed/manipulated etc.



My advice is read for yourself and ask many questions - this is what I do!



T

Chessman


Joined: 13/05/2008
Posts: 486

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 17:06

Tressy.



I am not sure if you have finished but thanks for the info. It's always interesting to learn about others beliefs.

Treesy


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 406

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 17:18

Teresa,



I agree - but the argument was that there was clear disgust there - which there was.



And as Turbo kindly advised in his message - just look away and don't show it - I was originally supporting his advice as by people showing it - we were insulted and became angry and upset because of it.



We live on the edge of a small village and the road is normally quiet as it was yesterday.



Being Bayram - we didn't expect a keep fit class to be held in the studio below that day. As it was the sheep was dead, skinned and in the process of being cut up as the ladies arrived - so no worse than a butchers window!



And I agree my actions were not in keeping with the spirit of the day.



Iyi bayramlar to you too.



T

jacktheladett


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 528

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 19:07

I've just seen this, and as I was first on the scene, have to add my comments.



Treesy, I'm pleased that you have put that your actions were not in keeping with the spirit of the day, as you were not only 'off' to one of my ladies, but also to me.



As I and 2 other ladies arrived, the sheep was actually being disembowelled, which unless you are used to that sort of thing, isn't a particularly nice thing to see. After you said to me, 'that's what they do here and if you don't like it you know what you can do', I explained it wasn't the act itself, just seeing a carcass and its innards, with the associated smells, outside the studio door first thing on a monday morning was not really palatable.



I'm sure that we are all sorry that your husband was offended, none of us have any problems with local customs at all, we are just squeemish women who are not used to seeing that sort of butchery. I would imagine quite a few 'local' ladies would not have enjoyed it either.

jacktheladett


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 528

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 19:10

So lets not read anything else into this, before it gets blown out of all proportion.



Apologies to your husband and his friends there was absolutely no disrespect meant.

jacktheladett


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 528

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 19:41

Just a comment on the parking, as Treesy asked.



We all parked where we usually park, in fact Carole parked right next to where the sheep was. The ladies that parked across the road usually park across the road, the lady that parked down the road, always parks down the road. She didn't see what was happening until she started walking up.



I parked closer to the steps at the far end as I'd got equipment to carry in.



The only person we saw becoming 'angry and upset' was you. I looked over and acknowledged a couple of the men and they smiled back, in-fact I heard laughing, which was probably at us, and completely understandable.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 19:46

"So lets not read anything else into this, before it gets blown out of all proportion. "



You don't seem to be able to do this....

jacktheladett


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 528

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 19:59

Not at all Groucho, just re-read the postings, and answered the question.

Treesy


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 406

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 20:05

Jacktheladett,



I can assure you I did not say 'if you don't like it you know what you can do'.



I will pass on your apologies to my husband and his friends and thank you for them on their behalf.



And as an end to this would you please pass on my apologies to the lady who I told to go back to England.



T

jacktheladett


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 528

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 20:12

Will do, thank you. (She was Cypriot, by the way.)

Treesy


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 406

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 20:15

JTL



Just saw your post about parking after my last reply. Does it really matter anymore -obviously.



By the time anyone parked next to the sheep it was gone and we were hosing down the steps - Earlier I was on the balcony while all the men were there - and you could see I was angry!!!! No I wasn't. Amused at grown women not being able to just ignore something they didn't like and walk past quietly-maybe.



The being angry and upset came later after you were eventually all inside and I was trying to calm down my offended husband.



I am not going to continue this as it serves no purpose - if you wish to email me you can ttagac@gmail.com.



T

Treesy


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 406

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 20:22

JTL,



She was Cypriot, you sure you have the right lady?, The one I spoke to didn't seem to know why there was blood on the floor, I had to tell her that it was Kurban Bayram - she didn't seem to understand -please check that you pass them on to the right lady.



Thanks



T