The cyprus problem

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
08/12/2008 22:18

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=69&sdetail=6788&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 11:57

Hi Paul



The Ceps report is even more pessimistic. Only 10% see a solution happening.

It's interesting that people see a solution in two years time and people have started to say it will happen when Turkey joins the EU.



Personally, I think the sides realise their just isn't enough trust right now for their to be a solution. Both sides need to work on trust and engagement to make things happen in the future. Of course, with the rise of the UBP this may now be difficult.



In regards to Turkey. Well, I have always felt that the wrong two sides were negotiationg. Negotiations should have been between Turkey and the ROC - Christofias and Erdogan. If these two sides came to an agreement then negotiations betwwen the TC's and GC's would go more smoothly.

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 12:35

The Cyprus problem will be solved when the rest of the world recognises the TRNC. This will start to happen once the current talks break down, which is inevitable as neither side can go back to its community for a referendum vote on a package which will suit both sides.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 12:38

in a referendum what % of people are needed to be a majority here in cyprus?

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 12:39

The greek Cyps will never accept Talats stance on "virgin Birth".So no settlement can be reached.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 15:16

Not amicably anyway.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 15:30

Paul, also not sure Talat and the TC's want to be subsumed in to the ROC. Probably not willing to give up the TRNC, it was hard gained, has developed and many people probably identify with it.



Taken from the Cyprus mail this morning



“The Turkish Cypriot side wants a footnote to be included which says that the two constituent states can also make international agreements within their own spheres of authority. This is objected to by the Greek Cypriot side,” said the Turkish reports.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 15:33

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/world/10536196.asp?gid=244



It seems that thetwo leaders are taking every opportunity to snipe. Todays Turkish news

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 21:26

Mark,

Seems to have turned into the irresistible force meeting the immovable object.In other words stalemate,

Paul

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 21:33

hi all It took the best part of 50 yrs to solve the NI situation and it will probably take the same lenght of time to solve the Cyprus situation.Classic case of one wont and the other one darent..As i have said before it doesnt matter what your opinions are,it will be the politicians who settle it whether you like it or not,soyou all might as well chill and stop worrying yourselves into an early grave...

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 22:23

coachie,



Why do you think it will be the politicians? The only people who can settle it is those Cypriots who will vote in a referendum on acceptance of a deal put forward...



The politicians would never impose a solution as that would be totally unnacceptable and too risky...

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
09/12/2008 22:45

Well its the politicians who are doing the negotiacians so I assume it will be those who thrash out a settlement as to what will be put forward for the people of both sides to vote on.Even then if the referendum was a close call there will be those who will not accept the outcome what ever the result is...

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 08:40

I do hope you are not suggesting that GCs would kick-off intercommunal violence again...

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 08:55

This is of course just my opinion but why would the trnc want to join forces with roc again, what would the benefit for them be...nothing...the embargoes this side should be lifted and the impoverishment and denial of human rights should be stopped with immediate effect...two countries. Allow the trnc to flourish and prosper as it should have done...





Long live the TRNC

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 12:31

I notice Pikey's not playing on this one - I think he also must realise a dead end street is a dead end street!

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 12:58

i was speaking to a friend a few days ago.

we were chatting about building his elderly mum a inside bathroom.



we got talking about what the uk system provides for the elderly and disabled in the uk.

his mum is a lovely lady and deserves better.

she will get her new inside bathroom, her son and my hubby are building it for her.

so with a solution i feel that the disabled people would benefit.

then get the same help as other e.u citizens.

just one benefit they would get with a solution.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 13:06

msge 15

The tide is not in their favour but I don't think it is dead and buried just yet. The two sides have hit this predictable impasse between devolved and federal governance.

Talat is called seeking an arbitrator to apply a universal standard to this deadlock. He has stated he does not trust the EU so is calling for the UN to apply the standard

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 16:38

I did not say the GC,s ,nor did I say the TC,s Groucho..I said there will be those who would not accept the out come what ever the result and will still stir up trouble..A lot of the ex-pat community wouldnt like it if it went against there wishes would they!!!What with dodgy land dealings and all.....

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 17:03

The ex-pats don't figure in this at all... and never will. Whatever is decided to be or not in the deal will be intended to be the best for the islanders... Of course the income derived from the ex-pat community will not be lost on the two sides... if it is the 40% of GDP in the TRNC stated recently is not a small consideration and of course a lot of people hope they won't be sold down the river....



Unfortunately some of the rhetoric being bandied about appears to sound the death knell for the negotiations... Going the extra mile will prove to be a very rocky road... let's just hope the talks don't implode over recriminations or lack of goodwill...

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 20:20

Hi All,

I am with mess 14 on this one.Give the north a chance aqnd let them stand on their own two feet.Lift embargos more infra structure and direct flights.Easy,so what was all the fuss about,

Paul.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 20:52

Frontal: "I notice Pikey's not playing on this one - I think he also must realise a dead end street is a dead end street!"



Nah, just in court and interviewing most of the morning and writing up this afternoon.



I've had a look at the report in msg 1. According to its own figures the piece shows that two-thirds of Greek Cypriots believe there will be a solution. Back at journalism school they taught us to report two-thirds as a majority, and one-third as a minority. So either the online edition of this paper is b*llocks, the printed one is b*llocks, or they are both b*llocks if they don't think anyone of average intelligence can recognise one of the worst examples of political spin.



But hey, it's fooled some people, eh?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 20:56

Groucho: "I do hope you are not suggesting that GCs would kick-off intercommunal violence again..."



You seem pretty confident only one side can be blamed for starting the trouble. Why so?

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 21:18

groucho you say the ex-pat community dont figure in it at all,then two sentances later you are suggesting that the ex-pat community input is 40% of GDP, I think some one is definately going to have to take that into consideration at the table,cos if it goes against you I can see a mass exodus from the Brits if they have to pay for there land again, so I think you do have a bearing on the outcome indirectly.....

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 21:29

I suppose that the lack of a T/C masterplan for total ethnic cleansing and the existence of one the G/Cs drew up is my biggest clue as to the true nature of the pre-74 state of affairs...



I use the phrase 'ethnic cleansing' here in its true meaning of extermination, to remove totally by killing an ethnic/religious group... Unilke your habit of using this term for people displaced to an area of safety albiet under threat of violence for non-compliance..



Yes I know Turks and Turkish Cypriots were guilty of acts of violence too but I've never heard even you claim that they had ambitions to take-over the whole island and drive the GCs off... This could easily have been achieved in 1974 should Turkey have so wished.. that they held off and brokered a peace agreement based on a bi-communal separation showed enormous restraint.

Which I find to their credit.



I don't believe the GCs would instigate inter-communal violence again. They have seen what it does - once is enough

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 21:33

Coachie: " I can see a mass exodus from the Brits if they have to pay for there land again, so I think you do have a bearing on the outcome indirectly."



On the other hand we can depart from a position of greed and selfishness and consider the rightful owners who haven't even been paid ONCE for their stolen property.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 21:44

Pikey did you pay "full market value" for your property or did you take advantage of the situation in North Cyprus and pick it up on the cheap

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 21:44

Groucho: "Yes I know Turks and Turkish Cypriots were guilty of acts of violence too but I've never heard even you claim that they had ambitions to take-over the whole island and drive the GCs off... This could easily have been achieved in 1974 should Turkey have so wished.. that they held off and brokered a peace agreement based on a bi-communal separation showed enormous restraint. Which I find to their credit."



So are we expected to praise Turkey for seizing only a third of Cyprus - amid some of the most appalling war crimes and international condemnation - and not grabbing the whole island? How can you find an internationally illegal act of invasion, partition and ethnic cleansing "to their credit"? And so what about the Akritas plan? The EOKA never achieved it, nor even attempted it. However, Turkey DID ethnically cleanse the best part of 180,000 Cypriots from their homelands.



Please remember some of us on this BB have more than one O level.

jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 21:49

well said turtle

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 23:43

Pike



Do you consider a would-be thief who gets no opportunity to steal and honest man? I don't...



"And so what about the Akritas plan? The EOKA never achieved it, nor even attempted it."



You admit that they did have an extermination plan but that's OK because they weren't too good at it, so they didn't get a chance.... doesn't mean they didn't intend to...



I won't stoop to your level over the last sentence as I know it means you are losing the argument...

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 23:55

Groucho: "Do you consider a would-be thief who gets no opportunity to steal an honest man? I don't..."



That's exactly the analogy you used when saying Turkey "deserved credit" for not seizing the whole island.



I don't accept any extermination plan. Show me a serious verification that makes Akritas out to be anything other than pie in the sky. It DIDN'T HAPPEN. However, the Turkish invasion and ethnic cleansing DID happen.



As for the last sentence, you actually don't need any O levels to know and do the right thing in Cyprus. Moral integrity has no intelligence. ;)

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 00:01

A levels are better than O levels anyday

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 09:02

Yeah but no but yeah but he's got more than one so that's... err two then.



Why are you shouting Pike... is it because you feel frustrated that nobody, Suzanne aside, will agree with you?



The Akritas plan existed alright and was the work of the devil... That people like Papaduplictous were leading lights in this truly awful society of racist thugs should stand testament to all pervading nature of their continuing influence in the psyche of the Greek Cypriots and Greeks... lets face it they kept a man with blood on his hands in power for quite some time....



But you'll have loved that being anti-Turkish and therefore anti-Turkish Cypriot as you clearly demonstrate by your continued postings of propaganda of a most vitriolic nature...



That you appear to judge your fellow man on the number of O levels is a matter for you...

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 09:36

Pike



"So are we expected to praise Turkey for seizing only a third of Cyprus - amid some of the most appalling war crimes and international condemnation"



I'm glad you agree that the international condemnation was appalling as were the war crimes of the Greeks.... ;¬) (I know what you meant - but I read what you put... not too clever for a clever thing...)



To answer your loaded question... Yes, I do praise their restraint because unlike the Greek inspired actions they did not take the clear opportunity to seize the whole island and drive the Greeks into the sea...



Some would say more's the pity but I'm not one of those...



I find the West's international condemnation to be mealy-mouthed racism wrapped in moral indignation and somewhat ill-founded... being based on politico-religious alignment not the rights or wrongs of the situation...



I detect in you a deep seated loathing of things Turkish.. Why you have bought property here I find puzzling...

gibson335


Joined: 01/11/2008
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 09:40

Yet more unbalanced ranting from THE (UNST)ABLE SEAMAN but no sign of his echo .



So he has 2 O levels which at least shows he went to school as I was beginning to wonder. Then again O levels are so much easier to obtain than in my day and it is obvious from this that you get them for nothing these days.



Clearly hasn't done his homework on The Akritas Plan and the G.C plan to commit Genocide ( there's a surprise) or is simply in denial of it. I actually find it quite sad that someone seems to spend their entire life looking at Threads to hijack with his own illogical and warped political views.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 12:10

what ever someones views on the subject are, the facts of it are that both sides are to blame.

we could also blame the uk,greece,turkey and the un.

but it is up to the individual to have the right to believe the view of their choice.

both sides did terrible things to each other.

we are nearly at 2009, people need to move on.

it is no good crying and crying over spilt milk.

i look forward to the day when all cypriots have a fair and just solution for all of cyprus.

there is no place in a modern world for any kind of racism.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 12:16

Good comment firestarter..this is what they decidedto doin NI and at the moment things are going well......

Steve1953



Joined: 04/12/2008
Posts: 298

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 13:34

As a fairly recent visitor to this site,and trying to complete an open mind on this complex issue,following a visit to the North 18 months ago.It is a pity that the international community do not debate the Cyprus issue more fully. The BBC broadcast last year on the Cyriot community in London - it is after all the largest group of Cypriots outside Nicosia - and both turks and greeks get along. What are they doing right?

From my own knowledge the greek church (who own large chunks of land and stocks on the Nicosia exchange have a great bearing on the issue. As firestarter says things have moved on,but negotiations may be better if they involved ALL the representatives on the everyday turk and greek cypriot,two members of the churches,a director from Papantonious and Lemar supermarkets etcie that goes beyond the politians. Busloads of families/villages (especially near the borders)should initially be allowed over at Christmas and Easter as a gesture of goodwill. contd

Steve1953



Joined: 04/12/2008
Posts: 298

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 13:42

Basic commonsense seems to go out of the window - as in NIreland,some sort of well known trusted mediator on the Terry Waite/Lawrence Durrell mold could assist. Even victims on both sides could meet in the same way as WW1 veteran Harry Patch and his german opposite number, in order to stop this useless impass continuing. Unfortunately,we may not have the political leadership available to positively intervene as I have suggested above ... but maybe some greek/turkish cypriots on both sides of the island/London/Istanbul/Athens etc may note the advice on this website. Good luck and God bless to everyone,kind regards,Steve

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 13:48

Fire starter just look at this way....



The Turkish Intervention was the biggest f*ck-off ASBO of the 70's...

bachelibelly


Joined: 04/09/2008
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 15:46

Pity we cant look at the video evidence ,works in Rugby and Cricket.



Piss on earth and a good Will is essential !!!

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 16:36

msge 37 and 38 what you say seems to make a lot of sense.



It seems that Cypriots do get on in the UK, so why can't they do so in their own country.

Often Cyprus is compared to Northern Ireland, and there is good reason to make that comparison, but for me their is one major difference, in that, the people in Cyprus are separated. Unless someone can correct me, (as I don't know the NI issue very well) the people with opposing ideoligies in NI lived together but did so in fear. I would imagine people in NI just god fed up with this way of living, especially literally living side by side and hence wanted a solution.

Dr Martin Mansergh a minister form the ROI, who was recently in Cyprus said for there to be a solution the majority have to want it.

Cypriots don't live in fear, so hence, don't have the same motivation as the Irish to create a solution. It seems that the majority in Cyprus want a solution, but each side wants it on their own strict and highly demanding terms.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 16:41

As the two Cypriot communities do not live together, there are two major problems. One is that each side has created their own systems. Systems, once set up, become damn hard to change, they take on a power of their own. Secondly, there are limited opportunities to build and devlop trust and cooperation. Each side will then stick to their history and stories.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 16:56

In terms of systems, the political structure, and the boundary of the system (land) the GC's want to increase their system, so it encompasses the North, whereas the TC's have no desire in expanding their system, but at the same time they have no desire to decrease the size of their system. Hence we have an impasse.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 17:15

Groucho: "Why are you shouting Pike..."



I'm not shouting - that's done with CAPITAL letters on a BB. I'm simply proving you wrong both morally and on the historical points of fact, as usual.



Groucho: "I detect in you a deep seated loathing of things Turkish."



So why would I have a Turkish-title house in Turkish Cyprus? Just because you can't argue with me and you're all annoyed, you've decided I "loathe" Turkish things.



Doesn't your rather strange reaction - intolerance of alternative views and apparent support of Turkish war crimes - have more to do with living in a paranoid backwater and having a grandpappy who was a Pasha in the Imperial Ottoman Army?

gibson335


Joined: 01/11/2008
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 18:49

Msg 21



Much like what you say is b------- as we can all see through your Political spin!!!



As for your denial of the Akritas Plan and it's aims it merely shows how ill read you are on the situation here despite your blustering about how much knowledge you claim to have

No difference there then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gibson335


Joined: 01/11/2008
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 19:28

Hey Little Boy in the Sailor Suit



Just re-read msg 21 and it would seem from what you say that you are a journalist ( sorry I'm trying to write this while laughing myself to bursting!!!!!!)



I wouldn't have thought The Daily Sport would have been interested in Court proceedings in the T.R.N.C.

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 19:44

I detect in you a deep seated loathing of things Turkish.. Why you have bought property here I find puzzling...





he bought it thinking it would earn him a quick buck, and couldnt stand the pace lol

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 20:21

Groucho: "The Turkish Intervention was the biggest f*ck-off ASBO of the 70's..."



I don't think the Turkish Cypriots share your flippancy about the Turkish invasion. They have been isolated, impoverished and outnumbered by foreigners as a direct result of Turkey's illegal partition and occupation of Cyprus. Meanwhile the Greek Cypriots rebuilt a thriving economy. So who has this "ASBO" of yours really hurt?



I think your colonial mentality is clouding your judgement.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 20:29

msge 48

CEPS survey - 93% of TC's are happy with the Turlish army. You are just talking for the minority of TC's . You need to remember that.



The CEPS survey also highlighted that the TC's blame the GC's, the EU and the International community for their isolation. You are talking for yourself, highlighting your own views, not the majority of TC's

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 20:30

gibson335,



Do you have a thing about little boys in sailor suits? You seem to be repeating the phrase in every post. There are some websites out there that may interest you, but I can't post the links on this forum. E-mail me off-board. Happy hunting!

bachelibelly


Joined: 04/09/2008
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 20:40

FAO. Eric "the Enosis" Seans . How about posting an actual reply to mesg 26 ,you are long overdue a factual post,or possibly even a truthful reply, either would make a refreshing change,go on try it . AND save us all ringing the Samaritans !

gibson335


Joined: 01/11/2008
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 20:40

You seem not to understand (now that's not surprising) that the term relates to ridicule as so many on here use it.



Funny how you know about certain types of links though!!!!!!!!

The picture possibly tells the truth eh??????????????

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 20:51

Groucho,



Tell me more about this Akritas plan for extermination and ethnic cleansing of the Turkish Cypriots. And I mean serious independent analysis.



I did find one reference to it on a Dutch conflict studies website and here are a few extracts:



(iv) That the co-existence of the two communities is possible,



(i) The Greek efforts are directed towards removing unreasonable and unfair

provisions of administration and not to oppress the Turkish Cypriots;



(iv) The issue of revision is an internal affair of the Cypriots and does not give the right of military or other intervention;



(v) The proposed amendments are reasonable, just, and safeguard the reasonable rights of the minority.



Since we do not intend, without provocation, to attack or kill Turks...





Ethnic cleansing? Extermination? Not a mention anywhere. And it's attributable to NOBODY. Did Denktas write it? Do you still believe in Father Christmas?



http://www.conflictstudies.nl/access/wiki/site/conflictst

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 21:22

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=69&sdetail=6846&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=



Just an update on thread.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 22:25

Hear, hear, Suz.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 22:28

As expected,

There are clear factions appearing in this thread.

Let there be no misunderstanding. There is a solution to the Cyprus problem.

There is clear evidence that a solution, however slow its approach, is there.

The "Problem" is diminishing with time, there has ben a slow decline in the fanatical and radical factions and their antagonistic views upon the problem.

Borders have opened. Talks are taking place. There is an international desire for peace. There are clear European Union aspirations for a settlement plan.

Foreign investors in both North and South encourage a settlement.



What is without doubt . There will be no mass evictions, No mass movements of populations or ethnic cleansing to satisfy an age old title or land claim.



More likely to be a compromise to meet as many aspirations of all parties, including foreign investors.

The sooner the radical die hards realise that things are moving foward and accept compromise then the inevitable sotution will arrive.

jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 22:29

so who's got a gc house then. it seems now that north cyprus is a property hotspot the gc's suddenly want a part of it and they owned everything, Perrrrr"

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 22:35

bechelibelly,



You want to know if I paid the full market value for my property, you nosy old thing? You bet I did. It was a good few years ago now - possibly when you'd have struggled to find Cyprus on a map - but I got a big detached five-apartment house with garage on a good corner plot with well, gardens and orchard for £32,000. Pre-74 Turkish title, of course. And you?

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 22:49

pike



its called theft ,again from the turkish.

so you really must stop calling everyone else thieves.



musin

long live the kktc

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 23:03

Suzane and Pike.



Lower your aspirations, consider the compromise, support a settlement and welcome the inevitable solution.

jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 23:05

I wonder if pike drinks in the stolen bars and shops in the stolen supermarkets,i bet his gc friends would love him contributing to the trnc economy.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 23:06

Waz, you are absolutely right but don't hold your breath

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 23:12

waz valid



jay very good points ,i don,t even think pike has thought about it from that angle.







musin

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 23:34

Waz,

Very optimistic posts,well written and points well made.but why do you think that a solution is inevitable,

Paul.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 23:51

dodger,



The international community led by the EU have asspirations for settlement and stability on Cyprus. The ball is rolling, be it rather slowly. Pressure upon ROC, Turkey, TRNC will continue behind the scene of the current talks.

The financial clout and political will of the EU, IMF and UN will prevail.





Also,Cyprus has significant strategic position placed where it is, close to middle east,

strategically secure, being an island. A stable and possibly unified member state of the European Union has vey distinct advantages over the current situation.

All thing considered, a solution is inevitable sooner or later.

For all the inhabitants of Cyprus.. sooner the better.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
12/12/2008

Pike



"I don't accept any extermination plan. Show me a serious verification that makes Akritas out to be anything other than pie in the sky. It DIDN'T HAPPEN. However, the Turkish invasion and ethnic cleansing DID happen. "



"Ethnic cleansing? Extermination? Not a mention anywhere. And it's attributable to NOBODY. Did Denktas write it? Do you still believe in Father Christmas? "



"I'm not shouting - that's done with CAPITAL letters on a BB. I'm simply proving you wrong both morally and on the historical points of fact, as usual. "



Did you miss something? looks like some shouting to me...



"They have been isolated, impoverished and outnumbered by foreigners as a direct result of Turkey's illegal partition and occupation of Cyprus. Meanwhile the Greek Cypriots rebuilt a thriving economy."



It is not the Turkish who isolate the TRNC it is the Greeks and the Greek Cypriots.. they alone have held them back by refusing to allow free trade with the rest of the world...

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 00:01

Waz,

What sort of time scale do you envisage,

Paul.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 00:16

Paul,

The pressure is on.

Turkey aspires to EU membership, the Cyprus issue is a hinderence to their aspiration.

ROC is under pressure from EU...some members regret their fast track membership to EU whilst the "problem" is still there.



UN would like to vacate from their low threat, low risk presence.

USA with Mr Obama in control would welcome the potential of this island staging post to middle east.



How long? Probably a 2 to 10 years slow continuation of convergence, tolleration and interdependance. The Solution will not arrive as a single agreement but a conglomeration of concessions and tollerances.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 00:23

msge 69



Great post

Steve1953



Joined: 04/12/2008
Posts: 298

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 01:15

Went on a dolmus into Nicosia 2 weeks ago. I hear the messages from Pikey and others of opposing views - no wonder there is no chance of an imminent solution. Maybe I'm missing something ,but simple everyday events are producing tension - which is unhelpful and unhealthy.

Glaring mistrust especially on the greek side. Examples being no foreign exchanges anywhere on the greek side. On turkish side,exchanges within yards of Ledra Palace and shopping centre. Cyprus Museum wouldn't take sterling,never mind t.lira. Turkish sides much more relaxed - anybody taken trouble to find out why? As Pikey almost points out,the GC's could" buy out" the TC's- hence there will have to be a gradual phasing in of land issues.Still think that widening the debate in more constructive manner is best way forward - maybe Pikey,and others with opposite vs know someone in high places that can explore the comments displayed here.... perhaps over an Efes or Keo,what about it guys and gals?Regards to all,Steve

gibson335


Joined: 01/11/2008
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 09:41

Msg62/64



Too true but you have to remember that The Little Boy in the Sailor Suit only "says" that the T.R.N.C. and all it stands for is wrong. In reality he is happy to put his money into an "illegal" economy and live in an "illegal" Country.



Hypocrite or what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 10:17

steve

we cross over into nicosia on a weekly basis.

we have only once in that time had any problem.(that was with gc customs)

i don't know where the looks of glaring mistrust came from, maybe your own paranoia?

you can exchange money at the bank or get cash at any atm machine.



we take our tc friends and never have they had a problem with anyone either.

some of these people had not been south since before 1974.

they now realise that it is safe and that the gc's are not the enemy of the past.

time has moved on.

many travel south to meet old friends, medical treatment, shopping , work and hold roc passports.

since living here, i have made friends on both sides of the island, but then i don't look at it as tc or gc, i take all people on their own merit.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 10:34

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/10551338.asp?gid=244



I find it quite amazing that even at this stage the GC's tried to stop Talat meeting with the EU commissioner. This is extraordinary.

gibson335


Joined: 01/11/2008
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 12:35

ILC



I am not surprised in the slightest. The G.C. way is to be nice to your face and stab you in the back( or the front or wherever they can get the knife in ) at every opportunity. Who the hell wants to live with that

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 12:37

Even some expatriate GC's are suporting division





I don’t think a united island will work



Sir,



Your article dated “Does anyone really want reunification” (Sunday Mail, November 30) made sense. The article stated that there is mistrust, resentment and bad faith on both sides and that the possibility of reunification was minimal.



The question was asked to consider the possibility of formalising our long separation as this would have much more public support than any attempt at reunification.



I do not believe reunification can take place. If relations where to be formalised there would have to be some land adjustments. The Turkish side currently occupies 37 per cent of the total area of Cyprus and prior to 1974 the Turkish Cypriots never constituted more than 20 per cent of the total population, perhaps Varosha could be returned to the Greek side?

There also needs to be compensation for both sides that lost properties or land.

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 12:37

When formalising relations between the two states, what do you call both sides: North and South Cyprus or the Republic of Cyprus and TRNC or do we come with two new names?



You also have to consider a new flag for the Greek side as the map of all of Cyprus in yellow is a hope of reunification and not necessarily the current reality.



I don’t think the Turkish side wants to move 120,000 plus settlers as well as 40,000 troops to mainland Turkey just to join the EU.



This is the harsh reality that some Greek Cypriot politicians including the current president have not come to terms with. The majority of both people want separation with good neighbourly ties.



George Georgiou,



Australia



Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2008

Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 12:53

An idea.....why not have 2 states with different police, governers, etc etc ( like they do in the USA between the states...but under one banner of United Cyprus! ....flag could be the island , top half red, bottom yellow ...lets look for resolutions, not hurdles..what do you think?....North Cyprus will become part of the EU before Turkey..in my opinion

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 13:15

msge 76



Interesting post Aussie



Andre 514 asked the question 'Who is hyping up the reunification? I think it still remains a very valid question

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 14:10

stewart

would you not like your e.u rights down there in esentepe?

i had to check where you were from after your post.

they are the rights of tc's as well.

clearly living here stops you having them, maybe you have only just arrived and not realised?

all this one rule for cypriots and another for the expats.

you see this in action every day.

we should all have equal and fair treatment, along with the same benefits as every other e.u. citizen.

we choose to live here and have to accept that, but what about those cypriots who are missing out because of the political situation here.

it is unfair.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 22:11

Fire starter, You have the right idea.

European rights must become an aspiration for the TRNC. This may be on the back of Turkish enrollment, on the back of ROC membership or possibly as a self governing Republic.



The advantages are numerous. Access to financial,social,political and military assistance. A dissapearance of trade and travel restrictions resulting in economic progress.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 22:14

Aussie/ILC



It is an interesting article...



Did you notice the problematic arithmetic in the article... only 20% of the population but 37% of the land... It's a common mistake to use number of people to proportion of land...



For example.... If the Turkish 20% of the population were nearly all farmers and the 80% Greek Cypriot's were mostly not farmers, then the T/Cs land holding could quite easily add up to 37% of the land mass as farmer's holdings would, quite naturally, tend to be larger than normal domestic holdings...



I'm not saying this is an exact science but you get the idea.. that it's not relevant to compare numbers of population with percentage of land on their own without some investigation as to the land use involved.



Take the farmers of European origin in South Africa, where maybe one percent of the population farmed over 85% of the farm land and you will see what I'm saying...

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 22:38

msge 82



Hi Gavin



Yes I have noticed this, but didn't pay much attention to it in the article, probably as I have seen it many times.



Clearly, based on their argument people in the major cities of the world are getting a bad deal and need to reclaim more of the countryside.

In fact, I think the Australians (sorry Aussie) have got far too much land for their head count. Lets all take a slice.



You are right, it is too simple to compare land mass with population size. The quality of the land, in terms of it's potential yield, be that in terms of crops, minerals, tourist potential, potential to build -basically it's wealth potentail need to be considered.



Just another big problem to work out.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 23:39

Groucho,



Should I start a thread about Akritas or would you like to put it to bed yourself?

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 02:11

Waz,

Positive,Optimistic posts we can only hope,

Paul

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 02:21

Pikey,

Time to move on.

Amber


Joined: 26/09/2008
Posts: 561

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 10:58

Waz,



Glad to see somebody being positive on this thread. I was beginning to think my husband was the only person on the island convinced a settlement would occur. Although he thinks it will happen soon. I have to say I do not share his optimism on that score.

ronaldo


Joined: 14/11/2007
Posts: 372

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 11:38

Message 73. i have made friends on both sides of the island, but then i don't look at it as tc or gc, i take all people on their own merit. But as you say (we take our tc friends) and never have they had a problem with anyone either. You take your TC friends ! that statement sums it up you take you dont travel with them. you Take ! how you and others on this forum think about TCs sums it up! Ronaldo

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 11:49

http://arama.hurriyet.com.tr/arsivnews.aspx?id=10550912



This article points out that Christofias is disappointed with Talat. When both were opposition party leaders both agreed on the slogan 'Cyprus for the Cypriots' and 'to remove the Turkish army'. Talat now talks about two separate people and insists on the Turkish army guarantorship. His stance now reflects that of the Turkish government.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 12:12

Groucho: "It is not the Turkish who isolate the TRNC it is the Greeks and the Greek Cypriots.. they alone have held them back by refusing to allow free trade with the rest of the world..."



Yet another myth you like to peddle - along with the "extermination plan" you now seem less keen to discuss.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 12:13

Mark,

until the troops are withdrawn there will never be a solution i.m.o.

Paul.

ronaldo


Joined: 14/11/2007
Posts: 372

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 12:18

Pike, Akritas Plan , Try reading Glafkos Clerides autobiography "My Deposition" volume 1 published in 1988 . Yorgadis Chief Akritas" eokar terroist. yes Pike lets have a debate on the Akritas plan Patris news paper 1963.Ron(aldo)

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 12:50

msge 91



Agrre with you Paul.



Certainly agree with WAZ about the 'big boys' working behind the scene to make things happen, but the French seem to be giving Turkey a hard time again. I guess it's there job too, as they head the EU presidency at the moment. I'm not sure who is going to throttle Sarkozy first Erdogan or, as it has been rumoured, Merkel the German President might pull the trigger first.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 14:04

ronaldo,



Where in the Akritas plan is there anything about the extermination or genocide of Turkish Cypriots? Because this has been the Turkish nationalist position for decades and it appears to be nothing but hot air and utterly false.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 14:45

There appears to be several references to military presence on Cyprus and the obsticle that this is creating to any movment toward settlement.



ROC is an EU member and there is very significan British (EU) troop presence in the ROC. TRNC is not an EU member and there is significant Turkish military presence in the TRNC.



Withdrawl of troops on either side is not really on the cards unless it is unilateral.

Military presence on the Island is divided into two distinct agendas.

TRNC...to offer protection to its inhabitants.

ROC... providing staging post for military operations by EU,and its allies in the Middle East.

The Political powers of particularly ROC cannot expect TRNC military to depart without withdrawl concessions of EU troops in the South.

This will not happen because of the strategic value and geographic position of the Island.



In my view, Turkish troops in TRNC will be present until TRNC/Turkey become part of EU and then at least a miitary unification is probable.

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 14:53

Erm...

I don't think that there are any British troops actually IN the ROC.

The ones that are 'here' are on British Sovereign Territory - a bit like Gibraltar (not quite the same, I know, just trying to make the point).

If I'm wrong, I'm sure that PP will enlighten us!

Keith.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 16:06

The ROC have countered Turkish troops with some of the highest military expenditure in the world in terms of GDP. Looks like the South is about to order some more weaponry from Russia.



It may also be likely that the US has flown missions out of the North.

gibson335


Joined: 01/11/2008
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 18:26

THE (UNST)ABLE SEAMAN msg90



It is impossible to debate with someone who denies the fact that documentary evidence does exist re the Akritas Plan as per Ronaldo's post and other sources



Msg94



you would know of course about "hot air" and being "utterly false" as that is something you ARE an expert on, unlike the history of Cyprus. Need I say more!!!!!!!!

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 19:04

message 98,

I am by no means a crony of PP, but would YOU like to provide a link to the

"..documentary evidence (that) does exist re the Akritas Plan as per Ronaldo's post.."

I, for one would be fascinated to read it.

Best regards,

Keith.

ronaldo


Joined: 14/11/2007
Posts: 372

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 19:04

So Pike" you deny once again ! about the atrocities the greeks commited in Cyprus ! Bet you also deny the existence of the Nazi holocaust. Open your eyes ! and when you do "and see the truth "you may be able to look forward. and become at peace within yourself. It must be awfull to have resentment to your fellow human beings as you do! Ron(aldo)

gibson335


Joined: 01/11/2008
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 19:21

Keithcaley



Read Ronaldo's post and it gives you the references!!!!!!!!!!!!

ronaldo


Joined: 14/11/2007
Posts: 372

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 20:26

On Oct. 23, 1967, in a speech delivered on U.N. Day, Tassos Papadopoulos said: �Today, the meaning of freedom for us is the consolidation of national identity in the outpost of Hellenism.� The ambition to enhance such national identity was the inspiration behind the massacres in Geçitkale and Bo?aziçi which came a month after that infamous speech, on Nov. 15, 1967. These massacres were carried out systematically. come on Pike how much evidence do you require.

ronaldo


Joined: 14/11/2007
Posts: 372

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 22:36

Keithcaley Just google Akritas plan you will find all the info you need! Or research Glafcos Clerides autobiography. Akritas Enosis one of the same" or try reading the Genocide Files " in this book there are copies of orginal documents . Plus photos of the butchering by ...... of innocent women and children. Ron(aldo)

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 23:17

Ere Pikey, he's mentioned the Genocide Files, where are you?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 23:18

ronaldo,



I already did some research on Akritas - and there are NO serious or independent sources to suggest ANY plans to exterminate or ethnically cleanse Turkish Cypriots.



All these years I've heard certain people ranting on about the Akritas Plan (Genocide Files) and how the evil Greeks planned to wipe out the Turkish Cypriots. But now I know there's a lot of silly billies out there whose heads zip up the back.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 23:21

ronaldo msg 102,



Your post is meaningless without sources or references. It's the kind of thing some fools will believe just because they read it. Must try harder...

Steve1953



Joined: 04/12/2008
Posts: 298

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 02:03

I think trouble is that both sides should move on and try to be flexible.Leave the military in ,but allow free movement at certain times ... if ok ,increase it...and see.



Both sides need Terry Wogan to lighten things up -its a glorified manuravision,but each side has nul points,and cant move forward for political and historical reasons . Maybe me and Pickey need to sort things out with the 2 leaders,bang their heads together,and move on .... come on Pikey,how about it .... use your influence? Steve

ronaldo


Joined: 14/11/2007
Posts: 372

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 09:48

Pike do you deny that genocide took place on Cyprus?

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 11:24

Pikey doesn't even believe there's a Santa Claus!

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 11:59

http://arama.hurriyet.com.tr/arsivnews.aspx?id=10557676

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 13:38

ronaldo: "Pike do you deny that genocide took place on Cyprus?"



If you want a serious answer you'd better specify exactly when are you talking about.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 13:50

Msg 96 and 97..reply.



Soveriegn territory is not really the issue. The presence of British troops on the Island are allied to the ROC by virtue of their allegence to the European Union.



European troops have no allegence to Turkey or TRNC.



Very unlikely that USA have flown military missions from TRNC. USA have facilities in Northern Turkey and ertainly need to keep in favour with Turkey.

USA will surely support entry of Turkey into EU in order to strengthen their reliance upon their bases in Turkey.



The ROC may well be increasing their military arsenal. However, the ROC will never be considered as a major military force. They are simply too small a fish.

It is their EU membership and the might of the Union that offers the ROC protection and support. I expect that ROC is very happy wih EU military pressence on the Island.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 14:09

WAZ: "European troops have no allegence to Turkey or TRNC."



With respect, most European countries do indeed have allegience to Turkey by virtue of Nato membership - whose doctrine is "an attack upon one is a attack upon all".

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 14:30

PP

You are absolutely correct with regard to NATO.

However there is clear allegence between Union members above and beyond NATO.

The allegence that I refer to should indeed reflect allegence that is military, economic and governance.



The European Union continues to expand its influence across all its members. Military co-operation and combination continues to develop.



Turkey, whilst not a Union member, is somewhat out in the cold from these developments.

I see that NA Treaty is not the influencial force that it once was as the Union goes from strength to strength.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 14:30

Dodging the real issues is an art well rehearsed.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 14:40

Says the man with nary an opinion on anything.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 15:34

Tiggy,

What is the direction /target of this post?

gibson335


Joined: 01/11/2008
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 19:07

Yet more hot air and crap from The Little Boy in the Sailor Suit. The main problem is that half witted people only read one side's version without recourse to the other side. This is clearly what The Little Boy has done all his life rather than those of us who have taken the reouble to look at both side's. His continued denial of The Akritas Plan is clear evidence of this approach despite the fact that his chums in the South have aknowledged it as a fact.

I for one am not going to bother pointing this out to fools and idiots who refuse to accept truth as I have better things to do with my time than converse with second hand journalists and their cronies who wouldn't know the truth if it bit them on the a--e

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 19:19

Gibson , not personally aware of the actual truth of the argument, but I do admire your conviction.

gibson335


Joined: 01/11/2008
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 19:32

Frontalman



Maybe not but i bet he likes Fairies as I think most of his info seems to come from Ga Ga land









Little Boy In the Sailor Suit.



As you have declined my offer to introduce you to some T.C's who were willing to inform you of what actually happened I can only assume it is because you are unwilling to be humiliated in front of people ( even though you are humiliated on this Forum constantly

ronaldo


Joined: 14/11/2007
Posts: 372

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 20:17

If you want a serious answer you'd better specify exactly when are you talking about. Pike try the period 1963 to 1968 december the 21st at 2.10am Zeki Halil Karabuluk and Jemaliyeh Emir. Genocide the extermination of the Cyprus Turks started !

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 23:34

pilgrim: "Gibson , not personally aware of the actual truth of the argument, but I do admire your conviction."



He does come across as one with a bit of "previous", but actually admiring criminality is surely a bit off.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 23:37

ronaldo,



Are you suggesting two fatalities constitutes genocide? You have to be more specific and explain which particular act was genocidal. It shouldn't be difficult because if you are right the United Nations and Red Cross will know all about it and there will be sources all over the internet.



But funnily enough...

ronaldo


Joined: 14/11/2007
Posts: 372

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 23:54

Pike please dont just read what you want to ! If you read my post , It states this was the start of the genocide " But please answer my previous question do you deny that genocide took place on Cyprus?"

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 10:17

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=69&sdetail=6885&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=



For your info,

Paul.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 11:34

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/world/10570510.asp?gid=244

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 11:37

Could we keep this topic at the top please,

Paul

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 11:39

ronaldo,



I don't deny genocide may have taken place in Cyprus centuries ago. But I can't think of any recent examples. Put me out of my misery and tell me what I've missed.

gibson335


Joined: 01/11/2008
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 16:07

Little Boy in the Sailor Suit



How about the truth for a start. If you don't ,as appears likely, understand the meaning of truth I would strongly suggest you simply observe other peoples posts as incompetence is unbecoming although you do provide us all with a good laugh now and then

Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 16:36

Dear Firestarter

FYI....I am not from "down there at Esentepe" I am from the EU...I said that "In my opinion" that NC will join the EC before Turkey, that also means TCs.

With regards to you wanting equal rights as other EU citizens, quite right, while we are on the subject, you being a TC, why is it EU citizens, like me and expats, are expected to pay different prices ( ie water and electric meters ) from TCs....lets campaign for equal rights for all...not just when it suits.

ps.

The best unbiased account that I have read regarding the Cyprus issue, is a book called "The Cyprus Conspiracy"...by an Irish reporter Brendan O'Malley

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 16:56

Gibson335..I can see from your posts that you have an immense dislike of pvt.pike ,along with numerous others ,but it would be nice if you referred to him by his name as per the board rules.I am quite surprised that the moderators have not picked you up on that point....

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 17:36

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=123&sdetail=6889&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate= More info.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 17:44

Coachie,

Steady on mate you will spill your red wine, lol

gibson335


Joined: 01/11/2008
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 18:16

Coachie msg131



You are right in your first statement but where do you get "numerous others" ?



There are two people who I have a problem with simply because of their blinkered ,unfounded and illogical rants against this Country. I have chosen to live in this Country and am prepared to stand up against idiotic lies which fail to tell anywhere near the truth and against people who use this Forum for their own political machinations. One of the names I have given him has slao been used by a Mod in the past!!!

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 18:17

Coachie msg 131,



I appreciate your comments but fear your faith in our expanded moderating team is sadly misplaced.

ronaldo


Joined: 14/11/2007
Posts: 372

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 22:29

Pike, ( Put me out of my misery and tell me what I've missed.) Wish someone would put you out of your misery . Seems to me you cannot give a straight and honest answer " to anyone who asks you a straight forward question ? So do you deny that Genocide was commited in Cyprus ? Are you suggesting two fatalities constitutes genocide? These fatalties as you refer to, Were" cold blooded murders ! Carried out in the turkish quarter of Nicosia. The start of Genocide of the Turkish Cypriots.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 22:34

Gibson335..I say numerous others dont like him from reading most of the posts on this board.Well if a mod has used that term he ought to stand down as a mod.He may be everything you say but he is still entitled to called by his correct name on this board.

Dodger ..not much chance of that happening mate....

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 22:45

Coachie,



Please don't include me in the numerous you refer to...

LondonCypriot


Joined: 15/12/2008
Posts: 426

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 22:55

There will never be an Cyprus Solution. Very hard and very very difficult. Each side wants too much from the other. I can't see any solution. I am sorry but I am being honest.

ronaldo


Joined: 14/11/2007
Posts: 372

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 23:07

LondonCypriot Never say never. I believe there will " be a solution Cyprus and the reason being is that there is at long last political will . From both sides . It will be very difficult but who would have thought the ireland problem would ever be resolved.

Regard Ron(aldo)

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 23:08

London C

If you mean a re-unification of the populus as a whole then you may well be correct. For the forseable future.

However,

A solution which allows North and South to exhist together as equals and both as member states of EU. This is acheivable and with time increased convergence of the populus will eventually lead to a reunification. OK this may take many many years. The Island is too small to effectively remain seperated for ever.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 23:11

Groucho..No names no pack drill comes to mind....

moomoo


Joined: 15/12/2008
Posts: 18

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 23:40

I am a Turkish Cypriot living in London. I am delighted to have British people living in North Cyprus. Welcome our brothers just as you welcomed us in your homeland.



Do not listen to the rhetoric. It is NOT compossible for the two sides to live as one country. I was a child in 1974 when Turkey LIBERATED us. We were suppossed to live in one country then but had one Turkish film all year as a "treat" on state TV. Also how about the Turks who lost their homes in the SOUTH??? So.. Eye for an eye. simple as that. Also as so many times mentioned the EOKA (Greeks) started this all.



They even painted stuff on walls for Turkey saying "If you think you can take us come on".. Well I guess we did..



While I aknowledge there are good and bad in all.. I cannot see the Greeks ever giving the Turks a fair deal.



Unfotunately the Greeks are great at propoganda.. But I hipe the Turks are also learning it. Greek Delight, Greek Kebab my foot!!!

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 23:55

ronaldo,



I was being kind to you. There has been NO genocide of Turkish Cypriots. Only a fool would claim such a thing.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 00:07

pike

how many languages do you speak.







musin

LondonCypriot


Joined: 15/12/2008
Posts: 426

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 00:14

To be quite honest everyone knows that there will never be a solution.

Never will the Greeks allow the Turkish Cypriots to have their own state. Mr Talat made it quite clear he wants an Turkish Cypriot state where as the Greek Cypriots want one state, they also want a huge chunk of Turkish nationals who arrived after 1974 to leave the island.



There are also issues with gurantorship. Greeks want the Turkish Cypriots to abandon the Turkeys gurantorship and impose an EU gurantorship. Both sides want too much from one another. The Turkish Army has redlines which Mr Talat cannot cross. I doubt there will never be an solution. Greek Cypriots will never accept an Turkish Cypriot independent or loose confederation.

ronaldo


Joined: 14/11/2007
Posts: 372

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 00:24

Pike Thanks for being Kind To me ! But Alas i am no fool. Only fools dont see the truth . Could you please tell me what your definition of Genocide is.

Ronald.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 00:32

LC

Rather a pessimistic view.

The majority of members on this forum, in my view, remain somewhat more positive.



There are and have been clear changes over the past decade that are moving towards a solution. International political players are involved and will benefit from a solution. Financial iand economic incentives for a solution are likely to emerge sooner rather than later. The zenophobic attitudes of particularly greek cypriots will be overcome as time passes and the benefits of a solution become apparent.

The Influence of Turkey that you portray may well diminish significantly when the North becomes part of EU. The TRNC could easily become self supporting once it is allowed to align itself and benefit from Union membership.

Whether Turkey will relinquish its interest is another matter.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 00:46

waz

you make some good points and i for one see where you are coming from and read your posts carefully,the one point you are missing however,is ,its the g/cs who don,t want a solution the turks have already said yes once ,believe me it will be a no from the greeks again ,why ,prehaps someone else can answer that ,or maybe you can.



regards



musin

LondonCypriot


Joined: 15/12/2008
Posts: 426

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 00:47

Greeks Cypriots will never surrender the North. They will never allow the Republic of Cyprus dissovle. As far as they are concerned Turkish Cypriots are an minority of the island and do not have the right to rule their own state. Under the 1960 Cyprus Consitition it stated that Cyprus will always remain an single island.



Any solution must also satisfy the Turkish generals. Don't forget is the Turkish Armed Forces who have an big say here as well.



Stop dreaming will you. The Turkish flag will never be lowered in Cyprus.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 00:59

Ronaldo,

If a certain person that has the fountain of knowledge indicates you are a fool. then accept it. !!



Gibson msg 134 is spot on. As the great "Ian Paisley" once said!!...."!NEVER" he also had a little sailors suit.



I suppose I will be getting a little reply from the popular one. He even tried to tell an "irish joke" earlier......alas like 99% of all others it was as old as the hills.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 01:01

Ronaldo,

If a certain person that has the fountain of knowledge indicates you are a fool. then accept it. !!



Gibson msg 134 is spot on.



I suppose I will be getting a little reply from the popular one. He even tried to tell an "irish joke" earlier......alas like 99% of all others it was as old as the hills.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 01:03

MM

It certainly is the case that the G/C fail to join the T/C in acceptance of any deal to date particularly the 2004 Annan plan.



The fact is that both sides are currently unequal. T/C have most to gain whilst G/C have more to loose. The non acceptance of the plan is as one would expect given the inbalance of advantage.



It is for the EU to balance the equation with incentives for the G/C to settle.

Any incentives must clearly be of some advantage to the T/C also and will most likely be based upon financial and economic incentives. Any such negotiation would, I expect, if Mr Talat is wise, revolve around TRNC granted entry to the EU fold.



Economic incentives to ROC may be, for example an assisted export scheme for ROC products. EU assistance for promotion of Cyprus as a holiday detination and many more.

All these measures would of course eventually allow TRNC to benefit on the back of economic success of the Island

gibson335


Joined: 01/11/2008
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 09:02

Coachie



Sorry I misread your first post.



Musim M



The Little Boy in the Sailor Suit speaks two languages.English and Rubbish!!!



Tiggy



The best joke is the little boy himself

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 10:13

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=69&sdetail=6904&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate= Do they have the powers to do this,

Paul.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 20:27

Please keep this sticky,

Paul.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
17/12/2008 14:50

stewart

on your profile you say you are from esentepe?

why do you think i am a tc?

i'm not, i am an eu citizen. (english)

what i am saying is that we don't have our eu rights , when as we have , you choose to live in the trnc.



admin who is removing my posts???

what have i done wrong??

please explain.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
17/12/2008 18:18

Musin,



I speak four languages - and probably better Turkish than you!

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
17/12/2008 18:45

Gibson,



Gibberish and fork tongue are the other two he is fluent at.



So in total that makes 4, which is confirmed above.



Oh, to be liked so much.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
17/12/2008 19:59

pike



turkish is my mother tongue,where yours is rubbish ,which you continously

enunciate.



nane suratli.



musin

long live the kktc

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
17/12/2008 20:51

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=69&sdetail=6938&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=



Sometimes isnt it best to say nothing,

Paul.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
17/12/2008 21:03

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=69&sdetail=6921&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=



http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=123&sdetail=6930&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=



next meeting on the 22nd,

Paul.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
17/12/2008 21:03

If Nami did say that then he's an idiot who shouldn't be involved in the peace process. Coming out with such an inept thing at a time of confidence-building does not reflect well on the calibre of TC negotiator.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
17/12/2008 21:08

Hi Paul,

Afraid I think , if someone feels strongly about someone and wishes to voice an opinion I support freedom of speech after all If someone was a bxxxxxd in life dying dos 'nt change them and I for one would always refer to them as a bxxxxxd!

take care

paul

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
17/12/2008 21:13

Paul,

I know what you mean but it just seems to heighten the tension.Both leaders are already walking on eggshells.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
17/12/2008 21:19

Paul I agree, time and place.

As I wouldn't have ever told my mother how I felt about her father.

ronaldo


Joined: 14/11/2007
Posts: 372

Message Posted:
17/12/2008 23:20

Suzanne , "some people just don`t know the meaning of respect! "What has Denktash got to do with Namis opinion ? In life you have to earn Respect ! Paps as far as im aware Didnt. Ron(aldo)

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
17/12/2008 23:28

ronaldo,



What's being argued here is that however bad you feel about someone you don't reveal it on the record during a peace process - especially when acting as an advisor. That's what makes Nami rate as an amateur and effectively a nobody who's well out of his depth, like many a useless Cypriot politician on both sides. So many of these characters are complete clowns who only gained their positions by default or nepotism. It must take a fair amount of diplomacy from EU and UN negotiators to deal with them. I suppose it's like a school visit when they come to Cyprus to meet the local politicians.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
17/12/2008 23:35

Talat and Christ were also best mates once upon a time.But it doesnt stop them having a good old ding dong.Everyone has differnces of opinion.Just seems that this one will carry on running longer then we will know.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
17/12/2008 23:58

PP

I fear that you may well be correct. Thankfully the UN and EU are there to assist and hopefully keep things realistic and on track.

12 meetings so far..how many to go? I say July 2009 say two meetings per month.

ronaldo


Joined: 14/11/2007
Posts: 372

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 01:18

Pike, for once i agree ! what Nami said was amatuerish but the point i made. to your friend and comrade suzanne Was !That It was not said by denktash !and it was nothing to do with him. It was a more diplomatic answer that came from Denktash.







What's being argued here is that however bad you feel about someone you don't reveal it on the record during a peace process . Pike for once i agree .At the weekend, the former Turkish Cypriot leader Rauf Denktash said, "according to customs and our traditions, one should not speak negatively about the dead. But I would like to put that Turkish Cypriots will not remember Papadopoulos with good feelings."Ronaldo

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 10:10

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=69&sdetail=6947&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate= just to keep at the top.What do you have to do to get a sticky on here,



Paul.

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 10:39

Dodger,

email izzet

Keith.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 11:41

Cheers Keith.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 11:44

ronaldo

in reply to one of your previous posts.

i do take my tc friends shopping in the south.

when someone comes in my car and i am driving am i not taking them?

i don't look at my tc's friends any differently than my english, iranian,gc,tunisian, german ect ect friends.

i live in a tc village, most of my friends and all of my neighbours are tc.

sometimes on the odd occasion my tc neighbour has take me shopping in the south.

i don't see where you are coming from?

bachelibelly


Joined: 04/09/2008
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 12:23

Having just read the last 80 odd posts of this debate i have come to the following conclusion;

Given the tit for tat ,bickering between certain members on both sides of the fence,resembling a school playground fight ,who will be the first to take their ball in.Whilst i appreciate that a certain seafaring member of this forum can infuriate at times ,is it not best to realise that he ,nor you are ever going to change their opinion,and as such refuse to rise to the bait and render certain comments meaningless by the lack of response.



Using this post and its comments by certain parties as a basis for" happy ever after" i feel there is more chance of myself taking the vows of celibacy than a settlement in Cyprus,IMHO !.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 16:23

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=69&sdetail=6951&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=



Heres some good news for once,

Paul

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 22:17

Can someone explain why this thread is considered a "Sticky".



In my view it is just another one of those endless discussions about a problem that none of us has any influence on.



There are no important pieces of information that would influence people about the "Cyprus Problem". I have seen and heard many more threads that are far superior to this one with lots more info.



Who cares that easyJet are flying to Larnaca, it would be news worthy if the were flying to Ercan.



So, IMO the moderator who posted this as a sticky must review and really think in future what it is worthy of "Sticky" status.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 23:07

Bahceli



We've been over this ground before... Pike likes to make his inflammatory remarks as he is who he is I guess it's no surprise...



If his views as expressed go unanswered, do you not think casual observers or new members might think that his opinions are widely shared and accepted by the membership of Cyprus44?



I would hate to think that anyone thought I shared his lop-sided view of Cyprus history. How about you?



So he is either answered or left to spread his propaganda unchallenged and unabashed... Do you think that is wise?



I see that the vultures (a sudden influx of Greek protagonists) are circling this board now smelling blood but they are wasting their time...

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 23:33

Hi Groucho,

very well said.

Can you imagine the carnage inflicted on the Island for yet another time if the said "vultures" are permitted to proceed with their ethnic cleansing asspirations.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 23:50

http://books.google.com/books?id=7e7nKDq-y9oC&pg=PA262&lpg=PA262&dq=Glafcos+Clerides+My+Deposition&source=bl&ots=ViU9xVLH-p&sig=6uXjymVMIylr9rVq9wRdIgLuqGs&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPP1,M1



Sorry about the length... It's worth a gander, which is handy at Yule Tide...

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 23:57

Groucho: "Pike likes to make his inflammatory remarks as he is who he is..."



And what I am needs no excuses etc



http://www.mp3lyrics.org/s/shirley-bassey/i-am-what-i-am/



Incidentally, does "inflammatory remarks" really mean views certain other people disagree with?

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 23:58

David,

Sorry matey blame me for that i emailed Izzet, as you where complaining the other day that no posts where actually about the Cyprus problem.Its not my fault that people want to rant on and on about other stuff.The title of the post clearly states "the Cyprus problem".What people want to talk about is way beyond my control.



"who cares that easy jet are flying to Larnaca"Actually mate i do.I have done both and if i can get a flight for £30.00 then i will snatch it with both hands.Larnaca to my property can be done in an hour so whats wrong with that.And it also means that i dont have to sit on a plane moitonless for 45 minutes.I ehave posted loads of clips on her that are all related to the problem.So i dont really know where you are coming from when you say that there are no important pieces of information.



I find your comments quite insulting actually as i thought making it a sticky would influence people to post constructive comments about the problem hey ho

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 00:12

newlad: "And it also means that i dont have to sit on a plane moitonless for 45 minutes."



Ten pints of Guinness and a jar of pickled eggs in the departure lounge should help you out with that, Paul.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 00:25

Pikey,

Cant stand pickled eggs matey.And i was being serious for once.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 00:28

Pike,



No it means hijacking any thread not about the Cyprus Problem and making it so.... just to inflame people.... if you don't do this out of badness why do you do it?



Please don't tell us it's to keep us honest and make sure we know what bad people we are... we already know what you think.



PS I know why you do it...

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 00:55

Groucho,



Practically every other post I make has a joke or innuendo in it. Don't take me so seriously. OK, I'm highly principled and mouthy about it but I am an ordinary human being. How would you cope with comments like these:



They are mostly associated in one way or another with the British underworld , most are utterly uncouth , ignorant and lacking of any refinement . You will be surprised how ignorant and rather stupid most of them are , they are not the least interested in morality , justice or fairness just as long as they have a good time sniffing each others a******.



You don't need to meet them just look at the lowlife and pseudotoffs that infest Frank and Joan's website in north Cyprus. I hope they all have to live the rest of their miserable lives in DSS B&Bs when they are thrown out. Phucking carpetbagging thieving freeloading selfish b*****!



PS My venom does not extend to anyone who has bought legally anywhere in Cyprus.



http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewto

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 01:02

Pikey,

So are you saying if my purchase is classed as illegal you would be glad if i lost everything,

Paul.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 02:43

msge 69 top post

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 11:51

rowlo,

Thank you.



Unfortunately developments of only yeaterday with possible ruling in EU Courts against the Orams present a new more gloomy picture for the whole island.

I invite you to read the thread about "overnight decline in property prices"



warren

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 12:50

newlad,



No, I wouldn't be glad if you lost everything. I've never had any quarrel with you (unless you have an alias).

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 15:42

Eric, if those statements in message 189 are not yours, could you please use quotation marks. I know you're still smarting about your speeding ticket but you don't want to appear to have completely lost the plot, do you?



(no jokes about plots and the imminent loss thereof, please)

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 16:39

frontal,



The colon should be sufficient if you're lifting passages from elsewhere.

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 17:27

And no jokes about colons either!

It'll set him off again...

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 17:49

Ah go on Keith... a bit of colonic irrigation would do him good... he wouldn't be so full of shit then.... ;¬)

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 17:57

Grouch,



I'll let that one go seeing as I have new status here now.

bachelibelly


Joined: 04/09/2008
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 20:10

Point taken Groucho,but a good friend and neighbour just emailed a very valid point,i quote



"Why are we wasting valuable time discussing the situation ,our input will not change the result and we shall either reap the benefits of a settlement , suffer the consequences or stay as we are ,either way it is out of our control".



More Lager please !!!!!!!!!

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 20:21

Observation, pleased to see some posts with real substance again, better than most of the irrelant banter seen recently. ouch!

regards

p

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 20:46

Paul,

Thats why i wanted it to be at the top of the pile,

Paul.







http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=69&sdetail=6972&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 20:58