North Cyprus Tourist Board - An old couple who lost everything
North Cyprus
North Cyprus > North Cyprus Forum > An old couple who lost everything

An old couple who lost everything

North Cyprus Forums Homepage

Join Cyprus44 Board | Already a member? Login

Popular Posts - List of popular topics discussed on our board.

You must be a member and logged in, to post replies and new topics.



Jwheeler&Sons


Joined: 10/06/2008
Posts: 127

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 00:47

Join or Login to Reply
Message 1 of 72 in Discussion

An old couple who sent their cash to Mark Unwin are now living in poverty, the 79 year old woman, had invested the cash in the Mark Unwin Alpan Uz Scam has got Liver cancer and is afraid she has lost everything after lodging her will with Gunesh Mentesh Aziz.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 01:03

Join or Login to Reply
Message 2 of 72 in Discussion

Everyone that bought on this development has lost everything, have they not?



stubbs1


Joined: 07/08/2011
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 01:53

Join or Login to Reply
Message 3 of 72 in Discussion

Won't be long now before our intrepid mods come along to protect a fee paying sponsor of C44 the Underhanded wins.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 07:24

Join or Login to Reply
Message 4 of 72 in Discussion

Afraid so stubbs1 or the above get accused of being professional victims.



Even some of the Advocates who are thought to be amngst he good guys can make mistakes, that I can accept no one is perfect, but the first rule here is, if you make a Will, do not allow tht Advocate to be an Executor, it is not necessary no matter what they tell you. My Executors are two friends, one the mother of the beneficiary's who has a vested interest in not letting the 'legal' profession take what is not theirs and the the other also a friend but young enough to hopefully outlive me.



metininkibris


Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 86

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 07:34

Join or Login to Reply
Message 5 of 72 in Discussion

Can they not cancel the will ?



juliamoons



Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 849

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 07:46

Join or Login to Reply
Message 6 of 72 in Discussion

I would also be interested to know if a will can be cancelled, as our advocates are the executors of our wills.



crofter


Joined: 16/12/2008
Posts: 1035

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 07:50

Join or Login to Reply
Message 7 of 72 in Discussion

Make a new will [with a new advocate if you wish] and this cancels out the previous will.



DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 08:00

Join or Login to Reply
Message 8 of 72 in Discussion

And don't pay for a will- do it yourself, download a free blank will here:

[ http://www.allcrusades.com/CD/index.html ].



Bowman


Joined: 02/05/2007
Posts: 256

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 08:01

Join or Login to Reply
Message 9 of 72 in Discussion

You can make a new will and testament every day if you wish, and the new one will automatically supercede the old one!



DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 08:29

Join or Login to Reply
Message 10 of 72 in Discussion

@ msg 9: BUT don't forget to have your will registered! It's all in the manual I included in the file mentioned in msg 8.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 09:00

Join or Login to Reply
Message 11 of 72 in Discussion

Yes everything on here is correct. Just download a new Will form. Redo it yourself, do not put Advocates as executors, BUT TRY TO CHOOSE SOMEONE who could outlive you, you should have a receipt with a number on, take it along to the same place you went when you lodged your old will (probably accompanied by a member of staff from your Advocate). Take two witnesses with their Passports or Kimlik cards, job done.



Marion Stokes HBPG also gives you a step by step guide and the facility to download a blank will.



Why you shouldn't use an Advocate as Executor. Because they have carte blanche to charge whatever they like for their services in administering your wishes and YOU ARE NOT THERE TO ARGUE.



This is for Juliamoons



CarrieRBag



Joined: 23/12/2008
Posts: 1374

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 09:00

Join or Login to Reply
Message 12 of 72 in Discussion

We have done our own wills DC but I remember mid-2011 someone died and having spoken with the surviving partner they said the "do it yourself" will they had made held no credence here.... just another way of getting money to lodge it! This person was having terrible trouble trying to sort it out.



DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 09:46

Join or Login to Reply
Message 13 of 72 in Discussion

@ msg 12, CarrieRBag: I'm not a lawyer so I'm not qualified to argue with you. I speak for myself. We had a TRNC lawyer done our wills when we first arrived here (some eight years ago: 100 Sterling per person for a standard A4 print from his computer).

Later we used the free DIY will (almost the same as the first one, but with some additions, which I had checked by a befriended lawyer) and had this new DIY will officially registered in Girne. I'm satisfied, but nobody has to follow my advice of course!

P.S. I seem to remember that TRNC citizen and C44 member Imet (Elko2, who is often familiar with the law here) even wrote that registering a will was not necessary.



DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 10:01

Join or Login to Reply
Message 14 of 72 in Discussion

I found several requests or the free, blank will in my Inbox already - I'll collect all requests today and send the information this evening. OK?



stubbs1


Joined: 07/08/2011
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 12:51

Join or Login to Reply
Message 15 of 72 in Discussion

DC whats the password for the will?



Many thanks.



Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 13:04

Join or Login to Reply
Message 16 of 72 in Discussion

Hans, would very much appreciate the password too, please.



With thanks.



Jean



DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 13:52

Join or Login to Reply
Message 17 of 72 in Discussion

If you are interested to download the free, blank will - find it here:

[ http://www.allcrusades.com/CD/index.html ].



Email me at hd@allcrusades.com with "will" in the subject window and you'll have the password this evening in your Inbox.



Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 14:09

Join or Login to Reply
Message 18 of 72 in Discussion

invested the cash in the Mark Unwin Alpan Uz Scam

What scam is this?



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 15:18

Join or Login to Reply
Message 19 of 72 in Discussion

Hi Troodus,



There is lots of information about this builder written by both TC and British victims but this is perhaps a good start;



http://www.johnpattison.co.uk/



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 15:26

Join or Login to Reply
Message 20 of 72 in Discussion

Sorry, meant Troodo.



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 15:39

Join or Login to Reply
Message 21 of 72 in Discussion

This thread started off for one thing and then it strayed into another i.e. wills. This could be regarded as hijacking the original thread and thus it should be avoided, however I regard wills as very important and thus I decided to contribute on this subject.



1. A new will does not automatically rescind an older one. Unless you specifically rescind all the previous wills you may cause some legal problems to the beneficiaries. Hence make sure that all the previous ones are rescinded.



2. Wills do not have to be deposited with the court but it is well worth the effort to do so.



3. The fees charged by an advocate as an executor can be challenged but it can be a messy business. Thus unless you are sure of the integrity of the advocate you better appoint someone else in your will. If the appointed advocate is going to charge too much, he can be changed with the permission of the court but again it is a messy business.



4. Any will can be withdrawn from the court and it is not necessary to replace it with a new one.



5. Any do it yourself will is valid as long as the legal rules are strictly adhered to e.g. the wittnesses must be competent do be so otherwise the whole will becomes null and void.

ismet



Warbabies


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 165

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 16:23

Join or Login to Reply
Message 22 of 72 in Discussion

After my husband's death last July I needed to change my Will, so went to the Law Courts and requested it. I had to accept a photocopy, since apparently the original is retained in the Law Courts. Is this usual?

Also, my husband was one of the people with a Downloaded Will, and since I have little Turkish it would have been virtually impossible for me, as Executor, to get it through the various processes involved, so I had to use an Advocate for the usual charge of £1000+. Beware!!!



joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 18:28

Join or Login to Reply
Message 23 of 72 in Discussion

Ismet re your msg 21 point 5 - how would the competence (or otherwise) of the witnesses be verified? I ask as I have recently witnessed a friend's will.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 18:58

Join or Login to Reply
Message 24 of 72 in Discussion

joandjelly, good point, but surely Ismet it would be hard to prove someone was not competent at the time they witnessed a Will. especially if the death of the Wll maker does not take place for many years after the Will was made.



EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 19:33

Join or Login to Reply
Message 25 of 72 in Discussion

Is it not time to return to the subject matter ?



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 19:44

Join or Login to Reply
Message 26 of 72 in Discussion

msg. 22: What happened is most unusual. Every person as the right to withdraw his/her deposited will.



msg. 23: the law specifically states who are competent witnesses. e.g. they have to be over 18, not a benefactor, a spouse or close relative as specified.



msg. 24: I was not referring to mental condition but of course presumably they must not have an obvious drawback.

ismet



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 20:38

Join or Login to Reply
Message 27 of 72 in Discussion

EamonnMc I agree!



Julie (mess 1) Mark & Hayran Unwin won't lose any sleep over their dealings with the criminal elements in the TRNC, the 79 year old lady with Liver Cancer will be even less of a concern to them! they took innocent victims money took their cut and moved on to the next victim! lining their own pockets in this process is more of a concern to them than the criminals they have certainly dealt with in the past!



And before the "I love Unwins" brigade answer by being cruel to you and saying Unwins are just a shop window, anyone who continually does business with criminals deserve everything they get, and yes I'm pleased these characters found the "Unwins" an exemplary Estate Agent, however there are many who agree wholeheartedly with you, and found greed was this company's main enjoyment, the after affects of their greed should of course, not be discussed in a public place!



They should be left to continue their search for future victims in peace!



EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 21:54

Join or Login to Reply
Message 28 of 72 in Discussion

Another very sad story . Is there no end to it ?......seems like a few people should be ashamed of themselves !



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 22:17

Join or Login to Reply
Message 29 of 72 in Discussion

I am a bit confused. I am aware of what has happened to the buyers on this site but how does the will element fit into the scam?



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 23:00

Join or Login to Reply
Message 30 of 72 in Discussion

It's not the "Will" Bradus it's the Lawyer, yet again Gunesh Mentesh! like "Unwins" and "Aga" and many more names I could mention! tainted by the same old brush!



EamonnMc (mess 28) There is no end to it! I wish it was just a "few" people, the list is endless :-( all connected, all still walking the streets! Real thugs connected to thugs of a different sort, connected to each other and the TRNC system!



TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 23:47

Join or Login to Reply
Message 31 of 72 in Discussion

Alpan Uz scammed not only the Unwins but other estate agents too. It just turned out that Unwins sold the majority of the properties.



Unwins are not the crooks in this case, it is Alpan Uz. The contracts that the people signed was with Alpan Uz and themselves. Unwins were only ever connected by marketing the properties. They never had anything to do with the building of the properties.



Thus the 79 year old NEVER invested with Unwins but ONLY WITH Alpan Uz.



For gods sake Julie leave Unwins alone unless you can comew up with some concrete; and that means that it will stand up in a court of law, before you throw ludicrous accusations around. Or you may find yourself in a court of law for deformation of character.



philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3533

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 23:53

Join or Login to Reply
Message 32 of 72 in Discussion

Msg 32 so did they stop selling the properties ?



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 00:08

Join or Login to Reply
Message 33 of 72 in Discussion

TimothyCadman (mess 31)



Why should Julie leave Unwins alone? Alpan Uz! Gary Robb and many more criminals! Mark & Hayran like to run with criminals



"Unwins are not the crooks in THIS case" TimothyCadman according to you, they are not the CROOKS in any case! I'll bet Mr & Mrs Unwin took their slice of their Marketing from their VICTIMS in the Alpan Uz saga But never had anything to do with the building of the properties............ thus the 79 year old is still owed her Marketing Money



For gods sake Timothy leave Julie and other Victims alone, unless you can come up with some concrete evidence that will stand up in a court of law that Mark & Hayran don't owe every Gary Robb victim, and every Alpan Uz victim their MARKETING money back



If you carry on defending Mark & Hayran Unwin maybe you will find YOURSELF in a court of Law along with the rest of the criminal fraternity in the TRNC for FRAUD!



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 00:19

Join or Login to Reply
Message 34 of 72 in Discussion

I should have said "Aiding & abetting a FRAUDULENT ACT"



Jwheeler&Sons


Joined: 10/06/2008
Posts: 127

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 00:24

Join or Login to Reply
Message 35 of 72 in Discussion

Timothy Cadman go ahead and take me to court.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 00:31

Join or Login to Reply
Message 36 of 72 in Discussion

It was not about them selling more properties, more to do with lying about the stage of development and asking for more payments despite work not actually having been carried out. It appears that they even sent photos of houses showing an exaggerated state of completion by not actually using the buyers houses.



This builder has also be associated with other TRNC property scams prior to this development.



Why would an Estate agent ask buyers to send the stage payments to themselves rather than the clients advocate? Unwins are famous for pulling out readily prepared contracts from under the desk, coincidentally on many of the "problem" sites. Their actions leave them wide-open to accusations and if they wish to gain a more reliable and professional reputation they should certainly take more care in who they do business with and leave the conveyancing to the advocates. Trustworthy? Who knows? But is it worth the gamble?



Jwheeler&Sons


Joined: 10/06/2008
Posts: 127

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 00:37

Join or Login to Reply
Message 37 of 72 in Discussion

I am willing to be sued. By Tomothy Cadman & whoever.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 00:47

Join or Login to Reply
Message 38 of 72 in Discussion

Can I ask if Timothy Cadman was an Estate Agent ?



TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 00:59

Join or Login to Reply
Message 39 of 72 in Discussion

Bradus,

No I wasn't but I did work for one and it wasn't Unwins



Jwheeler&Sons


Joined: 10/06/2008
Posts: 127

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 01:06

Join or Login to Reply
Message 40 of 72 in Discussion

The Liver Cancer Victim who sent her money to Unwin, had her life savings plundered before she died.



TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 01:06

Join or Login to Reply
Message 41 of 72 in Discussion

TRNCvictim,

It was Gary Robb, Alpan Uz who paid Unwins and the other estate agents. NOT one vicitm ever paid Unwins, or any other Estate Agent directly for the service that they gave to the customers of companies who went on to act fraudulently.



Aiding and abetting is a difficult crime to prove and requires a lot of evidence; that in this and every other case doesn't exist.



TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 01:11

Join or Login to Reply
Message 42 of 72 in Discussion

Bradus,



The only reason you send payments to the estate agent is so that they can ensure that their fee for marketing the properties is paid, otherwise no builder would ever pay the estate agent just as they never intend to build the houses. And every estate agent would go bankrupt or be forced to take lengthy court proceedings to try and get money and, more than probably, never get a penny.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 01:12

Join or Login to Reply
Message 43 of 72 in Discussion

Tim,



are we playing with words? Lets rephrase this. Did the Unwins receive the buyers stage payments?



TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 01:18

Join or Login to Reply
Message 44 of 72 in Discussion

Julie,

Why would I sue you? You have no contract with me and you actually had no intention of buying when I wasted 3 days with you showing you properties. You just wanted me to try and lean on Unwins to try and get your £10k back on the deal that YOU backed out of, notwithstanding that on the contract YOU signed it clearly stated that if you pulled out of the deal YOU wouldn't get a penny back.

So maybe I should sue you for wasting my days, petrol and wear and tear to a vehicle.



Unwins didn't plunder, as you put it, the victims money; THE BUILDER DID.



TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 01:21

Join or Login to Reply
Message 45 of 72 in Discussion

Bradus,



Yes they did. But did Unwins hold onto the money? No. It would have been forwarded within 28 days.

It is well known that estate agents hold onto the money for 28 days so that it may accur interest which helps in the day to day running of a business.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 01:26

Join or Login to Reply
Message 46 of 72 in Discussion

But people pay so much more than the Estate Agents fee Tim and if as you say, they themselves have no faith in being paid. why oh why do they transfer such large sums of money to these builders you say they don't even trust? Why take the money from the innocent buyer when the debt is owed by the developer? This in itself stinks.



Why do they also promise to send on photos and do assessments of property progress, then knowingly still transfer the money knowing that all building has come to a stand still?



This set up is hard to justify and if such a system is used then all I can say is the odds are stacked against buyers before they have even made their first payment.



EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 01:53

Join or Login to Reply
Message 47 of 72 in Discussion

It sounds like everyone is passing the buck...it's musical chairs with the buyer left standing ! The old caveat is true.........BUYERS BEWARE !!!!!



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 08:37

Join or Login to Reply
Message 48 of 72 in Discussion

Once you had bought through an Estate Agent, why would anyone send them any money, do you do that in the UK? Aren't we always being told the law here is UK based, I know of people who allowed the Estate to produce the Contract of Sale, WHY?



Estate Agents sell houses, Advocates (solictiors) do the conveyancing. Hang on to money for 28 days for the interest to help with the running of the business, well apart from the fact that the money should be with the Advocate, why would the inerest on the money be necessary, isn't 5% to 6% commission enough?



As for the rubbish about wasting his time and wear and tear on the vehicle, A competent Estate Agent knows what his 'batting average is' and should know, 'you win some, you lose some'. Not every person you take out to view properties will buy, maybe you did not have what they were looking for.



There is an interesting caes in the court system at the moment where a builder is suing an Agent for all the commission paid on a site.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 09:50

Join or Login to Reply
Message 49 of 72 in Discussion

Oh dear perhaps no-One knew Mr Robb was on the run, now I will take my tongue out of my cheek.



Clearly Timothy is an Estate Agent, I know nothing about him, he may be a very good one. Perhaps he would like to tell us who he works/worked for?



I would be chasing my Estate Agent Carkl Clarke-Derby(Lewis Estates) for the return of the commission he earned on the sale to me of my K5 villa, if I though he had the proverbial to urinate in.



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 10:46

Join or Login to Reply
Message 50 of 72 in Discussion

Mr Cadman,



According the the Head of the TRNC Estate Agents Union all Aga Victims who didn't get their properties are entitled to their money returned! seeing as how your "In the Know" regarding Estate Agency Practice in the TRNC perhaps you could lean on your friends Mark & Hayran and tell us when they are going to return all commissions paid to them by their victims will be?



The Unwins have taken money for nothing, and got their kicks for free! as the song goes! perhaps it's now time for them to be seen to be the honest and return the stolen goods they received from Gary Robb and give it back to the victims of the crime!



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 10:54

Join or Login to Reply
Message 51 of 72 in Discussion

I second that one TRNC victim and I know the particular law that relates to this is retrospective so not only the Aga victims, but all the victims of mis-selling, those who can never get their Kocan because their property is too close to the Military, indeed anyone who is unable to get their Kocan, now Boyut buyers look like good candidates too.



There is of course one big obstacle, some Estate Agents, mine included, have gone out of business. How sad.



Perhaps one Advocate who has the 'balls' to take on their bread and butter (the Estate Agents) might like to mount a 'mass case' on a no win, no fee basis. Whoops there goes another flying pig.



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 11:14

Join or Login to Reply
Message 52 of 72 in Discussion

According to Mr Cadman and others Unwins are sooooooo honest and are just doing their job, they have not gone out of business yet, so let's see them doing the right thing according to the Law of the Land! and return the stolen goods retrospectively to their victims!



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 13:09

Join or Login to Reply
Message 53 of 72 in Discussion

TRNC victim, two flying pigs in one day, must be a record.



Ossie


Joined: 19/01/2008
Posts: 311

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 13:34

Join or Login to Reply
Message 54 of 72 in Discussion

What amazes me is that our forum continues to allow Unwins to advertise and why do we never get any response from Unwins. I would have thought that with all the adverse comments made about them they would at least plead not guilty and if they are honest, guilty!!!!



TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 14:02

Join or Login to Reply
Message 55 of 72 in Discussion

TRNCvictim,

I've never said that Unwins were SOOOOOOOOO HONEST. In fact I believe that it is the law of the land that is inadequate. Where no laws exists it's left to morales. But in business there are no morales. If you have morales in business you go bust very quickly.

The Unwins have never been, nor will ever be, my friends.

But they do stick to the law in the case where it exists; as does every other Estate Agent. Even to the point of getting legal work permits.

Unwins, or any other Estate Agent in the TRNC, has ever stolen money from any customer. The Estate Agent has NO direct contract with any customer to pay them the fee/commission that is payable once a contract is signed. The fee/commission is paid by the builder/developer and that is who the Estate Agent has a contract with. The only caveat that Estate Agents insist on is that the inital payment goes to them so they can ensure they get their fee before passing on the rest of the monies to the builder.



TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 14:15

Join or Login to Reply
Message 56 of 72 in Discussion

Bradus,

I'll promise you the earth if it means getting a sale. Once you've signed the contract you can go and 'whistle in the wind'. I've done my bit. Introduced you to a builder. You like his property. You like his price. You signed the contract to buy from him; not me. Any problems you now have see the builder for my job is done.

As you say the odds are stacked against the buyer. But by the same argument if a buyer relise on an Estate Agent; or come to that any sales person, to be the know all and absolute trustworthy person then they shouldn't buy anything. Would you buy a car from Arthur Daley? But people do and that is their downfall.

I used to work for PC World. A customer came in with £800 cash to buy a computer. I could have taken all his money with just a computer. But he left with a cheaper model but had lots of accessories to go with it. The actaul profit I made for the company was greater than had I sold him just what he wanted. Everyday this scenario takes place.......



TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 14:28

Join or Login to Reply
Message 57 of 72 in Discussion

but it shouldn't.

In school today they should teach how to become a savvy shopper. How to research for yourself. A salesmen should just be a conduit for you to get what you want and not what he wants to sell to you.

When I go shopping it a case of "I'll have that". I've never been sold anything from a salesperson that they would have prefered me to have.

When I bought our villa in the TRNC, we checked out builders on the internet. Had compnay searches done to find out who was actually behind the company and their reputation. In the end we signed with Levent Homes; who of cause run the Lemar Supermarkets and at the time had car dealer ships and dairies too. They were a company who were not going anywhere. Our other option was Imperial Construction. They were a little simpler in that they had built many homes and I could always knock on the door and talk to buyers before hand, but they were building on the wrong side of town for us.



TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 14:37

Join or Login to Reply
Message 58 of 72 in Discussion

pollymarples,

Don't you think that the Estate Agent too was mis-sold the dream by the builder? The builder would come in and make a presentation and back it up with paperwork. He sold the dream to the Estate Agent who then went on to sell the dream, as it had been laid out to him, to prospective customers.

The only reason people have a real pop at Unwins is that they had SOLE AGENCY status with Aga and Alpen Uz. So when things go wrong it's apparently down to one Estate Agent.

You rarely hear complaints about the Tutuska Construction problems as that one was spread amongst many Estate Agents. Most Estate Agents took some sort of backlash from them.



TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 14:46

Join or Login to Reply
Message 59 of 72 in Discussion

Ultimately as has been said many times before.......



DON'T BUY OFF PLAN UNLESS YOU'RE 101% SURE THAT THE COMPANY WILL FOLLOW THROUGH ON ITS PROMISES AND THAT THEY HAVE A REPUTATION THAT IS CHECKABLE BY YOU AND NEVER BELEIVE WHAT A SALESPERSON TELLS YOU.



We have one of the greatest tools invented at our finger tips; The Internet. USE IT!



Where would we be without places like Cyprus44 and Tripadvisor?



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 16:21

Join or Login to Reply
Message 60 of 72 in Discussion

Obviously you dont read NCFP Timothy or you would know I have taken many swipes at Tutuska.



Are you really expecting us all to believe Unwins and all the other Estate Agents hadn't got wind of Robb's status and are you als saying that Estate Agents were unaware that selling British people properties too close to military bases meant they would never get their PTP. Maybe the Builder did a good 'pitch' to the Estate Agent but are you saying that at between 5 and 6% commision on each property the Estate did not have a responisibillty to check the provenance of the property they were selling, whether 'Off Plan' or a resale. Sorry but it is too easy to pput the blame elsewhere. It is common knowledge that even the Advocate was paying Estate Agents an average of £200 per client iintroduced to the Advocate. Are you really expecting us all to believe that there is no obligation on the Estate Agent. Talk about money for old rope.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 18:58

Join or Login to Reply
Message 61 of 72 in Discussion

Tim,

we are singing from the same hymn sheet as I too am a firm believer that the Estate Agent is merely a window and his only commitment is to the person paying his commission, the builder. In such cases the Estate Agent has no responsibility legally or morally if problems occur post sale.



Where we differ is when Estate Agents extend the above role and request the stage payments to be sent to them and also take responsibility for sending photographic evidence or detailed reports of progress. Such action makes them more than a simple Estate Agent with a commitment to the builder. It makes them an accomplice when things go wrong. They have to take the responsibility if they demand and collect money at an earlier stage than stated in the contract, as in the above case. They are guilty if they send misleading photos or write inaccurate reports. Surely this can only be described as obtaining money fraudulently?



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 19:12

Join or Login to Reply
Message 62 of 72 in Discussion

The rate of commission paid to Estate Agents here should at least ensure they know the provenance of what they are selling and the Estate Agents law clearly puts the onus on them to do so and to return commission if the purchaser is unable to obtain title.





In the UK although you engage an Estate Agent, their fees (commission) goes through the Solicitor and since they claim to emulate the UK laws, I cannot see why that should not be so here. In short, everyone gets paid at the tail end of the deal, not up front, that should include the Advocate too.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 19:24

Join or Login to Reply
Message 63 of 72 in Discussion

I also agree that those allowing their Estate Agent to act in this manner are gullible and have left themselves vulnerable to exploitation. However this does not deter from the fact that if the Estate Agent has acted outside their role and has obviously acted in cahoots with the developer and advocate, then they will be viewed as unprofessional and even if not illegal, unethical and amoral and willing participants in a scam.

Herein lies the problem with this particular Estate Agent.



It should be a warning to all those buying. Your Estate Agent is employed by the developer not you! Your Advocate should not be one recommended by your Estate Agent or Developer. Get photographic evidence and reports from independent sources. Why send stage payments to the Estate Agent? It simply further complicates the situation. Reading your posts Tim, one can not help but think that buyers are swimming with sharks and are merely cash cows. Whatever happened to reputation and professionalism?



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 22:22

Join or Login to Reply
Message 64 of 72 in Discussion

Bradus in 2003 most 50 plus gullible victims didn't have "THE INTERNET" had no inkling who Gary Robb was, and thought Unwins and TRNC fraudsters were genuine! The Estate Agent did produce the Contract from under his desk! did promise pictures, and definately were in cahoots with the Lawyers I have letters from Talat Kursat asking for stage payments long before due, with a promise that IF not paid on time our CONTRACT would be cancelled and DOUBLE SOLD because we had dared to contradict them



The Estate Agent in question namely Unwins Sole Agents for Aga (Gary Robb) were definately unethical, and amoral and KNEW about the SCAM 100% had already taken their cut, and laid low knowing the outcome! They promised me In my Contract signed by Mark Unwin my money back for my holiday If I signed my contract on the dotted line, so they owe me their commission plus my Holiday money of £900.00.



Gary Robb owes me thousands more, he is no longer trading! but Mr Mark & Ms Hayran Unwin are!



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 22:48

Join or Login to Reply
Message 65 of 72 in Discussion

and just to finish off Mark & Hayran Unwin took "Goods" Known to be STOLEN! They both knew exactly who Gary Robb was! as did the TRNC Government!



Their Victims certainly didn't! Old ground I know, but non the less relevant!



So you see Timothy Cadman it's not just a matter of "DON'T BUY OFF PLAN" It's a matter of FRAUD! and Fraudsters lining their own pockets for their own ends, it has nothing to do with the political situation just GREEDY individuals cashing in! and walking away laughing at the victims left behind with the cancers, and as in my case the deaths we have had to deal with!



The Builder would have got no-where without their partners in Crime! in my case "Unwins" the TRNC Government, and Talat Kursat!



Now why don't all of you "TAKE ME TO COURT" for defamation of your charaters



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 22:59

Join or Login to Reply
Message 66 of 72 in Discussion

TRNC Victim,



I was trying to stay on topic and discuss the Alpan Uz scam. This was later than 2003 and for those buying at this later time, there were already alarm bells ringing with regards to Unwins, a certain advocate and the pitfalls associated with buying in the TRNC.



My suggestion and I still stand by this is that anyone now handing over stage payments to Estate Agents IS gullible. There are just far too many victims as a result of taking this action and it is now very well publicised.



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 23:33

Join or Login to Reply
Message 67 of 72 in Discussion

Bradus



Alpan Uz scam, Aga scam, Unwins scam, Kursat scam! they all mix together to make a TRNC Government Scam! with many, many scams inbetween! one I remember well is Reg of the "Victorianne Homes Scam" putting a house up for charity scam! then disappearing scam



So many scams small and large!



Listen to Timothy Cadman in message 59 and learn from Cyprus 44 & Trip Advisor (laughable) This Agent is number 001 and a half



Still waiting for the Saints to come Marching In



Jwheeler&Sons


Joined: 10/06/2008
Posts: 127

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 01:12

Join or Login to Reply
Message 68 of 72 in Discussion

Thank you to all the moderators for allowing me to post.

and a Happy New Year to all.



This lot got me and my kids, when we were grieving.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 09:03

Join or Login to Reply
Message 69 of 72 in Discussion

Hindsight is 20/20 I too admit to not knowing who Gary Robb was until I came here. In fairness to the Estate Agent who sold me a Kulaksiz villa, he did give me chapter and verse and even took me to look down on Amaranta Valley but was adamant he would never sell an Aga property. Having seen the erosion valley, it was just as well because I would not have bought there. Also in fairness to him, he could not have known what Kulaksiz was up to, BUT by then, there was a small mortgage on the K5 site and he should have done a search, and so should my Advocate (who put in writing that she would) and made me aware of the small mortgage. At that stage it was only £1,600, it was just one month after I bought that the bigger mortgage was taken out. When an Advocate puts in writing that she will do a search before she advances your money to the builder, you assume she did it. this was Sept. 2005 and it was not until March 2008 whilst registering the Contract, the truth came out.



philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3533

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 13:15

Join or Login to Reply
Message 70 of 72 in Discussion

All very sad for those who lost



Marcusharris


Joined: 28/12/2011
Posts: 90

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 18:02

Join or Login to Reply
Message 71 of 72 in Discussion

Very very sad :-( can I ask you all why is a business who is envolved with such horrific things, criminal things!!! Can be allowed to advertise on this forum! If contactd by anyone in charge I would offer DOUBLE and leave the spot empty & pay a year in cash!!!



philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3533

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 19:57

Join or Login to Reply
Message 72 of 72 in Discussion

Msg 71 , becarefull



North Cyprus Forums Homepage

Join Cyprus44 Forums | Already a member? Login

You must be a member and logged in, to post replies and new topics.