[ SCANDAL ] The Unwin Story - when does this finally stop..?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 17:22

I HAD AND HAVE NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER WITH UNWIN ESTATE AGENTS.



For years now this board has been the platform of many extremely negative threads about 'the Unwins'. A certain Jwheeler&Sons never gives up - time and time again she (?) starts a thread with her problem again.

Although I've read most of her posts I've never read details about the problem.

As far as I understand it now Jwheeler&Sons signed a contract with Unwin, paid a deposit, pulled out of the contract - and got her deposit paid back.

1 : If this is the case - why go on damaging this estate agent?!

2 : If the above is not true - at least tell the readers ons this board what happened (your review).



In many countries people who write the way they do it on this board would be taken to court.

And rightly so.

Isabella


Joined: 02/10/2008
Posts: 199

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 17:25

Well said. I for one get really annoyed when I see another thread with this company mentioned in it.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 17:45

Well yes you both have a right to your opinions and frankly DC since you no longer have interest in helping those who do not help them themselves (property victims) I dont quite get why it is of any interest to you. So when someone wants to post on a subject you don't want to see, why not ignore it? The heading tells you what it is about so if you dont like it, you dont have to read it.



Are you tryng to get her banned (again).



News Flash, JWheleler and Sons has a much right to post on this forum as anyone, on any subject. Doesn't the fact that she has not given up tell you something? There are many other topcs to read and comment on, a great many from DC, some I find interesting. As far as I know JWheeler& Sons does not an EAW outstanding.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 17:52

@ msg 3, pollymarples: FACTS, please, FACTS. The rest of your post is irrelevant, because it's the same old, the same old.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 18:23

http://northcyprusfreepress.com/2011/12/06/north-cyprus-property-victims-estate-agents-law-supports-commission-return/



Information regarding the law was provided by the Chairman of the Estate Agents Association, who also confirmed that the law was restrospective.



If you feel you will never get you Kocan for whatever reason, I would urge you to put your case in writing and send it to the Chairman. All Estate Agents have to be members of the Association, should by law carry Insurance (we would call it professional indemnity) and the Association is obliged to look at your complaint within 28 days. You do not need to engage the services of an Advocate to complain.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 18:31

DC why do I need to provide YOU with facts message 3. All I am saying is you may not like what JWheeler and Sons writes and you are under no obligation to read her posts.



Thankfully, I know she wont take a blind bit of noitce of you or your opinions.



No one doubts your right to post as you have, I personally doubt your motives unless of course Mr Unwin is a great friend of yours. I would have thought he was big enough to defend himself. Of all the roles I can imagine you in, defender of the Unwins is not one of them, but hey, if that floats your boat, go for it.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 18:32

@ msg 5, pollymarples: You are off-topic. Re msg 1: FACTS, please, FACTS.

northcyprus74


Joined: 11/01/2012
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 18:38

Fscts facts facts....



Speak to lawyers, read the papers, listen to peoples experiences.



Most people cant give facts etc as it could harm there cases / situations, I for one could give a list of 8 people of the top of my head of people not to buy from UNWINS and by posting so called threads its warning potential buyers not to fall for there tricks.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 18:39

@ msg 6, pollymarples: (...) I personally doubt your motives unless of course Mr Unwin is a great friend of yours. (...)

▶ You're very eager to WRITE, pollymarples, but allow me to suggest that you first READ a post.

I started my msg 1 with (quote): "I HAD AND HAVE NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER WITH UNWIN ESTATE AGENTS."

It means that I do not know the owner, manager or anyone from the staff.



The main lines of my msg 1 are STILL:

"As far as I understand it now Jwheeler&Sons signed a contract with Unwin, paid a deposit, pulled out of the contract - and got her deposit paid back.

1 : If this is the case - why go on damaging this estate agent?!

2 : If the above is not true - at least tell the readers ons this board what happened (your review)."



Pollymarples, don't try to derail the thread - it won't work with me.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 18:42

@ msg 7, northcyprus74: (...) I for one could give a list of 8 people of the top of my head of people not to buy from UNWINS and by posting so called threads its warning potential buyers not to fall for there tricks. (...)

▶ More rubbish. You 'could' but you don't. What's the use of such a post? FACTS or HOLD YOUR TONGUE.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 18:50

Why not DC, are you only one allowed to? You are wong, I did read what you said, but I find it strange you should be so defensive of someone you do not know. Do you personally know JWheeler and Sons?



My advice remains, and this is Estate Agent related and by definition related to Unwins too. Complain to the Estate Agents Association if you think you will not get your Kocan. You never know what you can get until you ask and it only costs a little effort and a stamp.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 18:55

@ msg 11, pollymarples: (...) but I find it strange you should be so defensive of someone you do not know. Do you personally know JWheeler and Sons? (...)

▶ I defend anything and anyone who is attacked without giving the FACTS. Maybe that's because I was a journalist for a respected Dutch newspaper and you were/are not.

▶ No, I do not know any Unwin nor JWheelerandSons. None of them.

▶ And I hate unfounded accusations.

▶ Which means: FACTS FIRST, please, FACTS.

I still haven't read them.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 19:10

So there appears to be no forthcoming facts then?

On a separate note I have just been reading an article on the BBC about a bed and breakfast business in Hastings (UK) whereby someone decided to (despite a good rating by everyone else that has stayed there) continually attack them on Trip Adviser resulting in a detrimental effect on their business.

If people want to continually attack a business on this board then they should post the facts of their accusations rather than what amounts to is pure speculation.

Post the facts and stand or fall by your accusations and take the consequences or just shut up.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 19:15

I do know JWheeler and I do know her story. I also know a lot of the Aga Victims who bought through Unwins. Of course Unwins had no idea who or what Robb was and are totally innocent of any allegations made against them by anyone. What flew over my head just then. You DC are on a forum, not writing for a Newspaper and cannot demand anything. It would be foolish for anyone to listen to your demands and reveal their case, if they have one. If they want to air their views on here, it is for the forum owner or the Moderators to decide if they overstep the mark.



I have never earned my living as a journalist and have never claimed to. I blog on NCFP and will continue to do so as long as I am allowed. Why you should even feel the need to bring up the subject is a mystery to me , but hey it's your thread, do as you please, within the rules of course.

stockiefan


Joined: 04/05/2009
Posts: 574

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 19:19

Aj, how strange that when cloggy posts something on here, you either jump to his defence of immediatly agree with his posts? If you put that pint down you could get your tongue further up his B***side.

EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 19:21

I have already commented on the latest thread by JWheeler&Sons about topic fatigue. They have started 12 threads on this subject in the last 18 months and most of these are eventually closed by the Mods for various reasons or simply run out of steam. I support everyone's right to post on this forum but just think that sometimes, there are cases of overkill and this only succeeds in boring readers. Multiple threads on the same subject risk people getting fatigued by the subject matter.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 19:22

@ msg 14, pollymarples: (...) You DC are on a forum, not writing for a Newspaper and cannot demand anything. (...)



▶ I do not demand anything - I just ask for FACTS. FACTS ONLY. And still they are not given - all we get here from you are words, derailing the first post in this thread.

If you know THE FACTS (see msg 1) - give them. Or ask JWheelerandSons to give the FACTS. Or stop damaging a business with unfounded accusations.

Easy, isn't it?

Why don't you do it?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 19:26

@ msg 16, EamonnMc: I think that as soon as my question in msg 1 is answered we could put this sad subject to rest. But, sorry to repeat this: NO FACTS are given, only accusations and unfounded rubbish.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 19:28

When you take between 5 and 6% commission from the purchase price of a villa the purchaser never gets or never gets title to, don't be surprised if you get some stick. That applies to all Estate Agents. Let us see that would apply to the purchasers from the following builders and mostly througn Estate Agents:

Anyone villa sold to a foreigner too close to a Military base/

Sercem

Santa Fe

Aga

Kulaksiz

Boyut

Armacon



I am sure this list can be added to. Unwins have the distinction of being mentioned so much simply because they have sold so many. I know there are satisfied customers. I wish all customers were.

Let us get one thing straight, I am defending JWheeler and her right to post., if DC and AJ do not agree with me, that is fine. Perhaps a moderator will find a 't' in my yahoo again and get rid of me.

Ed1957


Joined: 03/09/2011
Posts: 377

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 19:31

Nice one stockiefan.

Just one question, DC how does one prove a 'fact' is or is not true on this forum or any other forum?

Cyberspace is full of lies as are newspapers.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 19:34

@ msg 19, pollymarples: Very interesting. But it still does NOT justify the accusations of JWheelerandSons.

Polly, is it so difficult to read my question: JWheelerandSons (or you) give us THE FACTS about the 'Unwin scam".



P.S. Why don't you stop advocating your case the way you do? It doesn't help to solve any problem to tell us here time and time again - what do you expect 'us' to do for you?! Isn't it time to consider a new and smarter strategy?

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 19:36

What facts are requested? Do you want J. Wheelers side of the story? She posts under the name of "Hindsight" on here http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/411.asp

clipped from Google - 1/2012 Message 23 she writes very clearly what happened to her.



The other side of the story has to come from Unwins. If Unwins were bothered about their reputation they would have been on here every time defending themselves with every posting. If anyone else was bothered, this thread would not have got past the first post.





.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 19:38

Steve re message 15

Are you trying to make this personal?

Keep on topic or do not post at all.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 19:39

@ msg 20, Ed1957: A FACT would be a yes/no answer to this (from my msg 1): "As far as I understand it now Jwheeler&Sons signed a contract with Unwin, paid a deposit, pulled out of the contract - and got her deposit paid back."

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 19:40

I could understand all this if there were so few posts on here, that all there was to read was JWheelers posts.

There is so much to choose from. If JWheeler goes over the top, she gets banned.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 19:49

Still no facts about JWheeler's situation?

JWheeler needs to post exactly the facts about what has happened to him/her.

Ed1957


Joined: 03/09/2011
Posts: 377

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 19:51

DC But any one can say yes/no to anything, it does not denote a fact

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 19:57

@msg 25, pollymarples: (...) I could understand all this if there were so few posts on here, that all there was to read was JWheelers posts. There is so much to choose from. If JWheeler goes over the top, she gets banned. (...)

▶ That is not the point.

This is the point: "Jwheeler&Sons signed a contract with Unwin, paid a deposit, pulled out of the contract - and got her deposit paid back." (msg 1).

Is this true or not?

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 20:00

You decided you didn't want to support victims DC, that was your choice, I respect it.



However do not give me advice on what I should or shouldn't do. Walk a mile in my shoes then you might just be in a position to give advice.



I do not put very many posts on here, nowhere near the number you do. I ask nothing from anyone who is not willing to give their support. I even refused to take any of the money from the K5 fund raisers towards my costs in the legal battle, since I had no evction case to fight (my villa having been taken), I did not feel justified in taking money the others needed more than me. I once added your name to Stop the Blackmail without asking you, my mistake, for which I apologised. I ask people, I do not 'tell' them what they should do for me. I do not speak for K5, I speak for Pauline Read involved in the K5 cases. The govt try to shut me up, now you are trying to, too. Very odd.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 20:04

DC only answer questions about my own case. Although not when they come from you.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 20:04

pollymarples

Why are you trying to side track continually from the original question in post 1?

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 20:13

AJ read the cvmment from DC, it was an answer to his comment.



I am not trying to side track and I am equally sure that you would have closed this thread and banned JWheeler by now. Oh dear, you must feel emasculated, no power. Still two big brave chaps like you have to stick together.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 20:16

You can have a go at me if it makes you feel good but there is one question that this thread asked in message 1 that still has not been answered, I wonder why?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 20:21

@ msg 30, pollymarples: (...) DC only answer questions about my own case. (...)

▶ Good. But why then did you make yourself an insider and involved in this thread with this (quote from your post 14): "I do know JWheeler and I do know her story."?



▶ It seems now that you prefer to mention half of all stories. How dare you say this: "You decided you didn't want to support victims DC, that was your choice, I respect it."? I supported 'the case' with more than one free maps of the location of the demonstration in Nicosia. And I (and for that matter my wife) showed up there to support 'the case' (although we didn't have a problem). Where were the victims* and where were your other supporters (from behind their computers)? I don't want your apology for this unfair kick below the belt.

* And yes, that was the moment I decided to end my active support.

Isabella


Joined: 02/10/2008
Posts: 199

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 20:21

Please oh please close this thread and and take off any further threads that appear re JWheeler

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 20:30

@ msg 35, Isabella: No, sorry, there is no reason to close this thread as long as a discussion is going on about posts on this board which may be very close to or are plain libel*.



* Libel: "A published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation."



▶ This is the point: "Jwheeler&Sons signed a contract with Unwin, paid a deposit, pulled out of the contract - and got her deposit paid back." (msg 1). Addition: And started an ungoing campaign against a TRNC business.

Is this true or not?

selpak


Joined: 15/12/2011
Posts: 281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 20:39

The question in message 1 shall not be replied too,better to go along to sunset beach in the summer and interupt Mr Mark Unwin while he is enjoying himself playing in the sea on his or a jetski with his son.



I'm sure then all of your questions may well be solved,no more curiosity,only FACT's.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 20:40

Here's a FACT for you DC..... TRNC Victim signed a contract with Gary John Robb (Not knowing his past history) Witnessed by Mark Unwin (Who knew his past history) Then TRNC Victim paid into Unwins account a very large sum of money, which then Mark Unwin took his commission from! TRNC Victims has NEVER received either The Property, Title, or Kochan to the said property! this did not only happen to one Victim but to 100's who paid Robb's Commission directly to Mark Unwin! The Victims didn't pull out of the Contract, have never received either their deposits, or their commissions back or indeed anything whatsoever from Unwins Estate Agency! not even an apology for marketing for a criminal FACT!



Many victims of this scam (victims were told if they didn't pay their stage payments their contracts would be cancelled even though no work had been done on their properties FACT) properties were then sold again (DOUBLE SOLD by UNWINS FACT)! and Lawyers! FACT All Proveable FACT!

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 20:43

And the FACT is DC many have either lost their lives or are suffering dreadful ill health! I know that for a FACT DC



Thats without the other scams Alpan Uz? and I'm sure many more!



As for Libel! A False statement? My statement is True every bloody word!

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 20:46

@ msg 38, TRNCvictim: You suffer from the same problem as pollymarples: you don't read. I didn't ask for the umptieth explanation of problems and I wish you all the luck you may need.



▶ This is the point: "Jwheeler&Sons signed a contract with Unwin, paid a deposit, pulled out of the contract - and got her deposit paid back." (msg 1). Addition: And started an ungoing campaign against a TRNC business.

Is this true or not?



The question stands still unanswered. But time and time again the same estate agent was/is attacked - and I object to such behaviour.

Isabella


Joined: 02/10/2008
Posts: 199

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 20:54

Sorry DutchCrusader - Yes I agree - I understand that you just want your question answered and the thread then will have served its purpose. Seems quite straightforward to me - why cannot a simple question be answered?

selpak


Joined: 15/12/2011
Posts: 281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 20:58

Please stop all this bickering,just go down to sunset beach in the summer and speak direct to Mr Mark Unwin when he is there playing on his or some one's jetski with his son.



All of your questions can then get an answer.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 20:59

Exactly, Isabella. Your post is clear, straightforward and to the point. Too difficult for others here, I'm afraid. Makes me wonder why though.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 21:05

I'm maybe playing devils advocate here but I do think DC has a point. Most of you that know me, are fully aware that I am a strong supporter of victims of property scams in the TRNC. I never mince my words and I believe that property corruption is widespread and frequently it's no coincidence that the same Advocates and Estate Agents are involved. These businesses also work in partnership with builders that do not honour their contracts but move onto another site under a new name, only for the Advocate and Estate Agent to do further business.

To get the support of the wider community (property victims do need this) it helps if you can describe your experience, detailing what has occurred factually. Whilst knowing that J. Wheeler has experienced problems and because of previous posts, knowing exactly why she is angry and frustrated, it does not help her or for that matter other victims, when vague accusations are made with no evidence being given to support her claims.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 21:06

@ msg 42, selpak: (...) All of your questions can then get an answer. (...)



▶ Selpak, you can't read either.



I hope this helps you to understand my one and only question:

▶ This is the point: "Jwheeler&Sons signed a contract with Unwin, paid a deposit, pulled out of the contract - and got her deposit paid back." (msg 1). Addition: And started an ungoing campaign against a TRNC business.



Is this true or not?



Get it now?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 21:09

Isabella

Unfortunately most of those involved in this thread know the answer but are not willing or honest enough to supply the truth asked by the original question.

Those people (and they know who they are) have gone down in my estimation and I will not take any postings made by them with any credence.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 21:12

Yet when one reads her posts detailing what has happened, posters can then understand her anger but more importantly understand it.



I suggest that Julie looks at her previous posts under the name of Hindsight and reflect on how descriptive they were and how they had full meaning. These one line "guess the meaning posts", deter people from finding out more and lose support and sympathy or empathy.



Please read her old posts and Julie, do tell your full story.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 21:13

Don't you just hate it when you cannot type fast enough for your posts to follow on from each other?

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 21:27

selpak (mess 42)



I'll keep bickering until "I and the hundreds of Aga Victims get their commission back" that has paid for his and his sons jestski!



Is this straightforward & to the point enough for you DC?



Jwheeler&sons suffered in a different way, but never the less they suffered! and being bullied by a couple of Cyprus 44 veterans who love to make a point is rather ugly, I have been called a sad old sod, and I probably am, but I will never forgive the injustice, nor will I stop trying to make future victims understand the corruption as clearly, and as honestly as I can! It maybe difficult for you to understand and others, I hope you will never have to walk my last 3 years :-(



Unwins are as guilty as Gary John Robb, Tahir Soycan, and the rest of the Aga scam crew! of which there are many!



The Sad Old Sod! (I have decided this name suits me) could be my new ID

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 21:32

In principle I agree with DC. It is perfectly in order to state what happened but it is wrong to accuse without the facts. Let people draw their own conclusions rather than impose your own conclusion.

Furthermore, those who make such damaging accusations should be ready to provide personal details to the moderators when asked just in case it is required in court. Otherwise that person must incur a lifetime ban.

ismet

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 21:36

@ msg 22, dalartokat: (...) What facts are requested? Do you want J. Wheelers side of the story? She posts under the name of "Hindsight" on here http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/411.asp (clipped from Google - 1/2012 Message 23 she writes very clearly what happened to her.).



▶ Dalartokat, I've read (post 23 in) the link you provided. It still doesn't answer my question:

This is the point: "Jwheeler&Sons signed a contract with Unwin, paid a deposit, pulled out of the contract - and got her deposit paid back." (msg 1). (Addition: And started an ungoing campaign against a TRNC business. - my opinion, DC).

Is this true or not?

And now I ask also: how did she lose her life savings (which I read in her posts if I'm not mistaken)?

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 21:38

So this thread in its present form is pointless really ?



The only person who can satisfy Hans's curiosity is J Wheeler& sons themselves so would in not be a good idea to stop posting until said person responds.



J Wheeler may not be aware of this thread

Ed1957


Joined: 03/09/2011
Posts: 377

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 21:44

I am confused, the thread title does not mention JC Wheeler and sons, so why do they feature so much in this thread?



DC asked for facts, and seemingly got some.



He then stopped asking for facts, and we went back to Jc wheeler

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 21:44

@ msg 52, Turtle: (...) The only person who can satisfy Hans's curiosity (...)

▶ Turtle, it is not a matter of curiosity at all. I'm always on the side of people who are accused without any proof - they don't have to ask me to write. I've done that all through my life as a journalist and old habits...

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 21:46

@ msg 53, Ed1957: I suggest you read the text in msg 1. Or maybe read it twice?

EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 21:55

This , like ever post on the subject of "Unwins " has turned nasty. The subject seems to bring out the worst in people. Why is that ?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 21:55

Turtle

'J Wheeler may not be aware of this thread'



Believe me J Wheeler is more than aware of this thread.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 21:57

At the risk of going off at aother tangent already much discussed on another thread...

Elko2 msg 50 says "Furthermore, those who make such damaging accusations should be ready to provide personal details to the moderators when asked just in case it is required in court. Otherwise that person must incur a lifetime ban. "



Elko2 if only Izzet and more importantly his UK hosters could remove their own and seperate liability (to that of a given poster) for defamation on this forum, then what you suggest would be valid. However the reality is that both Izzet and his hosters are liable for any defamation made on this board under UK law. The defamed can simply choose which one to sue or all. If they had over deatils of who the orignal poster actualy is that does not change this.



The result of the above is that what actualy happens in the real world is that sites (hosted in the UK) get summarily and aribtarily closed by their hosters [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 21:59

simply as the result of someone merely claiming they have been defamed on it, regardless of it they actual have been defamed or not and without any court case any or due process or often even any cursory assement on the part of the hoster as to if there has been any actual defmation. This is true if Izzet and or the hoster have the deatils of who the poster actual is and are willing to pass it onto anyone claiming they are being defamed, it makes no difference.



The simply truth is in my opinion is that some of the kinds of posts we see on here continue to get posted and are not removed, sooner or later this site will get shut down by its hosters and without any court cases and without there necessarily having been any defamation in the first place. Izzet knwoing who the actual poster is makes no difference to the likelyhood of this happening.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:00

DC



I think if you look back on Jwheeler&sons current post's you will see they are not posting about their particular problems? but other victims dreadful outcome of the TRNC corruption! perhaps you and others should sometimes take a deep breath, and read the post correctly? before you bully victims of the TRNC!

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:00

@ msg 56, EamonnMc: What is nasty in this thread? I can only conclude that several people do all they can to get away from the simple question in msg 1:

▶ This is the point: "Jwheeler&Sons signed a contract with Unwin, paid a deposit, pulled out of the contract - and got her deposit paid back." (msg 1). (Addition: And started an unfair, ongoing campaign against a TRNC business. - My opinion, DC).

Is this true or not?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:05

EamonnMc

All that is being asked for is an answer to the question posed in message 1 and it appears as those that have posted prolifically on this thread and have skirted around the issue now have gone quiet.

It really is quite easy, are the questions/statements posed in message 1 true or not and if not then there should be evidence to prove any counter accusation, Simple.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:06

AJ,. and how would you know that ?

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:09

Perhaps DC & his cronies should just read jwheeler&sons posts properly? They are trying to highlight other victims problems :-( not their own!

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:12

@ msg 60, TRNCvictim: (...) I think if you look back on Jwheeler&sons current post's you will see they are not posting about their particular problems? but other victims dreadful outcome of the TRNC corruption! perhaps you and others should sometimes take a deep breath, and read the post correctly? before you bully victims of the TRNC! (...)



▶ It's not about JWheelerandsons problems, not about yours nor other victims. It is about a continuous attack on a TRNC business without given facts and a simple answer to my question can shed light to the 'why?'. Nobody is bullied in this thread (at least not by me - although I've had my share of unfair text in some posts).

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:17

I know I am not directly 'on topic' here and I will try not to harp on about this more than I already have so far but I will try once more to get a point accross here and then do my best to let it rest.



Who would it benefit if tomorrow this site was no longer running ? 'Victims' and potential future 'victims' or perpetrators ?



Many seem to be of the impression and understanding that as long as what is posted here is not defamatory, as ultimately judged by a court of law, then there is no risk to the site. Or that as long as the person who makes a post can be identifed in the real world there is no risk to the site. This is sadly and unfortunately just not true for a site like this one that is hosted in the UK. I wish it was true but it is not.



So I humbly and respectfuly ask people to at least consider what the repercussions of certain types of posting are, for you may well actualy end up aiding the very ones you seek to call to account.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:19

Turtle

Ref message 63

Ask Polly.

EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:25

Msg 62, AlsancakJack,



The whole thing is pointless, the question asked will probably never be answered., that's up to the person asked the question . I'm also sure that they have read the post in this thread but have decided not to engage with it. What can be done about this ?.......nothing !

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:28

@ msg 68, EamonnMc: (...) What can be done about this ?.......nothing ! (...)

▶ I disagree. Repeated and unfounded accusations (imo a campaign) can be convincingly countered by a repeated question.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:29

erolz (mess 66)



If this site was shut down tomorrow, another would be opened! perhaps not hosted in the UK! but would still be opened! victims of fraud & the perpetrators of fraud will always find a way!



So I humbly & respectfully ask people to consider truth and honesty in certain types of postings, because I honestly & truthfully call to account the aiding & abetting of criminal activity in the TRNC :-(

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:31

EamonnMc

You are correct it is pointless because no one has had the guts to dispute the questions posed in message 1. But I guess we now can all read between the lines and understand what is going on.

EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:31

Msg69, Hans,



You cannot force people to engage, it's their choice .

selpak


Joined: 15/12/2011
Posts: 281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:35

It seem's the TRNC attract's all mucky types of people after reading some of the post's and thread's and the link im now posting, http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/83386.asp



It really is a shame that cyprus has or is becoming a dumping ground for the UK's crook's and con-men & women,yes you all know who you are !

Looking around it also seem's the island is infested with illegal british worker's,i really do feel so sorry for all the companies who try to operate legal here and so many Brit's flout the law and run their little business illegal and without regard for the country,i think if they was back in England they would also be claiming benefits and working,tiler's,plumber's ,brickies ,Electrician's ,pool cleaner's ,gardener's ,you name it we have got it here in the TRNC working illegal,even ladies cleaning houses and other chores,you are all as bad as one another,your stealing from the country.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:37

C44 threads are often hi-jacked or derailed, but not this one. The question in msg 1 still stands. Maybe JWheelerandsons will find the time to read this thread and especially the question in msg 1 in the near future.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:40

Not just from the UK selpak, there are many home grown criminals

EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:40

Selpak,



With respect, if Northern Cyprus was an ordinary country, people living legally in it would be able to carry on commerce and earn a living .

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:43

TRNCvictim you are absolutely right that if this site closed down tomorrow others would spring up in its place. I do not disagree with that one bit.



It would still be however as far as I am concerned be a loss if this site were to be shut down. A loss (or cost and incovience) to Izzet and a loss to all those that use it not as a means to call to account 'criminals' but for other reasons.



TRNCvictim if you post knowing and understanding that your post may well lead to the forum being shut down, regardless of if it is libelous or not and without any need for a court case and are happy to do it anyway, knowing that 100 other places will spring in its place up where you can call to account those you wish to then good luck to you.



All I am saying is do not do it thinking there is no risk to the site as long as what is posted is true. Sadly and regrettably that just is not the case.

EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:45

Msg 74, Hans,



Do you not think they are reading every word ? As I said previously , you cannot force people to engage , they make their own choices.

selpak


Joined: 15/12/2011
Posts: 281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 22:59

Eamonnmc

You say, if Northern Cyprus was an ordinary country, people living legally in it would be able to carry on commerce and earn a living .

But you all knew before you came to live here that it was not a legal country yet you still came in your drove's and they still work illegal,why did you or they not choose an ordinary country,because it cost's money to live in an ordinary country and most ex pat's can live on the cheap in the TRNC and work illegal,it is their nature to steal,to thieve,they cannot help them self,stealing from the country that is what alot of the brit's are good at,you all know who you are ! ILLEGAL WORKERS ON CYPRUS44,yes you should feel guilty,your as bad as some estate agent's.

EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 23:07

Selpak,



Ignoring your prejudice about ex pats etc......if people could earn an honest living by using their skills, within the law.. they would be able to contribute to the general fabric of society by paying taxes on what they earn. many would do this willingly, I suspect.

EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 23:10

Sorry Hans,



I feel a hijacking is about to happen, lol.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 23:26

Bit of an exaggeration Selpack, "came in droves"



Top marks for stereotyping though. Loved the bit, "it is their nature to steal,to thieve,they cannot help them self,stealing from the country that is what a lot of the Brit's are good at"



Lovely. You hold such a balanced view.

selpak


Joined: 15/12/2011
Posts: 281

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 23:42

Eamonnmc



I am laughing at your post.(......if people could earn an honest living by using their skills, within the law.. they would be able to contribute to the general fabric of society by paying taxes on what they earn. many would do this willingly, I suspect. )



What do you suspect Eamonnmc? That alot of brit's would willingly pay taxes in there adopted country,please do not make me laugh any more,my friend next door will think ive got a turkish boy in here with me !



The Brits that came in drove's and many who work illegal can work legal if they establish a company,then they can start paying taxes to help support the country they live in and not the Fez,that place is like an who's who of illegal workers each early evening,ive never seen so many Brit's in work clothes in my life until i went in that bar one day.

EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
12/01/2012 23:57

Selpak,

I'm glad that my comments are such a source of amusement to you....everyone needs some joy in their lives but my point is still valid....many people in NC are on a budget but are used to hard work and I'm sure would like to pay their way. The advantages to be able to work legally ( without having to deposit large sums of money..that frankly many don't have ) are obvious and would be embraced by most, in my opinion. People are just people, they just want to be happy and being happy is to be satisfied with you lot, wanting to be regular in your dealings with government and to be able to contribute to the society that you live in. It's really quite simply.

EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
13/01/2012 00:04

Of course, I meant " it's really quite Simple "

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
13/01/2012 00:07

Well yet again "The Unwins Story" when does it end? seems to have been hijacked! but not this one hey DC

Jonholmes


Joined: 08/11/2011
Posts: 184

Message Posted:
13/01/2012 00:07

Surely people who need to work ,check out where they are going to reside.I wanted to come for a season but found out if is very difficult. If you need to work then why go to a country where it is very hard.BTW this is not a knock , sometimes I think if Britain did the same it may be better, but that's another story.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
13/01/2012 00:14

Selpak, setting up a company when say your business is running an ISP or reselling grey market Sat TV , is both feasable and indeed necessary because if you did not with such businesess you would get caught very quickly. Paying your taxes because there is no way to get away with not paying them is not really any big deal. For non citizens however who do small amounts of self employed part time work, often earning amounts low enough to not even be liable for tax any way, setting up a company is simply not pratical. There can be no doubt that if there was a viable means for non citizens to do such work legaly SOME would choose to do so and that is a real test of 'intergity'. That is choosing to go down a legal route even thought they could almost certainly get away with it if they didnt. Choosing the legal route when there is no way to get away with it if you dont is different. It is a problem that there is no viable legal route for these people and that does push some who [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
13/01/2012 00:16

happily take a legal route if there was a viable one into just working 'under the table' instead. To lump them in all togeather in the way you do ignores the reality. Comparing them to people who run businesses where setting up a company is viable and there would be no way for them to avoid doing so and taxes if they didnt is in my opinion meaningless.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
13/01/2012 00:21

AJ Msg67



With all due respect I asked you not polly ?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
13/01/2012 00:29

Jonholmes it is not that black and white, at least as I see things. Lets take a hypothetical example. A couple come to live in north cyprus as residents but knowing all the rules and regulations. They have an independant income from outside Cyprus. They make friends and are having a lovely time. Then one day a friend asks one of them to make a special birthday cake, because they have skills in that area. They do it for free and happily so. Then a month later somone they do not really know asks them to make them a special cake. This time they agree but its agreed the person wanting the cake will ask pay for the ingredients. Then another person asks. THis time the cake maker, who enjoys making cakes and wants to make them for people is thinking well maybe a small charge for my time is not unreasonable. The problem is that would be working illegaly, so they can set up a company with a 100,000 pound bond in order to be able to make cakes [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
13/01/2012 00:33

for people and still be able to add in a small charge for their time. Or they can just stop making cakes for people. Or they can make them but always at their own expense of time. What they can not do currently and this is where the system is lacking, is legaly make cakes with a small charge for their time, short of setting up a company and the 100,000 pound bond.

If they chose to just make the cakes and add a small charge for their time 'illeglay' they are being lumped in by selpak as 'thieves that can not help stealing' and 'as bad as estate agents' which to me is both a little harsh and ignores the point I think EamonnMc was making about the 'system' forcing people into working illegaly because of its inflexibility.

astro941


Joined: 22/05/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
13/01/2012 00:42

You sure need to know your 'unwins' to understand all of this!

Jonholmes


Joined: 08/11/2011
Posts: 184

Message Posted:
13/01/2012 00:53

Erolz, but my point is they should know the rules ,I would like to come for a summer season to work but Iknow it would be difficult or illegal,therefore will choose somewhere else or (which I will not) take the risk.In these days of internet and forums etc most people should know what the situation is where they live or intend to live .

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
13/01/2012 00:56

Well said Erolz, perhaps if those in power looked at the issues that truly impact on economy, investment and increasing Government revenue, then the TRNC would be more financially stable. It appears to me to be a diversionary tactic to blame a minority for working illegally whilst ignoring the real problems.





Think about how much money the TRNC Government could make if it made builders transfer deeds upon completion and actually received the taxes payable. I guarantee it would be more financially viable than concentrating on a very small group of illegal workers.

TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
13/01/2012 01:20

DC,

My understanding is that Julie did sign a contract. Backed out of contract and over 3 years fought Unwins and she finally got back a settlement fee that was the equivalant of the commission that was paid to Unwins from the builder.

For many years she wanted other Estate Agents to fight Unwins to get all of her £10k back, but that was NEVER going to happen.

It is also my understanding that the builder paid Unwins their commission fee back after Unwins resold her property. Therefore Unwins were out no money for the sale of the property.

EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
13/01/2012 01:34

Msg 96,



Please, we do not need a 3rd party explanation, We need to hear from those who post on here , so often.

EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
13/01/2012 01:36

Msg 97,



That is JWheelers&sons.

zookeeper


Joined: 17/03/2010
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
13/01/2012 01:58

May I suggest that Jwheeler&sons might like to vent their anger through other channels such as a Video on UTube.

Jwheeler&Sons


Joined: 10/06/2008
Posts: 141

Message Posted:
13/01/2012 02:27

Moderators, thank you for allowing me to post.

Harold2555



Joined: 19/04/2008
Posts: 1139

Message Posted:
13/01/2012 08:08

We have closed threads where the posting has used intemperate language on this subject before. I will close this subject as it also smacks of a witch hunt and no one has the right to demand answers and hector posters and it will not be tolerated.







Harold

Harold2555



Joined: 19/04/2008
Posts: 1139

Message Posted:
13/01/2012 08:08

This thread is now closed. Reason: Not specified.