Banning... Is it that simple :-/ ???

northcyprus74


Joined: 11/01/2012
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
16/01/2012 23:31

Hope no one takes this the wrong way...



I havent been a member that long but over the last few weeks I have read about MarcusHarries being banned for no apparent reason, Unwins being slagged off again & again, now Hans D has been banned for questioning the owner of the site...



Not that I am a legal expert & I certainly know very little of freedom of speach & internet law, but surely baning users cant be as simple as this?



Finally if the agent ( Unwins ) is as bad as I have read on this forum & the papers then why are they allowed to plaster there name at the head of this forum?!

paddywack


Joined: 04/05/2009
Posts: 959

Message Posted:
16/01/2012 23:42

Re.Unwins, they pay.

AndyR



Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 317

Message Posted:
16/01/2012 23:44

Have i missed something? What's DC been banned for this time?

Jonholmes


Joined: 08/11/2011
Posts: 184

Message Posted:
16/01/2012 23:46

Message 1 , ironically you might find out sooner than later , Andy r there are several threads on here (most closed ) explaining why D/C is banned for 3 days.

northcyprus74


Joined: 11/01/2012
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
16/01/2012 23:49

Correct there are threads giving reasons for the ban, my question was is it that simple?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
16/01/2012 23:49

northcyprus74 you have no more rights to free speech on this forum (or just about any other) than you have a right to come into my home to execrise your right to free speech.

This is a privately owned space, where the owner chooses to allow anyone to come and join and post. Comparable to me having an open house evening in the real world. However if I have an open house and you choose to annoy, insult or upset me sufficently then I have every right to ask you to leave and no right of yours to free speech changes that. That is just the way it is. If you do not like that then do not contribute but if you choose to contribute do so understanding that this site and the forum belongs to the owner of it and they can do with it as they like. We are in fact guests here.

northcyprus74


Joined: 11/01/2012
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
16/01/2012 23:57

Ok erolz, good way of explainning however are forums not usually conducted on the basis of freedom of speech.



Ref msj 2 is money the only reason?



I find this forum informative & friendly, but surely this forum should protect people or advise them on whom to buy from & whom not to?



Is it not in Cyp44's best intention to not gain from the bad profits earned by certain businesses but name & shame them?

northcyprus74


Joined: 11/01/2012
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 00:03

Forums are governed by a set of individuals, collectively referred to as staff, made up of administrators and moderators, which are responsible for the forums' conception, technical maintenance, and policies (creation and enforcing). Most forums have a list of rules detailing the wishes, aim and guidelines of the forums creators. There is usually also a FAQ section contain basic information for new members and people not yet familiar with the use and principles of a forum (generally tailored for specific forum software).



Rules on forums usually apply to the entire user body and often have preset exceptions, most commonly designating a section as an exception. For example, in an IT forum any discussion regarding anything but computer programming languages may be against the rules, with the exception of a general chat section.



Forum rules are maintained and enforced by the moderation team, but users are allowed to help out via what is known as a report system. Most American forum s

AndyR



Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 317

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 00:03

Ok, looked back and read the relevant threads and looked at the relevant image!



I agree with Izzet on this one, It's no-one's business how anyone chooses to react to a death or how they express that reaction. I'm sure there are many forum members who haven't posted on Mr Denktash's passing so why comment on Izzet alone?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 00:04

How Izzet chooses to run the forum is up to Izzet. If he runs it in a manner that people do not like sufficently then it would not survive, it (the forum) relies on users for the content. However it is self evidently a popular forum and probably the most popular North Cyprus expat forum and has been for many years, so he must be doing something right.



I could tell you the story of the NTLhell forum bck in the UK over 12 years ago now. It was massively popular and has been set up specificaly so customers of NTL could discuss their frustrations and problems with the company NTL. It grew and became a thorn in NTL's side. Then one day the owner sold the site, to NTL and took a job at NTL. The users who's contributions had made the site were rightly quite upset at this, but the owner owned the site and could and did do what he wanted with it. That is just the way it is.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 00:05

northcyprus74 (mess 1)



As paddywack says in (mess 2) It is that simple! unfortunately Unwins have a very bad reputation, but they Pay for advertising on this board just why Marcus was banned is beyond me! having said that I have been banned previously for being honest! sometimes on this forum "honesty is not always the best policy"! & it's a pity Unwins don't pay their debts to their victims! then they could look forward to a bright and happy future in the TRNC selling properties with glossy brochures with honest, salesmen like Timothy Cadman, and honest buyers like The Saints, and the "sad old sods" (like me) can then "sod off" I can't wait..........



And I certainly won't take it the "wrong way"

northcyprus74


Joined: 11/01/2012
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 00:05

Forums are governed by a set of individuals, collectively referred to as staff, made up of administrators and moderators, which are responsible for the forums' conception, technical maintenance, and policies (creation and enforcing). Most forums have a list of rules detailing the wishes, aim and guidelines of the forums creators. There is usually also a FAQ section contain basic information for new members and people not yet familiar with the use and principles of a forum (generally tailored for specific forum software).



Rules on forums usually apply to the entire user body and often have preset exceptions, most commonly designating a section as an exception. For example, in an IT forum any discussion regarding anything but computer programming languages may be against the rules, with the exception of a general chat section.



Forum rules are maintained and enforced by the moderation team, but users are allowed to help out via what is known as a report system. Most American forum s

northcyprus74


Joined: 11/01/2012
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 00:09

Ok, marcus was banned for 10 years, is this not harsh? When I look back at what he wrote was a 10 year ban normal?



Msj 8 & 12 can be deleted will post a link.

northcyprus74


Joined: 11/01/2012
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 00:10

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum



Yes banning is that simple

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 00:19

northcyprus74 you can try and influence how any given forum is run and maybe you will be sucsessful doing so and if that is what this thread is about then good luck to you.

However the idea that there is any kind of legal obligation on a forum owner to those who freely and willingly choose to contribute is nothing more than wishful thinking. No such obligation exists.



The only real incentive for a forum owner to run a forum in one way or another is to make it more popular by doing so. Nothing else. When you have a sucsessful forum it is hard to argue that it is not being run right or as well as it could. Personaly I think there are changes that could be made as to how this forum is run that would make it better, and when I joined many years ago I expresed these. However then and now I accept that its down to the owner to choose to listen to such suggestion or not and the only 'test' is, is the forum popular or not and this one plainly is.

Jonholmes


Joined: 08/11/2011
Posts: 184

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 00:28

Erolz, do you run any forums, or are you giving your opinion?, I think that this forum now relies on advertising revenues for its operating costs ( I may be wrong) so how can the owner turn down paying customers ?

northcyprus74


Joined: 11/01/2012
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 00:30

Erol, love the NTL example...



I have no reason at all to tarnish this forum but simply asked the questions I did due to sheer curiosity.



You are absolutly correct, a forum is not in place to be used as a source of knowledge ir advice ( even though it seems that way ) but it is in place to benefit the creator.



This thread can be closed as I think I have answered all the relavent points myself!



DOH!!!!!!!



can be kept open if desired.

northcyprus74


Joined: 11/01/2012
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 00:33

Its not about turning down a pay customer but having a principle in place on whom from and whom not from to take money from!



My opinion

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 00:35

I have run forums and I have had an interest in the potential of forums to change the balance of power between connected consumers and companies for many many years. Almost as long as such forums have existed. In fact many moons ago I wrote a short piece for the uk daily telegraph about that very subject. I could find a link for you if interested.

There are many types of forum, some entirely non commercial in any way, like the ones I personaly have run, and everything up to full commercial enterprises.

To me this forum closest ananolgy is that of a newspaper or magazie with a readers letter section. The letters section is a part of the forum but only a part of it, there is much else other than that. Advertising is a revenue source and just like with a paper or magazine, advertsing can influecne both editorial content and what reader generated content is published or not.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 00:39

Oh here is the telegraph article I reffer to above in case anyone is interested.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/steve-jones/4760913/Personal-view-Erol-Ziya.html

Jonholmes


Joined: 08/11/2011
Posts: 184

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 00:41

Erolz you seem to be implying that the advertisers have a say(directly/indirectly) to what the forum members can say or am I reading too much into your last sentence?

It could explain a few closed threads .

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 00:46

You are reading too much into my post.



Imagine you write a letter to the times slating some aspect of say British Airways, who also happen to advertise heavily in the Times. Your letter does not get published. Is that because the times advertises there or for some other reason ? You can ahve your suspicions but you can not really know.



I know there are good and valid reason why some posts, even those that could utlimately be 'emminently defndable' in court vs a liable suit might get removed from a forum hosted in the UK, that are not to do with advertsing revenue in any way but actualy are just about protecting the forum from being closed down by its hosters.



As to if specific posts here have been closed for that reason or because of the inmpact of them on advertsing revenue, I just could not say nor do I think anyone else can. We can all have our own buest guesess as too if this is the case or not but thats all they are.

northcyprus74


Joined: 11/01/2012
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 00:49

Its exactly what erolz is implying, my opinion is; this site can expose unwins and once it starts it wont stop... By paying the forum the are preventing the truth from coming out....



Does anyone agree?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 00:59

I have to say 15 years ago, when the internet in general and forums in particular was very new in the sense fo general usage and I was much younger and more idealisitic I had dreams that the technology could and would lead to wonderous and positive changes. That by having new ways of comming to togeather and forming communites and having discussion and debate that were not possible before, we can so many aspects of out lives, from partiaptory democracy to holding large companies to account and much more beside.

15 years on having watched and particpated I have a somewhat different perspective. All the things I hoped would be possible are in fact possible but what limits them is not in fact technology , but people. People are what limits what is and is not possible and only have to look at some of the sheer nasty and vindictive behaviour that manifest on this forum from time to time to see that imo.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 01:04

The limits are all human and as old as the hills. Envy, spite, arrogance, contempt, greed and a thousand other human weaknesses are what limit the potential, not megabits of bandwith or meg hetz of processing power of gigabytes os storage.



This site could be a crusading site fof speaking out against injustice and unfairness, but that was never it purpose or intent. I see nothing wrong with Izzet wanting to run a site that produces revenue, that is his choice as it is yours to choose weather to participate here or not. There are sites like northcyprusfreepress who's remit and the point of their creation was to be a place where 'truth can come out' and it exits and serves that purpose well imo.



Why you want this site to also have the same purpose I am not sure ? In any case what this sites purpose is not under your control. It is under Izzets. All you control is will I post on it onr not.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 07:19

Let's see.... "unfortunately Unwins have a very bad reputation" if you analyse this statement it may be found to mislead... They probably have more satisfied customers than unsatisfied ones.. This board is a distillation of a section of the TRNC (mostly ex-pat) population, both resident and holiday home owners. The fact is that in relation to all business transactions most people only choose to post about problems and satisfied customers don't bother. That's the nature of the beast... It is often abused as a facility to air grievances under the guise of 'freedom of speech' with the proviso that the offended party can always 'take me to court' if they don't like being called a crook... which is totally true but in practice totally unfair. Hence the need for site owners and site hosters to be aware that they will be the ones held equally responsible for any libel/slander. This is where an appreciation of our collective responsibility lies.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 07:28

I'm not here to defend Unwins or otherwise, I'm here to advocate caution when posting concerning businesses in the TRNC, as to do otherwise may close this site down for good. We have to keep our house in order, that's a partnership between contributors, readers, moderators and the owner. If you don't like that set-up you can go elsewhere... undermine that set-up and you can expect a ban. (DC's short ban was done for different reasons)

Of course lots of people also don't even have anything to do with this board for a variety of reasons too. This board is not the be-all and end-all of the TRNC, although some would have you believe otherwise. Others have tried and so far pretty much failed to set up rival boards based on off-the-shelf BB packages which are feature-rich but don't have the varied membership that 44 has built up.

metininkibris


Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 86

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 08:12

Good input from Groucho & Erolz whilst there can be no doubt this is probably the most popular forum re north Cyprus it is without doubt the most draconian re members being banned comments being editeed and what can and can not be discussed.



On other forums re north Cyprus that are not run for aa profit you the members are encouraged to give input re the running/ development of the forum.

Respect is earned by enforcing the myrid of rules EVENHANDEDLY & WITHOUT FAVOR OR BIAS not as here rule



►4. Respect The Forum Admins

Forum admins have the final word. If you have a problem or a complaint, email Izzet off board. Do not post it on the board.



So yes it is that simple this is a website run for profit the forum is a small part of cyprus44.com



Members have no rights at all you, members can post at the discretion of the moderators and owner END OF !

Forum admins do not need to explain their actions. Do not complain about this.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 09:37

To join or not to join , that is the question . Nobody is forced to join , it is a personal choice Metin , it just baffles me , you knew everything about the board , warts and all , you read the rules and accepted them , you must have , because you still decided to join , but why ? if you disagreed with them .

Simbas

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 10:11

Well said Simbas! And all the waffle about "what a forum is" or "how a typical forum should be run" is as good as asking "how long is a piece of string?"

There are many types of forums, but mainly you have the stand alone social discussion forums, and forums belonging to websites that are there for financial gain. The former has more freedom of speech" in terms of how far you can go with your comments. Because it is not affecting the purpose or the business of the forum, as would be the case in the latter.

As "metinkıbrıs" said "So yes it is that simple this is a website run for profit the forum is a small part of cyprus44.com". If you went on to a forum that was on a National Front Web site and started to blabber about socialism and human rights - you would be banned for life!

Onf you went on a website that was promoting fossil fuels, that also had a forum, and started to post about the Green House Effect caused by their use. The forum will not stop BP from advertising?

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 10:25

Having said the above; I must add that the Unwins case and cyprus44 in its actual format as a forum is a little bit unique! There are of course many other estate agents or schools who would pay for the ads, but Izzet sticks to the principle of "first come first served" without much interest in what the forum members may think about a specific organisation. Something that is at his discretion since the forum belongs to him. There is not much point in posting and criticising the owner openly IN HIS OWN FORUM! Addressed as personal attacks such posts are banned. Perhaps you should read more about our beloved Denktash's history and find out how he delalt with those who disagreed with him

Popularity of and the links to this forum, plus the "click rate" is benefiting the whole site by keeping it on the first page of most listings by search engines that include the keyword "north cyprus" or even "cyprus". A new-comer can be mistaken in thinking this is more like a stand alone forum

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 10:45

Message 1

In another posting you state that as a TC you feel numb at the passing of Rauf Denktas, perhaps Izzet felt the same way, if so then it's understandable that he would take exception to an ex pat questioning why he hadn't commented on a thread on the forum.

Like it or not Izzet is the owner of the board and if he felt unhappy or insulted by what DC posted then he is within his rights to ban him, simple.

We all know that we can't actually leave this forum but if people dislike it or the formula it uses then they are not compelled to post on here, there are other boards available for those who want them.

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 11:51

I feel it should be clearly stated in the "rules" (Simbas, msg 29), and indeed on the homepage, that at the discretion (and dare I say whim) of the owner and/or moderators the following can happen :

(a) a thread can be closed

(b) a thread can be removed altogether

(c) a member can be banned

If only there were another such widely-used and informative English-medium forum for the KKTC, but at present there isn't :-( ... and it seems to me that Izzet is currently using this fact to his advantage ...

dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
17/01/2012 11:58

Surely if the board 'belongs' to Izzet he is within his right to evict or ban who or what he likes ...





Izzets board is a business really, so if you insult him he can say 'no deal' ...