mud slinging starts before greentree meeting

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
19/01/2012 21:39

http://famagusta-gazette.com/speaker-launches-scathing-attack-on-cyprus-envoy-downer-turkey-called-a-b-p14222-69.htm



its all going to end in divorce i m convinced.



what do you think will happen ? the turkish side say its comming to the final end but the south seem to want keep talking for ever!



andy

EricCrapton



Joined: 30/12/2010
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
19/01/2012 21:51

If Turkish side say it's coming to an end then it is. Then Turkish side will make TRNC officially part of Turkey (In name it's already Mersin) and the ROC can go whistle in the wind!

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3533

Message Posted:
19/01/2012 21:59

Msg 2,I wonder how the remaining T/Cs

will feel about that ?

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
19/01/2012 22:07

The remaining TCs will have a vote on any solution as was promised so lets wait and see.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3533

Message Posted:
19/01/2012 22:17

Msg 4, a serious question

will it only be TCs or will mainland people

also be allowed to vote?



A huge difference I believe

EricCrapton



Joined: 30/12/2010
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
19/01/2012 22:17

Msg 3



I have had many discussions with TC's over this very subject. They would not like it one bit but in the long run it will be for the better for everyone.

Ranger


Joined: 20/01/2012
Posts: 6

Message Posted:
20/01/2012 17:39

I do so hope that a solution will be finalised and to end the suffering of the Cypriot peoples, both Greek and Turkish Cypriots. It would be a travesty of justice if Cyprus is not reunited under one banner, then the unfortunate Turkish Cypriots will at last be recognised by the rest of the world. At the moment, without worldwide recognition of the self proclaimed TRNC the unfortunate Turkish Cypriot people are in effect stateless, that really is tragic. So come on then, get it sorted and let peace prevail on the beautiful island of Cyprus.

Ranger


Joined: 20/01/2012
Posts: 6

Message Posted:
20/01/2012 17:39

How is is fair that mainland people should be allowed to influence the will and future of Turkish Cypriots, by inclusion in voting? It is like England voting in the Scottish referendum on independence !!! Not on methinks.

Ranger


Joined: 20/01/2012
Posts: 6

Message Posted:
20/01/2012 18:30

No!!! The mainland must not be allowed to vote, it has nothing to do with them. It is like the English voting in the forthcoming Scottish independence vote !! Not on.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3533

Message Posted:
20/01/2012 18:33

Msg9, does anyone know if they will?

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
20/01/2012 23:26

Ranger , you are so out of order with the Scottish Referendum ! The Scottish people are 8% of the United Kingdom, The English are a majority in the United Kingdom and yet you are saying that THE ENGLISH should NOT be allowed to vote on SCOTTISH independence ? If we were allowed to vote ,and we should be then WE MIGHT JUST VOTE TO GIVE SCOTLAND INDEPENDENCE AND RID US OF THE BURDEN OF THE SCOTTISH SUBSIDY ! Personally I would not like this to happen but there are many English who would be only too happy to lesson our payments to the Scots.





Gerry

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
20/01/2012 23:55

Actualy it would be more akin to scotland or england or both saying in any UK referndum that only people born with UK citizenship can vote, anyone who gained it later is not allowed to vote. A ludicrous idea.

TRNC citizens will be the ones who vote on any TRNC referendum about the North's future. The RoC may have cause to complain about that, but TC have no grounds to complain about that. We, via our elected governments, granted them citizenship and thus they now have the same rights as any other TRNC citizen. There are not grades of citizenship, there is just one. You either are a citizen or you are not. We voted in the adminstrations that granted them citizenship.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3533

Message Posted:
21/01/2012 02:01

Thank you msg 12, for clarification

do the mainlanders out-number the TCs now?



officially?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
21/01/2012 09:11

The issue of how many mainlanders there are in the TRNC is an emotive one and a political one and there is a dearth of hard facts about it which creates a vacum ito which people pour thier own prejudices, agendas and perceptions.



For me personaly as far as mainlander TRNC citizens go, which is different from all mainlanders in the TRNC, and ignoring how you define such a category (is the child of mainlander TRNC citizens, a mainlander citizen or a 'true' cypriot for example) I personaly do not believe that mainlander citizens outnumber non mainlander citizens. There are many sources that would support this impression, but also just inference from logic indicates it as well. If mainlander TRNC citizens out numberd other citizens I would expect a numerical dominance of them in parilament, in minsiterial posts and as PM and president and I just do not see this dominace that would be the natural result if they did outnumber non mainlander citizens.

LaptaGeezer


Joined: 01/06/2010
Posts: 407

Message Posted:
21/01/2012 11:22

Birdman.... you are very right, I would think that the majority would like to lessen, or indeed stop completely, the payments made to Scotland, who then turn around and talk about independence. How can a country like Scotland ever hope to run itself financially without the handouts it gets from England? In short, it can't! We, then English, have to pay for things that are given to the Scottish for free... .how is that ever supposed to work?!

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
21/01/2012 12:26

Yes but the problem is if Scotland do get independence I will bet as much as you like that Westminster funds some sort of financial support package for god knows how long to prop it up.



So we will all pay anyway.

LaptaGeezer


Joined: 01/06/2010
Posts: 407

Message Posted:
21/01/2012 12:31

Unfortunately Turtle you are probably right with your comment! How they can call it independence when they would be being propped up by 'the enemy' is beyond me. If they want to go it alone... let them, but it has to be fully alone. All a big sham really and embarrassing for Scotland really.

marymary


Joined: 31/08/2010
Posts: 12

Message Posted:
21/01/2012 17:35

Having lived in Scotland they can have independance tomorrow as far as I am concerned. They never stop moaning about England and never see at their wefare dependency and failure of their own economy is self inflicted, failure to realse that the socialism, of which they are so proud is doomed! Let them go. As my ex used to say 'any nation where the men wear skrts has a problem!'.

aussiejock



Joined: 06/10/2010
Posts: 350

Message Posted:
22/01/2012 20:56

birdman message 11

A concern for Cameron

His government's austere programme of spending cuts is beginning to bite; the Scottish Nationalists are counting on them becoming even more unpopular as the referendum approaches.

If Salmond gets his way and the Scots vote for independence, the UK will lose 90 per cent of its oil and gas reserves in the North Sea and almost half its land mass.

Sir Malcolm Rifkind MP, who served as Britain's Defence and Foreign Secretary, said "I have no doubt that if Scotland became a separate state the perception would be that the UK was a much diminished country." ( from Al Jazeera )

What about all the Submarines, just out of Glasgow, you would have to pay for that lot to stay, as they need the deep water, and Glasgow now has the largest retail sector in Europe outstripping London. England is another basket case and this talk about Scotland's reliance on England is just not on , and message 18 it's not Skirts I find that quote quite offensive.





Rober

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
22/01/2012 21:05

If after independence England loses its oil & gas will Scotland pay England for the costs of bringing it to surface in the first place.



I also read somewhere that Scotland would have a 40% defecit from day one ? and thats with the oil & gas,........... who's going to fund that !

aussiejock



Joined: 06/10/2010
Posts: 350

Message Posted:
22/01/2012 21:31

another new oil project has been found in the North of Scotland the biggest field to be found, so we nationalize the oil industries get the Americans in, Scotland has some of the best Engineers in the world, that wouldn't be too much of a problem. I don't know where you read that Scotland would have a 40% deficit from day one, post it on here so I can read it, Scotland never suffered as bad from the recession as England, you all seem to have this mentality that we are still living in the sixties and seventies , Scotland is a vibrant country, it may be hard for a while but we do not need England now, we will make it on our own, England will still invest in Scotland because it's in their own interest, we do not have the population that England has, we will be ok when the time comes.





Robert

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3533

Message Posted:
22/01/2012 21:35

How did this thread go from a Cypriot problem

to a UK one?

or are the ex-pats not bothered about the talks ?

caldermeister


Joined: 22/01/2012
Posts: 1

Message Posted:
22/01/2012 21:46

and your tax for whisky will go through the roof too! get it up ye!

islandgirl


Joined: 12/09/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
22/01/2012 22:06

Scotland have been bleeding UK Ltd since the treaty of the union in 1700 and something or other, let them have their independence but make it a proper INDEPENDENCE and see how long it is before they are on their knees begging!

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
22/01/2012 22:29

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jun/22/new-study-undermines-economic-independence-scotland



A leading economist also states that oil & gas is only good for another 45 years what happens after that ?

very short sighted in my opinion.





Phil Bailey, you are correct,... a bit off topic but as the talks only started today I guess we will be back on topic tomorrow.

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
22/01/2012 23:34

http://famagusta-gazette.com/house-president-no-deadlines-or-arbitration-on-cyprus-p14259-69.htm



how can anyone let alone the turkish cypriot leadership come to an agreement when they are putting down markers like above?



if the UN and banki-moon dont make it known there is a strict time frame here they will still be meeting twice a week five years from now

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
22/01/2012 23:38

http://famagusta-gazette.com/archbishop-calls-for-removal-of-cyprus-envoy-downer-p14263-69.htm



and this guy is a nob head !

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3533

Message Posted:
22/01/2012 23:51

I think Knob head is what you meant

Msg 27

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
23/01/2012 00:52

Andy,. I was always told not to trust a man with a beard.....

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
23/01/2012 17:40

turtle . . especialiy one whos a greek with a beard !

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
23/01/2012 22:23

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-269398-cyprus-talks-commence-in-ny-hopes-dim-for-reunification.html



indications the UN will throw in the towel !



now we getting somewhere. .



andy

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
23/01/2012 23:21

philbailey message 22:



if the two sides could agree on the exact nature of the "Cypriot problem"

then we are in sight of a "solution"...whatever that may mean of course



this ex-pat is "not bothered about the talks" because their significance is

grotesquely overestimated by the punters most of the time on cyprus 44



philbailey message 28: I prefer the expression "dick head" because it can

suggest a lower level of intelligence rather than a mere physical attribute

canavar


Joined: 09/12/2009
Posts: 30

Message Posted:
24/01/2012 18:03

I fear that if it came to a vote it would be like the Hatay situation back whenever it was. I fear that there are sufficient turks with TRNC citizenship to sway the vote their way, this would also include those cypriots who themselves prefer the turkish solution to the cypriot one.



With regard to Erolz's comments, I am of a different opinion, I think the reason why you do not see so many of them in position of influence is because those who have settled in TRNC are in the main the uneducated lower class turks.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
25/01/2012 10:13

canavar message 33:



you quite reasonably contrast turkish solutions and cypriot ones...



without disputing your overall views, as negociating partners, and reading between the lines,

the greek cypriot community see very little need for two autonomous zones ...for all the cant



they have at least from their point of view a strong case for this position and many of the

original community of north cyprus would probably go along with it



but whether or not turkey's attitude really hammers nails into their coffin of 52 years of

european dreams, it seems the compromise solution was effectively buried in 2004 when

the south said "no" to one and perhaps even all ideas of a compromise



it is for this reason I feel the current talks are largely irrelevant, unpalatable though this

appears to be for many ex-pat contributors to this forum over these last few years