Positive Action on Housing

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 15:25

I was disappointed at the turn out at Pia Bella on Wednesday as were several of the regulars I have spoken to.



I was going to put to the floor a question on taking positive action but had to leave before the close. Unfortunaley did go on because a lot of new people had turned up to talk to Marian. Probably like a lot of us at first a bit of courage is required and that was a good place to start.



We know taking to the streets to protest is illegal for foriegners.



However what does the team think about taking this sort of action? Builders, estate agents, Avocats etc are doing plenty of illegal things against us!!!!!



Passed this around friends already and no difficulties pointed out, except the obvious. A slow drive from Central Girne to PM Office in Girne. Link that with a petition, on line or otherwise to be handed in at that point.



Then either get heavily intoxicated at our success or more likely the slow drive back.



Comments please.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 15:26

Just to add. This is nothing to do with HBPG. This is a personal posting. But I am sure the team would be interested in comments.

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 16:42

Whilst i would support any way i can but as we know taking to the streets to protest is illegal for foriegners surely there is some other way , breaking the law i am very nervy about , sorry if i appear to be non helpful but im truly willing to help !!!!

johnnybgoode


Joined: 08/12/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 20:42

i don't think it will make much difference, at all, because as soon as you start to make noise here, there will always be somebody else to knock you back down.

weather its builders, lawyers, or the current government, builders, lawyers, sorry did i say builders/ lawyers twice, that probably because iv'e been conned twice by both and they got away with it.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 21:19

So, all I can gather so far is that nobody is prepared to tackle the issues head on.



Apathy ruled at the HBPG meeting last week when several of us "commoners" were expecting a couple of hundred to turn out.



Every day around the forums there are people moaning over varying issues regarding home purchase. Issues such as "theft" by builders and avocats. Estate agents giving false info. The list is endless.



I liken this to the days many years ago with union activities. Day after day you got whinging and moaning from staff but when you asked them to take formal action it was always I cannot be bothered with all that stuff!!!! Next week, Yak, Yak, Yak again!!!!!!!!!!



I feel sorry for Marian and her team trying to get things done but get little support from those that want their help.



Personally do not care about many who continually post around the forums, but I do care about those with real problems.



So please give me some feed back even if it is as above - YAK, YAK, YAK

augusta



Joined: 10/06/2008
Posts: 173

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 01:19

I don't think you need to feel sorry for Marian.....she is a lady who is here and who will continue to work toward a fair and legal system for foreign investors and residents.

I did not know that it is illegal for foreigners to demonstrate. Interesting.

Even more interesting is the fact that the meetings at the HBPG represent a legal opportunity to acknowledge the current issues, support the work to find solutions and voice you own concerns.

MUCH concern has been written in this forum before the recent HBPG meeting which appealed to people to be present at the meeting.

So I ask WERE YOU PRESENT?

sassycypgirl


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 07:22

I ws at the meeting and I understand where Marian is coming from.



My problems we hope (fingers crossed) are comng to an end but I feel

very sorry for those people who shared their issues with us.



Trying to find out information etc is a nightmare. I have lived here two years

and have found out as much as possible for myself and the other buyers, You

are constantly told lies, but if you keep digging you eventually find out what

why etc. You need to stand together and support each other. Its notgood relying on others.



When you live in the Uk/elsewhere it is very difficult but you still need to work

together with the other buyers to keep pushing forward.



The turnout was poor but you have to take factors into account. A lot of people have gone to UK for xmas others who attended the last meeting

dont live here.



The message is clear you have to fight for your rights. You can not expect

everyone else to do it for you.



Well done Marian



Sassy

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 07:47

As a first step anybody with unwarranted delays i.e. well beyond contracted completion date, all the way through to issues of builders gone AWOL should register there complaints with the Property Complaints Commission and then register it with the HBPG so that... nobody can deny the level of problematic property purchases here...

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 08:24

message 6.



My first response was to ignore you final comment.



Second was a rude remark **** ***. This is why I am now so annoyed with people who will not help themselves and fight.



pipie, e-mail me if you have not contacted HBPG direct and I will try to point you in right direction.

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 09:07

cyprusishome . Thankyou i will E-mail but you have started a very good thread here and there is such knowledge that post , so let us see what else we can do to support HBPG , we have to take on board that there were less at the meeting , but it could be the fact that this time of the year property owners are in there own country it would be interesting to find out exactly how many buyers do have problems , the other factor could be that people do not know about the HBPG , so what about a campaign promoting the HBPG, let us all have a think and see what we can come up with .

stevemac


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 10:46

Yes the turn out at the meeting was rubbish. Out for about 14,000 purchasers here there were probably 100 people. I'm not sure whether it's apathy, stick your head in the sand mentality, this won't happen to me mentality or plain selfishness. Here's a newsflash: if you've bought here and you have no deeds, or your land is mortgaged, or your builders done a runner then it has happened already!

Why should the HBPG give up their time for free to help people and campaign for all of us if no one is prepared to stand up as a group and work together? Let's take the recent petition to change the specific performance law (which will improve things for EVERYONE) again out of 14,000 buyers there were about 1100 names. Selfishness again. Ismet and Sibel worked very hard campagning for that and people couldn't be bothered.

stevemac


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 10:51

I think we should organize a mass peaceful protest. So what if it's illegal for foreigners to protest.

Think of all the things that have been done to us:

Lawyers didn't tell us we couldn't get our deeds or that peoplpe could mortgage the properties we've paid for before we bought.

Builders fraudulently deceived us by signoing contracts they had no intention of fulfilling.

Builders stole our properties we paid for by mortgaging them.

Builders did a runner with our money and didn't finish them.

Think how good it would look in the local and international press if people were arrested for protesting that they haven't got their deeds or their land has been mortgaged and stolen from them or their house hasn't been finished even though they've paid for it. They won't arrest anyone! The last the time HBPG were arranging a protest it resulted in the PCO being set up. OK, so they have no legal clout to do anything, but it spurred the government in to action. So maybe it will again.

stevemac


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 10:52

So who is prepared to stop whinging and take action as a group?

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 11:17

Maybe we should start promoting the HBPG , FORUMS and specific performance law this would inform even more people what is available to help property purchasers . We have to take on board that there are people out there that are not aware this info exists , i do think one of the ways to go is big pages in the newspapers and flyers/leaflets at the airport , just a few ideas ?

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 11:32

pipie,



I believe that all that has been done in various ways. The only people that would read leaflets etc are US!!



Do not forget, a lot of the issues raised effect Cypriots as well. They have to do the same paper chases, the same hassles at offices etc. So we have to try to gain their support in same way.



Interested on VO forum where stevemac has made similar post, our esteemed Oracle, Ismet is looking into the legallity of positvie action. He asked the question "who says it is illegal for foreigners to protest"? Will await the answer if he can find something.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 12:18

augusta: "I did not know that it is illegal for foreigners to demonstrate. Interesting."



I don't think the Turkish authorities would deny for a second about being a racist administration. It's how the place was founded.

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 12:56

cyprusishome , yes i take your point , but to be honest we have a private forum where there are 4 developments who can access this private forum and only a handful appear to know about the HBPG . I myself have only learnt about HBPG ( we purchased off plan in 2005 )

through this forum and the villa forum and this has only been in the last year . I feel sure having another go at making people aware is the way to go , the other thing to rememeber is that problems seem to occur in the final stages of purchase meaning there are a lot of buildings that have not yet got to the finished problem stage HENCE there will a strong possibility of more unhappy purchasers on the arisen so to speak . Hope this makes sense all .

stevemac


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 13:06

Further to my message 11 about the specific performanc petition. I would like to point out that both Ismet and Sibel are Turkish Cypriot and they are spending their time helping us Brits. What are the Brits doing? Nothing except moaning.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 13:23

I was also at the meeting although I do not have problems myself I can understand the problems that others are having. I went with friends who have had and still have problems. They have been proactive and again are people that will think nothing of helping others in the same boat. The meeting was all about getting off your a**e and getting involved in whatever way you can and not letting the few that are proactive take the load. Even those in the UK can take an active involvement. If there is anything I can do to help then I will.

AJ

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 16:29

pipie



Pleased you are up and running there. Have friends who have there own group but one of the main problems there is people going against advice and handing over more money with consulting back to the group. Then find that once again they have been ripped off.



msg 18, an excellent point, Cypriot people are involved as I said ealier. Ismet is a particular friend of all the forums and will always try to find an answer to any sensible question regarding legal issues.



AJ,



I started this off to try to get some opinions. At the end of the day any protest will go better with HBPG at the forefront so maybe if we can convince more people we can then pass back, although the team there do read the forum of course.



I think so far we have the start of a march/drive whatever but need lots more positivity to even get involved in organising. I would think by mid January there will be no excuses of "oh they must be in England" etc There are enough here permanantly to make a big noise

Quarmby


Joined: 15/09/2008
Posts: 975

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 17:07

Was it not the threat of a mass demonstration in the past that stirred the government to come up with the toothless tiger, the PCO. Perhaps another mass demonstration may make them stir again or does anyone really think they are really interested in trying to solve the problems of those pain in the a..e foreigners?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 17:17

Quarmby,



The Turkish authorities are aware of the British fixation with petitions, pressure groups etc. Since thay have absolutely no respect or regard for this kind of activity, they invent some worthless response which will shut people up for another year or so while things just chug along as normal. The money has been made from the expats and spirited off the island. They don't give two hoots, as expats don't have the vote nor any rights worth speaking of. It's a lawless and corrupt place where the law of the jungle applies.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 17:26

PP,

A very bold and brash statement. Not at all sure how you can substantiate the authorities stance towards foreigners.



The TRNC has shown significant adancment and growth. It remains as the region of the Island with the most potential for further growth and prosperity.



Yes, there certainly are problems but without doubt its potential will come to fruition. Those of us there now are better placed to benefit, all be it with some uncertainty at the moment.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 17:34

waz,



I base what I say on years of experience in Cyprus and particularly what happens in the Turkish-occupied north. Those in charge are third-rate amateurs unfit to run a parish council. All the major decisions are made by Turkey, hence the dependancy culture, begging bowl mentality and lack of initiative and work ethic in much of the public sector. I don't disagree with all you say, but potential isn't quite the same as reality in this racist and corrupt utopia.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 17:43

PP

Hardly Utopia, We should be thankfull that TRNC is a democracy and things can and will change. Hopefully for the better.



I have no doubt of your experience and your will to see change. It is without doubt that many contributors on this forum have similar aspirations towards change nd improvment in authority.



By view is that change is and will continue to happen. There is clearly an increasing momentum for change.

johnnybgoode


Joined: 08/12/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 20:22

perhaps more adverts in all the english worded papers { local } when meeting are being held, could help rally people around, i agree with a lot of what ptepike say's, and with alot of what others are saying, but will anybody realy take any notice of this, this has been happening in the valencia region of spain for over 30 years now and the british still buy there,{ 1.2 million brits currently own property there } { myself included and when they bulldoze your house to the ground nothing happens,} as long as someone's prepared to take illegal back handers, then this will keep on happening, only when our plight is in the british press, and onlythe will people take notice.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 20:34

It was on the front page of Cyprus Today, what more do people need.



This will never make the British papers cos the RoC have got there first with all the thieving etc going on there!!!!!!!



HBPG have their own web site which most people buying here should know about. Only takes a minute to look.



All very well saying "will anybody take notice", if we do not try we will never know.



In the mean time there is chance that a group of I believe close to 100 homes will be repossed because a builder took a mortgage on land and did a runner. The banks expect the house owners to pay the interest. This I understand amouts to a figure around £50,000 per house hold now. OK that is what I heard on grapevine may be even more. now.



So shall we all sit and do nothing, will you stand by and see these people thrown out of their houses?

BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 21:13

The dodgy developers,estate agents,lawyers they have one thing in common that they love and cant get enough of money. If you want to make changes and stop this unscrupulous behaviour you need to take away what they love most.Money.If youve had a bad experience with your developer,lawyer,estate agent please be brave enough to name and shame them but make sure you have documented evidence to document your claim.|If someone does name and shame and youve also had problems with this person please be brave enough to back them up and name and shame yourself.They cant take us all to court and the only way for things to change is if people know whats going on.Hopefully next year we will be able to gather what banks are giving out mortgages on land/property thats already been bought by contract or paid for and people can post it on here as some people have already been doing so and we can all take our money out of these banks in protest.