Efforts of the HBPG - the Ramblers opinon

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 19:48

Please find below a letter from"The Rambler" a member of the HBPG.

Sibel





"The Rambler

Demoralised and Disgusted



First I would like to thank the people who attended the HBPG meeting, especially the people who attended that had no problems but were there to show their support only. I, as an active member would offer my apologies for the complete lack of support by the thousands of people who have registered their problems with the HBPG, but who could not be bothered to attend.



To those who did not attend, the HBPG has worked hard on your behalf; the active members have stuck their necks out for you, we have been threatened many times over the last 3 years.



So what has the HBPG achieved?

• Firstly it has brought thousand of victims together to show that they are not alone and to offer support.

• We have put pressure on the Government who produced the Estate Agents Law and Government Property Information Office.

• We have gained correct information from the Government

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 19:49

• We were the main instigators, who got thousands of buyers an amnesty so you only had to pay .05% contract tax instead of 1.50%, saving you thousands.

• We got you an amnesty on registering your contracts to try and safeguard your properties.

• We have given literally thousand of buyer’s free advice.

• We have exposed the advocates, estate agents and builders who have cheated, deceived, blackmailed and repeatedly broken the laws of the TRNC.

• Marian, along with other active members have attended meetings with the Prime Minister, Interior Minister, Attorney General, the Chief Justice and the Army amongst others to try and get some justice for you, yes it is a long road but we keep trying.



Since February 2008 we have held surgeries every Tuesday at the Pia Bella Hotel, giving up our time to help you, we have advised, supplied information, tried to help in any way we can and sometimes just listened to give you support.



The papers say 100 attended this emergency meeting, the

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 19:50

The papers say 100 attended this emergency meeting, the BB say 50, the reality was between 70 and 80, which should have been hundreds if not thousands.



There is a good chance that soon the Banks will call in their loans on mortgages, if the builder does not pay. We believe that approximately 250 people could get a knock on their door from the police and a bailiff and you will be handed an eviction notice. The banks have a legal right to do this. So there you are no house, nowhere to put your belongings and then of course you will be kicked off the island because you can’t support yourself.



Scaremongering you might say, well the HBPG know better. That’s why we called for this meeting and your support, only a handful with mortgages, memorandums or injunctions on their property attended the meeting.



We agreed at the meeting to block the roads if an eviction takes place, I have to wonder if you are worth the trouble it could place the hardworking volunteers of the HBPG in?

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 19:50

What did the HBPG ask of you, we asked you to take 2 hours of your time to attend a meeting to show your support?



I am fully aware that this letter will upset some, but it needed to be said, I looked and talked to my fellow active members, words (apart from those in the title) cannot describe how we feel."

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 19:56

Kibrissibel. Here here! Very well put. An excellent post for people to take note. However you must understand that there are hundreds if not thousands if owners who do not live in the trnc and it us very difficult fir some people to get over there to attend a meeting despite the fact that it was clearly an important meeting.

Although I have never had the need to use HBPG I know that you all do a marvellous job. Well done to all of you.

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 20:01

Kibrissibel,

May i say i salute your passion towards something you obviously feel strongly about. Me and a friend have four properties that we rent out in the trnc but live in the uk. Is their anything we can do from the uk that may help and do you guys have a website?

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 20:04

msg 5,



You also got to understand that there are probably several thopusand who live here permanently.



Please stop making excuses.

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 20:07

Kibrissibel .

As we live in the UK we could not attend , however you and the HBPG have our sound support , if there is anything we can do just ask .

When we saw our solicitor/advocate in September he said exactly the same thing that next year would be a terrible time for builders who would be made bankrupt , and yes we all need to be concerned as some of us will definatly lose our properties , we all need to take this so seriously . Some of us will need to take on board that this time next year we could have lost our homes in the TRNC . We all need to listen to this wake up call and do something

now , before it is to late for some of us .



http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/petitioncyprus/index.html

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 20:17

blackpoolfan - I would in no way detract from the HBPG and all the help they have given to thousands of people since their inception, but I couldn't help but remember your postings of 3 December, announcing what a marvellous place TRNC is for investment. Quite a few people commented on them and you disappeared off the board. The people who the HBPG help are as risk of losing lots of money (in some cases people already have). In my humble opinion, it does seem a little hypocritical of you to offer your help. You apparently know very little about the HBPG if you have to ask whether they have a web site!

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 20:26

Sibel,



You have seen my views. I know I have gone at it like a bull in a china shop but if it makes another couple think instead of sitting at home hoping all the nasties will go away. I know some do not like being "shouted" at in this way but so what.



I have heard about the mortage situation and the potential evictions, if it happens I will drag people there kicking and screaming if I have to. There are people who seem to think "it will never happen" or that "we will just wait and see". GGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR



As for the positive action, may be after Christmas I can come and give some feedback from the plebs and see if we can help HBPG become really active before too many people loose their homes.



Back to the article, excellent. Have you posted around all the forums to kick **** across the country.?

johnnybgoode


Joined: 08/12/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 20:32

have tried signing the petition twice , but it comes back saying that theiformation given has already been given, very perterbed about this.

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 20:40

the-wicks

FIRSTLY, i stand by the fact that the trnc is a good investment and the risk of losing money to bent builders and solicitors is a problem in other places around the world apart from the trnc and is not relevant to the investment potential of the trnc, but is still a risk buyers either decide to take or not.

SECONDLY, i have not disapeared off the board i have posted a dozen messages since then and chose to post questions or reply to questions that are of interest to me.

THIRDLY, i only became aware of the HBPG having read the message boards, yes i knew nothing of their work which is why i asked the question.

FINALLY, i take offence at your patronising comments you should be aware of the facts before shooting off your mouth to ASSUME makes an ASS out of U and ME. Try to be constuctive in your comments and show respect little man. I visit the trnc four times a year perhaps we could meet up and talk some more.





This post has been edited by AJ as it does not conform to the 'Be Polite' rule.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 20:46

Mess7. I'm making excuses for the people that are here in the UK. Vent your anger at those people you live with in the trnc who shamelessly failed to appear!

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 21:19

I attended the meeting on Wednesday, the first HBPG meeting I have been to. I too was surprised at the low turn-out as I expected it to be packed. I am in the situation whereby my landowner has taken out a mortgage and has not paid back a penny and is unlikely to unless he can sell a villa on our site which he is unlikely to be able to do due to the mortgage. I found it helpful to hear other people's experiences and came away realising that I really need to find out more information regarding my specific circumstances and for that I am very grateful. However, I am not altogether sure what it is you want me to do in a wider sense. Marching down the streets with a banner naming and shaming my builder is not something I have any desire to do. I have always tried hard to maintain a respectful relationship with my builder and he has responded in the same way. Quite different to some of my neighbours I might add who have chosen to threaten and humiliate him instead. Continued ...

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 21:20

AJ,

Appologies for breaching the "Be Polite Rule" but i stand by my comments re message number 9. I dont feel it is appropriate for people to post patronising and comments that i find offensive either it works both ways.

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 21:23

I am still trying to get me head around what may happen in the future and I am trying to maintain communication with the builder to see how we can resolve things between us. If I can be of help to anyone through offering advice (as I try to do here) or any other kind of support then I am more than willing to do so. I bought in 2004 and have lived here now permanently for 18 months so hopefully I am aware of how things work here. Please feel free to contact me if I can do anything to help.



Jo



PS the landowner and builder are two different people but a bit too complicated to explain fully here

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 21:34

Blackpoolfan

I am a great believer in free speech and what some people find as patronizing others do not and it is a personal thing, my only concern is that of derogatory name calling and as educated adults we do not need to do it.

Hope you understand.

Take care

AJ (leaving himself wide open to the anti-mod brigade)

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 21:40

blackpoolfan. When I said you disappeared from the board,I was referring to the fac that your posts about Blossom Properties seemed to have gone very quiet. You know, as well as I do, that quite a few people questioned your posts, e.g. "You can buy as many properties in TRNC as you like - family, mates down the pub, etc." and quite a few people mentioned the fact that people who have purchased in the TRNC have yet to sleep in their own beds. I apologise if you found my tone patronising. I find your "ASSUME MAKES AN ASS, etc. juvenile and demeaning - my son worked briefly in the car trade and left because the whole business was centred around this ridiculous type of jargon. I also find your use of "show some respect man" insulting. Where do you think you are - in the "hood". I note from your profile that you are a Social Worker.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 21:41

No1

I totally agree with you and I think that the 'Ostriches' in the TRNC should get their heads out of the sand PDQ but what can be done about mobilizing all those in the UK that have property interest's in the TRNC?

AJ

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 21:43

Message 12 - AJ - I have, obviously, no idea of what was edited, but thanks.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 21:48

AJ, we only come over twice a year for a couple of weeks at a time - my family and friend, who own property in trnc, do the same. Obviously we would do whatever we can to help with our support. I really don't know the answer. There are a huge number of intelligent people on this forum, surely we can think up something between us.

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 21:56

Bill, we are in a similar situation as you. We have a holiday home, which we get out to as often as possible, but unfortunately works tends to get in the way! We agree - there must be something we can do to contribute. Any ideas - would be pleased to hear them. Do you think, if possible, given dates, etc. that we could meet up at some time? Please feel free to e-mail off board if you think it's viable. If we don't hear from you, then we will know you think we're a couple of plonkers! LOL

J & P

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 22:06

P & J, will contact you on Monday. I'm on an iPhone this week-end.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 22:08

I do not think there is a lot you can do when living in UK except offer 100% support which I know No1 you do.



I have stated my experiences from union activities that apathy rules, so what would you suggest to get the people out.



I also note what Jo has said. One thing for sure you must keep builder and landowner on your side, that is voice of experience. You turning out at Pia Bella was a positive move what needs to be done is get the rest out. Going on demos etc is not the awful thing that many anticipate it is usually a bit of fun and where you can meet like minded and equally problemed people. If there is a need for a mass turn out I would be more than happy to come along with you. Can you imagine what would happen if the police moved in to the people affected in Sibel's mailing and what effect it would have on their spirits if a couple of hundred people marched up the road and blocked it.

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 22:18

The-Wicks

Disappeared from the board how did i know you meant the blossom properties post. Im not in the "hood" as the word "little" was inserted between respect and man. It is not for you to question my ability and be critical or hypocritical of my postings or comments, and yes i am a social worker but sorry dont get the relevance or do i detect sarcasm in your remark. Anyway please feel free to question my comments and add your opinions to which you are perfectly entitled to do, debate is always healthy when opinions are respected.

I trust this is the end of the matter and wish you a pleasant evening.

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 22:25

blackpool fan - you are right - let's draw a line under this and I, too, wish you a very pleasant evening.

Regards

J

sassycypgirl


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 22:36

Jo



I too attend the meeting although we had to leave early.



We were in the same situation as you but the purchaser of the last villa

on our site of 6 had the foresight to instruct his solicitor to pay the purchase

price to the bank and that has paid off the mortgage. My solicitor was also involved in this. We had already registered and so he could not remortgage.



Our builder is not a bad guy I just think that he has got in over his head and is

now trying to sort things out. Perhaps a word with your builder and the estate agents he may sell through could help. If a perspective purchaser is informed

about the situation and the possible outcome they may be more willing to go ahead and bu using this method.



Always try and keep on friendly terms with your builder.



Keeping my fingers crossed for everyone who has problems.

Sassy

britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 3039

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 22:54

It never, ever goes in your favour to shout, scream or generaly loose your temper with the builder, yes privately you want to strangle them, but if you did this then your property would never get finished and you would end up in Jail.

We are on an estate of 9 villas, it's taken 41/2 years to finish our "holiday home" and we still don't have a path to the property.

Wev'e been through the usual, only doing work whilst your their, not answering the phone or email once you return home.

We have all been angry, probably angrier than we can ever be with anyone in our lives.

So being angry with each other will not help.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 23:14

All I can say is TC's/T are proud people whether they are builders or car mechanics or plumbers or electricians or whatever. Treat them with respect, get to know them as friends don't wage wars with them. Work with them rather than against them. Unfortunately for most expats this is all unchartered territory and I can understand why there is a lot of animosity. But you have to understand the culture.

AJ

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 23:15

I have no idea just how many affected people live permanently in the TRNC. How many of those access these BB's? I would have guessed that the majority of those affected i.e. still awaiting completion of their home in NC still live in the UK. How many of them would be in North Cyprus in December?

If I was in North Cyprus or could have got their then of course I would have been at the meeting and I bet so would the majority of others given the chance.

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 23:24

Thanks sassycypgirl unfortunately we also have a problem with being on builders electric although we are in negotiation with Kib-tec over that it doesn't help sell the remaining house. There has been interest but unfortunately one of the neighbours put the kybosh on that to be awkward (before they realised about the mortgage). That particular deal was on the basis of the funds going direct to the bank to pay towards the mortgage and the builder is desperate to get it sorted because he is jointly liable but did not benefit from the loan.



Ho hum, the more I try and explain it the more complicated it sounds! We will keep plodding on but the moral of my story is that the owners of the 10 properties on my site cannot agree with each other and some people aren't talking to others etc so it just shows how difficult it is to get people to take positive action.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 23:35

joandjelly

It is sad to think that the people on your site cannot get together to get things sorted. Unfortunately this is a Brit mentality everyone knows better than anyone else.

Good luck and I think with some of your neighbours you will need it.

Take care

AJ

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 23:43

Hector



First of all, how can you fairly comment when you do not say where you live, either UK or TRNC.



Second there are still several thousand people in TRNC. Permanenet residents rarley return to UK. If there had been a couple of hundred at the meeting last week I do not think there would be any issue. But a proprtion of maybe 5% or less turning up is totally soul destroying.



AJ keeps saying the same thing - the British mentallity. I hope that one day some of these people need help and Marian and her small team say f*** Off, you never came to us when we needed your help.



That will never happen cos they are good people but right now they need help to move forwards. So like jo above, get your problems to the forefront and push hard for some sort of resolution by whatever means that it takes.

Steve1953



Joined: 04/12/2008
Posts: 298

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 01:27

Dear the-wicks,sorry about your experience,it sounds painful which is what the blackpoolfan is experiencing - and not just watching the football. It appears that buying off plan may be at the root of the problem. Builders promise the earth and fail to deliver.

I'm not familiar with the HBPG network,but I assume that it deals with new builds in most cases. I think I would opt for resales;which may not help you,but it could be a lesson for future.

Met John(greenman on this site),a couple of weeks ago at Pia Bella who was suing Nokta - maybe check with him.Could be worse,40 years ago,my parents used to take us to a bungalow on the cliffs at Happisburg ...Stuart Hilliard is a nice chap and may shake things up,but builders such as Santa Fe construction should be more transparent with their information - anybody got any info on recent developments on this firm?I 've noticed that many comments appear to reflect Spain 30 years ago...hope things work out in a constructive way,regards,Steve

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 09:51

Probably one of the best postings on this board - well done Kibris Sibel....



I was there, by the way !



It makes me laugh at the average British purchacer's total ignorance of the mess we are in....



Chosing to start posts like "what's your favorite film or what did you think of the match last night"



They need a good shake, in my opinion.





Nick

kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 10:02

what about a uk meeting ,even bringing over M.S and crew .



so to show support we prebook venue ,agenda etc and pay for room and extra for flight?.



Then agree what action and maybe even have a bit of a march on the TRNC offices in London .



kav ,should have no excuses with numbers then

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 10:13

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/petitioncyprus/index.html



Good idea kavenkoy , prehaps if you started a new thread you could get an idea on how many people are wiilling to attend

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 10:44

Steve 1953 - message 34 - many thanks for your good wishes, but actually, apart from the fact that we are still waiting for our kocan, our apartment came in on schedule with very little snagging, which was done without question, so we consider ourselves lucky. What I was actually referring to was a topic discussed on this board earlier in December. I was really pointing out the fact that many, many people had been very unlucky.

Again, thanks for your comments.

J

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 10:56

Hi Pipie,



Good idea, put my name down.



I agree with the majority of what has been said on this thread and if I had been in the TRNC I would have definitely gone to the meeting. Unfortunately there is a lot of apathy among the British, with a we can't change anything attitude. I know because I have first hand experience of it on our site, which has a very hefty mortgage on it.



The Butler

Tatlisu4me


Joined: 26/01/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 11:20

CIH said



Hector



First of all, how can you fairly comment when you do not say where you live, either UK or TRNC.



Hector had stated

If I was in North Cyprus or could have got their then of course I would have been at the meeting and I bet so would the majority of others given the chance.



Seems to me Hector lives in the UK

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 11:35

johnnybgoode, re message 11

It appears to be a peculiarity of the on-line petition site that the first time you enter your details it actually works, although it appears not to!

The second time you try, it quite correctly tells you that you've already done it.

Re-visit the site, and click on the link to view all of the names, you will find yours there, at no 1217 in the list!

Anyone else, after entering your details just once, view the list of names, and you will be there at the top - if you're quick enough, that is!

Keith.

brandy sour


Joined: 09/04/2008
Posts: 310

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 12:15

Message 33 and 40 on hectors members information says he is in UK so it is the case of having a look before you have a go.

Tatlisu4me


Joined: 26/01/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 12:23

Yes that is what I looked at BS

Corinium


Joined: 23/03/2008
Posts: 58

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 12:35

Having read the earlier posts, first may I thank Marian and all the members of the HBPG for all their efforts. Please be aware that I along with many other homeowners would love to have attended the meeting but finance and work comittments made it impossible to just 'pop over' for a meeting.



But, as has been mentioned on earlier posts there are many people back here in the UK who are more than willing to help in any way.



A meeting here in the UK would be a great idea.



We can't just continue burying our heads in the sand hoping this problem will go away.



Those of us who have discovered that the builders have taken out mortgages on our property have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong, yet we stand to lose everything. The banks must be at fault surely for granting loans on plots already sold by these builders.



Come on everyone, we cant just sit back and slowly watch our properties be snatched away one by one.

Tatlisu4me


Joined: 26/01/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 13:00

What about Birmingham or Manchester as a central location meeting venue ?

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 13:01

The first post was the Ramblers opnion. This is mine:

As a Turkish Cypriot whose family fought for the rights and protection of the Turkish Cypriot people and the independence of TRNC, I am saddened by what is happening to myself and foreign buyers alike. Hundreds of buyers are now at risk of losing their homes because the land owner has taken out mortgages which they cannot or will not repay, and banks are now likely to foreclose and auction the land. Banks have knowingly granted excessive mortgages on land which they knew was subject to contracts of sale, and even without the current global economic crisis, how did they realistically expect the mortgagees to pay this back? This is negligence at the least. And land owners who signed contracts stating they would keep the land mortgage free and would transfer the title deeds are not only in breach of contract, but are also guilty of false pretences, false statements and fraud in my opinion. cont...

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 13:02

I would ask that the government imagine themselves in the place of buyers for just 5 minutes and see how they would feel at the prospect of losing their homes and life savings. I would invite them to attend the weekly HBPG surgeries and see for themselves the devastation being suffered by property buyers here.



I love North Cyprus with a passion and believe it has unique qualities and great potential which could enable it to ride out the global economic crises, but not unless immediate and constructive action is taken once and for all. The two main contributors to the economy are the construction industry and tourism, and the two go hand in hand. I believe the changes needed are not that difficult to implement. Foreign buyers are handicapped by needing PTP, which needs to be reduced to a reasonable time limit i.e. 30 days and should be granted to the person not the property. Cont...

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 13:03

This would mean foreign buyers can receive transfer of title immediately upon signing of contracts. The Specific Performance Law needs to be repealed so buyers can sue for transfer of titles under S76 of Contract Law with no restrictions. Vendors should be forced to adhere to the terms of the contracts they signed with strict penalties imposed on those who don’t. Buyers should be able to pay their KDV direct to the tax office and call for transfer of title. The tax office could then chase the vendors for their capital gains tax. After all it’s not the buyers fault if the vendors refuse to pay their taxes. There are millions of pounds in KDV payments that buyers would willingly pay if they were guaranteed their title deeds. Tighter civil rules procedures need to be introduced so that litigation against vendors doesn’t drag on for years with adjournment after adjournment, and strict penalties and sanctions imposed on parties who don’t comply. Cont...

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 13:03

Strict ethical and professional guidelines should be imposed on lawyers who should be made accountable for their actions. Most buyers would not be in their current situation if these had been in place prior to purchasing. The existing laws need to be strictly enforced. The leaders of the Contractors Union and Estate Agents Union should be completely independent with no financial interests in the sectors that they are head of. This is a conflict of interest and impartiality. The answer would be to have a central body like the PIO but with legal backing to take action against offenders and ensure procedures are followed. Cont...

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 13:05

In my eyes the suffering and desperation that both Turkish Cypriot and foreign buyers are going through is not dissimilar to the suffering the Turkish Cypriots faced at the hands of the Greek Cypriots: buyers are being denied their right to their properties, being treated as second class citizens and having their rights to fairness and accountability for crimes imposed upon them taken away. Is history repeating itself? Only collectively can we make positive and constructive changes and ensure the economy of TRNC lives on. I urge the government and the others sectors involved in the construction industry to turn this around now before we lose the very rights that we fought for. Cont...

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 13:06

There are many TC’s who feel that what is happening to buyers here is wrong and there are many TC’s who are willing to help people. These are the people who realize that the actions of the unscrupulous minority are dragging down the name of the TRNC and its economy with it. These are the people who realize that soon there will be nothing and no one left to exploit in the TRNC. These are the people who are long-sighted and can see that nothing lasts forever; that the good times had by the bad people will soon be over because the truth can’t be hidden forever. Information is knowledge and knowledge is power. Once the truth is out there people can’t be deceived and lied to, blackmailed, threatened, defrauded. But the only reason why evil and greed prosper is because good people allow it to by doing nothing. Cont...

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 13:07

It would be interesting to gauge how many people are willing to get involved in a peaceful protest. The last threat of a demonstration resulted in the PCO (PIO) being set up. Whilst this dept has no legal backing, it is still very important for anyone with a property problem to register a complaint because if there are only a few hundred complaints, the government can turn round and say, “Property problem? What property problem?” Regardless of whether your complaint is solved, it is an official registration of the problems which exist here; a starting point to help take things forward.



If anyone has information about which banks have granted mortgages on land which is subject to contract of sales etc please inform the HBPG so we can compile the information. Cont...

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 13:07

The link to the HBPG website is here for people who don’t know it: http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/ The link to the Specific Performance Law is here: http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/SPlaw_petition.html further info about the SPLaw can be found on TRNC Villa Owners and Cyprus44 if you search under this title.



Sibel



“If you’re going through Hell, keep going” (Winston Churchill)

“It always seems impossible until it’s done.” (Nelson Mandela.)

“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” (Edward Burke)

“It’ll be OK in the end, if it’s not OK, then it’s not the end.” (Me!)

slimboyfat


Joined: 01/05/2008
Posts: 96

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 13:25

Thanks to the likes of Pike and Suzzanne I rarely come on the BB now. I knew nothing about this meeting and I looked on the Northern Cyprus Forum (my choice now) and found nothing about it.

Perhaps any announcements need a bit more publicity.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 13:26

It is very clear that very man foreign buyers and owners are not aware of the pending melt down of circulating mortgage finance.



There is clearly a significant decline in equitable values of unfinnished properties. It would not be sensible or financially beneficial fo any bank to call in any charge at this moment particularly on unfinnished property.



A possible saving scenario, if you are in a position that a builder has taken mortgage, has insuficient funds to meet contractual obligations and you, the buyer is in the middle.



The Banks need the cash flow.

The builder has no cash and needs a get out route.

The buyer has cash and a will to get the property finished.



If you can get the three parties around the table.

Assess the value of the property as if it went to auction.

This negotiated value must be paid to the bank to release any charge over the property. REMEMBER..the bank desperately need the cash flow so cash is king.



cont.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 13:35

Prepare a new contract of sale with builder and OR land owner ( must have KOCAN) to pass title of land and unfinished property to you the buyer and now the new developer.



It would be very important to get this contract and re-assignment absolutely water tight to meke sure all parties meet their obligations.



The property, al be it unfinnished, becomes a new project and you can effectively start the project with your own money and direct one of the TRNC developers that are still solvent and reliable to project manage and complete on your behalf.



There are of course obstacles and difficulties in many cases such as large developments that have no parcelisation. Non co-operation of parties.

However the problem must be tackled head on or propertie will be lost to auction and buyers without title will have little chance of re-couping any loss.

Court action would involve significant expense, time and stress.



Negotite your way through before it gets too late.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 15:18

msg 54, slimboyfat.



The details were front page of Cyprus Today, or possibly page 3, memory is dimmed..



Whatever it could not have got a higher profile.



Sorry if I sound a bit abrupt but there was loads of publicity about this meeting. May be as many of us think, you see the headline and say, oh no not again.



Perhaps if there was no notice on the forum you use most you could let Marian and crew know so that next time it gets posted there.

slimboyfat


Joined: 01/05/2008
Posts: 96

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 15:42

I don't read Cyprus Today.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 16:01

slimboyfat, with respect.

Disapointed to hear that you feel too intimidated to participate on the forum.

You do not read CT so could not possibly know of the HBPG meeting.



I do hope that you can re-attatch yourself to matters that you clearly have an interest in.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 16:20

'Life is ten percent what happens to you and ninety percent how you respond to it.'

Lou Holtz

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 18:53

Kavenkoy , will you start a new thread re your brill idea re UK meeting ?

cocos


Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 129

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 19:02

Sibel your message 46-53 are very well put. Maybe you should be running in the election!

cocos


Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 129

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 19:06

I think so far Sibel only cyprusishome has answered your question to guage support for a peaceful protest. I'd be more than willing to give support to that. Who else would?

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
14/12/2008 19:21

I'm sorry that I didn't make it more plain that I don't live permanently in NC. I have thought about doing so but have decided against it. I do live in the UK. I have empathy with slimboyfat re the forum topics. I do read Cyprus Today but it gets to me at least a week behind publication. With regards publicity I thought I'd been told that Marian doesn't participate in forums because of the negative comments. A tad rich to criticise others then for not doing so.

I fear all this is too little too late. I am reading today in both the Sunday Times and the Mail on Sunday that expats especially within the Eurozone (i.e. Spain) are selling up if they can and returning to the UK. This is fuelled of course by the drop in the euro exchange rate especially if in receipt of a UK pension in £. Similar problem will arise NC if not already, I would suggest. The TRNC government, builders etc. have taken no real action to solve the obvious problems so far. Even if they do, is it too late?

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 00:44

Obviously not that burning an issue then. Over 3 hours since the last post. Restaurants, football scores, lost dog, broadband etc. more on topic it appears.

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 08:25

I would also support a peaceful protest . Where shall we go from here ?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 09:18

i think the hbpg has done loads of good work for everyone who has had problems here.

as for giving out the correct information i have to disagree on the issue of brits not being given ptp on pre 74 turkish tile anymore.

we have been given ours this year!

if anyone like to call me a liar then my door is open you can view our kochan anytime.

you will see it is dated this year.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 09:26

FS, I know you have stated this before.



But I think this applies to more recent applications from the posts I have read here and elsewhere.

Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 10:51

FS & CIS



This is not a recent development - still hundreds waiting for permission from as far back as 2002.



Some have to be granted, otherwise it's obviously discrimination isn't it?

Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 11:15

Kibris Sibel



Well said as usual. Count me in for a peaceful protest.



I do wonder if the resident problem purchasers use this forum. Of course, it is visited by many but so many of the topics are lighthearted.



It is of great benefit to those in the UK as they can keep abreast of the issues and problems that they may face in the future but unfortunately, we cannot count on their turnout at meetings.



Prior to the next meeting, would it be possible to contact all those people living here and who have given their details to the HBPG, to ask them for their support and to outline the gravity of the situation.



It is evident that there are other "posters" who are willing to help in mounting a fresh campaign.

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 11:17

Well said Molly

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 11:32

slimboyfat: "Thanks to the likes of Pike and Suzzanne I rarely come on the BB now."



Perhaps your failure to listen to good advice has cost you your life savings. Do you feel more in your comfort zone with TRNC estate agents and developers?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 12:46

molly

i think it is luck and not discrimination as hubby and i, are both brits.

as i have said before, chase ptp monthly with the correct office not your lawyer and just be polite.

any kind of protest will get you knowhere and more than likely ensure that you wont get ptp.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 13:22

FS,



That was one of the key messages at the meeting last week. Go to the office every day if needs be and pester the life out of the people. Always be polite and always make notes. Advice from a friend who has the hassle every year with businessthings, make notes in front of person and alwyas double check back with the person before you leave.



Molly,



We live here permantly as do many others who use this and the other forums. I consider we are lucky in many ways as we can confront our issues on a regular basis. Although sometimes we do wish we were not here!!!!!!!

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 13:22

Pipie and Molly,



You both maintain the same views of what can be done?



I will offer to you and to any others to facilitate views off forum to then offer those views "from the floor" back to HBPG Committe. I do not want to be chairman or whatever of any group but if there enough people who wish to chip in, as I said off forum, maybe collate info back to this and any other forum for the usual before handing on.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
15/12/2008 14:40

cyprusishome

i am just about to email you.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 00:21

Does anyone know if there are any plans to hold another HBPG meeting?

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 00:52

Cypruishome I have E-mailed you .

punk rocker


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 07:36

Hector

Marion does not participate - but believe me she reads every post, and Sibel is one of the worker bees who does a brilliant job and is putting into words for all our benefits what Marion wants us all to hear, so your comment on message 64 was really uncalled for.



In my humble opinion it would be a very good idea to organise a large meeting in the UK IN a large centre on a day when most people can arrend, get massive publicity via newspapers, TV and adverts, then maybe just maybe the TRNC government will sit up and take notice

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 08:44

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/petitioncyprus/index.html



Good idea Punk rocker would support you on that .

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 09:07

Heard from Sibel , who has said that the petition has NOT YET gone to officials as HBPG is still awaiting an appointment . Soooooooooo folks we all have the opportunity to push the petition , now let us all see what we can achieve , I have asked Izzet if he will do a sticky thingy or what ever else he suggests to bring it to the forefront . I will also ask the managers if it can go on another private forum , could some of you ask if it can remain at the top of other forums that they use please ?

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 10:17

Hi Punk Rocker,



I am all for having a meeting and protest in the Uk but as the TRNC Consulate is in London and they are closed Saturdays. How are we going to achieve maximum coverage unless we march on a weekday and in London. I will attend wherever we decide to march. If we march and protest outside the consulate you will guarantee a good coverage.



The Butler

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 11:00

For those in UK.



Why not try and liase with HBPG and the UK based Embargoed. Their web address is - http://www.embargoed.org/



Not sure it it fits their remit but unless you try!!!

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 18:03

I have managed to get ://www.ipetitions.com/petition/petitioncyprus/index.html

a private forum , has anyone else managed to get the petition on any other forums ?

kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 21:53

hi all

been working away for a few days .



so trying my best to catch up ,who wants uk meeting ?is this good idea?



who will arrange (venue)

what will be covered ?

who will chair and set actions etc



how dow we fund etc etc



kav

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
16/12/2008 22:44

Might be a good idea to see what Response you have first Kavenkoy.

Jacs67


Joined: 15/03/2008
Posts: 23

Message Posted:
21/12/2008 01:17

I've just tried to sign the petition but the following comes up ` It appears that somebody has already signed this petition with the same information'. The disconcerting thing here is that I have changed my name by deed poll since purchasing my property and any paperwork held in TRNC at present is in my old name...???

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
21/12/2008 09:44

Jacs67,

It appears to be a peculiarity of the on-line petition site that the first time you enter your details it actually works, although it appears not to!

The second time you try, it quite correctly tells you that you've already done it.

Re-visit the site, and click on the link to view all of the names, you will find yours there, at no 1217 in the list!

Anyone else, after entering your details just once, view the list of names, and you will be there at the top - if you're quick enough, that is!



Keith.

Jacs67


Joined: 15/03/2008
Posts: 23

Message Posted:
21/12/2008 21:09

Thanks for that Keith, all checked out and above board! ;)