British Govt. are they being vindictive?

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
06/02/2012 08:03

Why are they pursuing the case against Mr. Nadir. How is it in the pyblic interest? I personally see no merit in conducting the costly and, in my opinion, vindictive case against Mr Nadir after so long, under the Limitation Act of 1980 there is no limitation in time to being able to prosecute what is described as Fraudulent breach of trust. I think there should be. Surely the Crown Prosecution Service has some discretion in these matters?



Fatal Accidents Act 1976 claims has a General Limitation of 3 yrs, now how can that equate to no time limit on Fraudulent brerach of trust.

Giles


Joined: 16/08/2011
Posts: 256

Message Posted:
06/02/2012 08:06

So if the people who have scammed you and stolen your money, can keep out of the clutches of the law for long enough, thats ok?

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
06/02/2012 08:16

Not at all Giles, just throwing the whole thing open for debate - appreciate your point but in our case the perps. would have nowhere to run to so not quite the same.



Fraud is a civil matter here we are told, yet they say the law is based on British law. If some of the limitations are the same here, then it might be worth noting that Simple Contracts have a limitation of 6 years in the UK and Speciality Contracts 12 years. I would guess that a Contract of Sale would come under Simple contract, so if you have an issue with your contract, time could be of the essence.

Giles


Joined: 16/08/2011
Posts: 256

Message Posted:
06/02/2012 08:20

Polly, are you saying that if Kursat et al had somewhere to run, it would be vindictive of a Government to attempt to bring them to justice?

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
06/02/2012 08:23

Pauline



With respect - You are extremely active in trying to bring to justice both the companies and person(s) whom you believe have fraudulently deprived you and a number of other people out of your homes and significant amounts of money. I see that you believe that there should be a time limit under which you can pursue someone for fraudulent breach of trust - how long do you feel someone should be liable to prosecution for these type of offences and would you be happy for this time limit to apply to your own personal case ?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
06/02/2012 08:29

The simple answer is the law puts more store in money than it does in life.

The long answer is of course that all the time the perpetrator continues to enjoy their ill-gotten gains and the those deprived remain deprived of those same funds, the effect of the fraud is exacerbated.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
06/02/2012 10:06

Giles no. If I thought there was a cat in hells chance of the investors getting their money back (assum ing guilty, which I dont) but AFTER so long??? Debate is healthy, isnt it?



paul, same answer really, if Mr Nadir had been tried at the time or nearer to the time then perhaps, if found guilty, restitution could have been made. Now is a little too late, don't you think??



Cannot compare my problem with this one, different time span, different country, different rules. Fraud is said to be a CIVIL offence here. Important to note, Mr Kursat is the Advocate only.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
06/02/2012 10:17

Don't forget that Mr Nadir himself has faith in the UK Justice system, which is why he felt able to voluntarily return to the UK to face the allegations, confident he will get a fair trial.

Geoff

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
06/02/2012 11:36

Polly



Re Msg 7



"paul, same answer really, if Mr Nadir had been tried at the time or nearer to the time then perhaps, if found guilty, restitution could have been made. Now is a little too late, don't you think??"



The courts could not try Mr Nadir as he had already done a bunk to the TRNC which as you will know does not have an extradition treaty with the UK. Justice is justice and I am sure that all those who were affected by the Polly Peck affair would like to see justice done regardless of the time span. IF found guilty, restitution can still be made via a prison sentence and/or repayment of the missing money.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
06/02/2012 13:24

Msg9, do you think the missing money

will be found ?

munchkin


Joined: 12/08/2011
Posts: 15

Message Posted:
06/02/2012 13:37

philbailey the missing money Nadir stole is all around you, you read the facts of how it was spirited away (to N Cyprus) you'll see what I mean.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
06/02/2012 14:00

Phil



Who knows.......Mr NADIR is claiming legal aid so he must be skint

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
06/02/2012 14:07

How much a month is the house he is renting ?

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
06/02/2012 14:15

The statute of limitation periods are somewhat flexible in as much as courts are empowered to start the count from when matters first became apparant rather than when they occurred. There are often out of time applications.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
06/02/2012 14:51

Re Msg 13: I understand from UK press reports that the Maida Vale house he is staying in has been provided FOC by a friend over there. Which is what friends are for!

Geoff

Famagusta City.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
06/02/2012 17:41

Message 12 - Paul you hit the nail on the head, legal aid could be construed as throwing good money after bad. Look at the cost of even mounting this trial. That is what I mean when I say, is it in the public interest?

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/02/2012 19:11

Yes ,it is Polly because fraud is fraud in the UK clear and simple.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
07/02/2012 01:55

Tycoon Asil Nadir splashed out more than £4million on luxury homes using money stolen from his business empire, a court heard today.



Nadir, 70, spent cash from the company on his lavish £1.2m London townhouse and a sprawling £7m country estate that he intended to turn into a hotel and golf course, the Old Bailey was told.



He was also said to have used £1.9m siphoned off from his Polly Peck empire to pay the deposit on an office block in Park Lane, Mayfair, although the deal was never completed.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
07/02/2012 01:58

The seven companies were administered by two finance firms in Switzerland, but documents relating to them were removed when inquiries began to be made into Nadir’s affairs, it is alleged.



Some of them were taken directly from Switzerland to Northern Cyprus by Nadir’s chauffeur straight after the multimillionaire’s South Audley Management company was raided by the Serious Fraud Office, said Mr Shears.



When administrators went to Northern Cyprus hoping to recover funds, they found nothing but a 'black hole', jurors heard.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
07/02/2012 02:10

msg 15, acording to the uk press



The moment the Nadirs set foot upon British soil they set about ensuring that they recreated the lavish life style to which they are accustomed. They rented a £20,000 a month Mayfair town house after a bail surety of £250,000 had been paid.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/cyprus/7969753/The-real-reason-Asil-Nadir-has-returned.html

bertieboss


Joined: 22/07/2011
Posts: 149

Message Posted:
07/02/2012 02:49

Nadir is typical of the type who , like his friends in "government" turn a blind eye to the shenanigans in TRNC regarding property problems, bent lawyers etc. whilst living in luxury paid for by the shareholders of Pollypeck.

And he "scarpered' from the UK by " the back door".

That must have needed some back handers and a blind eye by officialdom!?

Don't know the facts but as a barrack room lawyer would put him away where he belongs.

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
07/02/2012 08:06

Did not know that he had been found guilty yet or are the comments just conjecture? The thread title asks if the British Govnt are being vindictive - I would say, no more so than some of the replies. The simple reason that Nadir has been chased by the law for so long is that he is an easy target. The police can find him anytime (whilst on holiday), he can appear in the news and sell papers, the lawyers can talk to each other to claim their pay and the public is on the side of the charges made against him - regardless of any in depth knowledge of the whole thing, it is always a good feeling to side with those who have been cheated!



So there you go, British Justice will be seen to be done, lots of people will make lots of money out of the whole thing, anyone who was cheated will not see another penny of compensation - the lawyers will have eaten all that - and the man himself will return. Time under arrest will count against sentence and BA will pay for his return flight!

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
07/02/2012 08:30

A good and varied selection of opinions but at the end of the day, will justice prevail, be done and be seen to be done? I think waddo is correct and Mr N. will have his life back without any clouds on his horizon having paid his debt to society. So what will the trial have achieved?

davpat


Joined: 23/08/2011
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
07/02/2012 10:46

Has anyone considered the misery that Polly Peck employee's suffered? most were owed money,including redundancy payments when the company folded.







David

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
07/02/2012 14:22

Were the employees in a Union over there?

If so usually they would help get monies owed.

It is what unions are very good at.

Geoff

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
07/02/2012 15:06

David, yes but that is not what the thread was trying to address.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
08/02/2012 09:21

Maybe not Waddo, but it is all relevant.

Geoff

Famagusta City.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
08/02/2012 09:44

The collapse of Polly Peck caused a massive 'fall out', to empoyees, to investors and pension funds, the market was in turmoil at the time, but the likelihood of addressing any of that after so long?