UK government - what a cheek!

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
13/02/2012 08:40

In an email received from an old UK friend this a.m.!



I don't know if you seen about it - our bloody government is now asking terminally-ill people to look for work, and also suggesting that elderly people should move into smaller houses to ease the housing shortage.  Thundering cheek - why the hell should we have to move just when we've got a comfortable home and the time enjoy it for our later years?  We've struggled to buy it - worked hard all our lives - and in our case, it's the first time we've got it anywhere near what we wanted when I worked.  I wonder if the bastards would like us to give the money from the sale of our "too big" houses to the rich too, maybe help bolster the bankers' bonuses?  This lot truly disgust me!  Grrrrr!!!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
13/02/2012 08:49

It was only good advice that you move to a smaller house and enjoy the extra cash and also help alleviate the housing shortage. Nobody is forcing you to do it. It was only good free advice.

ismet

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
13/02/2012 11:40

I think you may have miss understood what your friend was saying.

I think they are talking about people who have council / social housing not owners. I have heard this before.

Why should a couple whos kids have left home now still be intitled to say a three bed house? when many families are homeless and on a waiting list. I personal find this a little selfish.



I also don't think that some of the so called sick and disabled are incapable of working, many just sit around taking benefits when they could be doing some sort of part time job at least.

mamachina


Joined: 22/11/2008
Posts: 730

Message Posted:
13/02/2012 11:48

I think Im with you there - council houses in the village we lived in were BIG! Some of them had one oldish man or woman living alone - occasionally visited by family. They could have gone in to a smaller apartment nearer or in the town, giving up the house for some of the younger couples with children on the lists. i have nothing against people wanting to live in their own paid for houses, but council houses are another thing. Well maintained - usually - by the council - something wrong weith the oven/top etc, usually a new one installed. Lovely!

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
13/02/2012 11:50

Interesting to hear from your perspectives!



Being a Kiwi, I frankly know very little about UK - neither do I care!



Having said that, I try to empathise with unfortunate people, the world over.



'There but for the grace of God go I!' - wishful thinking to hope there is a caring God - unfortunately, the huge extent of human suffering doesn't support the theory of the existence of any caring god.

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
13/02/2012 12:09

I suggest you e-mail your friend back and tell him you don't care, why post in the first place if it's nothing to do with you.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
13/02/2012 12:28

I hope you have a nice day, too, 'Woodspeckie'!

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
13/02/2012 12:40

I will here in my little bit of heaven in the UK.



mamachine. Agree with you my Cousin was living in a four bedroom council house after his parents died and the other children left home, after 6 years we persuaded him to apply for a flat, the council didn't ask him to move, he got one almost straight away and couldn't be happier.

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
13/02/2012 13:22

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/joepublic/2010/mar/23/employment-support-allowance-incapacity-benefit



And NO - I don't buy the Guardian!!!!!!!!! Just providing a link, for some perspective

astro941


Joined: 22/05/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
13/02/2012 15:43

Yes, beat up the vulnerable with your 'common' sense. Perhaps the wealthy could share their large homes with these people, they then wouldn't require state assistance or use of Public property. Lets call it 'Meals without wheels'. Anyone sitting in property here with unoccupied rooms?

janjin



Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 488

Message Posted:
13/02/2012 16:07

The 'down sizing' for council tenant's is voluntary and is called the tenant incentive scheme in Hull.

Some moving costs are covered I believe.

Quarmby


Joined: 15/09/2008
Posts: 975

Message Posted:
13/02/2012 20:02

I am surprised that there are any council houses left after Thatcher encouraged everyone to buy them for a pittance and then sell them off for a fat profit a few years later.

racoonchic



Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3223

Message Posted:
13/02/2012 20:21

and now that hes enjoying his little flat..are there a family of space invaders enjoying his big house with all the trimmings..i wonder..isnt the uk great

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
13/02/2012 22:03

racoonchic. Mother Father and 3 children live there, Dad works full time Mum works part time local store 2 children at High school and one child at Primary school, a respectable family living a nice quiet village life.

islandgirl


Joined: 12/09/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
13/02/2012 23:24

Being a Kiwi why don't you keep your ill informed nose out of UK affairs.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
13/02/2012 23:32

Msg 15

What about your 'affairs' when you can't even work out your 'Marital Status' and, no doubt, hide your e-mail address for obvious reasons!!



Richard

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
13/02/2012 23:54

move them out of them big houses , them imigrants are sleeping in the doorways of the benefit offices and need housed .

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 00:10

Tenakoutou (still have to look how to spell your name)!



Hope your feeling ok? (it's good to see you back on form)! Think you may have started another war



rowlo (mess 17) You could offer them your caravan! or your house without deeds! or your scottish abode on Lochness! with a Hagis and a wee tot of whiskey as their welcome pack!

islandgirl


Joined: 12/09/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 00:14

Brinsley it would appear Tanakoutou does the same! Not that it is any of your business.

PhilUK


Joined: 31/03/2010
Posts: 236

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 01:04

msg one- Tena, I think you opened mouth before engaging brain- you said 'our bloody government'- but then when you realized your keyboard had cashed a check before your brain had written it, you did a crafty retraction in message 5- then claiming you were from NZ- make your mind up mate!

bertieboss


Joined: 22/07/2011
Posts: 149

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 02:22

The usual "Daily Mail" readers spouting off again!!

Message 4 - I thought we had not found life on other planets but there you are!!

racoonchic



Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3223

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 07:43

bertie basset i was reffering to small families or single people being encouraged to leave there life long homes so a family of asylum seekers or dolites can move in to reap all the benifets from the state..

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 08:48

there'll soon be no one left in Ireland.All are on the move to England,seeking work,if not going on benefits!



how do I know? ;)





half the houses are empty in co.Offaly.................good old england...............too attractive!

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 09:08

Bang on the button yorg !!

I now accept all is handed on a plate to the low life leeches.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 09:31

This from another UK friend this a.m. ! > > >



The uk governments of the last decade or so have left the nation in a fearfull financial state. We have now had three sessions of quantative  easing applied by the bank of england  (funny money) some are saying this is for Britain a massive experiment in money printing the modern world has ever seen , and we are still sending 50 million pounds to Brussels every day of the year, thank God we never joined the Euro or we would have become a third world country in2008 in stead of in the next 18 months, Roy i do not exaggerate!!! Our coalition government now guarantees the unemployed  £26000 a year way above the lowest paid workers ,we must be insane as a nation. Interesting to hear you burn wood for heating your home ,we stopped wood burning since it became envionmently friendly issue the price of timber shot through theroof in the UK, now it is much more expensive than coal!

islandgirl


Joined: 12/09/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 10:44

I think your friend is leading you a merry dance, the 26K he refers to is a cap on housing benefit which was uncapped before so this is a good thing. NOT " Our coalition government now guarantees the unemployed £26000 a year"



Wood may be more expensive where you friend is but generally it is way cheaper.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 11:07

Ok, 'island girl' - from another UK pal:





     I  THINK THIS GUY HAS IT ALL COVERED. I COULDN'T SPOT  ANYTHING HE LEFT OUT. 

   

"I  am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White,   Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working  Brit and I work long hours to earn a living. 



I  believe in God and the freedom of  religion, but I don't push it on others. I drive  British-made cars, and I believe in British products and  buy them whenever I can.



I believe the money I  make belongs to me and not some bloody governmental  functionary, Tory/Greens or  Liberal, that wants to  share it with others who don't work!



I'm in touch  with my feelings and I like it that way!



I think  owning a home doesn't make you a  capitalist; it  makes you a smart Brit. I think being a minority does not  make you noble or victimized, and does not entitle you to  anything. Get over it!



I believe that if you are  selling me a Big Mac or any other item, you should do it  in English.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 11:07

A friend of mine who is self employed did his last piece of work in November. His business has completely dried up. He has paid in to the system for 30 years and has never previously claimed dole money. He has been attempting to claim umemployment benefit now for the last two months and has had to attend three meetings at the job centre. Last week they rejected his claim. He has not received a penny in benefit. He is now broke and has to consider selling his home to raise funds.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 11:12

Cont'd:



believe there should be no other language  option.



I believe everyone has a right to pray to  his or her God when and where they want to. 

 

My heroes are, fellow Brits like Freddy  Flintoff, Ben Parkinson, Winston Churchill  and the  Aussie scientists who invented the bionic ear – missed a  few I know.

I don't hate the rich, but hate the way  they always find ways to pay less taxes. I don't pity  the  poor, I hate the way they are always crying that  they are hard done by!!



I know wrestling is fake  and I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it. 



I believe if you don't like the way things are  here, go back to where you came from and change your own  country!



This is ENGLAND.....We like it the way it  is and more so the way it was...so stop trying to change  it to look like some other socialist country! If you were  born or legally migrated here and don't like it... you are  free to move to any Socialist  country that will have  you.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 11:16

Cont'd:



I believe if you don't like the way things are  here, go back to where you came from and change your own  country!



This is ENGLAND.....We like it the way it  is and more so the way it was...so stop trying to change  it to look like some other socialist country! If you were  born or legally migrated here and don't like it... you are  free to move to any Socialist  country that will have  you. I believe it is time to really clean house, starting  with the House of Commons, the seat of our biggest  problems.



I want to know exactly, where the "Do  Gooder's" get their money from, and why are they always  part of the problem and not the solution?



Can I  get an AMEN on that one?



I also think the cops  have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the  law, regardless of what race, color or creed you are, but  not just because you happen to be an illegal alien and  scream that they are "RACISTS PIGS". And, no, I don't mind  having my face shown on my driver's licens

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 11:18

Cont'd:



At a Victorian high school  foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school  flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was  expelled...the students who took it down.



West  London high school students were sent home, because they  wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them. 



Enough is enough.



This message needs to be  viewed by every Brit; and every Briton needs to stand up  for Britian. We've bent over to appease the British-haters  long enough. I'm taking a stand.



I'm standing up  because of the hundreds of thousands who died fighting in  wars for this country, and for the British flag. 



And shame on anyone who tries to make this a  racist message.



Britons, stop giving away Your  RIGHTS !



THIS IS OUR COUNTRY !



This  statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration ! 



YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, welcome to  come legally:



1. Get a sponsor  !

2. Learn  the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past!

3. Live  by

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 11:22

Cont'd:



1. Get a sponsor  !

2. Learn  the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past!

3. Live  by OUR rules !  Dress as we Britons Do

4. Get a  job !

5. Pay YOUR Taxes !

6. No Social Security  until you have earned it and Paid for it !

7. NOW find  a place to lay your head !



If you don't want to  forward this for fear of offending someone, then YOU'RE  PART OF THE PROBLEM  !



We've gone so far the  other way...bent over backwards not to offend anyone. 



Only Britons seem to care when British Citizens  are being offended  !



WAKE UP BRITAIN !  !  !



If you do not Pass this on, may your  fingers cramp !



Made in BRITON & DAMN PROUD OF  IT!!!!!"

AMEN 

islandgirl


Joined: 12/09/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 12:18

Oh a viral e-mail copied and pasted! Yaaaaaawwwwwwnnnnnnnnn

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 12:57

Msg 33

Viral: adj. of the nature of, caused by, or relating to a virus or viruses. OED



So, after your 'affairs' you've now got a dose?!



Richard

islandgirl


Joined: 12/09/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 13:03

Disgusting little man!

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 13:44

British made cars? do we still make any??

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
14/02/2012 19:16

Message 28, most self-employed people get knocked back for Benefit(JSA) because they have not paid enough contributions for Unemployment Benefit. Class 2 contributions are paid by self-employed who pay a fixed weekly amount which does not cover certain benefits. Class 4 also have to be paid due to profits in the business. Class 3 contributions are voluntary for those who do not pay enough and wish to protect their state pension.



Being self-employed, years ago, meant that you opted out to pay yourself a wage and look after your own future, because, allegedly, you were earning more than the average man on PAYE. People have the choice, self employed(with consequences) and PAYE with some security.



The reason it takes time in the Jobcentre for self-employed for benefits is that they have to look at your business books and the amount of earnings and the correct contributions and it can be very complicated. It is not unusual for someone to attend JC and wait 3 months for a knockback.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/02/2012 11:48

msge 37



Thanks for that info. I am not sure that he has been provided with the level of explanation that you have given. I will pass that information on for him to check.



From what I can see in your second paragraph, you believe that self employed people 'make their own bed and should lie in it'.

This belief reminds me off a statement I recently heard from a government employee who, in talking about pensions said "private employees should stop moaning about their pensions in comparison to the state. They have a choice, and like me, could have joined a government institution".

What a ridiculous statement. To make a remark like this, you have to believe that a country can only survive on government paid work.

As an economist pointed out yesterday, you cannot run government employment at 40% or above, unless you have a world class entrepreneurial sector. Those self employed people, who mend your car, mow your lawn or clean your windows

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/02/2012 11:49

are the entrepreneurs that may one day create jobs for other people and make the economy work.



I agree that self employed people have a choice, and thank god that many of them take up that option and not choose to take the safe path. For if we all chose the protected paye road, then everybody would be much poorer.

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
15/02/2012 12:18

Ilovecyprus, I am not advocating "you made your bed you lie on it" at all. Of course we need people to go self employed, but people need to understand the consequences of this. That is, when they need help it may not always be there. Your "friend who has been self employed for 30 years" would have taken a decision that he could make it self employed and had a vision he could make a good living. Unfortunately now, times have changed for him and sadly now has lost his business.



All I am saying is, during that time he would/should have made provision to put money aside(thats what self employed people are expected to do) to cover for sickness, lean periods of work etc. There are many self-employed people in the past 15 years or so, especially in Construction(and maybe through no fault of their own due to the employment criteria)who have gone self-employed, paid Class 2 contributions(and not paid any extra towards any unforeseen eventualities)and found they cannot get help....cont

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
15/02/2012 12:27

This dinosaur system is not taking into consideration how times have changed for the working man/woman and how employers have changed their attitude towards types of employment. In this climate I would not touch self employment with a barge pole unless I had money to cover me in the lean times.



As for your friend yes its very said when he needs help now but until attitudes change towards self employment, the system is, mostly, that it is geared up only for those on the PAYE system. Self employed are expected to put enough aside to help themselves because in the old days those people were expecting to earn more than the average man on PAYE.



I responded because your original posting because it needed to be explained there is a vast difference and just because someone is self employed does not give them automatic right to benefit, whatever peoples views, that it how it is. It depends on your circumstances and remember people in the same household are taken into consideration

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
15/02/2012 12:45

Ilovecyprus...also your friend is entitled to a full explanation of why his claim was turned down and should have it explained to him what other benefits he may be entitled to, again, depending upon his circumstances. i.e does he have a wife working, how many hours and dependent children, mortgage or rent, second home, savings. All factors are taken into consideration.



He can also appeal against the decision on Form GL24 from JCP (or he can go to his nearest CAB office and ask them for advice) and has 28 days to do this from date of decision. He has to give full explanation as to why "he" thinks the decision is incorrect.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/02/2012 13:03

msge 40



dalartotak, I am sure that he was aware of the consequences, and knowing him, I am sure he would have made provisions for the bad times, as best he can. He has to take self responsibility (which he has chosen) and to develop his own income, however you can batten down the hatches, tie down the rigging and take on provisions but if the storm is too strong the ship may be taken down.

The question is, in rough seas do we allow self employed people to drown or do we throw them a life raft? There is a case for both.



He may have tried to swim to the shore, but as you know the job market is sour and he wont have had a big fat redundancy to fall back on.



If a commentator feels that by being self employed, they are then disembedded from society, and by virtue make no contribution to society, then they will favour them drowning.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/02/2012 13:05

For the record I believe he has been self employed for 6 years and was PAYE for 24 years. From what he has said to me, and having a looked at a government website I reckon he has been paying both class 2 and class 4, but I would need to check with him.



Thanks for all of your info and replying to my post. You may have wished you had not. I will pass your information on.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/02/2012 13:08

msge 43



correction '.....redundancy package to fall back on.'

Harold2555



Joined: 19/04/2008
Posts: 1139

Message Posted:
15/02/2012 13:34

Neither Class 2 nor Class 4 contributions entitle anyone to Unemployment benefit or more properly I believe jobseekers allowance. Nor do they entitle you to sickness benefit.



There are benefits, income support etc that are available in cases of true hardship but these will normally be subject to a wealth test.



entrepreneurs have the option of trading via a limited company and thereby they are employees not self employed. The amounts of Tax and National insurance paid for the same income levels will however in the vast majority of cases be higher than that paid by a self employed person earning the equivalent amount, at least until the stage where there are earnings in excess of requirements for the individual.



Harold

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/02/2012 13:56

msge 46



Thank you for your contribution, adding to what Dalartokat has said. I will advise him to look at income support.

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
15/02/2012 15:59

ilovecyprus, I hope you are not indicating that I would rather see self employed people drown. Far from it if you read my postings as they are meant.



You did not say in your original posting either that your friend was on PAYE for 24 years and only the last 6 years self employed. Although the siutation of 24 years on PAYE will not make any difference. I am quite happy to reply to your postings if you read what is being said to you.



Unfortunately the word "consequences" comes over hard, but your friend is not alone. I have worked in the Jobcentre as an Advisor and have seen this many times where people who have been self employed, especially in Construction, completely gutted because they are not entitled to anything and saying, "but I have paid my NI contributions" and when you explain to them it does not cover certain benefits they get angry at you. I now work for the CAB and see the other side of how it affects people and their families and its not getting any better.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/02/2012 17:21

dalartokat, I used the word 'commentator' to depersonalise and generalise my statement, so don't take it to mean you.

You have gone on to be clear that you see both sides of the story, something I was not sure of in your first post. I heard your response, as typical, of one being made by a front line government employee. I was wrong to assume, however I did guess right. I also accept that front line employees feel a tear and tug when they have to hold an uncomfortable line.



In terms of employee status. I was not clear and you did not clarify.

SWCathy


Joined: 22/11/2011
Posts: 292

Message Posted:
15/02/2012 19:30

I lived in a big victorian terraced house over 4 floors - Loved it. It had all the original features (even the servants bell in the kitchen). #

Our children left home and the dog died - 2 of us left in 7 rooms. We made one bedroom into a gym another we made into an office and we ran out of ideas for the 3rd room so we dumped stuff into it.

So we moved into a smaller modern house and saved a fortune in Gas/Electric bills. We then downsided again into a bungalow, so we could get the money to move here.

Why keep a big house and waste money - it makes sense to downsize and live in a home which meets your needs.

Having worked with disabled people, I have met several people who were terminally ill and wanted to work and train for work. The did not want to sit around the house thinking about their end. So they kept their minds and bodies active by training for work and in some cases getting work (usually part time) but it gave them something else to focus on.

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
15/02/2012 19:57

SWCathy.



What year are you talking about because not in 2012 ?



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2101266/Thousands-workers-forced-delay-retirement-afford-leave-jobs.html



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2101431/UK-unemployment-Number-female-jobseekers-reaches-highest-level-23-years.html



JMHO.But I do feel the UK needs to wake up !



Spider,X