demolish our homes?

Zanny


Joined: 18/12/2008
Posts: 49

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 21:37

U.K. Couple Should Demolish Cyprus Home, EU Aide Says (Update2)

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By Caroline Byrne



Dec. 18 (Bloomberg) -- A British couple ordered by a judge in southern Cyprus to demolish their vacation home in northern Cyprus should be bound by the ruling, an adviser to the European Union’s highest court said in a non-binding opinion today.



The opinion, from an adviser to the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg, said southern Cyprus has jurisdiction to order Linda and David Orams to demolish their home in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. The court generally follows opinions and is expected to rule within a year.



The case, which has bounced from courts in Nicosia to London to Luxembourg, has implications for thousands of Britons who own property in Northern Cyprus. The Orams, from Hove, England, said they invested 160,000 pounds ($246,000) in a holiday home in Lapithos, a region in the north occupied by Turkish troops in 1974.

Zanny


Joined: 18/12/2008
Posts: 49

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 21:40

The decision of the southern Cyprus court should require the U.K. courts to act, regardless of whether it is practical to enforce the ruling at this time, the opinion said.

“A judgment of a court in the Republic of Cyprus must be recognized and enforced in other member states even where it relates to land in northern Cyprus,” Advocate General Juliane Kokott said in her opinion.

Meletios Apostolides, whose family originally owned the land, brought the action against the British couple. He argued in a U.K. hearing that the law of Northern Cyprus couldn’t be relied on to deprive him of title to the land.

Not Counting Chickens

Simon Congdon, Apostolides’s lawyer, said that while today’s EU court opinion was important it wasn’t final. “It is a good idea if one doesn’t count chickens before they are hatched,” Congdon said.

Once the EU court rules, the decision should have the same effect as if it were made by the U.K. courts, Congdon said. The couple has also been ordered to pay

Zanny


Joined: 18/12/2008
Posts: 49

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 21:41

roughly 15,000 pounds compensation to Apostolides, which can be enforced through the U.K. court, he said.

Cyprus has been divided since 1974, when Turkey invaded the northern third of the island to block attempts to unite the country with Greece. While the Nicosia court order is unenforceable in Northern Cyprus, Greek Cypriot residents can bring claims in southern Cyprus and other European Union member states under a 2001 regulation that allowed judgments in one country to be enforced in another.

The Republic of Cyprus on the southern part of the island joined the EU in 2004.

Hassan Vahib, the London-based lawyer for the Orams, wasn’t in the office and didn’t respond to a phone message today.

The case is Apostolides v. Orams, C-420/07.



what the hell is going on? Why's Bloomberg saying thye need to pay 15,000GBP now? DOes this ruling count?



Can they take our property in Sussex?

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 21:46

A significant development for anyone with property in TRNC.



Ruling expected in about 6 months.

Could be a flood of litigations from both GC for property in North and from TC for property in South.



I strongly believe that EU and UN will see sense and prevent mass destructions, evictions, closing of buisnesses, general anarchy, and violence as seen in 1964-74.

The whole Island would fall into inevitable decline and may take generations to recover.

Come on you political big boys get something sorted.!!

Zanny


Joined: 18/12/2008
Posts: 49

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 21:48

The GC's have theirs sorted. Live in the south for 6 months and you get your property back...YOU CAN'T TOUCH THEM WITH A COURT CASE NOW.

I DEMAND to know what is going to happen with our properties here! WHere is the govt on this?



If i lose this house my family is ruined.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
18/12/2008 22:14

Zanny,

I shouln,t panic . No ruling has yet been made. OK things now look less positive for Cyprus on the whole.

WE can only wait and see what hapens next year. I wish you good luck.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 09:38

waz

i thought the ruling was made at the last hearing?

it is just not being revealed yet, due to the ongoing talks.

i also think that was the final hearing.

Soothsayer


Joined: 19/11/2008
Posts: 134

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 11:32

Hey, the good thing about this is that the tcs can claim the larnaca airport and the larnaca powerstation which was build on turkish cypriot land.. hurrey. Airport & energy monopol comming...

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 11:41

WAZ - what you for get is that the Turkish troops are here, so nothing is going to get demolished....





Nick

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 13:43

fire starter: "i thought the ruling was made at the last hearing? t is just not being revealed yet, due to the ongoing talks. i also think that was the final hearing."



Very good point. Could yesterday's announcement have been a carefully timed hint of what is to come?

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 15:11

Fire starter,

No. The ruling is due within nex 3 -6 months. Pressure is on for current talks to address, amonst others ,property issues.



Neg Nick.

Turkish troops in TRNC are clearly a detterent to intervention.



However, The bigger picure needs to focus upon PEACE, PROSPERITY and SETTLEMENT.

Anything short will be the demise of the Island and its inhabitants, whatever their colour, creed or religion.

Zanny


Joined: 18/12/2008
Posts: 49

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 15:17

The pressure is on who? As I've been saying all long the geeks have nothing to lose from this situation. The only people that are getting shafted are us. They've carried out policies such as the 6 month rule that have made them untouchable against any rulings. What the hell has our govt been doing to protect us?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 15:34

I post this where and when needed: the local people in the Southern part of the island of Cyprus are NOT Greeks, they are Cypriot Greeks or Greek Cypriots (your choice). Or Greek speaking Cypriots. But NOT!!! Greeks.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
19/12/2008 22:13

RE msg 15, suzanne : (...) msg 13 & 14 Well said!!!!! (...)



===> Just for the record, Madam: I don't want, like or need *your* support. Thank you very much.

moomoo


Joined: 15/12/2008
Posts: 18

Message Posted:
20/12/2008 01:08

Please do not worry my Brittish brothers and sisters.. so long as the Turkish troops are in TRNC there will NEVER be any intervention.. This you can be sure of..



I can see why you worry but have faith.. Turkey has always stood by the TCs and will again.. those soldiers are here for all our protection..



They also saved my life as a 9 year old in 1974..



God bless them!

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
20/12/2008 01:27

Busted Msg 14



It is the ROC that hinders the re-unification. The ROC rejected the Annan Plan of 2004.



Your brash comments carry very little substance and are full of sad nationalistic overtones.



It is sad that you take the view that all is well for the Islands future.



The future will be decided soon as pressure for a resolution amid current talks is apparent. The EU and UN will, I feel put pay, to your asspirations of mass destruction.

Please cosider your postings more carefully and be realistic.

You too are governed by European Law.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
20/12/2008 02:38

Busted,

You are a bounder and a cad.

acypriot


Joined: 06/01/2009
Posts: 8

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 01:17

Do you just write whatever comes down your head? No TCP can claim the Larnaca Airport!

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 01:35

acypriot,

can you please explain to me why Mr Apostolides can claim back his land but the TC whose land has been used for Larnaca Airport cannot? You cannot have one rule for one and another rule for another.



The argument that the TC's land was appropriated is somewhat flawed because the TC was never notified nor offered compensation at the time of building or years later when the airport was extended. Yet the name of the owner was clearly known.



I believe that all property should be returned to the rightful owner TC or GC, if that is what the true owner wishes but surely this has to be the approach for both sides?

Kind regards

Bradus

acypriot


Joined: 06/01/2009
Posts: 8

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 01:29

negativenick & moomoo: just because turkish troops occupy illegally the norther part of Cyprus does not mean that the Greek Cypriot Court does not have the right to rule decisions on what is happening in the Northern part of Cyprus. Remember that the northern part of cyprus belongs (and has before the Turks invaded illegally) to Cypriots. The TRC is not recognized internationally and therefore any illegal trading made in the Northern part of Cyprus under the approval of the Fake goverment of the 'Turkish Republic of North Cyprus' cannot simply be legitimate.



By not having the house demolished that was illegaly developed on someone's else's land (Mr. Apostolides) means that the UK court recognizes TRC.. and there is a high political implication.



It is everyone's responsibility to check whether the land that they are buying really belongs to the seller or whether the seller has stolen this land.



Whats next? Stealing houses, cars etc.. and selling them legally?

techtrader


Joined: 06/08/2008
Posts: 126

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 02:00

oh well reunification just been put back another 20years well done guys!

Val44


Joined: 14/11/2008
Posts: 210

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 02:32

Of course the land is owned by whoever owned the land pre 1974.

The land is in occupied territory. When the occupiers withdraw of course the land should revert to the owner.

It's common sense.

alanka


Joined: 15/09/2007
Posts: 154

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 02:55

Welcome to the forum acypriot hope the move to Brighton went well and you managed to sell the sofa.

acypriot


Joined: 06/01/2009
Posts: 8

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 05:03

Zanny:

The houses that belong to Turkish Cypriots in the Southern part of Cyprus cannot be sold (by law) to anyone not even the Greek Cypriots who live there. This is part of a settlement. Then how can anyone fly in a country where there is a strong political issue going on, purchase a property WITHOUT first researching and investigating whether that purchase is legal or not!



It seems that the opportunity of buying a cheaper house overwins ethical matters and the veil of ignorance exists when it comes to 'opportunities' like this.



I really hope this becomes a lesson to anyone wishing to make any illegal purchase in a country other than their own without at least the consent of the person who legally owns the land - That is the Consent of the person who holds legal documents of ownership under a goverment that is Internationally recognised and not papers with the Signature of a Goverment that is not internationally recognised.

acypriot


Joined: 06/01/2009
Posts: 8

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 05:03

Bradus:



Do you have any city plans that show that the Larnaca Airport is build on land that belongs to turkish cypriots? If so could you please refer me to such document because I really have the curiosity. I was raised in an area next to the airport.. between lands that belong to Turkish Cypriots (please note NOT turks) and greek-cypriots. More importantly, the building i lived for 20 years is connected to fields that used to belong to Turkish Cypriots and since then nobody can use them (not for Sale Not for Development), not even the Goverment will touch them. These fields remain empty as we speak.



On the contrary, I've seen developments and sales of fields belonging to Greek Cypriots in the Northern part of Cyprus. Not only have I seen them but I also got phone numbers of the people trading them illegaly!

acypriot


Joined: 06/01/2009
Posts: 8

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 05:03

techtrader: If reunification involves everyone getting back what belongs to them (both Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots) im more than in favour of it.



But how can there even consider a Reunification if the Turkish Cypriots get back what belongs to them (and right so!) but the Greek Cypriots DON'T get back what belongs to them because English people(as well as other nationalities) bought their lands/properties???



How can there be a resolution if land in North Cyprus is being sold to anyone else before the resolution is still in place?



Do you understand where Im going with this? And do you understand why I'm so opposed to land being sold from both sides - even if Greek Cypriots never ever sold any land/property that belongs to a turkish cypriot where as Turkish Cypriots/Turks continue to do so! And as this case shows... the people who buy land in such way also demand their foreign goverment to step in and support them? Is that support of a step away from a reunification?



T

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 08:47

Hi Acypriot , welcome to the board , re message 26 , just an querry really . and i quote

" More importantly, the building i lived for 20 years is connected to fields that used to belong to Turkish Cypriots and since then nobody can use them (not for Sale Not for Development), not even the Goverment will touch them. These fields remain empty as we speak. " unquote . If you are only 25 yrs old , how could this be . I apologise in advance if i have got this wrong

Regards , Simbas

sylvie


Joined: 12/03/2008
Posts: 1081

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 09:38

simbas,



you thought only woman lies with the age !!! but beleive me he or she , young or old is right - some of my friends having lands in limassol discover they have been use for making roads when they came back to cyprus after 35 years -

it has always been unfair for the TC it is like they never belong anything before !

and why, when you have a property, does you have to be resident ! if it is your parents 'one - would you try to check out an old woman living in there ? in that case the GC should do what they want TC to do ! a dream !

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 10:07

Thanks Sylvie , hope you and your family are keeping well .

Regards , Simbas

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 12:37

Acypriot is Private Pike full stop!

acypriot


Joined: 06/01/2009
Posts: 8

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 12:44

Simbas you confused me?



My home that I was raised in Cyprus is located in fields next to Turkish/Cypriot land, and I spent 20 years there yes. And I'm not 25 I'm 24! I don't understand where the lie is? Please clarify. I know that turkish/cypriot land can not be taken advantage by Anyone (not even the goverment) because I've seen the plans of the area having had an interest in making a purchase (which in the end we didn't when we found out it belonged to turkish/cypriots).



AS for furniture and other comments where did that come from? And why is furniture even being mentioned in this forum?



Regards

acypriot


Joined: 06/01/2009
Posts: 8

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 12:50

frontalman: if it makes you feel better with your self and have nothing else to say then please continue your comments. It shows how greatly you can participate discuss and comment on the issue in a polite and adult matter!