Where is the TRNC going ?

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 00:48

Just returned to the UK from one of our many trips to North Cyprus and we are left wondering where the TRNC is going . Over the last 4 years what progress exactly has been achieved , major roads not finished , the new road to the Karpaz has been left at a standstill for 9 months , the bypass again not finished . A most needed infrastructure just left . Villas/apartments are still being built when no thought is taken into account on the needs to support more inhabitants . Just look at Kibtek in Girne , pretty soon you will have to camp out to pay your electric bills the place is so small . Ercan airport is rapidly going downhill toilets appalling , cleaners on duty openly sleeping on the job . In all honesty why would tourists want to return . We are so dissapointed , what happened to the plans for this then a lovely island . The only thing that is good and continues are the real local people who never fail to please but for how long , what on earth do they think of all of this .

batterboy58



Joined: 20/04/2008
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 02:05

It is all down to money.

Apparently no more funds are forthcoming at the present time to finish these road projects.

It does seem a shame that the money was available to do the majority of the work on the roads and all thats left to do is put the topping on, and yet no money.

Can't imagine this happening in Britain, we would just borrow even more money from the IMF and worry about the repayments later.

But this is Cyprus

Yavas Yavas

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 10:05

Interesting points batterboy , but the words ''this is cyprus '' cannot now be used to exuse the way TRNC is falling behind in the rating for countries to visit , at one time the fact that it was a cheap country to visit and live , coupled up with no crime and fantastic landscapes , these , then qualities are diminishing fast . I was surprised when we left our hire car at the airport for departure , car hire company asked us to lock car and pop keys through a window gap , they then would use a spare key to access the car . What happened to the days when we just left keys under the car mat ,an indication that crime rate is increasing in the TRNC , such a shame .

sparta


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 10:10

might have something to do with the fact, that the man in charge of the North, used to fix fridges for a living, and has no idea how to run the place.



Jobs for the boys!! keep it in the family,

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 10:15

Good point sparta , but how long can this all go on for ? the good news is that the young are beiing educated in different countries so let us hope they can see what is happening and input some sense in order for the TRNC to prosper .

Lambousa Gordon


Joined: 03/11/2007
Posts: 1992

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 10:17

The President has little control over how the country is managed. The President's office has one portfolio: the Cyprus Problem.



Internal management is down to the Council of Ministers headed by the Prime Minister. The fact that the Civil Service Payroll and pensions for ex-civil servants (that is not including other state pensions) amount to 110 million TL (approx GBP 50 million) per month may suggest where the problems lie.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 10:21

Gordon, are you right about this - £50million A MONTH?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 10:30

PIPIE. That a good point about the young now being educated in different countries. But will they want to return to the trnc and live and work here once theye've seen other parts of the world?

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 10:43

No 1 Doydon , I agree yes ,once the young have returned let us hope they will see that a different approach needs to be injected in order for the TRNC to have a postitive future , as message 6 has rightly stated all of this pension money that is being paid out is more of a drain and certainly not an investment for the TRNC .

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 10:45

hill bill gordon is quite correct and the paper thier pay cheques are written on would fill many forests. As for the young being educated elsewhere why would they want to come back when you compare wages in the euro zone to the wages here. That is of course unless they get government, banking etc jobs. Now last week it was announced that if you employ a foriegn worker one top of the social sigorta we have to pay 5% of thier wages into a provident fund to secure jobs for cypriots. They wont do that type of work bill. The work force is made up of mainland turkisk, kurdish Pakistanis and of cours the brits who have set up business. Another way to stuff us all. I cant however see the children from poorer families going abroad to school so where will they end up.I know that there is many different opinions for reunification. In one way at least childrens futures woud be better if they are european

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 11:07

I agree Lilli. There is'nt a future in the trnc at present for the educated youngsters. Then I suppose some will say that it is a holiday island and most of the work will revolve around the service industry for tourism.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 11:10

Hi again Bill its all so very worying. They have called an early election so we wait with baited breath.

Cyprusactive


Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 128

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 11:19

A lot is wrong in North Cyprus, and it is all down to money and this government. The huge wagebill for civil servants is unsustainable and will at some point have to sort itself out as the money is simply not there. Maybe the next government?



Luckily there is more to North Cyprus than an unfinished bypass and a substandard airport. There is still hardly any crime, the coutryside is fabulous, the climate is fantastic and the sea is clear. Most people are kind and helpful. The sun shines practically every day! It is January, and this morning I had my cup of tea on the balcony, overlooking the mountains and listening to the birds. Compare that to the country you come from or live in now. OK, so maybe it isn't as cheap as some years ago (why should it be?) - just eat out a little less and enjoy what is great about this place.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 11:37

Hi PIPIE,



msg 5



TC's are being educated abroad and they, along with successful LTC's who return here, are full of ideas. Problem is the TC's in power and/or with influence don't want any "help" running the place as it wouldn't chime with their own ideas.

Similarly, everyone including those in charge, knows what needs doing including dealing with the civil service which is now a huge, ever hungry monkey on the back of the TRNC. However, the first person in power to try to address this problem will be torn apart by said monkey.

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 11:47

Cyprusactive , good points . but if they keep on building and up to now yes they are , you will have no views left .the locals in Tatlisu have expressed there dissapointment on all of the over development , so that is another down point .You are certainly correct in the kindness of the locals , but sunshine in my opinion will not beckon tourists if the other important stradegies are not put in place , people will just not visit so TRNC will not be able to forward plan any financial reward from tourisim , if this all becomes reality what else will fund TRNC .

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 12:18

TRNCV vaughan Sadly i think you are right . But at least Ministers stand accused of seeing the writing on the wall , as you say they are choosing to ignore alarm bells .

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 12:28

Perhaps the ministers have given up in the knowledge that the current talks may result in power being taken away from them.

denizkisi


Joined: 18/09/2008
Posts: 196

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 12:40

Civil servants are reported as taking the government to court because Decembers paycheck wasn't paid, and no bail out from Turkey forthcoming either....

dixie normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 13:55

A complete collapse of the economy is not far away, as msg 18 points out the cracks are starting to appear, I have no doubt this will probably cause civil unrest as either this or the forthcoming goverment has to confront the pulic sector over its top heavy employment structure. The downturn in tourism and buisness downturn in the next couple of years will be the final nail in the coffin, one can only hope the rising phonix, are not another corrupt incompenant bunch that fill posts through nepotisim and the old boys network. Change has to happen, if it involves a solution with the south expect a sell out as the North has nothing to offer, it can only be seen another bottomless pit the EU has to throw money into, and the EU has enough parasites hanging on at the momment.



D.N

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 13:57

cyprusactive

hardley any crime???

our friend who is a cid officer at girne has been on overtime for weeks.

there is little reported (in the news)crime.

but look at the bigger picture!

crime here is well on the up and up.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 13:58

dixie normus. There's a lot of truth in what you say.

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 13:59

I am amazed at how much money is going into the TRNC coupled up with the recent handout from Turkey , is this what the civil service runs on

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 14:03

I still can't believe it! £50million a month on Civil Servants payroll and pensions. I'm flabbergasted!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 14:12

Ironically, we will never know how many Euros GCs are adding to the "TRNC" economy in Casinos... ;)



..drives the "rump" RoC taxman "crazy"

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 14:29

Bill



Someone recently pointed out that the TRNC is probably no larger in population than some UK Council areas like Norwich, or Ealing, where I am.



Up to 25% of Council Tax and Business Rates are swallowed up by Pension provision for Council employees, let alone current wages.



I don't know the GDP of TRNC, but would not be surprised if they are possibly less 'self administering' than most UK Councils.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 14:55

robnjo

i think the problem is the retirement age is too low here and there are to many people recieving more than one pension from the goverment.

some tc friends have at least 4 pensions.

every year they want more and more money from turkey, how long will the turkish tax payer be prepaired to pay?

to top that all the farmers are just getting hand outs from the e.u.

(the same people who don't recognise the trnc)???

they have loads of cash coming in .

in my view it is just bad management, hopefully things will get better with a new goverment.

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 14:57

If the tax office chased all of the builder developers for all the VAT money that owners have handed over but hasn't been paid over to the tax office.

The government made it easier for foreigners to buy and receive their title deeds, the transfer taxes would then be collected a lot quicker.

There must be millions outstanding that could go into the coffers, this could then be used to finish the roads and clear the rubbish. This should be done now and quickly. I can see holiday makers looking at the TRNC as an alternative to the eurozone this year. Of course it won't happen and another golden opportunity will have been wasted. When will the powers that be learn?

They have had it easy for far too long and it is time they woke up before it is too late.



The Butlers wife

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 15:45

hi bulterswife

i totally agree, loads of tax monies outstanding.

i was speaking at bayram with a tc who runs one of the local councils.

i asked him about the kochan situ and he just laughed at me. they don't care if they don't give them out and collect taxes in.

funny thing is the same person tried to invite themself for xmas dinner at my house.

as you can imagine he didn't get an invite,lol.

he did say something which did make sence though, that this goverment only wants to attract big business's. they don't want small companies, only the multi national type.

they haven't got a clue on how economies and industrys work.

hence they are stuck in a rut, and after all they wouldn't want any university educated person to help them.

just look at cta, they need all the help they can get.

my tc friends often ask for my advice, when i give it they call me a big head.

there is no helping some people!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 15:53

Messages 27 and 28. You're both spot on. It's apathy, thats the problem.

JimmyG


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 900

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 16:18

Msg's 27,28 & 29 highlight the problem but why should we feel that it's somehow our moral duty to try to change the mindset here? It's not - and those that are frustrated by the seemingly blindingly obvious shortcomings here should either accept the way it is or look to move elsewhere.Personally, the fact that it is so different from England is part of the attraction for me - remember when Girne highstreet was all dug up as well as some of the surrounding streets - it looked like Beirut, yet this was self inflicted - but it still made me smile!!

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 16:40

No1Doyen,

By civil servants ,it surely cant mean our defination which is DWP, MOD,Inland Revenue and such --,which in Uk is about 2% of population ,which in trnc terms would equate to about 3000 employees



If it means all public sector then it doesnt appear to be bad,£20000 per employee and a % of that has to go to a pensioners.Depends really on how many draw a pension.£20000 between 1 worker and 3 pensioners sounds okay, but not 1 worker and 1 pensioner







It does mean that however the civil service bill is greater than Turkeys entire subsidy.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 17:06

I only wish that a 'new' government would make any different from the current one. Who are the MP's? Does anyone know one? Will they be out & about meeting the public and gathering votes? I doubt it. What do they fo for the rather large salary they earn (even those who didn't bother to attend for months).

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 17:08

Messege 30 yes i take your point we have no right to change things as it is up to the TRNC themselves and i respect your views on how diiferent TRNC is from UK , but in order for the TRNC to attract tourisim which is a vital part of the revenue , it needs to make changes fast unless it can rely on the casino tax revenue , and handouts .

JimmyG


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 900

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 17:14

Pipie, I agree that tourism has a vital part to play in both the present and future of the economy but whilst I can I am enjoying the relative peace & quiet of the here and now before the changes that will inevitabley occur should an agreement be reached and the direct flights that will follow such an agreement.

rocking


Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 421

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 17:19

I have been here for several elections and have seen them buy votes by paying for their weeks shopping, getting someone a job in civil service, now you would think that straight away they would realise 'these are crooks and will do the same in power' yet they still vote for these people Let us hope that the UBP has learnt a lesson from the past governments, but I fear they will inherit a massive debt. No one has the guts to go in and fire at least one-third or more of the civil servants. As I stated last week on a thread, the national airline with 5 planes, employs 800 staff. The outgoing Turkish Ambassador, 2 weeks ago, has told the TRNC to get their books in order, no more money is forthcoming - no wonder Talat and Soyer want an election in

April - let the next lot try and clear up the s---. At least UBP did not cripple businesses with ridiculous taxes. A friend importing second hand building equipment closed up, the duty he had to paywent from 35% to 85% in 2 months!!!!

JimmyG


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 900

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 17:24

Rocking - you couldn't make it up could you - if it wasn't so serious it would be seriously funny!!!

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 17:40

Jimmy G i understand your point of view , have a good life in the TRNC , it still holds special qualities .

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 17:59

Hi JimmyG



In my message 27, I wasn't venting my frustration has to how things are run in the TRNC and like you, I believe it is their country and we are merely guests.

but I am opposed to people not paying their taxes, when the government is short of money. I rent out my property and I pay my taxes on time every month. If I didn't do this, the tax office would be chasing me for their money. I think fair is fair and instead of chasing all of us expats, they should be chasing the Turkish Cypriot Builders and Developers for what they owe. Or is it a case of lets milk the British for what we can get? I love the TRNC and eventually want to retire there, I love the people and I hope I would eventually get used to the way they think and do things but I still think they are missing a golden opportunity to increase tourism and bring in badly needed cash.



The Butlers wife

JimmyG


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 900

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 18:21

Butler's wife - I don't disagree with anything you say and as guests we are still at liberty to offer our advice, assistance and even vent our frustrations when so many things are so clearly wrong, but sadly it seems to fall on deaf ears. I'm sure that we would all wish that it would change for the better. It seems such a contradiction that despite everything so many of us still love the place!!!

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 19:46

jimmy

its not the mindset of the people thats the problem its this goverments attitude.

i want my tc friends to stop suffering.

meet some of the disabled tc's here,and the elderly they are getting sod all help.

i bet you don't have an outside bathroom do you?

well some of our elderly friends do have!

its a disgrace in 2009.

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 20:34

Hi firestarter,



Do the turkish cypriots have anything like our council owned property or is it all privately owned? I don't suppose they have anything like our grant system to carry out much needed repairs and improvements either. I must admit I was quite shocked to read of your Turkish Cypriot elderly neighbours. When I hear of things like this, it makes me want to do something to help them. Where would you start to try and make a difference to their lives?



The Butlers wife

Cypfan


Joined: 10/10/2008
Posts: 104

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 20:45

Msg 35



"At least UBP did not cripple businesses with ridiculous taxes."



Maybe, but wasnit it Denktash's UBP who started retiring people in their 20s and giving them all these pensions and so created this crisis in the first place?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 21:17

thanks butlerwife

this is why i get so angry with people here.

after the war in 1974 the goverment built some new houses in our village, one of my elderly disabled friends lives in one, with an outside loo.

she probably wouldn't move house and has no room inside or out to upgrade as her daughter lives there as well caring for her.(unpaid )

they are very proud people.

the other elderly friend is getting on in years and also has an outside bathroom, my hubby is helping her son build a new bathroom extention , so she can have a little home comfort. she is at the point where she needs some home care, this is for the family to provide the goverment does nothing.

if we approach the subject they are embarrased.

many people live here with bellow standards life style but everyone just sees the new villa estates.

these people have been here throughout the war and this is how they are repaid!

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 21:36

If the TRNC is run on anythink like the Turkish mainland then a great deal of the money is going into certain peoples back pockets.It iswellknown that in Turkey money is the be all and end all of life..If you have the right amount of money you can have people misteriously dissappear...When I was there in the mid seventies you couldnt do anything with out having to grease somebodies palm and I bet it hasnt changed a lot over the years...

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 21:59

Firestarter....msg 43

Perhaps as a precondition of gaining planning permission,the developers should be forced by the government to sign up to improve the general infrastructure and communal spaces in the areas/villages where they propose to build?

We do it here in the UK.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
06/01/2009 23:00

wow

pipie ,batterboy has it bang on "this is cyprus" and i don,t want to rain on your parade or anyone elses for that matter,but you sound as if you all have the answers and you don,t.

a lot of london t/cs are moving back to the kktc ,young and old mostly because of the cost and the violence in london amongst many others,the problem is you don,t know what you got till it,s gone,and cyprus is worth hanging on to.

regards



musin

long live the kktc

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 00:16

re mess 1 - yes but look at the amny DVD shops - in fact almost one on every corner now..



What more could you want ?



Nick

PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 03:13

Musin i agree that TRNC is a haven for no violence and yes it is still slightly cheaper than the UK , but you have to face facts , either the TRNC stops in its tracks and stands still relying on less tourisim or it wakes up and starts encouraging instead of discouraging tourisim thats all some of us are saying. And yes you are right we have not got answers but we would like to help my expressing and debating our views .

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 09:41

Whispa. A very positive post. Totally in agreement with you.

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 13:39

Most mention money.

Message 1 points out how bad and lazy the cleaners are at Ercan.

They are absolutely useless.

Just change them now for some who arent that doesnt cost money just maagement stupidity. If they cant hack it then change them as well.

As for the number of people at CTA this shows how far behind the country is. They have overstaffing similar to pre thatcher Britain wher jobs for life and guaranteed jobsfor the boys and relatives wiped out quite a few industries.



Mentioning CTA reminds me that on Sat 20th Dec , 2 of their aircraft (both late) taxied into Manchester behind each other. An hour later the airport P.A. was asking not for the last 2 remaining passengers to go to gate 6 but for the crew to go to gate 6. They had lost them and couldnt board passengers until their return. M. Mouse airlines!

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
07/01/2009 14:41

musin re post 46

i don't disagree that lots of tc's are leaving london and coming here.

both tc families in my village who both arrived here last year and are already looking to leave.

one family is going back to the uk, reasons are education for their kids and not being able to earn any money running a business here.

the other guy is going to turkey, hes had enough full stop, he hates it here, and just can't cope.

i don't have a problem with it here, but neither of them seem to be able to cope with life here.

it is strange because both were born here and have families in our village.