Gaza, what now ?

kenny



Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 405

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 20:11

U N compound shelled today, all food and medical supplies

destroyed. Im not wanting a history lesson, im looking for

suggestions to end the killing.



Title edited as it originally referred to Paul Gascoigne, known as Gazza. Lem

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 20:16

New broom. And we all know what that means.



Mr Obamah! What are your proposals?



They will sue for peace, before 20/1/09.



Really sad isn't it? Why can'nt they give peace a chance?



wyn

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 20:18

RE msg 1, kenny: (...) U N compound shelled today, all food and medical supplies destroyed. (...)



===> Well, when Hamas would stop smuggling rockets and other armaments through their tunnels from Egypt... And start bringing in food to the suffering Palestinians..? Wouldn't be there an end to the killings?! Not so difficult to have some peace, eh?!!

kenny



Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 405

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 20:25

DC

the food and medical supplies were for the suffering Palestinians

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 20:28

Hi Wyn and Kenny Interior Minister Saeed Seyyam, his brother anf family killed in the air strike whilst the israeli the defence secretary said the shelling of the UN headquaters was a grave mistake. how many more graves. Wyn you are right but OB is going to have his work cut out, all europe must step up to the mark. how are you both xx

kenny



Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 405

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 20:32

original reports from Israel said they had come under fire

from the U N building, now they say it was an error !

david123


Joined: 07/07/2008
Posts: 393

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 20:52

Hi all,



There is only one point to this.



Stop firing rockets and they will stop.



I don't see them doing that, so to me Hamas are causing the suffering.



David

dobbo



Joined: 13/06/2007
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 20:57

Bloody hell when I read the title I thought what has he done now!

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 20:58

today the middle east has become even more dangerous ,iran has stated today that hamas will be the victors .

they have also said that britain and america are the backers for the israelies and will pay the price ,they are ready to die for the palestinians and have urged the rest of the islam world too follow.



dangerous times.



musin

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 21:15

RE msg 9, Musin M : (...) they are ready to die for the palestinians (...)



===>Isn't it about time to read that the government and the population of certain countries are ready to LIVE for (you name it)? Isn't it sickening to see all the poor misled people in certain countries running through the streets, shouting their war cries and shooting their Kalashnikovs?



Iran, in the Moslim world far away, "ready to die for the Palestinians". Iran, a country where recently a man was stoned (2009!!) and where women are treated as third class citizens... Is that the country to expect reasonable statements from?

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 22:20

And why has the rest of the civilised world got to bend or surrender to Islamic Dominationwith there archaic sytem of justice and treatment of other peoples.I am sure I will upsetone or two on here but I dont care.When the answer to this problem is for Hamas to stop firing there rockets and they will not ,but are prepared to sacrifice there own people in the name of "justice" it makes me extremely angry that other nations are blamed for there bloody stupidity and arrogance.I will support Israel as long as Hamas continue with there actions..

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 22:49

dc



calm down mate ,just telling it as it stands.



coachie



how about sitting down and talking and stop the killing ,a little twist here a little bend there ,we need peace in the world ,not war ,if we continue to play the blame game ,we all lose .

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 22:49

I am sorry but I believe that a lot of people on this forum don't understand how and when these problems started. After the second world war because of guilt about the holocaust. The west decided to make a state of Israel for all the European Jews. They did not consult with the Palestinians about this, they just went in and took their land and forced them into refugee camps. Before this Christians and Muslims and Jews lived happily side by side in Jerusalem.

The refuge camps are still there and there are many Palistinains still living in these camps. Lots of Palestininians went to Jordan and this country which has no oil or mineral wealth, welcomed them because they were muslim brothers and even though they were a financial burden, they are still there.

If this had happened to you, would you be happy? Of course Hamas is equally to blame but their situation with no way out, breeds fanatism.

I don't think there will be any change soon. Why? Because the Big Power America is full

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 22:51

of Jewish Senators, with lots of money. Why else have we not heard any voices of protest from across the water?





The Butlers wife

glw215


Joined: 02/04/2008
Posts: 178

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 22:57

By signing this petition we may send a message to these "Israelis" that we do not want to be associated with their killings of Palestinian children. Please sign at the link below.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Suspend-EU-Israel-Trade-Agreement

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 23:09

don,t be fooled into thinking that all jewish people are for this assault on gaza



i have jewish friends and they tell it how they see it .



israeli goverment have it wrong ,their words not mine.

Fred8


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 23:12

This conflict must be stopped and content of message is 15 positive in the sense of the objectives set by the intiator of this thread.



As usual the Davids, in line of the parot fashion propoganda by the Israels, immediately shoot off in attacking Hamas blinded by their army's specialisation in killing children (300) and women (100) building on their experiences of the past so many years in putting down opposition in the occupied territories. However, when faced with a modestly armed non-state actor they run with their tail behinds their legs such Hizbullah in 2006. But in this instant, the final solution' of the Gazans, have gone even further in their brutality by killing children, women, aid worker, medics, bombing UN positions, UN safe heavens, bombing the press, etc.



However,this isnot a thread as to who started thismess, but the only thing I will says is this: when the nazis ocupied europe, were for exmple the french resistance told not to tresist or obtain weapons?

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 23:21

It has not stopped rockets fired into what was their own land and

made things an awful lot worse. It makes me sick when I hear the

Israeli spokesmen/women saying they had no alternative because they

did. Whether we or they like it or not Hamas was voted in democratically

and it is not wise to refuse to talk to them. How stupid can the Israelis be

if they think it will turn Palestinians against Hamas. Quite the opposite is

happening. You would think the Israelis of all people would realise what is

involved in bombing helpless civilians in a ghetto, who have nowhere to run.

aripointer


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 189

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 23:23

Turkish troops are to be stationed on the Gaza - Egypt border. to stop the smuggling of arms into Gaza. BBC radio 4 news.

AP

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 23:24

Latest news, Hamas has offered ceasefire for one year, on basis Israelis withdraw within one week. Watch with interest. Pressure on Israel now I imagine immense.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 23:32

small question



i would be intrested in hearing who you guys think are going to rebuild gaza .





musin

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 23:40

Perhaps all those builders in North Cyprus who can't sell properties anymore.....



Lem

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 23:47

Good idea Lem , I imagine thousands of ex TRNC Turkish construction workers back in Turkey looking for work.. Travel overland possible?

Fred8


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 23:43

Phylray no argument as to what you say except that I would add that right after the democratic elections in Gaza the strangulating ;blockade was imposed and one does not have to be an expert in rocket science to see why Hamas insists that the blockade must be lifted as part of a cease fire even if arms supplies are stopped.



I will also echo your thoughts and say that for decades the Jews have played on european symphathies because of what the Nazis did but they are now in turn doing the same thing

Fred8


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 23:44

Latest: Secrtary Rice: has telephoned Israeli Def Minister and told hime to be more careful in targetting and avoid such incidents as hitting UN campounds!!!

(of course Israel can go ahead and targetting children and women)

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 03:08

Yes, it's v. sad and depressing. And it's given chance for all extremist

Islamists to gain more recruits and we are in the front line for our/U.S

goverment's one-sided support of Israel. Yet mor horrors to come I fear.

maybemike


Joined: 12/01/2009
Posts: 188

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 07:37

Hello to the butlers wife, and I fully agree with you, and this is exactly what 'our dee' was saying when she was leapt on, fired on and had her thread closed a while back. I am sure she will in to say her piece as well.

















maybe

Lincsman



Joined: 02/04/2008
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 13:27

I am deeply troubled by the situation in Gaza, I particularly feel sorry for the Palestinians who are used as political pawns. It does strike me however that the tactics used by Hamas(and others) are never ever going to work. Israel has always fought fire with fire, if you fire rockets at their towns and cities, what do you expect? It seems that the tactic of Hamas is to sacrifice the lives of the Palestinian people to turn world opinion against Israel(but Israel isn't bothered about world opinion and never has been) They(Hamas) may have a strong case against Israel not opening the borders, but again who can blame Israel when the crossings have been used in the past to send over suicide bombers. Now if I was the marketing man selling the plight of the Palestinian people to the world it sould be one of the easiest "sells" in the world because of what they have suffered and the injustices of the land situation. The trouble is that most of world doesn't care because they think( TBC)

Lincsman



Joined: 02/04/2008
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 13:30

that they have brought it most of this on themselves.

Lincsman



Joined: 02/04/2008
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 13:33

Sorry, should have ended- The trouble is most of the world doesn't care,because they think that they have brought most of this on themselves.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 14:04

Mussim ..I agree with your statement about sitting down and talking,but how can you talk to someone whose only purpose in life is to destroy you.That is abig obstacle to get over before youcan even think of talking.Israel no more wants this conflict with Hamas .hezbollah or even Iran. they just want to be left alone to get on with lives and live in peace with all the Arab/Islamic nations. My only critiscism is that Hamas dont seem to be able to understand the easy way to solve this horrendous situation is to STOP FIRING ROCKETS INTO ISRAEL...Then and only then will the Israelis want to discuss peace...As every one says ,it is not rocket science,but good old fashioned common sense.If I threw a stone at you Musim and you threw a brick back at me I would soon stop throwing stones..

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 14:38

Coachie,



Do you think that if Hamas stops firing rockets into Israel, Israel will give the Palestinians back their homeland? This is what this continuing conflict is all about and untill the land issue is resolved there will never be peace.



Also a very new development that has come to light in the last few days, is that oil and gas have been found off the coast of Gaza, now you don't think this could possibly have anything to do with this do you?



The Butlers wife.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 16:27

whether you like it or not Israel is arecognised state and as such we all have to accept that,Palestianians included.They choose not to, hence the conflict.Until they get it into there heads that it is not going to change then they might get somewhere. As for the oil and gas "developement" i will wait and see how that developsbearing in mind that oil has been found off the coast of Cyprus but it maynot be practical to extract it. Yes I do believe that if Hamas stopped there rocket campaign that Israel would have to take part in talks or else they would upset the rest of the world totally including the USA..

Fred8


Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 19:44

Ref to message 32 & 34, once again the Israeli and American view of the conflict is floated, an idea as bankrupt as the the the current brutal assualt on Gaza. The people of Gaza have been under brutul occopation, subjugation and strangulation for the last 41 years. Yet the same mantra is repeated that the cause of the conflict is the firing of rockets at the Isreal's over the the 8 YEARS OR SO.So for decades the Palestinians had tried to " get it into there heads' not to use violence but it did not yield results. To return to my earlear anology, the Israelie occupation is more brutal than the Nazis. But did Churchill tell the French resistance to talk to the Nazis and not resist? of course not!! Churchil and the US sent in the SOS and supplied arms to the resistance. The moral bankruptcy of the west when it comes Palestinians, the hopelessness of the Palestanians in face of Israeli brutality surprassing even the Nazis leaves the Palestanians no option but fight to asymetrically

Nastynipper


Joined: 08/06/2008
Posts: 171

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 19:54

jimmy 5 bellies and spear chuckers

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 22:01

Hi Nastynipper,



I know that jimmy 5 bellies was a friend of Paul Gasgion but I don't know about spear chuckers. Can you explain the relevance of this post? Or am I missing something?





The Butlers wife