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biker-babe


Joined: 30/12/2008
Posts: 75

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 18:59

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Message 1 of 125 in Discussion

Went to view a rental property on Turtle Bay this afternoon.



The maintenance charge was 60 per month and there are 408 appartments.



Thats 24,500 PER MONTH in maintenance charges.



Do you think they may be ripping people off ?





Suzie



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 19:03

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Message 2 of 125 in Discussion

Suzie...it's a bigger cash cow than selling the properties themselves!



That's why it's important when buying NOT to get tied up in a Maintenance deal with the developer.

Try to go for a 1 or 2 year contract with the option after that for the residents to form a committee and put it out for competitive tender.



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 20:27

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Message 3 of 125 in Discussion

no i actually think that is a fair charge.

you should check out some of the fees charged in the uk!



michelle3012


Joined: 07/11/2008
Posts: 578

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 22:26

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Message 4 of 125 in Discussion

Thats way too expensive, we pay 250 a year, we have one pool and communal grounds, this is run by a committee so no middle man to pay.

I appreciate there are more facilities on that site but i would say 40 per month was nearer to what it should be.



You can not compare prices paid in the UK, thats a silly argument!



irishwrath


Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 02:36

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Message 5 of 125 in Discussion

Greetings biker babe



As a tbv owner I can tell you it is to much, even more so when you also have to pay for things on top that you were told were covered.



When you also consider the developer paid them 160,000 on top of our maintenance last year and they used our deposit money ( without our permission or knowledge ) its frightening to say the least.



Add to this the fact that they took the bulbs out of the path lights to save money, Its a death trap, as injured owners will attest.



And more of the same to come, as we are being forced to keep them by the developer Kensington Development Group, who have hung us owners out to dry.



A very disillusioned TBV owner



kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 08:24

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Message 6 of 125 in Discussion

ref 5.

why are you forced to use them by developer?,has the developer and maintenance company signed something between themselves in your contract ,for say first 2 years ?



if they aint doing their job and its to expemsive ,stick together and flirt them off



kav



Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 15:35

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Message 7 of 125 in Discussion

Maintenance companies are there to make money ( ie get rich ) I do not believe there are many that are run as a charity ( ie for no profit )



This charge will only get higher, suggest you read your contract...very carefully..BEFORE SIGNING!



If possible do the maintenance as a "owners consortium"...but you may have to chase payments.



Cheap property will often ( not always ) be recouped by maintenance charges.



truffles808


Joined: 16/10/2007
Posts: 183

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 15:55

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Message 8 of 125 in Discussion

We are also TBV owners and my husband was one of the people injured at Christmas for falling over cutting his leg open and smashing his face on the concrete path. This was because it was pitched black as not one of the street or path lights were switched on - maintenance company are short of money and cost cutting.

I have raised the same question on our forum earlier today:

If the maintenance contract was agreed and signed by two companies[developer and the said maint. comp] That the said maint comp is now trading under a new name [presumably the old comp has gone bust] that a new contract would have had to be drawn up and the old one would be null and void as the maint. comp is no longer? Same wolf but different clothing. Can we as owners vote that this wolf cannot renew and we source alternative maintenance company? It all's smells to me;0(



Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 16:14

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Message 9 of 125 in Discussion

Santa-Fe wanted 400 for 6 months at olive grove lapta for maintenance charges. The pool was empty the gardens bare and the management company was run by Santa-Fe's maintenance manager a.k.a. "The Home Doctor". Does that seem value for money i think not..........



Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 16:17

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Message 10 of 125 in Discussion

Perhaps changing to a new company is just a way to put up charges?...at 24.5k per month, hardly likely to have gone bust?!!



If you have your deeds, What would happen if you ALL refused to pay?



could then pay for your own maintence, I agree with kav...take control, do not be bullied!



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 16:19

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Message 11 of 125 in Discussion

Stewart



"If you have your deeds"



That's the killer line isn't it?



Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 16:24

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Message 12 of 125 in Discussion

Yes, why not get the deeds by saying that you will not pay any further maintenance charges untill you have them?....surely they are due?



truffles808


Joined: 16/10/2007
Posts: 183

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 16:25

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Message 13 of 125 in Discussion

We have a very good, strong and very determined new committee that represent the owners, who are doing their up most to make sure we are not bullied or pushed over.

The problem is that the gatepost keeps being moved! As soon as they close to resolving an issue, it incurs more issues.... very frustrating but I presume its all a smoke screen to stop the truth coming out.

Yes you would of thought that there would be a pot on money available considering how much revenue they should be receiving a month, and our deposit money on average 1k an apartment - some major money involved here.

Unfortunately, to my knowledge non of us have received our deeds yet and only a handful of owners have received their ptp.

I have read somewhere that the site can only be divided out for the deeds once all the properties have been sold - if this is the case, we may never get our deeds! Also the developer has used holding them back as a threat to owners who do not pay their KDV.



Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 17:01

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Message 14 of 125 in Discussion

Has the properties been registered?....thus goverment involvement?

Only a suggestion, but why not register the property ( cost to do it yourself is about 20 and a couple of hours ) solicitors charge about 200 - 300, could get a discount if all of you registered at the same time?



If you all refused to pay the maintenance charge, you would then be in charge of the goal posts..



He may hold them back, but you do not need them to resell, you do not need them to be the legal owner!....VAT will be payable when the site is finished, the developer will need to pay this, via yourselves, suggest you hold this back untill you have the deeds, this will cause him big problems?!



truffles808


Joined: 16/10/2007
Posts: 183

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 17:09

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Message 15 of 125 in Discussion

Thank you Stewart for your advise - I will put this to the committee.

I take it you have had similar problems?



keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 17:15

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Message 16 of 125 in Discussion

Msg 14,

I don't know if you have any legal training, or experience of the way that property law works in TRNC, but I would be interested to know the exact basis of your statement: -

"you do not need them to resell, you do not need them to be the legal owner!"

As far as I am aware, the legal owner is the person whose name the Kochan is in - it doesn't matter what has been signed, or what has been paid - if the Kochan is still in their name, they can throw you out in the street - legally! - Then try suing them in the civil court if you like, and see where that gets you...

As for selling property without a Kochan, the standard advice to buyers now is to only buy completed property from Private Owners, where they have actually got the Kochan in their own name. You TRY selling without, and then come back and tell me that you don't need a Kochan to sell.

I'm sorry if the tone of this seems rude, and if you have proof, fair enough, but there is a lot of misinformation stated as fact.



michelle3012


Joined: 07/11/2008
Posts: 578

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 17:20

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Message 17 of 125 in Discussion

As a committee and owner on the site, you should ask the Management Co to look at the BOOKS and all the paperwork to see exactly whats come in and whats gone out! I might make interesting reading!



irishwrath


Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 17:41

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Message 18 of 125 in Discussion

Greeting all

We have been asking to see the books as per contract from the date specified in our contract.



We were given a one page xml sheet that proved nothing, we have not been allowed sight of the official books.



The other problem is that sharon opened a second company, so anything that makes a profit go's into that one, anything that makes a loss go's into sharon, so tbv owners have to pay.



Kensington Development Group Know of the missing deposit money and other problems our committee are having to deal with and are still not getting behind the owners.



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 17:47

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Message 19 of 125 in Discussion

michelle

i suggest only the silly would buy a freehold property on exchange land and pay a maintenance charge!

prices here are little different to the uk! so why would maintenance charges be less?



sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 18:18

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Message 20 of 125 in Discussion

Once again it is all about how the maintenance company is contracted if you have a total service fee then the MC could say that then is nothing to do with the owners, as you pay them a Fee ie 60 for a service and they clean the pools , sweep the floors tend gardens etc etc.,



If you run your site as a Fund under management completely different story as you have more control as owners.



As long as you have a Management Companies running a total service fee they can spend as they wish not as owners wish and are not very interested as long as things look farily ok !! the rest goes in their pockets. Thats why they never show proper accounts lets face facts here anyone can do 'creative accounting' on a spreadsheet with out proer records. A proper management company should have a file with all receipts of every outgoing and if run as a fund thats exactly what does happen. It is also as said above about getting control of your investments !



keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 18:43

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Message 21 of 125 in Discussion

Message 19,

Ad the minimum wage here is just over 1,000 TL a month, and people are foeced to work large amounts of unpaid overtime, I don't think that you can say that prices are the same as in the UK!

- Well, not to the locals anyway - if they can get 'rich' expats to pay UK prices they will...



the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 18:45

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Message 22 of 125 in Discussion

Hi Keith ms16



I think you are wrong in saying you need your title deed in order to sell. You can sell without your title deeds but you do need the builder/developers co-operation in this, as they need to sign the transfer papers. This is where many problems arise because alot of developers like to manage their own sites and if you don't pay your service charges. They will not co-operate in signing the transfer papers. This is not the only thing that developers will, what is in effect blackmail do. They can with hold signing over the title deeds to you, unless you are free from arrears with your service charge. Just because you have received your ptp it doesn't mean a thing. It only means you have got permission to purchase that property, it doesn't mean you will get it.



The Butlers wife



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 18:53

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Message 23 of 125 in Discussion

keithcaley

labour might be slightly cheeper but the cost of running a pool ect are very expensive here.

most developments in the uk don't have pools they provide only basic maintenance and charge more.

at the end of the day if you signed the contract they have you, simple.



joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 18:56

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Message 24 of 125 in Discussion

Truffles808 re your message 13. I believe the law has changed and as long as you have your PTP you can apply for a share kocan which basically registers your name at the Land Registry as owning 1/300th (or however many properties there are) share in the existing title deed. In due course when the site is completed and parcellised you then pay a nominal amount for your own individual title deed to be issued. I would suggest you speak to your Advocate and ask them to explain the process to you and get the ball rolling.



sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 19:10

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Message 25 of 125 in Discussion

joand jelly (love your piccie of doggie btw)



is correct we were told this by our advocate this week, however some are reluctant to go down this road...... I wonder why?



I think the developers are quite right about withholding title if you havent kept up with your maintenance payments , we cannot have it all our own way can we.



Regards



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 19:33

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Message 26 of 125 in Discussion

also sienna

those not paying their maintence fees are de valuing everyone esles property with a poorly maintained site.



irishwrath


Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 20:25

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Message 27 of 125 in Discussion

If sharon had not spent 10,000 on a web page ( that no one asked for ) and 15,000 on a car from the owners deposits account, maybe they would have more money to play with now.



Sharon have zero investment at tbv, sharon used owners deposit money as set up money, owners are still owed in the region of 80,000.



Sharon are a spin off of Ariel group so why did Ariel group not pay the set up costs.



RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 20:55

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Message 28 of 125 in Discussion

Less than 10% of owners not paying does not affect a site that has always been unfinished and untidy. It does affect the amount of profit or fiddle money to be milked by the "management company"

Msg 1 at the start of this debate just says it all.

Oh and i forgot the small matter of the 360,000.00 surety account, silly me.......

maybe i should start a management company.



sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 21:46

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Message 29 of 125 in Discussion

With all due respect to you guys on Turtle Bay and don't get me wrong I sympathise with you........ but sorry if your set up is a total service fee they can do what they like with your money they don't have to consult you whether they have a gateman, a website, how often they clean the pool thats how it is,cars deisel for the cars etc etc Unfortunately thats where you guys go round in circles it will NEVER change while under this system !!



I don't agree with it ,but that's how it is, and how they operate all the way to the bank until you change it and take charge, you will got blue in the face or red with rage over everything they do..... but they wont change !!

until you change them



Regards



irishwrath


Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 21:59

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Message 30 of 125 in Discussion

They do have to consult us when its our deposit money they are spending, it is not the maintenance monies we are talking about, our contract is very clear as to how much of and how this money can be used.



They have broken both those rules.



sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 22:07

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Message 31 of 125 in Discussion

If that is the case they surely are in breach of contract and therefore you need legal assistance I would say, it seems there is aa lot of your guys money at stake



It is appalling how these peoeple operate, they almost make people feel like tenants in your own property don't they , I think some MC actually begin to believe they own the site, i think it is because most people are only visitng every now and they believ they can get away with it, shocking - I think people need to bite back ! and hard



Best wishes



Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 22:09

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Message 32 of 125 in Discussion

msg 27,



"Sharon are a spin off of Ariel group so why did Ariel group not pay the set up costs."



Is this an Israeli company with those names?



RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 22:23

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Message 33 of 125 in Discussion

Good posts sienna.

The Israeli developers we all bought off appointed the Israeli management company.

Nothing against Israeli people but you dont have 2 B a proffessor do you? just an accountant...



sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 22:39

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Message 34 of 125 in Discussion

I truly wish you all well I hope some day you get this sorted out and come to North Cyprus to relax in your apartment wihout fear of the next bill droppingon your door mat good wishes to you all on Turtle Bay



Regards



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 00:30

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Message 35 of 125 in Discussion

michelle3012 please could you E-mail me on abkellis@hotmail.com



The home buyers pressure group has information on selling a property with or witout deeds



punk rocker


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 08:50

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Message 36 of 125 in Discussion

This subject is continually debated, and it always turns to TBV, alas we are stuck in a trap but it is doing no good bleating about it on these boards, the title of the thread was that the poster thought 60 a month was too much to pay for site maintenance, well it's not if we get a good service for our money as fire started says, biker babe unfortunately did an elementary sum and went WOW look at all that money being spent, but to PROPERLY run a site the size of TBV you will need to have a large staff of say 20 people at average wage of 700 per month that alone is 14k before the morons jump down the throat the minimum wage is 1200tl then there is the provident fund and insurance every month which brings it to 700, then there is a lot of other costs, its not about how much we are paying, but how much is being mis appropriated. All this codswollop about funds under management is ridiculous as unless a management company can make decent money they will not touch a site FACT



punk rocker


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 08:56

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Message 37 of 125 in Discussion

And believe it, you will see it happening soon as there is an estate agent trying to do it at the moment and they are already trying to offload it as it's too cost heavy and too much hassle, also the prices of commodities to the site will also rise so that the agents can make some more money, the quality of service will fall as well because the costs of travel are beginning to bite, watch this space



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 09:31

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Message 38 of 125 in Discussion

Punk rocker .



Before you comment about other sites other than your own ,

Why don't you do your home work and talk to some of these compex owners on how they are getting things right .

They have found a way of tendering the running of there complex to a company who is not in there to rip owners off , a company who works with owners where acounts are clearly visable , and all owners have input on the running of there own site .

Some of these rip off maintenence companies are already aware that owners are not going to put up with unfair charges, no proper contracts , and no receipts in situ for owners to see exactly where owners money is being spent .

It is only a matter of time when these rip of maintenance companies are rumbled , just you watch them jumping ship .

There is still a viable way of running mainteneance companies , they just have to be fair and work with owners , the M/C who take no notice will soon be on there bikes so to speak .

It will just be a matter of time .



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 09:34

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Message 39 of 125 in Discussion

Punk rocker .

Why dont you talk to these owners on the complex you are refering to and give feedback to this thread ?



the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 11:45

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Message 40 of 125 in Discussion

Hi All,



This thread seems to be all about TBV and your maintenance charges and how you don't seem to be getting value for money. Last June my neighbour and I visited your site, we were on a mission to see if we could find any sites worse than ours. Where we pay 110 per month. Guess what, we couldn't find any. Turtle Bay came out tops. Your landscaping is beautifull and compared to our site it looked like paradise. You have plenty of facilities and if a lot of the apartments are not sold, or have been bought by investors who will not pay their maintenance charges. Then the money that is going into the fund is being well spent in my opinion.



The Butlers wife



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 12:30

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Message 41 of 125 in Discussion

Good positive post the butler .



However has TURTLE BAY got up to date accounts they can see ? do they have a defined contract ? these are so important for all sites to have .



Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 12:37

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Message 42 of 125 in Discussion

dear Truffles



I have a "few" properties throughout NC....I have experiance with developers...inc Israel developers....in my opinion they are the worst.



Suggest you contact a solicitor, perhaps to give them notice?



May I suggest you talk to 2 / 3 solicititors to get a feel for what could be done, suggest Naomi at Naomi Memhet & partners ( details on her website ) as one of them?



I will be arriving on the 2nd Feb if you wish to discuss more?



sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 12:40

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Message 43 of 125 in Discussion

Maintenance Company's thrive on comments like message 40 looks can be desspetive - just becasue your plants and blooming doesn't make the accounting correct - some would say they should be be blooming wiht all that amount of money going into the pot !!!



Groundstaff are normally pretty good on the complexes, as the locals do pride themselves in their work - its what as Pipie points out what is going on in the creative accounts department that matters !



Anyone can stick plants in and water them ! then every looks good from the outside



Regards



truffles808


Joined: 16/10/2007
Posts: 183

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 12:52

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Message 44 of 125 in Discussion

mess 41 - that is precisely what in the main worry for TBV owners is. There is nobody who does not disagree with paying their maintenance fees or argue the amount, its how it is being used.

As mentioned on previous messages the monthly income from the fees, but we do not have any street lights or path lights lit at night, the heated pool is not heated because it cost too much to run [no investment in an efficient heated pump or solar covers] pool conditions in busier months are a health risk, lack of bins, patio furniture, the list could go on. Basically what we were sold as facilities on the site we are not receiving. That reminds me, over 1000 was spent on diesel for the heated pool - but it has never heated.......????!!!!!

Basically, no one on TBV would be moaning if the the maintenance company kept to their side of the deal as we have in paying the monthly fees. The trust / confidence has been lost.



stusimpson


Joined: 06/08/2007
Posts: 178

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 12:55

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Message 45 of 125 in Discussion

Can any TBV owner clarify the following:



Is a solicitor already being paid to collectively act for you with regard breaches in the way your money is being appropriated.?



Have you managed to get access to contact details of every owner?



Who at KDG is your point of contact regarding dealing with it?



Surely injuries based on lighting deficencies because they have no money can be legally challenged.If my child did the same I would stick 10k in the bank and sue the arse of them full stop,that would be one thing I wouldn't put up with even if they hadn't been in dispute about monies.



Cheers Stu



irishwrath


Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 12:55

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Message 46 of 125 in Discussion

The grass looks great does it not, next time you go and have a look at tbv, have a walk on said grass barefoot and the see what you think, the ground was not removed of stones and rubble just grassed over, a friend needed five stitches in his heal.



It looks very good round the office and pool one the rest of the site does not quite match up, I agree it will be a very nice site when its finished, if it gets finished.



Do not think for a moment I do not love tbv, The wife and I love it and have had some very good times and met some great people, Its the constant lies, deceit demands for money on top of the maintenance from sharon that is taking the shine off.



Its got to the point where if I could cut my losses and run I would and not give crooks any more money and if KD are not involved they are letting it happen.



sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 13:00

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Message 47 of 125 in Discussion

Its not just TBV that owners are being decieved its just that those on that complex voice their opinions loudest, nothing wrong with that, but you all need to take them to task and change things and let them know YOU onw the site not them. Its hard work and takes a lot of time but can be achieved



Regards



truffles808


Joined: 16/10/2007
Posts: 183

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 13:10

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Message 48 of 125 in Discussion

Stewart - hear what you are saying and thanks for your help. I think the wheels have been put in motion.

Jo



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 13:22

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Message 49 of 125 in Discussion

Have i misunderstood the complex here re TURTLE BAY I visit TRNC regulaly and on every occasion the street lights have been on THE TB i am refering to

ii is situated opposite the golf course next to Turquoise bay .



Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 13:24

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Message 50 of 125 in Discussion

Dear truffles

and to think, I gave my developer a hard time because he wanted to charge me 25 a month!!.....( it is now 18 per month for next 2 years )...good luck



irishwrath


Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 13:27

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Message 51 of 125 in Discussion

greeting pipie



Yes that is tbv, the lights have been off for quite a while, even the pool lights. I think that is madness, how long before some on drowns.



truffles808


Joined: 16/10/2007
Posts: 183

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 13:29

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Message 52 of 125 in Discussion

street lights [not all of them switched on]were turned off at 10pm and the path lights were never not put on.

3 weeks over christmas and new year - and as i have already stated before, my husband was one of the people who was injured due to NO lighting at 10.15pm.



truffles808


Joined: 16/10/2007
Posts: 183

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 13:30

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Message 53 of 125 in Discussion

path lights were never on i meant to say.



irishwrath


Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 15:36

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Message 54 of 125 in Discussion

PM sent stu



stusimpson


Joined: 06/08/2007
Posts: 178

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 17:29

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Message 55 of 125 in Discussion

Thanks got it!



Truffles ,what exactly are you doing about it,surely its a health and safety issue and if injuries have happened I'm sure KDG won't want to get sued ,are the lights back on now,was it a one off.



Did you complain,if so what happened?



Stu



Barrovians1


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 25

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 18:09

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Message 56 of 125 in Discussion

Currently at TBV, some of the lights are on at night, but it is still dangerous walking about the place at night, especially when you have had a good swallie in the Kings bar.



Bob



punk rocker


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 23:56

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Message 57 of 125 in Discussion

DEAREST PIPIE

you constantly get confused dont you, and you constantly get it wrong you do so love to get your tuppenny worth in, and you constantly stir and create inuendo, I personally KNOW a lot of what is going on in turtle bay and on the sea terra sites and I know a lot of people on your sites as well, I also KNOW that everything is not as rosy as people think at sea terra esentepe.

your message 49 is proof positive that you do not know your facts, you have been known to tell people on your site at tatlisu how great the other place you own on was in comparison to it, then go and tell other people at Esentepe how great the tatlisu place is in comparison

Your message 38 is also interesting, it would seem that you have personal experience of these RIP OFF maintenance companies, please elaborate and name them, you have 2 places as is well documented on here, are the maintenance companies on those two sites ripping people off, please do tell us



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 01:17

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Message 58 of 125 in Discussion

Punk rocker .

You may know what goes on at Turtle bay , so what , other people can comment , can they not , i do not apologise if i have ruffled your feathers , hit a nerve have i ?



Where have i got things confused ? where have i got things wrong ?



What load of dribble you talk , you know this !!! you know that ,!!!! you sound like someone off coronation street .



if you were to put more effort in trying to sort your own complex out , instead of coming on this forum attacking others who want to speak there mind , you might actually do something positive . although that is doubtful looking at your past history .



i do not need to name rip off maintenance companies ,

they will name thereselves in the not to distant future when they either jump ship or get voted off there complexes .



I just hope someone comes down on you like a ton of bricks for spreading idle gossip .

what goes round comes round i say lets hope it does with you .



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 01:58

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Message 59 of 125 in Discussion

punk rocker

you wrote



All this codswollop about funds under management is ridiculous unless a management company can make decent money they will not touch a site FACT

YES , You are nearly correct with your comment above , what you failed to say is that some M/C are not happy with making a profit they get greedy and try and dictate there rules without defining a contract , setting out there obligations etc , but these M/C will soon have to clean up there act , just a matter of time .



Punk rocker

research fund then comment ,a fund is a benefit for owners .

any sensible person will agree here , unless you are a side kick for management !!!



punk rocker


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 07:50

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Message 60 of 125 in Discussion

I think the nerve that has been hit is very obvious to all following this thread, but yet again we digress perhaps it would be wise for you with all your worldly experience to put your money where the mouth is and set up a management company, then all the world will see just how great you are, you have got things wrong about TBV, it is not as great as you have many times said, ask irishwrath, and any one of over two thirds of TBV owners !!!!!, you have got confused about the lights, ask any one of these people again incl truffles message 52, you have cot confused about looks of places, how many times have you sung the praises of TBV, looks dont always make for a well run project !!!!!!!

I have never spread idle gossip, I state facts, and leave the gossip to those who come in with their one liners on nearly every thread

You were well told some months ago when you were crowing about TBV to watch this space, again I say watch this space for other more serious developments.



BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 08:51

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Message 61 of 125 in Discussion

When we first moved to TRNC we had Digiturk installed but of course no Eastenders or Corination Street. How would we cope? Well we have threads like the above. Dont forget to tune in for tonights episode. Cant wait.



sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 09:39

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Message 62 of 125 in Discussion

I have watched these boards for many months Punkrocker why do you have to get so personal!



I know several on the sites you are talking about and they are very happy now they have a new management company and it is being conducted properly thank you, so you are completely wrong - people are only trying to advise you how to change on TBV as you are unhappy with your MC



Regards



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 11:37

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Message 63 of 125 in Discussion

Exactly sienna thankyou .



I do not wish to attack you Punk rocker i just have pointed out in the past that Turtle bay appears to look nice , this is what we seewhen we drive around the complex what on earth is wrong with that .?



I understand that you may have problems with management , but my feedback was just on how the Turtle bay looked from my obseravtions

.is that not allowed in your book ?



I also point out my suggestions on ways forward that would help both management and owners to compromise in order for both to benefit from a well run happy complex . adhering to a defined contract , this would put pay to rip of companies

What is wrong with that ?



truffles808


Joined: 16/10/2007
Posts: 183

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 12:04

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Message 64 of 125 in Discussion

The landscaping at TBV is being funded by the developer and they are paying the landscapers to do the planting - this is nothing to do with the maintenance fees or the M/C except for their staff who go around the site sweeping the paths and raking the soil of weeds.



sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 12:29

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Message 65 of 125 in Discussion

As I have said before smoke screens and without a doubt ground force workers doing a good job - it is what goes on behind the scenes that you need to keep your eye.



Although even owners see the grass growing the flowers blooming the sun shining and the birds signing and thats all some are interested in, not what really is going on in offices and bank accounts and yes creative accounting spreadsheets !



Regards



irishwrath


Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 13:39

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Message 66 of 125 in Discussion

Well said sienna !



Fighting between ourselves is going to get us nowhere, we need to band together as owners no matter what site we are on.



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 14:06

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Message 67 of 125 in Discussion

I agree trishwrath .

well said .



truffles808


Joined: 16/10/2007
Posts: 183

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 15:37

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Message 68 of 125 in Discussion

There have been discussions between some owners with regards to some media pressure? Expose the naughty companies for all to read.

As we all now have a list of approved Solicitors to use in TRNC, why not organise an approved m/c who are answerable to a board for licensing. If they do not adhere to the rules [proper book keeping for one] customer feed back once a year for customer satisfaction...they get struck off the list and their license removed.

I do not know if there is anything like this already in use?



redtom


Joined: 30/12/2008
Posts: 116

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 20:15

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Message 69 of 125 in Discussion

No Lights on at TBV because of cutbacks But hey guess what, all phase two owners are still on free electric.



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
21/01/2009 01:26

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Message 70 of 125 in Discussion

truffles 808 A very good post and yes it would be good to get this sort of thing in situ .

In the meantime it is up to owners to get together as there are strength in numbers .

M/C Do have an obligation to produce accounts /receipts etc some M/C resist ,these m/c are the ones that must realze that owners have a right to see a breakdown for what they pay for . it is simply common sense ,





Punk rocker .

Would you be predicting management walking off site away from there obligations re watch this space ? just curious .



punk rocker


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
21/01/2009 08:03

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Message 71 of 125 in Discussion

Sienna

Message 62 apologies if you read my posts as getting personal its not intentional, my message 36 was not personal, but this pipie made it personal aiming at me in message 38 'before i comment on other sites other than my own' Gawd she comments on everything !!! she tells ME to do my homework, and makes some very confusing observations, she aims at me again in post 39 !!!, and again in post 70, she seems to be on some kind of witch hunt but as with her many posts in the past which you will see as you follow this board very closely, she never names names, so all we can assume is that she is just a person with a problem but is too worried to give actual facts or name names, can you make sense of her last paragraph ?, because it baffles me,? firestarter message 26 spot on.

however it now only remains for me to say as a lot of others have said, good bye, good luck, enjoy cutting each other up, I will not be back this board has really turned so nasty, UK feel bad factor !!



maybemike


Joined: 12/01/2009
Posts: 188

Message Posted:
21/01/2009 08:08

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Message 72 of 125 in Discussion

re maintaince charges, was you not aware of these charges before you bought, or have you just worked them out.?



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
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Message Posted:
21/01/2009 08:38

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Message 73 of 125 in Discussion

Punk rocker .

We agree to differ the end .



sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
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Message Posted:
21/01/2009 08:46

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Message 74 of 125 in Discussion

Message 72 I do believe those that pay are happy to pay maintenance it is not the paying it is the transparency of the management companies. Owners are worried about contastant 'extra' payements' on how that maintenance is spent and how they tackle non-payers,some will not even inform the owners how many are not paying strange ! as said the owners that do pay are subsidising those that do not and cut backs ie lights are switched off and other services cut due to lack of funds because of them.



I will reiterate take control !



Punkrocker/ Pipie may I suggest sticking to the subject and stop squabbling as I do believe you are actually, on some issues, thinking in tandem.



play nicely !!!



Regards



Barrovians1


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 25

Message Posted:
21/01/2009 09:02

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Message 75 of 125 in Discussion

Maybemike



Everybody on the site was aware of the maintenance charges before we bought. What we couldn't foresee was a hike of 35% in the 1st year, and talk of it going up again. Neither could we foresee maintenance deposits that cannot be accounted for, The maintenance manager setting up a web site for 10 grand, and him buying a motor out of our dough for 15 grand.



Bob.



sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
21/01/2009 09:19

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Message 76 of 125 in Discussion

Message 75 this will always be the case they can spend the money on what they want as you are paying for a total service fee - that then becomes their money - this is the point you are missing on TBV it will never change until you change the way it is - they will always call the shots while under this system



I do not for one minute think this is right or proper but until you understand then you cannot move forward



Regards



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
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Message Posted:
21/01/2009 10:13

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Message 77 of 125 in Discussion

It it helps we had a UK meeting last year it was a really good meeting where all owners had the chance to say exactly there thoughts .



I would highly recommend indiuvidual sites trying to do this , owners who could not attend were kept informed by using the sites own forum .



RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
21/01/2009 11:38

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Message 78 of 125 in Discussion

You`re right sienna, that`s whats happening. A rosie picture was painted when people first bought and now all these little traps are being sprung and tricks unearthed. We read the contract what is deemed to be the obvious way and they read it differently obviously to their benefit. It would never stand up in an English court or European court of law but things are different and unique in NC.

The communications from the "parent companies" we receive in an attempt to defend their actions or answer our questions are to say the least bizarrely confusing, the latest one yesterday-complete drivel. I dont know if it`s their translation or more waffle!!

To say that their company has gone skint and they are losing money they seem ultra keen to keep their grip on things, any other business in that position would have walked by now.

These are my opinions and others i communicate with to discuss the matter.

I do not post to to cause any kind of split, irritate people or sensationalise.



sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
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Message Posted:
21/01/2009 11:55

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Message 79 of 125 in Discussion

Redsnapper you too have hit the nail on the head t



'hou does protest to much' springs to mind - they all seem to bleat the same tune about not making money but are desparate to carry on ! you are not alone there - where are therr budget and forecast oh dear shall I stop swearing !



your comments above capture it all

To say that their company has gone skint and they are losing money they seem ultra keen to keep their grip on things, any other business in that position would have walked by now.



Regards



truffles808


Joined: 16/10/2007
Posts: 183

Message Posted:
21/01/2009 12:19

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Message 80 of 125 in Discussion

Sooo, do we all hold out and pay nothing then they will have to go eventually?? I think most of us have resigned to the fact most of our deposit money has gone missing anyway. We have always paid our maintenance , but this current situation we feel reticent to do so now.



irishwrath


Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
21/01/2009 13:01

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Message 81 of 125 in Discussion

KD are telling people its only a hand full of owners that are not happy on tbv, to me that is a untruth.



So any owner who thinks sharon is doing a good job at a fair price and are trustworthy, please pipe up post and tell us, and please state your reasons.



Any owner who thinks sharon is not doing a good job at a fair price and are not trustworthy, please pipe up post and tell us, and please state your reasons.



And if kd think we are just going to roll over AGAIN and go away, they have another thing coming, they need to get this in their head, the days of the useless hand picked sharon committee are gone. Viva la Revolucion!



WORMS HAVE TURNED !



Dave Ex worm



sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
21/01/2009 13:53

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Message 82 of 125 in Discussion

I find this all very amusing these MC use all the same lines do they not



we are making no money

there is handful of owners that are not happy

we do not have to show you accounts

we need more money

your maintenance money is going up

the pool is green becasue you use too much suntan lotion

we can replant its too hot



I am glad the worms are turning well done exworm Dave



Regards



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
21/01/2009 16:05

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Message 83 of 125 in Discussion

Why don't these M/C just give notice that they are going to end there contract with owners . If they are finding running sites problamatic , M/C can simply give notice and bow out .



If owners get organised and vote either the M/C back in for another year or out they go .



irishwrath


Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
21/01/2009 16:36

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Message 84 of 125 in Discussion

We do not have a vote, kd tell us what is going to happen and that is that.



O to go back 12 moths when I was blissfully unaware of what was going on and all seemed rosy on tbv.



flutterby


Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 214

Message Posted:
21/01/2009 17:15

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Message 85 of 125 in Discussion

Don't you just love it when people say they know what is going on at other sites, Punkrocker, I am afraid you know nothing if you can make a comment like that, of what is going on at SeaTerra Esentepe.



You all really do need to take a grip of yourselves, enjoy this beautiful country, and the majority of its welcoming people, but don't forget good business practice. Apres sales business is VERY good business, eventually the chaff will be separated from the wheat.



So I suggest you all get your business heads into gear, and think very carefully about what is happening around you and support whomever wants to put things to rights!!!



redtom


Joined: 30/12/2008
Posts: 116

Message Posted:
21/01/2009 18:42

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Message 86 of 125 in Discussion

Flutterby here here ! Lol



Arnie58


Joined: 21/01/2009
Posts: 9

Message Posted:
21/01/2009 21:25

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Message 87 of 125 in Discussion

Irishwrath - re message 81

I Completely agree with you! i feel so strongly about this I have joined the site just to answer your post.

I would not trust Sharon Management to run a bath let alone a supposedly flagship site like TBV.

There is absolutely no way I would allow them to hold a key for us. Can't count the number of stories where owners have been charged for things they haven't bought, charged twice for things they have bought and paid for a checking service that either hasn't happened or where the apartments have been used as a public convenience and cafe facility. We have been lied to on numerous occasions and shouted at when we questioned the service we are receiving. The accounting process is a shambles and seemingly relies on post it notes and scraps of paperand as for the published accounts - words fail me - my cat could do a better job. We too are sick of all the additional charges that come out of nowhere.



Arnie58


Joined: 21/01/2009
Posts: 9

Message Posted:
21/01/2009 21:26

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Message 88 of 125 in Discussion

Continued - yet still they are supported by Ariel Group and Kensington Development. Everyone I have spoken to feels the same - and I have spoken to a lot of fellow owners.

Our contracts do not seem to be worth the paper they are written on when it applies to us and are heavily weighted in their favour when it applies to them. Thankfully our new committee are taking legal advice. Despite other postings to the contrary it really will not be easy to get them out - time, effort, perseverance and sound legal advice l think.

As for sitting down and talking to them - it's been tried on several occasions - nailing jelly and herding cats springs to mind! There is just no dealing with these people.

We are happy to pay for a quality service but we are certainly not happy to be ripped off!

We're angry and frustrated but will see it through and contribute to the legal fund so that we can, hopefully, start living the dream that we were sold!



RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
21/01/2009 22:18

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Message 89 of 125 in Discussion

Welcome to The Pleasure Dome Arnie...



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
22/01/2009 15:30

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Message 90 of 125 in Discussion

if i were a buyer looking at this forum, i know where i wouldn't buy!

by sitting here bitching you are de valueing your own properties.



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
22/01/2009 15:36

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Message 91 of 125 in Discussion

Firestarter

This is the only way some owners can communicate FREELY , i know things get heated !!!! in time i feel sure that these rip off Management companies will be obselete , but until then is not ok to echange views etc .



sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
22/01/2009 15:49

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Message 92 of 125 in Discussion

Firestarter is trying to find a solution classed as 'bitching' !







Trying to find a solution to obtaining a good management Company will only assits in helping the sites look better!!! doing nothing will run them down I think maybe you aremissing something



Please keep your comments constructive or don't bother



Reagrds



irishwrath


Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
22/01/2009 16:34

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Message 93 of 125 in Discussion

We as owners on tbv kept it in house for far to long, letting new people buy into problems we knew of, so how long do we keep it quiet ?



It is not fair to hush things up, if people are spending their savings they need to know what return to expect, and the costs involved.



Would that not be akin to helping developers and management Co to deceive.



KickingK


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 90

Message Posted:
22/01/2009 21:35

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Message 94 of 125 in Discussion

We have been extremely lucky with our maintenance company, First Consult Cyprus. We can't praise them enough.



We own a property at Bufavento Village. The 1st year a reputable estate agent (naming no names!) carried out the site maintenance. We had a number of non-payers, problems with the pool and to be honest the company were a real let down.



We received a quote from First Consult Cyprus, who compared to other companies, gave us a reasonable quote. We are now in the second year with them, the price stayed the same this year, with nearly all owners paying their fees, any problems are sorted immediately. Incilay and her team make regular visits and now we now have the convenience of popping into their new office (Karakum). They have helped us with insurances, taxing cars, banking and email us if there are any concerns/problems with our property. All the team are really helpful. Incilay (speaks in both English and Turkish).



Their email: info@firstconsultcyprus.co.uk



KickingK


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 90

Message Posted:
22/01/2009 21:40

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Message 95 of 125 in Discussion

cont.



Please let me know if you need a telephone number or contact me for any further details.



I can fully understand the problems you are experiencing, as we had them in our first year of purchasing. But now we have peace of mind and look forward to our visits.



KickingK



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
22/01/2009 21:41

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Message 96 of 125 in Discussion

This is excellent news that there are maintenance companies out there , that have a good reputation . so far have had two this week on this forum , positive news .



RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
22/01/2009 21:55

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Message 97 of 125 in Discussion

Nice post KickingK, Thanks for the re-assuring words.



KickingK


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 90

Message Posted:
22/01/2009 21:56

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Message 98 of 125 in Discussion

PIPIE



It is nice to spread some good news!



As I mention we experienced so many problems in the first year. It made our really exciting adventure of buying a property in the sun turn into a nightmare!



Now we have real peace of mind. I can't praise them enough.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
22/01/2009 22:09

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Message 99 of 125 in Discussion

Yes

this is positive news but is the problem more about being tied into a signed contract which specifies the maintenance company you have to use?



Presumably this was not the case at Bufavento Village?



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
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Message Posted:
22/01/2009 22:14

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Message 100 of 125 in Discussion

Bradus look at your contract what does it say ? feedback will help here



KickingK


Joined: 14/09/2008
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Message Posted:
22/01/2009 22:24

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Message 101 of 125 in Discussion

Bradus



Bufavento Village is not tied into any contract. It is renewed yearly.



Really hope these poor owners find a solution.





KickingK



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
23/01/2009 00:23

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Message 102 of 125 in Discussion

Pipie,

My contract states that the developer will provide maintenance on the site for a period of 2 years.Basically until all planting is mature and we have made sure there are no problems with the development. It states what is included in the price. After this time the apartment owners are free to employ a management company of their choosing.



sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
23/01/2009 00:55

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Message 103 of 125 in Discussion

I have met Incilay from First Consult Cyprus and you she is an extremely lovley lady. I have also visited owners on Bufavento and she is well respected and runs an excellent Maintenance Company. Others should take a leaf out of her book this is how sites should be running.



I cannot tell you what a refreshing change it made speaking to someone on level that respected you as an owner



Regards



irishwrath


Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
23/01/2009 01:07

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Message 104 of 125 in Discussion

The whole management thing is money for old rope, Sharon sub everything out and add 20% to the inflated cost. Why do we need them, anyone could sub jobs out.



If you make +20% on cost you are hardly going to push for the best price, if you do you shoot yourself in the foot, get three quotes pick the highest.



Thanks all for your support it is greatly appreciated.



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
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Message Posted:
23/01/2009 01:13

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Message 105 of 125 in Discussion

Yeah i have just spoken to someone who has also said that First consult has a good reputation . positive feedback .



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
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Message Posted:
23/01/2009 10:27

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Message 106 of 125 in Discussion

It would be really good to hear of any other recomendations of Maintenaince companies , that owners are satisfied with , or any other ways of running a complex that has positive feedback .



This information would help sites who have voted for a change in management .



Let's get our thinking caps on guys .



truffles808


Joined: 16/10/2007
Posts: 183

Message Posted:
23/01/2009 12:09

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Message 107 of 125 in Discussion

Start our own M/C recommendations for people to view, pluses and the minuses of the company.

As we are the best critics with first hand experience.

Size of complex, services offered, price structure, CUSTOMER SERVICE, maintenance deposits held or not, flexibility of services, and the expected contract terms and length of.

Just an idea.



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
23/01/2009 17:59

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Message 108 of 125 in Discussion

Brilliant truffles . How can we get started .



RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 23:00

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Message 109 of 125 in Discussion

So the plot thickens in 2009, so far Sharon Management(Ltd) cease trading and are replaced by the holding company Resco management, again(Ltd) and it`s dormant account whatever that is "activated". Today sees further developments of the Manager Arie "resigning" and being replaced with another handpicked head of Maintainance. Still large amounts of monies missing/misappropriated without proper explanation.

What`s going on? It`s confusing and of concern to say the least...



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
26/01/2009 23:21

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Message 110 of 125 in Discussion

Get organised and vote them out !!!!!!



irishwrath


Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 00:30

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Message 111 of 125 in Discussion

WE HAVE NO VOTE !



KDG tell us how it is and that is that !



If we did have a vote they would have been gone long ago.



RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 01:25

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Message 112 of 125 in Discussion

Yes you`re right, they seem to want to retain control against all wishes despite the supposed financial problems and mass unrest amongst owners. Makes you wonder what the ulterior motive is??



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 01:28

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Message 113 of 125 in Discussion

The motive is to make as much money as you can in a short space of time ,and then disappear ,before the rug is inevitably pulled.



RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 01:38

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Message 114 of 125 in Discussion

And in a nutshell that`s about it, that`s what it feels like is happening.



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
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Message Posted:
27/01/2009 01:58

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Message 115 of 125 in Discussion

In your contract does it say you own a part of the complex ?



irishwrath


Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 03:00

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Message 116 of 125 in Discussion

The contracts are not worth the paper they are written on, we have to adhere to our side of the contract but they do not have to adhere to theirs.



kd will come up with story's of why we are not getting what we were sold but they never have a happy ending.



kd just blame the local mayor.



Barrovians1


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 25

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 07:44

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Message 117 of 125 in Discussion

As we are shareholders of Resco, surely we have a say /vote in who Resco bring in as the manager?.



Bob.



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 09:57

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Message 118 of 125 in Discussion

If they are not worth the paper they are written on from buyers side , this is also the case from the sellers , you realy need to look at your contracts because if you ever needed to take issues/concerns to civil law court this is what civil law court would look at . but before it got to that stage , would it not be a good idea to look at each others contract , having said that you all need to be singing fronm the same htmn sheet so to speak . Just my thoughts , hope this helps .



midas


Joined: 27/12/2008
Posts: 23

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 18:35

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Message 119 of 125 in Discussion

just an observation

But some posters seem to want to start ww3 on the back of serious posts,

WHY ??

ulterior motives perhaps?



Barrovians1


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 25

Message Posted:
27/01/2009 23:16

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Message 120 of 125 in Discussion

Good observation Midas



Who exactly are you referring too?.



Bob.



midas


Joined: 27/12/2008
Posts: 23

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 00:09

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Message 121 of 125 in Discussion

Hello Bob

Just scroll thru the posts

Its not fitting to name names

Let me just say

up the revolution, (not)



irishwrath


Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 00:48

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Message 122 of 125 in Discussion

Well it is up to you to think as you like, we on tbv have heard the ulterior motives line over and over again.



Would you care to explain what you think their ulterior motive would be ?



As I made the revolution comment I can only assume you refer to me.



midas


Joined: 27/12/2008
Posts: 23

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 08:33

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Message 123 of 125 in Discussion

Irish wrath,

most certainly NOT aimed at you, your cause is just, I should not have come in on this but i spotted someone is coming in on this thread regularly and will not tell what is buging them or indeed if anything is.



irishwrath


Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 124

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 12:03

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Message 124 of 125 in Discussion

Thanks for clearing that up, I think I know who you mean now.



midas


Joined: 27/12/2008
Posts: 23

Message Posted:
28/01/2009 18:48

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Message 125 of 125 in Discussion

Many thanks Irish wrath, please keep up the pressure you will be rewarded, and I think I know that things have already happened for the betterment, GOOD LUCK



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