north cyprus today newspaper!

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 19:50

in todays news paper the headlines state that the UK goverment & commenwealth have warned UK expats about buying homes on Greek Cypriot land as they will liable to pay hugh compensations to the legal owner of the land!!!! it also says those that have already bought should have done there homework before buying & will get no help from the UK goverment or the EU.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 19:52

The British Government warned of this years ago. People still purchased though.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 19:53

Gulp !



*watches excrement hit air conditioning*

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 19:54

They won't mind taking the tax off you though if you sell and declare it on your tax return.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 19:55

So the govenment (bless em) know what the outcome of the talks will be then ?

So the gc,s will get compo not thier property back ?

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 19:55

No1Doyen......I obviously don't have a monopoly on cynicism on here !!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 19:58

You make me laugh cronos

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 19:58

Is this not what most people that purchased exchange land thought would happen? I assumed most purchasers were expecting this to be the outcome.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 20:00

Turtle....msg 5



Value of lemon grove in 1974........£200

Loss of rental/lemon sales since.....35 years @£50 p.a



Total....£1950



Not going to break the bank is it?

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 20:02

My point was how does the British Govenment know the outcome of the talks......they hav'nt a clue whats happening here let alone TRNC

maybemike


Joined: 12/01/2009
Posts: 188

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 20:05

What paper was it in?

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 20:08

cronos

My worry for those that have bought exchange land. Who sets the value of the land in 1974 and the loss of rental? If someone built a property on my land could I not insist on it being demolished? Alternatively I might negotiate a hefty price to sell the land to you?

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 20:11

Hector.....sorry,yes I was being flippant.



I was just trying to point out that the true value of any "stolen "land will be miniscule in relation to the compensation that the "refugee" GC claims !

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 20:15

also states in the article that compo will be paid at todays price for loss of use, plus the greek cyp getting there land back as well as the compo!

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 20:26

Hi juliet,



Can you please state which paper you read this article in? Or are you just another scaremonger, trying to stir things up? If the article is in a UK newspaper, perhaps we will be able to read the article for ourselves online.





The Butlers wife

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 20:28

Compo & land back ?

Perhaps they have claim to my pension as well !!

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 20:33

msg 15



i can`t do links but it`s in the weekly north cyprus newspaper, or you can check out the article on http://www.easterncyprus.com under general.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 20:41

Not convinced, unless posters leave their e mail address I always suspect scamming . we'll see.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 20:42

Wrong thread Pilgrim?

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 20:43

Greek site, no wonder!

Isabella


Joined: 02/10/2008
Posts: 199

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 20:46

Juliet - is this a Souther Cyprus paper? If so, I would not take any notice of it.

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 20:49

the article is in the north cyprus weekly newspaper.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 20:49

Thanks Isabella.....that puts rather a different slant on things !

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 21:04

Follow the link.



It is newspaper from RoC, nothing to do with TRNC.



However P5 of todays CT has the usual stuff from FCO but states "not to buy anywhere on the island"!!!!!!!!!!!!

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
17/01/2009 21:23

look at Al the badgers post "orams & the rest of us"

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 10:55

Please don't forget Suzanne that it will work both ways. It will not only be the GCs that get compo at today's prices, their land back, blah blah blah.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 11:06

Dear CiH



The working from the Foreign and Commonwealth site is QUITE clear.."northern Cyprus" warnings are SPECIFIC.



The ownership of many properties is disputed across the island, and particularly in northern Cyprus, with many thousands of claims to ownership of properties from people displaced during the events of 1974. Purchase of these properties could have serious financial and legal implications. The European Court of Human Rights has ruled in a number of cases that owners of property in northern Cyprus prior to 1974 should continue to be regarded as the legal owners of that property. Purchasers could face legal proceedings in the courts of the Republic of Cyprus, as well as attempts to enforce judgements from these courts elsewhere in the EU, including the UK. Potential purchasers should also consider that a future settlement could have consequences for property they purchase in Cyprus (including possible restitution of the property to its original owners)."

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 11:11

It can be read in full here:



http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/about-the-fco/country-profiles/europe/cyprus



Something else to remember...



"I also emphasised in the strongest terms that there is no change to our policy on the non-recognition of the so-called "TRNC"; we do not and will not recognise a separate entity in the northern part of Cyprus."



" Engaging with Turkey is essential in solving the Cyprus problem and achieving the security and stability in the region that will allow a reunified Cyprus to prosper."



"Supporting Turkey's accession process is in no way anti-Cypriot. Cyprus has much to gain if Turkey's bid for EU membership succeeds and the most to lose if it fails."



A no solution solution is NOT on the UK's agenda..

pinkchilli


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 689

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 11:20

If I bought exchanged land, then the guy I bought it off, presumably left land in the South? Fair assumption?



I would like to try and claim this land left behind if anyone tries to sort out a deal with any land that I might buy in the North!



Would it be possible to write into any possible deal, that in the event of a settlement, if I was to lose in any way, I would be able to claim from the positive outcome that my old landowner would receive?



Otherwise the friendly landowner that I might buy off in the North, could have his "kebap and eat it!"

throstle


Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 85

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 11:20

Im 68 this year

Dont think I'll worry too much

Also based on Gordon Brown's record so far

If his government told me nuclear war was declared I'd still go on holiday



Good win by the boys yesterday

Throstle4eva

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 11:35

Pinkchilli...msg 29



You have a very valid point to make and your simplistic solution makes a lot of sense!

If the "original" owner of the land or property wants compensation then any calculation should take into account the value of any benefit they have enjoyed in the South for the last 34 years.



I laugh now when I think of 2 years ago when we came across to look at property for sale,and all the estate agents gave you the impression that Exchange land meant that a TC and a GC had done a mutual deal and swapped land or property with each other after partition.

Many naive Brits possibly then thought that an "exchange" had taken place,so everone was happy!



I would have thought that if compensation was calculated at 1974 rates,then the loss in the North and the "benefit" in the South would very much even out.

However,if it was calculated at today's prices,surely the "assets" in the South would actually be worth a lot more leading to negative compensation to the GC?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 11:49

Dear Cronos



The REAL point is that the CYPRIOT owner should have the right to decide if they WANT to come back..and if houses have ben built on that land - without their permission a formula for compo worked out..



Should the owner have the right to ask for the land to be levelled and/ or loss of use ? THAT is what Turkey would be "afraid of".. as THEN the payments /c compo would be VERY one sided .. the RoC would claim that a TC could have his place back - in most cases.. ( I think the six month residency rule that the RoC ask for - sucks - if Cyprus is one nation, then living in Kyrenia IS Cyprus)



The prices in the North are lower, because of the "TRNC's" surreal situation and doubt over ownership.



Annan would have resulted in most folk living in pre 2003 pads being pretty secure, a small level of compo being paid to the owner - places built post 2003 had to pay the going rate for the *house*.



May be long Leases will be applied - the ownership reverting to the GC

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 11:59

mmmmmm.....msg 32....it's a bloody minefield isn't it ?



I agree with you that the rightful owner IS the rightful owner,and should be allowed to decide whether they want the land/property back or some level of compensation.

However (and this pushes us into human rights territory),if they choose to have their land or property back they should be made to commit to actually moving back there...and not just taking it so that someone else CAN'T have it.......am I making sense?



I also think that if the current owner/tenant/call them what you will (mostly Brits) has to pay compensation,then a proprtion of this should be paid by the TC who sold it to them !

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 12:26

Hi Cronos



re msg 33 Annan did not allow for GCs to move back to their properties in most cases.. THAT was THE main objection ..



Being honest, most GCs would NOT move back.. it was a principle thing.

ian444


Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 71

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 12:27

The crucial factor is not what is on the Foreign and Commenwealth website but the timing of changing the advice is.



I believe it is no coincidence that just as the two presidents meet to discuss the property solution this change takes place.



The UK is still a very important country in this world. It is inconcieveable that the presidents would come up with a property solution that would effect thousands of british citizens without the UK government being privately briefed on the likely outcome.



I fear the TRNC is about to sell its foreign property owners down the river and when it happens the UK government can simply point to the Foreign and Commenwealth website and say we warned you.

Cypfan


Joined: 10/10/2008
Posts: 104

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 12:41

ian444:



"I fear the TRNC is about to sell its foreign property owners down the river and when it happens the UK government can simply point to the Foreign and Commenwealth website and say we warned you."



To be fair it's only the person who willingly signed a contract and paid over money for a GC "exchange" property who sold anyone down the river, and it's his own family he's done that to.

Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 14:03

If you bought property on Exchanged land, then you will be legally entitled to the equivilant in the south ( for land lost, hence "exchanged"), The owner giving up this right by selling to you or the developer )

Wether this be the actual land ( now worth 4 times more than the north ) or compensation.....you would pay compensation for the land in the north whilst recieving compensation for land lost in the south.

Only people to have to pay or hand back would be those who bought GC land that was not "exchanged" by the Turkish Goverment, which in my opinion is correct.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 14:20

What has amazed me is the amount of purchasers of exchange land that believe the British Government or EU will foot the compensation bill. With the credit crunch biting the whole of Europe do you really believe that money will be put aside to finance 2nd homes and villas for what some might call rich Brits?



The tax payer in Britain would be up in arms if they thought their well earned taxes were going towards supplelmenting holiday homes for people, who lets face it "gambled with their money by ignoring the risks.Even if you did not research buying in the TRNC did the question never occur, "Why is property so cheap?" Surely this hould have been the prompt?



I truely hope that a compromise is found which meets the needs of the GCs, TC's and foreign buyers. The key word being compromise. No side is going to be entirely happy with what will be proposed, its going to be a case of a damage limitation exercise which makes the best of a bad job.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 14:29

There is still some confusion about "exchange land".



The ONLY GC's to have exchanged their land are the recent cases that went before the Property Commision or the ECHR's. Exchange is something designed by the TRNC government. The GC government or people have never agreed to it.

Look at the percentage of GC owned property throughout the island in comparison to TC land in 1974. The TC's have never had the percentage of land required for a true exchange.

Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 14:32

Dear Bradus

Do "rich Brits" really think someone else will pay?...I think not?



After compensation has been paid for lost land in the south & North, owners in the North ( "rich brits", Tcs, turks, Russians etc etc, most would be quite willing to share the cost of the difference )



It is just a matter of finding a formulea ( ie a compromise ) that is now being sought by the 2 leaders.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 14:50

Actually Stuart if you read through some of the posts on the forums a few Brits expect the UN or the British Government to contribute to any compensation bill. I have always been astounded by this.



I am not saying that Brits who own a holiday property in the TRNC and also maintain a property in England ARE rich but thats how the majority of people will view it.

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 15:03

Bradus,

Dont understand the logic in your post. The TRNC is the cheapest site in the med many normal working class released their equity in their property and bought before the housing slump. Some people like myself had more than one job and grafted hard to raise the money to buy here. So the majority will think we are rich!! Then they are ill informed and idiots my friend.........

briggus


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 15:18

When was this advice first up loaded by the FCO is a question to be asked? How will people who bought prior to 2006 be treated as according to the FCO site it can be seen as a criminal offence post 2006.



What does this make the vendor, the local authority and government officials in the TRNC who have issued documents approvals and charged taxes in the mean time?



On 20 October 2006, an amendment to the Republic of Cyprus criminal code relating to property came into effect. Under the amendment, buying, selling, renting, promoting or mortgaging a property without the permission of the owner (the person whose ownership is registered with the Republic of Cyprus Land Registry, including Greek Cypriots displaced from northern Cyprus in 1974) is a criminal offence. The maximum prison sentence is 7 years. The amendment to the law also states that any attempt to undertake such a transaction is a criminal offence and could result in a prison sentence of up to 5 years. This law is not retros

briggus


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 15:23

cont...

This law is not retrospective, so will not criminalise transactions that took place before 20 October 2006. Furthermore, documents relating to the purchase of property in northern Cyprus will be presumed by the Cypriot authorities to relate to the illegal transfer of Greek Cypriot property and may be subject to confiscation when crossing the Green Line. Anyone in possession of these documesubject to confiscation when crossing the Green Line. Anyone in possession of these documents may be asked to make a statement to the Cypriot authorities and could face criminal proceedings under the 20 October 2006 amendment. The full implications of this legislation are not yet clear. Any enquiries about its scope should be made to the Republic of Cyprus High Commission in London (Tel: +44 20 7 3214 100), or to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for the Republic of Cyprus (Tel: +357 22 401000).

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 15:23

Blackpoolfan,



we could argue the semantics for ever about what constitutes "rich"

It is obviously a comparative term and I myself have worked hard all my life to buy my place in the sun, it has not come easy or come out of any "surplus income"

My point was that anyone who may be affected in future by their decision to purchase property in the TRNC would be naive in the extreme to think that the British government or EU have any duty at all to bail them out.

As I have said before my sincere hope is that a setlement deal will compensate the rightful owners and have a minimal impact on the "foreigners" who are caught up in this whole sorry mess.

Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 15:27

Dear Briggus

many thanks for the insight to the law concerning the Republic of Cyprus.



People buying in the North are currently governed by Turkey, and have to abide by their law.



Why bother asking questions like this, other than to provoke?



IF, the island is to reunited, it is up to the Elected officials to sort it out, not this forum....we ALL wait in anticipation of a compromise.

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 15:52

Bradus,

Now that is more concise and you make very valid points and i agree anybody who thinks the Government/EU will intervene is potty as are the people who think we are all rich and arrogant. I presume you and i are the same in that we have worked hard to provide a better future for ourselves and our families and i hope people who have bought checked out the land done their homework and paid their taxes don't get tarnished with the same brush as those that haven't. I to hope this mess can be sorted soon and wish everyone regardless of race colour or creed can live in peace again.......

briggus


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 16:09

Dear Stewart



Was not the thread on about FCO and is not the idea of a message board to provoke thought and discussion?



If I did not make my point well - apologies - but if UK buyers as i am one on the Karpaz pre 2006 - could be considered as criminal in a fellow EU state then what does that make the persons involved in the selling and charging you for using via rates. As everything - life is not black and white and if the TRNC president signs up to what the ROC appears to be demanding - where does that leave him and TRNC govt officials, Council officials and the property developers who sold you the property in relation to the October 2006 amendment?

Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 16:51

It will leave us all, in a position that has been agreed between the parties, whatever that may be....seems then, it would not be a compromise, rather an agreement to a "demand"?



Relax, why worry...untill we know for certain...enjoy NC, besides how much will it cost in compensation for a donum of olive trees between 36 new owners? ( before we recieve compensation from land lost in the south?)



As all GCs are now EU members, as are we ( if you are a brit ?), we have complete freedom to move and buy anywhere in the EU WITHOUT HARRASEMENT, besides, the jails are full!

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 19:20

stewart

if you think for your plot in the north, you will be entitled to the land it was exchange for in the south, you are living on cloud cookoo land.

it wasn't exchanged for anything, there was no swap.

it was done on a points basis.

if you are a brit , we have complete freedom to move and buy anywhere in the EU.

the uk goverment warned about buying previously owned gc land.

remember the eu laws cover human rights.

what about the gc's human rights.

i guess your europe didn't account for that.

wake up smell the coffee.

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 19:38

Human rights apply to all, your solicitor takes your money,so does the estate agent, the builder gets paid so do the builders, the government takes its taxes and the foreign guy gets kicked out and loses everything. Will that really happen? and is that democracy in motion? i think not. As Stewart says the jails are full i say Bring It On.........

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 20:08

blackpoolfan

i guess you have no assets in the e.u then?

otherwise you will be kissing goodbye to them.

i don't know how you sleep at night?

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 20:29

Firestarter,

I find your comments to be over the top i stated my opinion and you are condescending in your reply. So you force me to fight fire with fire,The answer to your question how do i sleep at night? the answer is very well as i dont get uptight when i read paranoid crap spouted from the likes of you. So a piece of advise either reply to a post with respect or dont bother..............

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 20:53

has nobody taken any notice of the newspaper article!!??

Al the Badger


Joined: 06/02/2008
Posts: 130

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 22:11

The term "going off at tangents" springs to mind, Juliet !!

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
18/01/2009 22:12

hello suzanne

why juliet is it from shakespeare and your romeo is now called cypfan

anyway back to your thread ,no change there then.



musin

long live the kktc

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 01:12

Whether this is accurate I,m not sure, but as mortgages apparently were difficult to secure on NC property by foreign purchasers , presummably many are unencumbered. Therefore should unification take place and mortgages become easier to obtain , surely this avenue could be considered to raise capital towards paying compensation should the need arise. In which case UK assets are not at risk.

Just a thought ,probably rubbish , I'm sure someone will 'correct me'

as I would like to know to.

regards

p

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 13:35

Still wondering if my previous thought has any merit or credance.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 13:44

A bit like the Curate's Egg old boy..



If there is a settlement then YES ( possibly some.. if you can find a bank to lend against your bricks and mortar - assuming you need to ) ,



if NO settlement and you DO have assets in the EU somewhere that are worth going after.. then do something now - then again.. you might just like to wait for the ECJ ruling..

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 13:44

blackpoolfan

i replied to you as between you and stewart you seem to think its all a bit of a joke.

maybe you wont if the gc's who's land your on comes calling.

take you heads from out of the sand.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 13:52

thanks mmmmmm,

personally would n't need help, but good to tell others of possible solution or hope of one.

regards

p