As RobnJo asked...about Russians

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 17:41

The latest from Russia..



"MEDVEDEV RUSSIA CYPRUS ISSUE

Russia and Cyprus collaborate for a just settlement to the Cyprus

problem, on the basis of the UN Security Council resolutions, President

of the Russian Federation Dimitry Medvedev has said.

``Russia and Cyprus are connected with traditions of friendship and

cooperation, they have a common aim for a just settlement of the Cyprus

problem as well as for the strengthening of their cooperation both

bilaterally and internationally,`` said Medvedev receiving the

credentials of Cyprus` new Ambassador to Russia Petros Kestoras.

He added that ``the results of Cyprus President Demetris Christofias

recent visit to Moscow confirm the common aim to cooperate actively

both bilaterally and internationally and of course for a just

settlement to the Cyprus problem on the basis of the UN Security

Council resolutions and the consensus of the parties.``"



May be as the Russians want recognition for S.Osettia and Abkhazia -deals re K

Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 17:53

mmmmmmm...interesting, not 100% sure about my history.....was in not the Russians interest in Cyprus, the reason why the yanks did not stop the Turks ?

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 17:54

Rough Translation:



"We're keeping out of this! As long as there's a dispute, it keeps the US from having bases there!"

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 17:55

re Kosovo and Cyprus can be done....

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 17:59

re msg 3



Rough Translation:







"We're keeping out of this! As long as there's a dispute, it keeps the US from having bases there!"





Er, Nope.. the Americans don't need a base - they have the British... a certain type of plane ( driven by the likes of Gary Powers ) has been known.. ooops I can't say anymore...



The Russians are "matey" with Cyprus.. have been for a long time and Cyprus buys their military hardware...



The current RoC President studied in Moscow.. as did many Cypriots and speaks Russian



you keep posting and I'll "educate" you ;)

mikelapta



Joined: 20/11/2008
Posts: 2186

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 18:11

Maybe the Russians want another place to sell their gas,without going Ukraine

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 18:17

m&ms



I think you're too young to fully understand international politics. Garry Powers???. The U2 was a very successful UK Clubmans Racing car I drove in the early 70's. The Mallocks were a wonderful family of engineers.



No resolution will be found.



Russia will form an alliance with Turkey to allow a Russian Military base in NC, at Gecitkale.

ROC will be stuck with binge drinking UK squaddies.

Barack will try to keep his bases in E Turkey.

Israel & Russia will invest heavily in NC.

Varosha will become Russian Barracks.



Ayia Napa will still be s**t!







"I'll educate you"????



I think I'll have to start calling you 'Rodney'





None of us 'KNOW',.. so none of us can 'EDUCATE' others.





Go and do something productive!





Rob

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 18:18

Hi Stewart



"interesting, not 100% sure about my history.....was in not the Russians interest in Cyprus, the reason why the yanks did not stop the Turks ?"



I'd say that was a factor.. Kissinger referred to Makarios as a "Commie in Cassock".



The US admin encourages the right wing Junta in Greece to "take control" in Cyprus whilst nodding and winking to the TR admin about how much land they'll '' "allow" TR to take.. even to the point that the Turks asked the Brits if they could enter via the SBA's!



But..the US Ambassador in Nicosia was NOT in favour of such "games" and is assassinated...



As the US files on Cyprus get released it becomes clearer that the Cypriots were Pawns and there are more questions than answers...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 18:27

Dear Rob re msg 7



how did you know that motor sport was a particular fav past time of mine ;)



You asked a lot of questions - I gave you straight answers.. I was only 15 when Turkey invaded and I cheered for the sake of TCs..



You're right .. youthful exuberance can lead to silly conclusions /actions.. so what is your excuse?



"Russia will form an alliance with Turkey to allow a Russian Military base in NC, at Gecitkale. ..Israel & Russia will invest heavily in NC.



Varosha will become Russian Barracks. "



Not too up on historic Rusio-Turkish relations either, then I see... Ah you weren't being "serious", I expect...



Israelis came in 2004/5 - and spent money - did you miss it.. ?



It is clear that some of us know more than you...

Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 18:28

mmmmmm....totally agree with you, assume you mean ALL cypriots?



Do you honestly think there will be peace as a reunited island or may the island become two states ( as in the usa, seperate police, seperate admin, but one country with freedom of movement )...how do you see it actually panning out, rather than what you wish for?

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 18:40

M&Ms



I will bow to your superior knowledge and leave you to it.









Thank goodness I only took today off, hoping for some useful discourse.



You live & learn!



(p.s. did you know that analysts say today is supposedly the most depressing day of the year?)



ROB

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 18:42

Hi Stewart re 10 .. I meant all Cypriots..



Well, the TCs MUST have autonomy and the feeling that the GCs won't "take control"..



The GCs must feel that they have had "right" done by them and TCs re property dispossession.



Then there's the thorny Q of "imported" Turks and Pontian Greeks



Finally, and a long way down the list - Foreigners who bought on disputed land.. particularly those who bought post Annan . I think they could end up leasing the land from a sort of bi-partisan custodian.



Basically, one nation, federated.. all within the EU and TR joining the same day.



A time limit on restrictions on residency.. for ethnic group... of at least a generation..





That's how I wish it to be...



How do I see it panning out ? Honestly, I don't know.. Turkey's attitude a BIG factor...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 18:48

Dear Rob re msg 11



"did you know that analysts say today is supposedly the most depressing day of the year?..."



Is this your method for fighting off depression... I hope not.. I guess I didn't "help", sorry !



"Thank goodness I only took today off, hoping for some useful discourse. "



May be days off are "bad" for you.. ?

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 18:51

Message 7

Keep going my son, some interresting opinions but to heavy for me. There are,and always will be people who think they now more than the next man but right or wrong you are entitled to your own views and opinion.....

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 19:00

Dear Blackpoolfan re msg 14



I'm sure you know the difference between an opinion faced on facts and ...well you can guess...



I'm sure you noticed that I answered Rob's Q's even though it was obvious where he was heading ;)...



Sorry, may be you're "sore" at me 'cos we nicked your Manager..

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 19:15

msge 6



Russians are shipping their gas around the world to places like South Africa etc . They are using Cypriot ships to carry the load, where pipelines do not exist.

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 19:17

Gotcha, so you are the closet leeds fan! im still going through therapy. The only downside to him was he was a yorkshire man but hey no-ones perfect not even you........

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 19:51

I had already "admitted" to my "affliction" elsewhere on a footie thread.



"hey no-ones perfect not even you........" Have you've been talking to the Missus? ;)

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 00:45

let's draw a distinction between the russian government,

and those individual russians buying-up trnc property



the russian government sports a russo-centric world view:

the national objective is to establish a world order

which would be separate, by their lights, from the "u.s.controlled" one

this chimes well with french neo-gaullism, while both countries

have a long history of trying to counter u.s. hegemony



russian support for south cyprus which is both emotional and practical

may be defined in terms of culture, religion, and expediency

while it is well-known that greeks and greek cypriots

feel they have often been let-down by america,

with turkey as a most stalwart founder-member of nato,

adding insult to injury



so the kremlin shores up its alliance with the roc



but that won't influence turkey one jot because,

as a turkish cypriot constantly reminds me:

turkey has settled 150,000 of it's people in the north



and going anywhere they ain't



andre

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 01:09

Dear Andre re 19



many of us will be aware of the way Turks were removed from many islands in the Med, and how Cyprus was the line that would not be crossed..



BUT..



That did not mean they could colonise Cyprus with Anatolian farmers following the ethnic cleansing of GCs ...



Many a TC doesn't appreciate them much less than the GC



How "important" Cyprus is to Turkey will be apparent by how important it's EU membership aspirations are..



Judging by your name you might have some Russian ancestry and you'll know that most Russians are happy to visit TR for a holiday, but most of them would be reluctant to settle in a Muslim country...

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 20:38

dear mmmmmm,



I'd be interested in your opinions on the following statements:



russians are in the forefront of trnc property buyers in these difficult times



turkey "did" populate much of cyprus with anatolians because they "could"



the ussr had 60 million citizens of muslim background

making it, possibly, the world's seventh (?) largest moslem state

(after indonesia, india, pakistan, bangladesh, turkey and egypt)



turkey-eu accession talks are considered by many to be fatally obstructed



at what point in the future do you think that a "trade"

between the eu and turkey over "cyprus" would ever come to be offered:

and what do you guess turkey's reply might be?



please comment on the practical limitations of using moral and absolute

concepts like "right" "wrong" "happy" "facts" "obvious" and "autonomy"

in the context of a middle eastern setting



andre

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 23:53

Dear Andre re msg 21 "Russians are in the forefront of trnc property buyers in these difficult times" ..are they ? ..



"Turkey "did" populate much of cyprus with anatolians because they "could" " .. did they? .. I thought the "TRNC" was "independent" .. I know many TCs resent the fact that they are "outnumbered" ..



"the ussr had 60 million citizens of muslim background " .. that doesn't mean that Ethnic Orthodox Russians are as "tolerant" as they should be.. Henece my remark about happy to holiday ... in their all inclusive hotels .. but not settle.. Don't think for a minute I agre with their notions but I've lived amongst Russians for 7 years and saw their attitude to "the north" and Turkey..



"Turkey-EU accession talks are considered by many to be fatally obstructed "

.. not by me..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 23:57

"At what point in the future do you think that a "trade"



between the EU and Turkey over "Cyprus" would ever come to be offered:



and what do you guess Turkey's reply might be?"



.. The answer depends on the terms of any agreement, and who is in power in Turkey ...







"Please comment on the practical limitations of using moral and absolute



concepts like "right" "wrong" "happy" "facts" "obvious" and "autonomy"



in the context of a middle eastern setting"



That answer does not require the easy some might think.. Either nations obey UN resolutions or they must pay a penalty..

Steve1953



Joined: 04/12/2008
Posts: 298

Message Posted:
22/01/2009 12:15

Dear mmmmmm,your history is correct sir - I remember the political invasion - my understanding was that the turks were "invited" to invade by the us, because of the "commie in the cassock". Repatriation of greeks and turks following the swops in the 1920's as a result of Mr Ataturk and others has not helped the Cyprus solution. After lengthy reading and discussion/greater understanding of chatting with the locals on both sides;I realise that this mess is going to take a very long time to sort out.



I think the only way forward is Turkey to join the eu - because the yanks want to continue to use their air bases - but dont hold your breath. Land wont come into it initially,as too many other issues to resolve eg trust,killings,religion,wealth etc. Sorry to be a neg nick on this one,but it aint going to be easy.regards,Steve

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
22/01/2009 12:39

Hi Steve,



re 24



Don't think you are being anything but realistic.. BOTH the GCs and the TURKS...and I mean TURKS are going to have to be realistic about compromise. The poor old TCs don't REALLY have a say in it, unless they start embarrassing TR by marching in the streets and saying "this country is ours", again...



I know that Messrs Talat and Christofias are talking, but can Mr Talat "deliver" ?



I don't think this recession will help, and Pres. Obama isn't going to go for a high profile initiative on CY that might fall on it's face..



And YET.. I remain optimistic.

Steve1953



Joined: 04/12/2008
Posts: 298

Message Posted:
22/01/2009 14:24

Dear mmmmmm, I agree with your reasoning,



The Russians will have an influence - as they have interests on boths sides of the border ....



... the muslim card has not yet been fully pulled out ....



.... nor the arab money coming into the north for motorways etc - I wouldn't have thought that they would do this,if they did not think they could get something out of it?



... I just hope that the dialogue continues - small steps are better than none... and maybe lead to bigger ones.



Failing that they should elect US (not the yanks),to the talks to sort things out. kind regards,Steve

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
22/01/2009 16:47

Hi Steve,

re msg 26



The problem with the USA is that the Left wing GCs haven't forgiven them for encouraging the right to "try it on " - a coup - knowing that the US was "playing" the Right ..



Lots of GCs were killed in the Coup and it was the pretext for TR intervention.



*I* don't think that Russians have SO many interests on the "north" side of the line and unless Russia wants to use "TRNC" to get something re Abkhazia/ S.Ossetia I think they will back the "rump" RoC re the existing Sec. Council Resolutions concerning "TRNC"...



The "rump" RoC has played a canny game re Arabs... don't expect any dramatic moves from the Middle East.





I STILL see the EU as the key.



Mark

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
22/01/2009 22:25

am I the only person on this board

who doesn't believe turkey is being offered

eu membership in the forseeable future?



it is true the accession process is grinding painfully on

and the ak-led governmement is doing its best to progress it

but many european politicians have already stated

more-or-less publicly, they do not think it appropriate

or some such, plus the roc and greeks

have been obstructing some of the chapters



it is an easy assumption the eu is the key:

after all if both parts of the island and turkey

were members it would go without saying

that there must have been a peace & re-unification deal



simple!



er no...



there is already peace on the island

as there has been for more than thirty years,

while the two sides have irreconcilable agendas



but all is not lost

estate agents tell me private russian buyers are active in the north

and the trnc remains a fabulous non-eurozone holiday destination



pessimistic- moi?



andre

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
23/01/2009 02:43

Dear Andre re msg 28



1/ Hopefully, now the TR govt can focus on it's EU agenda ..



2/ It is TR that signed up to the customs agreements it is now trying to renege on - it is TR that is holding up chapters..



3/ GR REALLY wants TR in.. but only as it will not have to deal with the front line of immigration!



4/ Your version of "peace" ... massive ethnic cleansing, preceded by a huge surge in death and destruction .. not most people's idea of a lasting solution - esp on a tiny island.



5/ Your estate agent will tell you "anything".. there are only so many Oligarchs..



6/ Sure "TRNC" has got "something".. wonderful nature..people food and surreality..