Plans should be made for two separate states - Letter Cyprus Mail

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
23/02/2009 23:55

Plans should be made for two separate states



I read with great interest two recent articles “where do we want to be in a year?” by Stefanos Evripidou and the other “The beautiful people, enosis, partition and our bloody mess” by former Foreign Minister Nicos Rolandis.



The first article is hoping for a solution in 2009 and the second article asks whether Cyprus will remain divided in two parts, which does not serve the interests of either side.



The Irish Model is a good example to look at. Today we have a Northern Ireland and a Republic of Ireland and no one is pushing the two to unite. Most Greek Cypriots do not believe reunification can take place. I do believe that there needs to be some land adjustments and to formalise relations as two separate states.



The Turkish side currently occupies 37 per cent of the total land area of Cyprus and prior to 1974 the Turkish Cypriots never constituted more than 20 per cent of the total population, so perhaps controlling 20-25 per ce

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
23/02/2009 23:56

cent of Cyprus would be more acceptable.



There also needs to be compensation for both sides that lost properties or land. When formalising relations between the two states what do you call both sides North and South Cyprus or Republic of Cyprus and TRNC?



You also have to consider a new flag for the Greek side as the map of all of Cyprus in yellow is a hope of reuinification and not necessarily the current reality. Most Greek Cypriots use Greek flags, perhaps a new version of a blue and white flag to match the red and white Turkish Cypriot flag invented in 1983.



I don’t think the Turkish side wants to move 120,000 plus settlers as well as 40,000 troops to mainland Turkey just to join the EU. This is the harsh reality that some politicians including the current President have not come to terms with. There is nothing wrong with permanent separation if the vast majority of both communities want this.



George Georgiou,

Melbourne, Australia



Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2009

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
23/02/2009 23:59

a realist speaks

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
24/02/2009

Quite. But easy for the writer to say that when he's sitting in Australia. It's what the Cypriots want that counts.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
24/02/2009 00:05

Aussie,



At last someone with a suggestion that maybe the TC people would give serious consideration.



Take no notice of the mad scot who thinks is the Laird of Kyrenia. Should worry about the SNP and being independent from the auld enemy rather than poking his nose in to another country's buisness.

rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
24/02/2009 00:05

its aussies opinion which means nothing at the end of the day we all have opinions but they wont count either. So its not worth posting mine coz the decsion makers wont listen, financial settlements, pipelines, subsidies will be the only answer in the long run and this will no doubt include EU incentives in certain directions. Enjoy life whilst it lasts.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
24/02/2009 00:20

"It's what the Cypriots want that counts. "



The idea that if you are outside Cyprus you are not a Cypriot is a bizzare notion and a favourite one of 'Macha'. There is a Cypriot diaspora all over the world yet they remain Cypriot. They may have different perspectives but they remain Cypriot. Macha you seem to think you have some sort of valid role deciding who is a 'real Cypriot' and who is not. One could argue that such decisions are upto Cypriots and not non Cypriots like yourself.



Macha do you know how many Cypriots had their flights paid for by political parties in the last RoC elections to return 'home' to vote ? Both communites have large numbers of Cypriot citizens living outside of Cyprus and these people and the influence they bring on Cyprus may well be our best hope for an agreed settlement. Prob best to write em all off then as not 'real' Cypriots I guess and who better to do so than you.

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
24/02/2009 00:41

erolz,i hear what you are saying,they are called London Cypriots.or Manchester.etc.....they Earn their money.and we all know how,do you think they were ever told they neede XX amount in bank before they could oppen up their fast food joints,,,recived all the cr**,and roundabouts being sent left and right to pay others,and another.like we all seem to be doing with our hard saved cash,No,they are saving and real Hard i might add,to get back here,,on retiement day......to see what we all have left behind,and yes sorry to say it TAKE,thire PICK,,a few who they know,or what...we will be gone ond they all back....and they can see it coming,,,can no one else,,,talking on here wont help.get your pens out,stand on the street corners,get what you need and post.

walk to No,10 hand in,,,,then do it next year...its called LOBBY,,,and whos doing THAT..

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
24/02/2009 02:30

Rocky



Its not my opinion I posted as I am not a Cypriot either Greek or Turkish. There are a lot of Australian Cypriots both Greek and Turkish and quite a lot have returned to live here as well after many years. Perhaps living at a distance from here for a time gives some perspective and cools some of the stronger views that often circulate here. Also perhaps the writer feels free to express an idea that many GC's may think but not express for fear of the reaction of others.



The years of protracted and stalled negotiations may simply be a a way of postponing dealing with an eventual partition and avoiding the odium of being the one to propose it.



Aussie

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
24/02/2009 08:20

i was just watching the news and it was saying the e.u supported a two state solution regarding isreal/palestine.

so why here do they support the unification of cyprus? and not the two state solution.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
25/02/2009 16:29

good point f.s.

two reasons I would suggest:



firstly the un agreed the warring communities of palestine

could never live in a single state and so in 1947 voted to divide the place in half

the palestinians angrily the plan however,

placing their trust in their leadership, the nine allied arab armies and their faith

but somewhat surprisingly the arabs lost the ensuing "war of liberation"



secondly cyprus was considered to be a single country

with 70 percent ethnic greeks who since their starting point of zero in 1878

had come to own 92% of the land...

so the powers that be foistered the 1960 independence agreement

on the island as a unified power-sharing state



thereafter the ethnic greek "majority" moved to dominate,

hoping to join up with far-off greece in order to push out the turkish cypriots

but like the palestinians, inexperience of statehood and poor judgement

led them to grossly overreach themselves



andre

Stewart


Joined: 19/07/2008
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
25/02/2009 19:01

Hi, this is nothing new, I was informed last August that this was going to be the outcome ( already decided ) and posted last oct.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
25/02/2009 21:08

Erolz: "The idea that if you are outside Cyprus you are not a Cypriot is a bizzare notion and a favourite one of 'Macha'"



But of course you as a recent English immigrant would say that wouldn't you? Especially sitting as you are on a Greek Cypriot refugee's property.

Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
25/02/2009 21:11

Aussie msg 9,



Was it too hard for you to just have said: "I agree with Macha"? ;)

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 08:54

Macha re msg 13



Legally according to the RoC and the TRNC I am a Cypriot Citizen. No different from any other Cypriot Citizen with the same obligations and rights as any other Cypriot Citizen. You seem to think that I am some sort of immigrant in Cyprus and that the law is irrelevant and that I should be treated differently from other legal citizens of Cyprus. Your views are anti the law and promote discrimination - so much then for your self claimed high moral standards then. From what you have said if you are consistent I assume you also beleive that any British CITIZENS that return to the UK from outside it or came from outside the UK are not 'real' citizens and should be treated differently to 'real' (according to you) citizens.



The reality is that you use this 'attack' (not a real Cypriot) against any Cypriot that presents views and ideas that are against your own agenda.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 09:56

Dear Andre re msg 11



" cyprus was considered to be a single country



with 70 percent ethnic greeks who since their starting point of zero in 1878



had come to own 92% of the land... "



Care to expand on this "interesting facts" source.?!



re msg 15, ErolZ



"The idea that if you are outside Cyprus you are not a Cypriot is a bizzare notion"



Funny thing is that GCs call folk who left after 1974 and came back "Charlies" - and have even made a sit-com tht was pulled after the first episode due to protests.. "Charlies" are often "resented" as possibly cowardly, and coming back with "London wealth".. It is even said "you are no Cypriot !"..



Now I'm sure that returning "wealthier" TCs may incur some comments, too ;)



Macha may have a a point !



UK citizens who are returning ARE discriminated against.. I chose not to keep a UK bank account and was told you have no credit history.. !! I was applying to reopen a UK bank account and offered a £100 o/draft facility.. ))

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 11:19

Spider,msg 8,I'm worried.....you appear to think that lobbying works! It only works when you have the ears of cabinet ministers,especially in the UK.I can tell you,I work hard,save hard,and will be sitting in the TRNC next to my pool .....in MY retirement!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 17:25

MM are you seriously suggesting that because others hold prejudices against Cypriots that are outside Cyprus or have returned to Cyprus from outside that Macha's prejudice is justified ?



There are people in the UK (and everywhere) that resent anyone who is not according to them a 'real Brit' and such like. Does that mean that if Macha presented such views here he 'may have a point'?



I thought you cared for legallity and universal application of rights and were anti discrimination. I am LEGALLY a Cypriot citizen. I have the SAME rights as every other Cypriot citizern and my views and opinions are just as valid as any other Cypriots regardless of how much Macha may want to present me as a 'sub Cypriot' and 'not a true or real Cypriot' or an 'immigrant'.



Classing me as not a Cypriot but an immigrant is no different from someone in UK classing a British CITIZEN who returns from say India or Asia to the UK as not a real British person. Blatant discrimination.

ROBIN HOOD


Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 238

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 18:24

February 25

just in Cyprus news

Any one know any more?

Referandiii in 2009? 24/02/2009 fr

There is optimism among most Cyprus watchers nowadays that the island could indeed move this year toward a resolution of its over four decades-old problem.

Many people are anticipating a simultaneous but separate referenda by the two peoples of the island on a Cyprus peace plan devised by Greek Cypriot leader Demetris Christofias and his Turkish counterpart, Mehmet Ali Talat.

Indeed, news coming from Cyprus indicates the two leaders have almost completed discussions on the "property ownership" chapter as well and that probably by the end of April the first reading of all five chapters will be completed.

There are claims as well that Turkish Cypriot leader,Talat, has finally secured support of the U.N. special envoy, Alexander Downer, as well as the United States and the British regarding a timetable according to which the two leaders will complete a deal by the.... see next post

ROBIN HOOD


Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 238

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 18:25

end of October. Thus, late in November the two peoples of the island will go to the booths for a second time in five years to vote in simultaneous but separate referenda on a peace plan. If the plan written by Talat and Christofias receive peoples of the island, then a new partnership state will be established on the island.

The other side of the coin Despite this optimistic note, however, the Greek Cypriot side has so far never accepted a timetable in the current talk's process. Greek Cypriot leader Christofias has been stressing that there should be no time pressure on the talks and the Cypriot parties should be left to discuss an agreement under the principle "A Cypriot agreement for Cypriots."

Secondly, the Greek Cypriot side is particularly against involvement of Turkey, Greece or Britain in the process in any form even though they are the three guarantor powers. One of the aims of the talks, according to Greek Cypriots, has been to get rid of all foreign troops.

ROBIN HOOD


Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 238

Message Posted:
26/02/2009 18:26

From Cyprus Times.

Anything to add? Anyone?

stevemac


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
27/02/2009 13:52

God help us! The only way is for two seperate republics.