North Cyprus Travelogue

kotram



Joined: 30/01/2008
Posts: 3

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 12:34

I just came across this wonderful site today. I live in the south, but have travelled many time to the north as a tourist and have loved kyrenia and its surroundings.

I have written up a detailed travelogue on my cyprus blog. I don't know whether I am allowed to post such things here (couldnt find any thing specific mentioned). Anyway, you can find it at http://www.triptocyprus.com/city/north_cyprus/North_Cyprus.php.

Enjoy North Cyprus.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 13:11

hi kotram

welcome to the forum, this forum is a very unbiased and informative and freindly forum i took a look at your blog very interesting!!!

but there are a couple of things i dont agree with you on



firstly north cyprus is not Occupied and this where some people go wrong and also quote 'If you are on a visit to the southern "free" side' like you said in your opening credits you dont wont to get dragged in to the politics side of things



secondly the most important why should you feel embrassed to tell your greek cypriot friends that you have been to the north will they stop being your friend if you tell them you have been

quote

'You are given a piece of paper (called the visa) at the border and the passport is not stamped. So, there is no way your greek-cypriot friends will ever know that you have visited the north'



and thirdly why do you write 'I don't know whether I am allowed to post such things here' this is a free forum to post anything you want unless its abusive or untrue

anyway i hope you enjoy this forum because all the people on here are a friendly bunch including myself being a Turkish Cypriot and dont be scared to tell your greek cypriot friends you have posted on here LOL LOL



warm regards

ukturk

Tiggy 2


Joined: 18/01/2008
Posts: 24

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 13:21

Well said Erkan,



Kotram welcome to the forum, pity a few more of your friends have not ventured in to all of Cyprus. It would make everyone much more aware of how you both have kind neighbours. I could go on and on about the subject but I will let you find out yourself.



hope you are not an Olympiakos fan? as Chelsea my team will be wanting to win the Champions League this year!!



Respect to one and all.



"The Tig"

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 15:58

The fact that the illegal southen cyprus republic is not free at all is evident from a foreigner living in south cyprus being afraid of even mentioning that he has visited northern cyprus.



While in the REAL free areas which is Northern Cyprus, people can tell their friends about how they have found a nice restaurant in south, or which historical places they have visited without any worries.



You have unknowingly hurt the Turkish Cypriot people's feelings by calling North Cyprus as being under occupation of Turkey.



I understand that it is hard to live under the oppression of the Greek Cypriot administration in Southern Cyprus by resisting the propaganda about Cyprus problem. So i will try to help you see what is behind the curtain of greek propaganda.



Turkish army is in North Cyprus under the legal consent of the Turkish Cypriot nation which is one of the two equal owners of Cyprus. As long as we allow them to stay, they can stay forever.



When the REAL Republic of Cyprus was found in 1960, the Turkish Cypriots were in an equal partnership with the Greek Cypriots. But the Greek speaking Cypriots kicked us out of the government and illegaly kept on calling themselves the Republic of Cyprus.



The Greek Cypriots did not ask for our consent when allowing tens of thousands of tourist/resident/citizen/greek soldier foreigners into south, so we do not need to ask them for their consent when allowing ANY person we like to the island especially a military force that has stopped the massacres against our nation.



The Greek Cypriots also did not ask for our consent when issuing Republic of Cyprus passport to the leader of a terrorist organisation in Turkey that has taken 40 thousand lives.



http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9311/terory117es.gif



Yet, they reject to issue the same passport to the foreign wives or children of Turkish Cypriots and their children due to inhuman racial impurity reasons!?!



Also, so that you know, there is no problem between Cyprus and Turkey. Because there is no such entity as Cyprus other than the name of the island.



There are two equal owners of Cyprus and you cannot call a -Greek Cypriot only- state as Cyprus.



This means that there is a problem between South Cyprus and North Cyprus which are supported respectively by Greece and Turkey not a problem between "Cyprus" and Turkey.



I also think that you did not notice the Turkish language on the Cyprus pounds that you are using which is a remnant of our equal ownership in the real republic of cyprus that lived until 1963.



This is one of the few areas that the Greek Cypriots kept the Turkish language as a "show" to prove that they are really the Republic of Cyprus but it rather is a living remnant of the real Cyprus Republic in which the Turkish Cypriots had equal ownership but were kicked out through use of force.



The use of force against the Turkish Cypriots lasted until 1974 when Turkey made the peace operation. Not a single TC has died since the peace operation, compare that to the thousands that were killed between 1963 and 74.



Anyway, thank you for putting touristic information about North Cyprus on your blog. It is courageous to do that while living in the terror regime in Southern Cyprus. I would appreciate if you could remove the inflamatory wording about north Cyprus from your blog.



As Turkish Cypriots we are one of the most peaceful branches of the human family tree.



We have proven that countless times, one of the most famous being, us voting in favour of having a common state with the Greek Cypriots just 30 years after the massacres against the Turkish Cypriots.



I hope you understand the concerns of the Turkish speaking Cypriots.



As a final note, Girne is not the name for Kyrenia on the road signs in North Cyprus. Girne is the name of the city in(Turkish) the official language of North Cyprus a

Tiggy 2


Joined: 18/01/2008
Posts: 24

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 16:25

Alasian,



To me You sound exactly like a GC spouting off against NC, It's a pity you did not take Kotram's gesture in the way that it has been offered. How are both sides ever going to undersatnd each other if these sort of replys are given.



My family are Irish and I know to well about "North" v "South" hatred, at least some kind of normality has returened there and a generation is now growing up to undersand each other. The slaughter went on for over 30 years, and that was even with an army of occupation trying to keep both side apart.



Just remember that their are two sides to every story.....most believe there side to be the right and just one.



So try and have a little love in your heart.



Enjoy the rest of your day,



Resect as usual to one and all.



Patrick.

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 16:49

Kotram is not a Greek Cypriot and the Cyprus problem is not between the foreigners in South Cyprus and Turkish Cypriots in North.



The Cyprus problem is between Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots and as a member of the community that is one of the two major communities of the Island, I have every right to help people living in Southern Cyprus see behind the curtain of propaganda.



The fact that someone calls Southern Cyprus "Cyprus" as if they were the sole owners of Cyprus is enough of a reason to help that person learn some facts about the Cypriot history that are clearly hidden by the Greek Cypriot propaganda machine.



My comment did not contain a single line of hatred against the Greek Cypriots. If you were hurt by anything, please respond to specific parts of my comment.



For example, Is it not true that GC administration is:

*Rejecting to even meet(except for few show meetings) with our elected president for the last 4 years?

*Continuing the isolation of Northern Cyprus? Even preventing our sports people to play a friendly game with their foreign counterparts?

*Calling itself Cyprus although it represents only southern Cyprus.

*Rejecting to issue the EU passport to the foreign wives or children of Turkish Cypriots and their children due to inhuman racial impurity reasons!?!



Please read my comments, understand, watch the documentary and then respond.



The fact that you are from Ireland does not make you an expert in Cyprus problem and reconciliation.

Tiggy 2


Joined: 18/01/2008
Posts: 24

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 19:08

I am twice your age and I was born in England, You were not even born when the conflict of 74 was going on. I remember it and also the kids that came from both sides ending up in my secondary school. Living in North London gave me enought understanding on what was going on. Ireland was at war again since 1969 and I bet you never grew up with parts of London etc being blown up around you on a regular basis.



What I am really trying to say is............look around you, be tolerant and remember it is government's that start all this Sh@t and it's people getting caught by all kinds of propoganda. The truth will always come out.



I have chosen to be part of the North because of it beautiful peolpe and lovely scenery. when I move there I will be part of the country and will expect my rights just like everyone else.



This is also the last time I will talk about this on the forum.

kotram



Joined: 30/01/2008
Posts: 3

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 20:25

hi ..Sorry if i offended anyone!

That was written long ago and i wanted to be politically "safe".

Now that you have mentioned about it, I have corrected the intro.



Why i wrote "'I don't know whether I am allowed to post such things here' was because i was not sure whether i could post links in the post, which some forums equate to advertising and don't allow.

kotram



Joined: 30/01/2008
Posts: 3

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 20:26

hi Alasian..I hope that my post doesnt turn into a political discussion. I had no intention of doing that. I have corrected the writing as soon as it was pointed out and made it neutral (as i don't want to take sides). I am an innocent foreigner who has come to Cyprus to earn a living

I love travelling throughout cyprus and my blog was intended to document this and only this and nothing political.

What i wrote was misunderstood. When i had written "no need to tell ur greek friends" i had intended to be humourous, which i can understand can be wrongly understood. So, i have removed that too.

In fact, in the place i work, there are many cypriots working with me and i don't hesitate a bit to share my experiences on the north side with them. They are the ones who are "supposedly" having a problem, not me.

Hope i have clarified my point. Lets go back to non-political stuff!

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 20:54

hi

whats going on, from a simple gesture i made about kotram's wording has turned in to a full scale poltical debate

alasian i know you are just like me you feel very passianate about our homeland but belive you my friend there is a time and a place to discuss and debate about this, and im sure kotram did not mean any offence and like he said he has since removed this even if he had posted this a long time or recently and there is no need to be so harsh to people unless they deserve it!!!!!

this is not directed to kotram but most expats who live in the south only hear the propagada the greek cypriots bang on about and in most cases whoever gets their story in first they tend to think its the truth and it takes a objective person to listen and judge themselves whats wrong or right

please lets not make people feel unwelcome if they live in the north or the south, turk,greek or british, education and understanding is the key!!!!

and this subject has totally gone right of the subject of kotram posting about his blog and there are not many people out there who makes a blog on both sides of cyprus so well done kotram and if you need any help on any facts of north cyprus please dont hesitate in asking me or any other of the welcoming posters

regards

ukturk

paulnicholas


Joined: 14/01/2007
Posts: 69

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 21:03

Hi kotram,

Welcome to the lions den,i'm sure you didn't mean any harm with your comments but for the turkish cypriots its a bit of a touchy subject,the same with the greek cypriots, most of the neutrals on this forum hope they can settle their differences one day to everyones satisfaction,lets hope its after the elections in the south,i've found the turkish cypriot people to be the most pleasant people i have met which is why i plan to move to northern cyprus as soon as i can.

Remember cyprus as the rest of the world is owned by us brits and we let you live there out of the goodness of our hearts.

All joking aside i hope you havn't been put off by some of the comments and will join in what is a great forum.

Best wishes Paul

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 21:06

Tiggy, you can live in North Cyprus and not know anything about the Cypriot history, that's a legal option you have and you have your right to enjoy your life.



But if you choose to learn about the Cypriot history and try to understand what the Cypriots have been going through; you then would need to be more sensitive for our concerns as in that case you may start discussing these issues.



For the Turkish Cypriots, calling Southern Cyprus as Cyprus is like entering a Hindu temple with a beefburger or a Mosque with a ham sandwich.



You seem to have difficulty in understanding what we are going through when these insulting use of the word Cyprus is made:



*Cyprus in Eurovision is South Cyprus

*Cyprus in UN is South Cyprus

*Cyprus in EU is South Cyprus

*Cyprus in World Cup is South Cyprus

*Cyprus in Olympics is South Cyprus

*Cyprus in Cyprus problem is South Cyprus(as in problem between Cyprus and Turkey like Kotram has said in his blog)



I have tried to make the concepts easier for you through analogies:



Think about it as an Irish person.



Assume that you are watching Eurovision awaiting the Irish singers.



The announcement is made for Europe, but what you see is a French singer elected only by French, but representing the whole of Europe as the French have given their state the name Europe!!!



You then start asking, well We are also from Europe, so howcome We cannot elect a singer of ourselves or how can the French alone call themselves the Europe without our consent.



But there is no reply from the international community. They just ask you to accept French sovereignty over Ireland and become a minority in a French state named Europe which claims to own Europe.



This is what we are going through every single day and Eurovision is the least important example. Notice that the same event is happening everyday in many institutions ranging from EU to UN.



The governments are not stand alone entities, they are elected by people. Just like the Peace Plan that was rejected by the freewill of Greek Cypriots 3 years ago although accepted by the Turkish Cypriots.



I hope you have a very happy life in North Cyprus. Dont let the Cyprus problem spoil your dreams. You dont need to know and worry about Cyprus problem as much as the Cypriots do.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 21:18

Alasian,



No further comment on the above as I advised..



Thanks for wishing me a happy life in North, I also hope you will have all your dreams come true one day.



also respect to paulnicholas.



and not forgetting uturk (peace keeper!).

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 21:23

ukturk hello my friend, long time no see.



Yes, i probably have written an over complicated reply to Kotram's post, but yes we are like each other and I especially cannot help but delve deeply into the problem when i see the reference Cyprus vs Turkey.



Kotram,

I think you have a very nice blog and it is very kind and courageous of you to live in South Cyprus and still have a place for North Cyprus in your blog.



I am also glad that you have been very sensitive and replied immediately.



Thank you for taking our sensitivities into account and you are always welcome to North Cyprus.



What made me write you a long reply is this:



If you have come to this page searching about the Cyprus-Turkey problem,..



which in neutral words is South Cyprus - North Cyprus problem or Greek Cypriot/Turkish Cypriot problem.



http://www.triptocyprus.com/city/north_cyprus/North_Cyprus.php



and the wording "occupation"



Thank you very much once again for taking into account our sensitivities.

livethedream


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 21:27

Alasian - You are obviously very patriotic, but with all due respect, you do not have the right to speak to people with such disrespect (eg. Tiggy2). Of course what has happened on this island has affected your family, as it has mine, but your responses do not show you in a good light. If you wish people to listen to you, you need to show that you are a tolerant and understanding person who wishes to pass on your knowledge, not just put others down. Unfortunately the majority of the world see 'Cyprus' as greek - fact - but this is not the way to change peoples' views.



Kotram - your blog shows North Cyprus in a very good light and you are right - people are worried about their passport being stamped so why shouldn't you pass this information on.



To everyone else, have a good evening.



livethedream

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 21:43

hi guys

tiggy no probs, paul talking about subjects like this in my case does not make me feel touchy but some people do get a bit touchy, ahh yes we shud be gratefull to the british empire letting us live in our home land thank god we did not welcome the british empire with open arms in the early 1900's when they decided to visit turkey for a holiday!!!! LOL LOL

alasian your last paragraph 'You dont need to know and worry about Cyprus problem as much as the Cypriots do' is not a good way to think because us as turkish cypriots do not get heard on the international stage and we need to educate all kind of vistors either them being brits-irish-scots-welsh, europeans so they know what we all went through and not listen to the propaganda because no one likes to listen to trukey and north cyprus does not even get a look in and this is the way our great country will be heard through our foreign vistors voices

this is a message to all of you there is a time and place to talk about politics and the problems with it and this thread is not one of them this is just simply welcoming a new poster who lives in the south to our great forum!!!!!!

so whoever wants to carry this on can do on another thread and if this carries on i will be personally deleting them!!!!!

regards

ukturk (moderator)

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 21:45

livethedream sorry but Where did i speak with disrespect?



The disrespect is calling Southern Cyprus, "Cyprus" as if we do not exist and we are not one of two equal owners of this island.



Another disrespect is exactly what you are doing right now and trying to teach a Cypriot manners as if you were a colony officer.



This reference will always get the same response from Turkish Cypriots whether you like it or not. We are not colonial subjects that you are teaching manners and how to talk. Behave yourself please.

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 21:47

You are right ukturk, we should make our voice heard. But if we try to dispense too much information in too little a time, like my long comment, people may simply opt to not read and learn but rather use personal insults to show their wisdom!

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 22:05

some people have got blinkers on or dont want to hear the truth and you should have been around when the below post was goin on the other day

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/1269.asp

people did not want to hear the truth so they resorted with abuse, but this is not the case on this thread because i know tiggy, livingthedream,paul and yourself are clued up on the cyprus situation so there is no need to go down the road of tit for tat, he said she said argument

and this should stop now before this gets out of hand or like i said i will be deleting posts

thank you

ukturk

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 22:10

p.s regards to you all

now please can we move on!!!!!!!

paulnicholas


Joined: 14/01/2007
Posts: 69

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 22:17

Ukturk and everyone else who has expressed opions on this subject,most of us non cypriots on this forum are well aware of what took place in cyprus and would hope you can all settle your differences but its pretty obvious that people buying property in northern cyprus have already done some research and like myself are very happy to live alongside turkish cypriots and hope that they are happy to the same.

We have decided to spend our money in the north and have been made very welcome.

This forum has been very helpful to me and lots of other people and thats the side you should be showing others.

Best wishes Paul.

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 22:30

ukturk,I saw that thread but when i had time to post it was not on the first page any more. I have read it now and it seems you also have had a briefing about the Cyprus Problem and how to comment!

Dont give up mate, you are doing a great job in both helping people and helping our voice get heard.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 22:34

hi guys

paul long time no hear where you been matey!!!

thank you for your kind words alasian you havent posted on here for some time where have you been,

tiggy i see you have managed to get back to your normal self does this mean tiggy 2 is gone

livingthedream you see i let you have the last say!!!!! lol

and finally kotram please dont let this small hicup put you of this forum, you are more than welcome on this forum and like i said if you need any help or info please dont hesitate in posting

regards to you all

ukturk

paulnicholas


Joined: 14/01/2007
Posts: 69

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 22:41

Hi ukturk,

Yeah like a lot of people i stopped using this forum when the posts got nasty,i just hope it doesn't decline to that level again.

Best wishes Paul.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 22:47

hi matey

what posts are you talking about? you mean the ones directed at me that could not handle my view, if you or anyone have any complaints tell me and ill try and not let this happen because im a moderator now so any abuse or insults they will be warned or have their posts removed

take care

ukturk

paulnicholas


Joined: 14/01/2007
Posts: 69

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 23:07

Ukturk,

Some people use this and other forums as a political soapbox and as a means of scoring points over others when that happens most of us tend to switch off.

Paul.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 23:15

Yo Erkan....Tiggy here...I remembered my sign in details!! only problem is I have now forgotten Tiggy 2 details now!!



Been a bit of a day on the forum! Still one thing, it is loved by most and all the info that is dished out is 1st class.



Look forward to meeting some of the users in the future.



We are flying out on 31st May to 11th June. Gatwick.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
30/01/2008 23:36

hi paul

i know where you are coming from, i try not to get dragged into political arguments but sometimes im guilty as the next man especially when people have got their heads in the clouds and post dribble, there is defo a time and place to get into these debates!!!!

yo-yo tiggy theres just no winning with you is there, one min you forget your tiggy1 details then you forget tiggy2 details!!!! lol

yeah i have seen it has been a bit of a day on the forum, but at least im here now on my peacekeeping mission especially when i know the people who are argueing!!!! makes a change when im in the middle of the argument!!!! lol

warm regards to the both of you

ukturk