Direct Flights goes to the High Court

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 20:54

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-197895457.html



Fingers crossed for a fair and just hearing with a productive ending.God knows good news is needed for the north,

Paul.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 20:58

Paul, when you open the link it takes you to a search engine!

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 21:02

Works for me No1

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 21:20

Paul



You forget *WHY* the UK can't allow direct flights.. it's part of the non recognition of "TRNC"..

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 21:22

Here we go !



*pulls up a chair*



Welcome back Mark.....seriously

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 21:25

But Mark,



you keep telling us NC is recognised as part of the EU.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 21:50

Dear Rob - re msg 6



<<<>>



Have you been drinking or smoking something? !

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 21:53

Are CTA allowed to land at Larnaca ?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 22:03

re msg 9



If CTA is "registered" in "TRNC " No... I would like to see the day when Turkish / Cypriot airlines can land in each others airports..:(



As you may know TR signed the Ankara Accord - allowing all EU states ships and planes to use TR's ports and airports - but TR continues to exclude the RoC saying it does not "recognise" it .. yet it managed to "recognise it and fly the flag during the time it hosted the Eurovision Song contest !! ;)



BTW - watch out for ICELAND ;)

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 22:09

"BTW - watch out for ICELAND ;) "



Are they opening a store in Girne ?

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 22:10

So whats the difference between Stanstead, Birmingham, Manchester and Larnaca.............

from a CAA point of view

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 22:22

Dear Turtle



it's all to do with "TRNC" being "legally invalid" as far as the UN are concerned - the RoC nominates the international airports and Ercan/Tymbou is not nominated by the RoC



The RoC will also say that they are responsible for the airspace - but can't **control* it...



You won't see Cyprus Turkish Airlines as a member, either - so there'll be "insurance" issues..



http://www.iata.org/membership/airline_members_list.htm

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 22:31

Mark I understand all that but just because there is a touch down in Turkey from Ercan I take it the UK accept the flight is from Turkey and just ignore it originated from Ercan, very convienient for the UK airports to collect money from TRNC albeit via Turkey.





As for the Ankara Accord what about the EU promise to lift embargoes to TRNC in return for a yes vote from the North in 2004.......seems all one way AGAIN

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 22:46

tURTLE..I assume it then becomes an indirect flight,having touched down in Turkey.That would be my definition but not necessarily the true definition.Some say it is a direct flight if you do not change planes,irrespective of how many times you land and take off.When I flew to India we landed in Bahrein,but it was classified as a direct flight.No doubt some one in higher authority will clear it all up eventually...



PS..We still playing Premiership football next year...

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 22:52

Hi Coachie hope you are well.



Premiership....remember the bookie paying out in September saying your going down must have cost him a few quid ?



As for the flights its a big load of poo, in my opinion its not about rules and laws its about just one country having the balls to allow direct flights and upsetting ROC simple as that.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 22:53

Hiya coachie and my lovely turtle. Its all about the insuance. as an unregonizrd country Guiness Peat or whomever does insurance could not underwrite it. As for landing fees well I guess thats anybodys guess here. I had an email from No 10 today as I signed the petition. Sit on a fence or what. Back to square one xxxxx

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 22:56

Re: Sonic msg 7.



Cyprus Turkish Airlines is an airline registered in Turkey. Just like Turkish Airlines, Pegasus Airlines, and dozens of others. The aircraft are all registered in Turkey, with registration TC-xxx.



Please explain why you believe the planes can be confiscated by UK courts? Do you think they'll also confiscate all of Turkish Airlines fleet of 132 aircraft, and Pegasus Airlines fleet of 20 aircraft too?



Remember, CTA flies from UK to Turkey legally. Then from Turkey to Ercan legally. They are breaking no laws!

At the same time, the aircraft are all leased from major aircraft leasing companies who have no problems with the operation.



Remember, last time the GCs got ideas above thier station in the 60s and 70s, they lost the best half of the island. They are continuously agitating the situation and it will backfire on them again.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 23:03

Please read what I wrote on the lunatics forum in December 2006 http://69.16.253.89/cyprus8484-20.html

ismet

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 23:06

You can go directly to the article!



http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=254369

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 23:08

Hi Ismet



re 19



I've read it and it's now 2009 - the only "hot" thing happening to ex Pres Liealotopoulus was the GC electorate booted him out.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 23:09

Ha Ha lunatics forum............like it ismet

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
13/05/2009 23:46

It clearly is time that direct flights were permitted. It is yet another example of the unfair treatment of the TRNC.

Most Forum members are very aware of the International non-recognition of TRNC status. mmmmm will spout this fact to us for years to come.

It is clear that some world political entities have acknowledged the need for a resolution to the Cyprus problem.

The UN, USA, UK powers appear somewhat closer to revising current resolutions in order to allow an element of freedom to the beleagured TRNC.

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
14/05/2009 00:42

Msg 15



The term direct flight implies you stay on the same plane, indirect that you change planes.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
14/05/2009 01:05

Hi all,

I posted the link because i have on numerous occassions spouted on about the fact that direct flights will be debated in 2009.The link was posted just to prove my point to some people on here who ridiculed the fact that i even dare to mention the fact that direct would even be on anyones agenda.I havent got a clue what will happen on May 18th as i am not privvey to High Court stuff.But what a kick in the teeth it would be to all those people (some on this forum) that only want the north to sink deeper and deeper into obscurity,shame on you and why are you frightened of fair competition.



My personal view is that Turkey and northern Cyprus will become one, hear hear,goodbye to the gcs who have no intention of concessions.So direct flights will happen anyway as Turkey will raise two fingers to the e.u. and tell them that they will only become members on their terms.The e.u. will back down due to the fact that Turkey have so much strategic power.Watch this space,

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
14/05/2009 01:08

Bill mess 2 did you get the link matey,

Paul.

cornish



Joined: 30/12/2008
Posts: 186

Message Posted:
14/05/2009 01:14

mmmmmmmmmmm



Direct flights are not prohibited by anything other than GC intransigence. Please look up the reasons for any country not having direct international flights.



Perhaps the CIA - can tell you ??

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
14/05/2009 13:19

sonic,



The argument of CTA is that the UK gov has misinterpreted the Chicago Convention.

This does in fact give the UK gov the opportunity to be a little more even handed by conceding that they may have indeed misinterpreted it (even if they haven't) and find in CTAs favour.

The EU and UK have said they are trying hard to ease the isolation of the TRNC and this is a golden opportunity for the UK to cut them some slack whilst gently pulling on the rug under the GCs.

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
14/05/2009 13:58

At some point the UK/WORLD/EU will see that the GCs do not want to reach a settlement with the TCs.



At some point Turkey/TRNC will start explaining to the world that in order for the 2 sides to be equal, TRNC would need isolation lifted to enable economy/tourism to grow. GCs do not allow the steps to be taken to allow TRNC to reach an equal footing with ROC to enable a Federation.

flutterby


Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 214

Message Posted:
14/05/2009 14:12

I have on a couple of occasions been aboard flights destined for Ercan via Turkey, only to have flight numbers changed mid air, and no touch down in Turkey. So it CAN be done. Makes more economical sense though to stop in at a Turkish airport, drop off passengers, take on some more, if possible, or wait a minute, if not any passengers to drop off or pick up, or not enough, is it worth the fuel for a land and take off???

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
14/05/2009 14:36

Flutterby,

I take your point there but dont you think that it puts people off when they have to land in Turkey sit on the runway for 45 mins and then take off again,

G.

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
14/05/2009 16:17

- London to Larnaca = 4 hours 30 minutes. 1 take off. 1 landing.

- London to Ercan = 6 hours. 2 take offs. 2 landings



Ofcourse, people would prefer to save 1 hour 30 minutes and the additional landing/take off. We all tolerate it as it's our country.



Quite simply, if the ROC / GCs had not voted against the Annan plan which was supported by UN/EU/USA and globally, then we would be flying to Ercan in 4 hours 30 minutes!



It seems unjust and unfair that the situation now exists due to ROC not willing to share and give Turkish Cypriots their rights.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
14/05/2009 20:50

Lets see how it goes on May 18th.Fingers crossed,

Paul.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
14/05/2009 21:26

RE msg 1 and 4 > You forget *WHY* the UK can't allow direct flights.. it's part of the non recognition of "TRNC". <



=> Exactly, Mark. Some posters should read more about the backgrounds and believe less in local fairy tales.



P.S. 6xm should be banned from this board because he doesn't accept the legality of the TRNC ( Rule number 5). But the Board Manager and the Admins don't take the board rules serious - only if it suits them. - HD

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
14/05/2009 21:32

Dutch,

Havent forgotton why at all. Time for the high court to change the ruling which would be the first step to the recognition of the trnc.Time to think outside the box too much negativety on here,

Paul.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
14/05/2009 21:42

RE msg 36, newlad > Time for the high court to change the ruling <



=> The UK High Court is a non-important player in this global play. Decisive decisions about "direct flights" are not made in the UK and if the UK think the UK can do it, the UK will be overruled by higher authorities. Not that I like it, but that's the fact of life today.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
14/05/2009 22:06

Paul. I was able to open the link. It won't be long now until we get the 'direct' (without stopping) flights to Ercan.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
15/05/2009 01:20

Bill,

Optimism of the highest order my friend and i take my hat of to you even though am not wearing one,

Paul.

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
15/05/2009 02:54

Bill - message 38 and Paul - message 39. This bloody debate has been going on for as long as I have visited the TRNC - and longer. That's some 18/19 years.

Bill - you know I hold you in high regard and think of you as a 'cyber' friend, but, my friend, this discussion has been going on for years and years. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN. Sorry to shout, but, unless the 'Talks' throw up some major changes (don't hold your breath) nothing will change!



Bill, I admire your optimism about all things TRNC (and, to be honest, I wish I were more like you in this regard) but I see myself as a realist (all right, a cynic) and, having been a visitor/home owner for quite a long time, I, personally have only seen things get worse (from my point of view, that is).



18 years ago, you could put the news on and hear "direct flights to TRNC imminent" - "huge influx of tourists, etc. etc. When they opened the "border/green line" whatever, Paul phoned me at work to tell me that the cont'd

The-Wicks


Joined: 27/05/2007
Posts: 2279

Message Posted:
15/05/2009 03:01

cont'd



cont'd

value of our humble holiday apartment will have doubled (at least) overnight, I was cautious, to say the least!



Unfortunately, I have been proved correct. I make no apologies to say that I wish we had never bought a place in TRNC and I, personally, would never do so again. Paul, however, would disagree with me 100%.



And Bill - my friend - stop worrying! As I said in my e-mail!!



With all good wishes to yourself and Mrs Bill



Jean

x

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/05/2009 09:27

Jean. My head knows you are correct but my heart keep's saying otherwise. I'm hoping like the reat of us.



Regards to Paul. Is he busy in the kitchen? )

canyavuz


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 363

Message Posted:
15/05/2009 14:42

A funny but possible solution to put the UK gov under pressure.



Get a bunch of friends of the earth supporters to protest infornt of the highcourt about how the Turkey stopovers are polluting the word unnecesarily.



doubt this would work, but would be funny.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
17/05/2009 22:35

Monday My 18th.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
17/05/2009 22:36

lol,wish it was my 18th,

Paul.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
17/05/2009 22:41

Come on then Paul what do you reckon tommorow

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
17/05/2009 23:12

Turtle

It aint going to happen tomorrow, give it a month before a decision is made. By the way the GC's are doing their usual thing again, a massive lobbying of MP's. etc. Re-unification? I don't think so.

clarets



Joined: 08/01/2009
Posts: 752

Message Posted:
17/05/2009 23:25

DC talking out of his afterburner again. House of Lords still the highest authority in the UK mate. Certain things CAN be decided in EU courts and others NOT.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
19/05/2009 22:27

Tats,

Wish i had a crystal ball mate,

Paul.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
19/05/2009 22:35

http://yeshimdeniz.sys-con.com/node/964595



Another view,

Paul.

twoexpats


Joined: 09/04/2009
Posts: 189

Message Posted:
20/05/2009 09:51

Does anyone have any news?

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
20/05/2009 11:43

The case is only part heard, and is due to end Thursday. The verdict is due in a couple of months.



All we know is that the case is Cyprus Turkish Airlines v. Secretary for Transport and is being heard before Mr Justice Wyn Williams.



CTA have hired a barrister who specialises in aviation to put forward the case. The barrister is Charles Haddon-Cave QC.

tommy13


Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 979

Message Posted:
20/05/2009 11:47

newlad re message 25. good on you mate .. i like what you say

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
20/05/2009 11:55

tommy12 / newlad re message 25. Yes totally agree.



The Turkish / Turkish Cypriot government will only put up with 2 faced politics and double standards from EU for so long. Even that is with the hope they'll be able to explain their point of view and get a fair response.



At some point they'll realise that the EU organisation is biased and corrupt beyond change by all the Greek judges and politics.



The EU will need to decide whether to continue backing the 12 Million Greeks & Greek Cypriots cause and propaganda, or to start given due to the so far unfairly treated 70 Million Turks.

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
20/05/2009 12:02

On another point, the Turkish Cypriots are showing signs that they are completely fed up of the broken promises, embargoes, and ROC biased politics from the EU. The outcome of the CTA direct flights case will be another chance for Turkish Cypriots to evaluate their options.



Although TRNC is unrecognised, the Turkish Cypriot electorate are recognised the right to express their democratic rights in referendum. E.g. Annan and any subsequent.



It would not suprise me if the Turkish Cypriots are driven to a referendum at some point, a referendum with a similar outcome to the one in 1939 held in the Republic of Hatay! See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatay_Province

aviator


Joined: 27/05/2009
Posts: 1

Message Posted:
27/05/2009 14:51

I believe there will be commencement of direct flights.



Part of the rationale of this is that the UK goverment does not want to make a decision on the premise that it could be seen as a political decision.



This is why they have referred it to the courts to decide.



Quite rightly all the prominent legal eagles have stated that it does not go against the Chicago convention, which is the main crux of the argument the government of southern cyprus uses to object to direct flights.



Taiwain has direct flights and is not legally recognised.



I believe that direct flights should commence, it can only increase the prosperity of the north, and result in better living standards, which in turn means a less intrasigent government in power.

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
29/05/2009 18:22

just read article in londra(london turkish gazette) CTA and direct hollidays have been given "positive indication" they have been succesfull and that its gone well, lets hope they are but you watch the greeks come up with something to stop it