How safe is it to purchase an old cypriot house?

laptajack


Joined: 04/10/2008
Posts: 95

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 14:10

I know there are some very well informed people that post on this board and i was wondering if they could give me an 'informed' answer to my question.

What are the consequences (future settlements etc) of purchasing an old cyprus property (previously greek owned) that has exchange title deeds and has been/is occupied by a Turkish family.

Are there any legal differences to this purchase, than say buying exchange land?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 16:48

laptajack:

It is no better nor worse,if you've seen it,liked it,price is good...... I'd say "buy it and enjoy it"

specialy if you have your PTP

harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 17:11

i would suggest you take advice from linda orams not some local.



or you could ask the british high commision.



by the way there is no such thing as exchange land an exchange is when both owners agree

cypwine


Joined: 09/05/2009
Posts: 177

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 17:15

msg 1



If it is a Gc owned property it is illegal for anyone to sell it or even live in it without the consent of the Gc..take harryroberts advice before you doing anything that could find you in hot water.

harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 17:29

he wont take my advice he will go ahead and purchase because the locals will tell him how the greeks murdered tcs someone will give him a copy of the genocide files comic. which aparantly if you read gives you the urge to go and buy property in the north.



Lapta jack honestly do yourself a favour do not purchase anything in the north without internationally reconised title deeds.



warning the purchase of exchange land and greek owned property can seriously damage your wealth

laptajack


Joined: 04/10/2008
Posts: 95

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 18:00

Harry/Cypwine,



Many thanks for your response.

I have read the genocide files, i wouldnt say it was a comic though, how ever i am not on the board to argue with any one, just trying to get some information. Thanks for your advice.

laptajack


Joined: 04/10/2008
Posts: 95

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 18:35

Has the original owner not been compensated with alternative property or land in the south then?

Pogle


Joined: 28/08/2008
Posts: 1536

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 18:43

Laptajack

We have purchased a TRNC title old Cypriot house in Lapta, I will share our experiences with you if you would like to email me off board.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 18:48

It is possible to search the ROC land registry in Nicosia to find who (if any)may have an ROC title on the said property. It may be that they are now deceased and title is intestate. I asume that the property has TRNC title it is this the de-facto document that carries significant creedence.

Some research will put you in a better position to assess the risk and make a decision.

Of course some menbers will expect all previously occupied property to be left empty and to decay until some long lost GC emerges and moves back in.

Considering that the property was presumably vacated some 35 years ago the chances are that the previous owner is now deceased. If there is a GC somewhere that you can identify as a title holder.Then you may consider some sort of financial offer to cover his burden. At least the property appears in use and housing someone.



The options need to be considered. analyse the risk and act accordingly.

Good luck.

laptajack


Joined: 04/10/2008
Posts: 95

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 18:51

Thats good of you Pogle,do you have an email address?

teatime


Joined: 20/10/2008
Posts: 852

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 19:01

Laptajack

You will be better off talking to pogle off this forum, as you seem to have brought out all the slugs from under their stones. Good luck and if you do buy enjoy your house and the TRNC.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 19:02

re msg3



harryroberts/whoever you are

I was in uk long enough to learn enough english,so that I can tell the likes of you where to go and what to do

with yourselves and your comments .

laptajack:I apologise for my comments above to some people and also going out of topic

I have 2 propertys in nortern cyprus,both on "previusly greek own lands and I would challenge anybody to try to take them of me

Both bought and paid for in full,with title deeds

laptajack


Joined: 04/10/2008
Posts: 95

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 19:02

waz-24-7

Thanks for your reply, i will look into that.

laptajack


Joined: 04/10/2008
Posts: 95

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 19:09

no problem Yorgozlu, thanks for your input.

I have been reading this board from almost day one, and was a memebr of the old MSM board, so i know what the banter can be like. How ever it is a great source of information, and your posative reply is much appreciated.

madturk


Joined: 25/03/2009
Posts: 217

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 19:50

lost geezer msg 11. if 4 times as many greeks moved south.where are they living. with friends and families.

or on turkish land, which i might hazzard a guess ,which could of been sold to a builder.

just a thought

harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 19:59

re msg3







harryroberts/whoever you are



I was in uk long enough to learn enough english,so that I can tell the likes of you where to go and what to do



with yourselves and your comments .



laptajack:I apologise for my comments above to some people and also going out of topic



I have 2 propertys in nortern cyprus,both on "previusly greek own lands and I would challenge anybody to try to take them of me



Both bought and paid for in full,with title deeds









your deeds are mickey mouse bet you money was real though.

harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 20:03

Has the original owner not been compensated with alternative property or land in the south then?





short answer NO

Pogle


Joined: 28/08/2008
Posts: 1536

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 20:25

Laptajack,

melaniepartington@hotmail.com

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 20:38

The owner of the house be it North or South will, according to the ECHR, be the GC/TC owner that held the original title deeds pre 74.



Buy only if you are prepared to take a risk with your money. But do so knowing what the consequences might be.There are no guarantees or assurances that the property you buy will not be returned to the true owner or his next of kin at a later date.



Do some research on what has happened with the Orams. Listen to facts not guesses and wishful solutions.Then, and only then, can you make an informed decision.

Good Luck

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 20:50

Nice one teatime.......slugs....more than apt.

laptajack


Joined: 04/10/2008
Posts: 95

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 20:55

Thanks Pogle, my wife is emailing you now.



Thanks Bradus, i am doing my research you wouldnt believe how long we have been deliberating!

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
12/07/2009 21:03

re msg18

" mickey mouse" is good enough for me,if thats what you'd like to call it



















































































































































































































"CHALLENGE"still on

harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 00:14

no challenge yorgozlu

your right no one can come and take your properties from you 40000 turkish troops is obviously good protection.



but the international courts could judge against you and cause you a problem if you have assets in the EU.



to advise brits to go and buy property in the trnc is wrong especially when the british high commision warns of the perils and certainly after the Orams case.



your obviously proud that you have purchased property that legally does not belong to you.and im sure there are some expats who feel the same as you.



your deeds may not be mickey mouse to you but according to international law they are not worth the paper their written on.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 00:28

re msg 25





"challenge" is with me and not the 40000 turkish troops

dont have assets in eu,so put your mind at ease(well not in my name anyway)

did not advice anyone to do anything as everyone has their own mind

very proud to have purchesed 2 properties tht are legal in my country

And I'm so glad that "PIGS DONT FLY"

harryroberts


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 00:52

yorgozlu



did not advice anyone to do anything as everyone has their own mind





laptajack:



(It is no better nor worse,if you've seen it,liked it,price is good...... I'd say "buy it and enjoy it")





your not telling the truth are you?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 01:13

harryroberts





I had seen them ,liked them,the prices were good











and guess what!!!!!?

















I HAD BOUGHT THEM













isint that what you did as well?











or DID SOMEONE FORCE YOU TO BUY?

laptajack


Joined: 04/10/2008
Posts: 95

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 01:15

Dont worry harryroberts i asked for advice, and i have received some very good information from this thread.



Many thanks to all and i wish you a good evening.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 02:28

nev and jane,



harry roberts and cypwine post regularly in support of the nationalist gc case

it is a fact that some former gc occupiers hold parallel ownership documents



despite regular threats contrasting oddly with clumsy pleas for sympathy

there is precious little sign of any properties being handed over in north cyprus



why is this?



firstly the trnc is ably defended by a powerful turkish army contingent,

which arrived in 1974 to rescue the turkish cypriots

now extended with 100,000 turkish settlers also enjoying security of tenure



secondly you can buy or sell in the north on a local basis via trnc documents:

any south cyprus "ownership" paper has no equivalent currency



thirdly the two peoples of cyprus are "talking", but have mutually exclusive

and contradictory objectives so you may expect few surprises



hmg has issued important warnings both regarding north cyprus,

as well as the south of cyprus where the many crooked developers have had a field day

MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 10:50

There is no way I would buy a ex GC house - buy a Pre-74 TC property or a new build on previously un-developed land would be my advice



Mark

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
13/07/2009 15:52

mark message 31,



what you say looks very sensible, but as always it may not be the whole story



a big problem is what really was pre-july 1974 roc title "owned" by cypriot turks:

thirtyfiveyears ago that may have comprised just eight percent of the entire island

and many properties may really be the far cheaper and more popular trnc-title



you must decide whether there is any security problem in buying a former gc house,

although despite biased judgements from partisan eurocourts the gc may not succeed

or citing a worst-possible scenario, certainly not move to north cyprus to ever live there



with new-builds on scrubland, there is a serious hazard of finding the dream holiday home

secretly mortgaged by your builder and therefore cannot be "legally" yours:

a problem that has hit the 100,000-plus investors and kicked up a stink in south cyprus



a "final cyprus settlement" could make the buyer liable for compo

though any agreement would likely double property values too

littlejohn


Joined: 09/03/2009
Posts: 316

Message Posted:
14/07/2009 01:34

There's always a risk in trying to make "a quick buck" wherever it is !!

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
14/07/2009 08:51

lj.



yes of course!



if a legalistic invasion ever really got going values would fall,

although they cannot have much further to go



as regards business-style risk-taking europe to east and south is plagued with problems:

a colleague lost 130k in spain, more than half the purchase price when her builder went "bankrupt"

the value destination of bulgaria is plagued by unfinished developments,

and don't start us talking about mortgage scams in north and south cyprus



seriously, I don't see the two sides in cyprus really any closer to an accord

so the idea of a property golden october (also the name of an eu-funded german wine)

is only nearer with the use of a powerful telescope



then again mark mmmmmm who is steeped in these matters (cyprus, not the wine)

suggested that an actual deal could see gc claimants receiving a rubber-stamped piece of paper

confirming their"ownership" but only for use at some future date (or sooner for a tummy upset)



hope I don't misquote him

pinkfluffytin



Joined: 02/08/2009
Posts: 10

Message Posted:
26/09/2009 00:05

Hi, could you give me some information about purchasing an old house, i see you have experience around this. thanks. if you wish you can E.mail tinababe@orange.net

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
26/09/2009 00:34

I know this is just inviting abuse but here goes.



Surely if you have purchased a house within all the legal standings of the existing government it is legal. I realise that this government might not be recognised internationally but they are in charge at the moment and until that changes they are making the decisions. If and when that changes the rules may also change but then surely you can rightfully say I bought this house legally from the ruling government at the time.

I know there will be all sorts of statements about the Orams and dates and esdegers and so on but if it were as simple as everyone assumes then why has the Oram's case gone on for so long.

I am all for advising people about situations that you have been through with reagrds to this situation but as nobody has actually had to pay compensation, knock down there house or give the land back then it is all just speculation.

It was a simple question with an unknown answer, I hope they got some good advice off board

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
26/09/2009 01:00

Paul



What are the international ramifications of retrospective legislation? Seems even the UK is getting on the bandwagon on this one!



Richard

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
26/09/2009 01:14

I think even that is still speculation Richard. I know it is the question that everyone in NC would like answered, lets face it even those that have bought pre 74 turkisk title homes are interested because house prices could go up, down and sideways dependant on the decision.

My personal viewpoint is that until something happens that we can all live by then all else is just rumours and there are so many people on here criticise others for their beliefs when that is all people have at the moment on either side of the fence, beliefs.



Only time will tell !!!!

AlexF065


Joined: 07/09/2009
Posts: 271

Message Posted:
26/09/2009 01:55

to the original poster i would say this

As a person also looking to buy i have discovered these things

1) only pre 74 land

2) A property that is already built ie a resale

3) rent fo a while as well it also advisable and i think it is also advisable to chooses your advocate well as it seems many cannot be trusted

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
26/09/2009 02:03

Msg 39



1) Doesn't matter



2) Preferable



3a) Yes



3b) None can be trusted, try an accountant





Richard

hilda


Joined: 10/09/2009
Posts: 80

Message Posted:
26/09/2009 19:22

Why dont you buy a lottery ticket,at least you might get something back for your money

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
26/09/2009 20:37

Mess 3 - the Neg Nick "tell them how it is" post of the week...



Well done Harry...

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
26/09/2009 20:41

Buy the house, its as safe as houses.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
26/09/2009 21:58

Laptajack/Msg1:



If you check, you'll find that it is illegal for a GC to exchange or sell his property in TRNC. I lived in Paphos for 25 years, and I've witnesses all the parlarva and condfidence tricks relating to the sale of 'old stone/mud brick built houses. The problem lies in the number of Cypriots whose names are on the Kocan (Greek Kocani).



Where is the problem?



The problem is that unless ALL the people on the Kocan sign the Contract of Sale prior to it going to the Council of Ministers for approval for PTP (Permission to Purchase), the sale (to you) cannot be accepted.



Why? - Because some of those people (living) may be in UK, South Africa, Australia, Canada, etc - so, how the Hell are you going to contact them all to sign the agreement of sale; i.e., the 'Contract of Sale' - answer: Impossible!



Therefore, you may (in your enthusiasm!) have paid the full asking price but because the 'Contract of Sale' is basically a 'flawed document', you will NEVER own it.

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
26/09/2009 22:19

mess 5 is a contender for "Neg Nick post of the week"



here were you when my estate agent filled my head with total garbage...



and i agree with you, for an exchange to have any validility, both owners should be part of the transaction....





as Garry Monger's Missus says "we came, we saw, we got kippered...."

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
27/09/2009 10:57

Lostgeezer/Msg7:



In just a few words, you have absolutely 'put it in a nutshell'!

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
27/09/2009 14:11

msg 46;

"Lostgeezar/Msg7:"

"In just few words,you have put absolutely 'put it in a nutshell'



I wonder,what Lostgeezars comments would be about those things taking place in 'southern part' of the island.

ie. Bent Greek builder,selling a property to an ex-pat,and remortgaging it after...1000s not getting their 'title deeds'.....!!!!!



hmmmmmmm!!!

"2Wrongs never make 1 wright',but at the same time,1 must not forget the fact that it is no different 'where they are'





I suppose,I could sum it up with an english saying;



"SAME SHIT,DIFFERENT PLACE"

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
27/09/2009 15:08

You've got it again - in one, Yorgozlu - in fact, you probably read my Msg44, which said at the beginning what the risk of buying a stone house in RoC is.



The same would apply here, except that if you part with your money, you've only bought a worthless 'Contract of Sale' - i.e., nothing - rather like a turd with the sh!t scraped off!

MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
27/09/2009 16:57

I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole



I know it's "exchange" property but there is too much emotion involved in a home a displaced family once lived in.



Mark

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
27/09/2009 22:02

msg 50,Lostgeezar;

Nobody bought stolen land in TRNC from anybody,unles of course,you are going back pre 20/07/1974.



here is a question for you;

"Both of us at a table,having a game of cards,with money(gambling).And I LOSE.

Would you feel sorry for me and give me my money back,that I had lost fair and square?"



I give you my answer,had that question been from you to me.

NO,ON YOUR BIKE SONNY

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
27/09/2009 23:35

The GC's certainly took a 'gamble' (trying to wipe out the TC's) - and lost.



They bet on Makarios and his cohorts - they bet on Enosis - and lost.



They're now betting on continuing support from the 'outside world' - but the 'o w' has seen through their subterfuge and propaganda.



Their only card left to play is the 'Orams card' - and now that they are in the process of suing UK, they are playing a very risky game.



Turkey hasn't shown any aggression since the 'peace intervention' - but the RoC tried, and spectacularly failed, to bring the S300 Russian missiles. Do they really think people have forgotten such 'sabre rattling' tactics?