Good Friday

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
10/04/2008 09:12

I have been reading with interest some of the threads speculating on what could happen if there was some sort of re-unification in Cyprus.



Perhaps we should look at Northern Ireland to see exactly what can happen when two communities with different ideas are forced to live together. Its 10 years since the Good Friday agreement was signed with the intention of bringing together both protestants and catholics hopefully to forever live in peace.



Unfortunately its not working, there are now four times as many "peace walls" in place seperating communities than there was 10 years ago, sectarian attacks are also on the increase although now not deemed newsworthy.I spoke with a friend who used to live in the shankhill area during the 70's and still has relatives in Northern Ireland and according to him some of the poorer housing estates are as bad now as they were then.



Is it not possible in Cyprus that by putting both TC's and GC's together in manufactured communities that all the old hatreds at sometime won't spill over into violence. I personally feel that this could be very dangerous and would do nothing to improve the Island.



Surely it would be better to work on getting the North recognised as an independant state and from that base things such as compensation for any lands lost etc could

be addressed properly and fairly without borders and peace walls.



Jim

sjw1979


Joined: 09/04/2007
Posts: 162

Message Posted:
10/04/2008 09:52

Unfortunately its not working, there are now four times as many "peace walls" in place seperating communities than there was 10 years ago, sectarian attacks are also on the increase although now not deemed newsworthy.I spoke with a friend who used to live in the shankhill area during the 70's and still has relatives in Northern Ireland and according to him some of the poorer housing estates are as bad now as they were then.





Hi Jim, I'm guessing that you do not live here in Northern Ireland or have probably never even been to visit !!!

Things have came on leaps and bounds here, and its definately not the way you are describing it anymore. Yes there are peace walls still in place, but I just watched a programme 2 nights ago on how they were going to start taking them down. Certainly there are people from both sides of the community who will never accept the other side and will do anything to provoke them in any chance they get, but the majority of the working class ordinary people have either never have been that interested in fighting with the opposition or have moved on and have more important things in their life. I have friends from both sides of the communities and none of them were ever into fighting or hatred. I also grew up with a boy who went unto be a leader in an illegal organisation. Things were pretty different here. Yes there was different areas for the both sides to live in, not different countries, the catholics were never forced to flee and live in the republic of ireland.

Anyway hopfully things will never go back to the way they were in the 70's / 80's, like you described them

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
10/04/2008 11:08

Hi Sarajane



I have been to Belfast and I would say that it feels like any other city in the UK and I felt safe there. What I am saying is that there are more walls being built which is a fact not a wild statement.



Again the problems within the poorer estates are probably no different from cities on the mainland but the fact remains that the level of sectarian crime is still unacceptable as I'm sure you will be well aware of after the recent killing of a young teenager his only apparent crime wearing a celtic shirt in the wrong place.



Lets get one thing straight I REALLY have no desire to get embroiled in a political debate regarding Northern Ireland I'm sure there must be plenty of forums dealing with that already.



My point is that bringing together two people divided by religion, culture whatever is HUGELY difficult and very rarely works especially if its created for the wrong reasons ie political gain.



My fear for Cyprus is that any agreement steamrollered through for the purpose of satisfying world leaders would be wrong as it just would not address the real issues within the population, any lasting agreement must be based on parity between both sides and this can only happen when the North arrives at the negotiating table as a recognised entity



Jim.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
10/04/2008 11:24

hi guys

for my thoughts on a unified cyprus take a look at this

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/2109.asp message 8 and 13

warm regards

ukturk

sjw1979


Joined: 09/04/2007
Posts: 162

Message Posted:
10/04/2008 12:25

Fair enough Jim, however things that the media want to be shown will be and alot of factual information will not, its easy for alot of people to make judgement who do not live here.

Anyway no, I'm not getting into any arguments, like you I too want a solution to Cyprus and as I said before it does remind me of NI.

Where is your place in NC ? Maybe we will meet at a bar someday and continue this debate over an efes ;)

talk care x

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
10/04/2008 12:52

Hi Sarajane



Your dead right when you say the media is a powerful tool and I agree its easy to make assumptions from a distance. Belfast is a very beautiful city which has come on leaps and bounds over the last decade as has Dublin which I have also been to many times en route to visiting friends in Limerick.



We have a villa in Alsancak not very far away from the Denizkizi Hotel which makes it very handy for the Grumpy Grouse and Kate O'reillys. We are coming over on the 16th for a break and if your in the area i would be delighted to buy you a drink before we lock horns!!!!



Cheers



Jim.

Naas26


Joined: 23/04/2007
Posts: 128

Message Posted:
10/04/2008 14:27

Jim,



Funny that you mention Limerick but currently there is a drug gang war going on with tit for tat killing, beatings and so on happening. Working at times quite regularly in North over the last twenty years I have seen many changes for the good. Belfast and Derry are now thriving with lots of re-development and new areas popping up all over. In normal day to day living things have moved on and both sides of the community are working together to build a better future for themselves and their families.. While in Politics even though there is a polarization happening with people voting for one extreme or the other i feel this is down to lack of choice of an adequate acceptable replacement for both sides of the community and hopefully this will change going forward.



The reason Limerick is so apt as a comparison is that a lot of the so called sectarian crime taking place are the same types of crimes happening in Limerick (and in many of the cities throughout Ireland & UK) it just is happening in the areas as most other atrocities in the past.



Cyprus I think can learn from Ireland over the last 10 years where economics has played an important part in moving things along



Naas 26

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
10/04/2008 15:58

Hi Naas 26



I couldn't agree more with what you say it wasn't called Stab City for nothing. But like everywhere else on the Emerald Isle it has really cleaned its act up. I know the Garda have targeted the drug gangs in Limerick in particular and according to what I hear its working albeit slowly.



As far as Cyprus goes I'm sure the lessons from Ireland are there to be learned whether they do or not is another matter.



Jim.

sjw1979


Joined: 09/04/2007
Posts: 162

Message Posted:
10/04/2008 18:10

Hi Jim,

thanks for the offer, we are just back and not heading out again until sept time, but dont worry I will find you and get that beer when you are least expecting it ,

SJ

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
10/04/2008 18:14

Sarajane



Look forward to that



Jim.