FREE OFFER - Lag your hot water pipes ! First five applicants only

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 08:10

Last week we lagged my own hot water pipes and the reselt seems to be much hotter and more hot water in the morning from solar heating alone. This is, of course, hard to evaluate as there are many variables and different conditions each day.



We need five volunteeers to let us lag their hot water pipes. That should be enough to enable us to assess the value of this exercise. It will, of course be a bit subjective but we should be able to establish a view on whether people feel it would be worth doing.



After the first five evaluation villas, if it is worthwhile, all further "laggings" will be chargeable.



Please call me on 0533 836 7094/5.



John Webster

Cyprus Solutions

numpty


Joined: 20/05/2009
Posts: 554

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 08:32

hi you can lag ours if you like, we live in Lapta 0533 8407681

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 09:15

Garry Monger is always lagging...

lovinit


Joined: 20/06/2008
Posts: 745

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 09:19

Please contact me I would like my hot water pipes lagged many thanks



0542 8516020

bankadan


Joined: 14/12/2007
Posts: 979

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 09:24

Have sent you an e mail re this John

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 09:27

Please feel free to lag my pipes. I will be happy to give an unbiased opinion about the resultant improvements, if any.

loulou



Joined: 14/05/2008
Posts: 785

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 09:38

yes iwouldnt mind trying it either 05338380361 many thanks

Pogle


Joined: 28/08/2008
Posts: 1536

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 09:46

How about me John!

Tatty


Joined: 24/09/2008
Posts: 186

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 10:53

Yes you can lag ours many thanks

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 11:00

OK folks, that's it we actually have seven to do. Then we will get a good idea how well it works. Watch this space.

bridie


Joined: 18/09/2008
Posts: 308

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 11:04

Why weren't your pipes lagged in the first place? Ours were done 26 years ago, and have had them redone numerous times. The plastic lagging age hardens with the heat rather quickly.

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 11:15

Bridie



I'm afraid that I have no idea why it was not done in the first place as the house was built years before I came to Cyprus. Where I am right now looks down over some 30 rooftops and not one villa has the pipes lagged. I suspect we will be hard pushed to find many villas in Northern Cyprus where the pipes have been lagged.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 11:31

The foam lagging that IS used out here cannot take the UV or the heat. My feeling is that this is an item that will need re-doing on a routine basis. Unlagged pipes waste water and electricity (in winter).

bridie


Joined: 18/09/2008
Posts: 308

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 11:50

It's called cutting costs, or lack of knowledge!

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 11:53

When water was plentiful and electricity was cheap, who needed lagging?

henrik



Joined: 01/10/2009
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 14:15

for isolation try armaflex! (sold at Elektrofrezer in lekoşa) thats the only isolation worth buying and using - if you are doing it.. also change you solar hot water system to a modern, "keymark" certified one.. then its a 100% "go for it" situaton! with the present heaters you will only have, the lets say, "luke warm water" faster in your bathroom.. its a saving - but is it worth the work? NO! Payback??? Do the calculation - so we all can see. I wonder ... NO PAYBACK.

henrik



Joined: 01/10/2009
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 14:46

but for free, I would go for it..

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 15:29

There you go Vaughan. Your pipes done. Does that make you an old lag then?

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 15:33

Thanks John.

I shall test the effects over the next 48 hours and let you know what improvment there is.

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 15:41

A bit overcast today, so probably not the best day to have started this. But, we shall see.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 15:44

It's really about how long it takes for "hot" water to start to flow and how long it stays hot in the pipe once you close the tap.

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 15:53

Well, that must be a part of it but in the end it's to do with how much hot water you get and how hot it is.



I don't think we have to agonise too much over this. We have done four houses today and have three to do tomorrow. After a day or two people will no doubt let us know if it is effective. We can then consider whether or not it has a price that makes it worth paying for.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 16:12

Most of the savings will be in the winter when we heat our water with an electrical immersion element.

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 16:41

is it to late to get lagged for free ?

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 16:43

I am afraid that the answer is in the negative.

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 16:58

msg 25,

So that would be " NO, it's NOT too late to get lagged for free" then...

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 17:18

Donald Rumsfeld said:



"....as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know."



............and in this case you know you know the anwers no..

loulou



Joined: 14/05/2008
Posts: 785

Message Posted:
19/10/2009 21:44

hi john w,thank u service was excellant was done by the time we came back from the shops will let you know in the next few weeks

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
20/10/2009 14:23

First impression is that water runs "hot" sooner and stays hot for longer in the pipe after tap closed. Probably difficult to quantify savings but unlagged hot water pipes are obviously a waste of water and power. Payback time might not be the fastest of all the energy saving measures we could make, but it certainly is good for the conscience.

Pogle


Joined: 28/08/2008
Posts: 1536

Message Posted:
20/10/2009 18:20

Hi John

Thanks for sorting my mums pipes, she said she only had to get up for the loo once in the night so good result!

lovinit


Joined: 20/06/2008
Posts: 745

Message Posted:
20/10/2009 18:29

Dear John,



Thank you for sorting the pipes ( lagging) this am, they were terriffic guys so polite, did a super job!!!!

racoonchic



Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3223

Message Posted:
20/10/2009 18:42

this does work but only in a cold country effectivly so save your money as the only winner is the guy sellin the idea

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 11:21

Of course the colder the country the more necessary is lagging and other measures to conserve heat. I know that where I live in Malatya in winter my solar panels do no more than take the chill off the water - I need a few hours a day of using the immersion heater to be able to take showers for the three of us. I have exposed pipework down the side of my house and have to run-off quite a lot of water before I get any hot water coming through, so I also expect to save water as well as heat (electricity).

Pogle


Joined: 28/08/2008
Posts: 1536

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 11:54

Anyone tried those instant hot water systems here?

loulou



Joined: 14/05/2008
Posts: 785

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 12:56

looks good,water hotter in the morning even when its been cloudy the day before,not shure about the lagging not uv protected

henrik



Joined: 01/10/2009
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 14:01

("Probably difficult to quantify savings but unlagged hot water pipes are obviously a waste of water and power. Payback time might not be the fastest of all the energy saving measures we could make, but it certainly is good for the conscience.")

I could do the REAL "pipe calculation" for all of you - but I wount!, the time I spend on this is not worth a penny. We did this calculations many times. We argued about similar points times ago (see link downstairs) as "others" are not able to present any SAVING numbers.

This is basic maths for all: Assuming your lagging would cost you 500YTL this could give you 1666 kW (@0,30kuruş/kWh) worth hot water. To heat your water uses approx 2kWh per day in winter. assuming 50 cold days = 100kWh hot water used. So, your payback is in 16 years. If you use 4kWh than its 8 years! You cant save more than you need! So, forget about your pipes.

Old thread without saving numbers!: http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/18774.asp Possible cost saving here.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
21/10/2009 14:35

henrik,



Surely, as a German (who are well known for being "green") and the owner of an energy conservation company, shouldn't you be encouraging people to save water and electricity at almost ANY cost? Cost is a very important consideration when resources are "infinite" but here on Cyprus both water and electricity are very much finite resources.

In any case, I understand that the cost of a typical installation is going to be less than 100TL and using your figures above this gives you a payback period of either 3.22 years at 2kW/day, or 1.6 years at 4kW/day.

I also understand that in the energy conservation world that anything with a payback period of less than 3 years (?) is considered worth doing.

henrik



Joined: 01/10/2009
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
22/10/2009 00:03

I do encouraging sustainable solutions. Thats true. But I dont encourage people to save electricty and water at ANY cost. This is something totaly different. Sustainable is important. The installation value should give a customer a certain add-value to his property/ownings and for the future - also a payback is important, so we can consider its green. Also I dont just say, go green, if the installaiton makes no sense in preserving our nature and pocket. Offcourse its nice to have lagged pipes, ofcourse its a green way.. But does it save you anything??Not realy. The numbers above are for the whole hot water heating. So the heatloss through the pipes is only a minimal percentage of this. What kind of lagging is used, whats the k-value? just shout out for lagging is nothing else than selling something as "green" which is hardly realy "green" for your pocket..

BTW: ever thought about how much water and electric costs could be saved throug an efficent solar water heater and lagged pipes?

henrik



Joined: 01/10/2009
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
22/10/2009 00:22

dont get me wrong, everybody needs to earn a living. I can understand this. If the lagging is done with a good k-value material, such as Kflex or Armaflex, covered with a good UV protection, for a total cost of 100YTL, than its a "go for it" situaton..

but to use grey foam, which has nearly non positive effects (bad k-value), without UV cover, then its just a rip off.. It will fly away with the wind after every ray of sunshine desolving it slowly... After one to two years its gone..

And just to let you know, I build up Kibsolar with my brother in TRNC, promoting sustainable renewable energy solutions and selling renewable energy with good payback values. Solar thermals are not in our business portofilo any more, this is done by ORBA - Hello Plumber.

At the moment I am in germany doing my last year in engineering degrees. My bro is on his own and I dont earn a penny. I am more or less a consultant for free.

good luck to you all.

Cheerzz

numpty


Joined: 20/05/2009
Posts: 554

Message Posted:
23/10/2009 07:51

hi my pipes have now been lagged for a couple of days now and i must say that the water is still quite warm in the morning, so i think its a job well done, and the men who came to do this job had been very nice and polite, so thank you and well done

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
23/10/2009 08:19

Numpty



Given that yesterday was the first real sunny day since we did your's would you say that it compared favourably with before.



The key questions are:



Are you getting hot water sooner and thus not wasting so much water while it warms up?



Is the water any hotter when you get it?

Hatty


Joined: 13/07/2008
Posts: 260

Message Posted:
24/10/2009 07:49

Would it not be a good idea to lag the tank as well, or is this already insulated?

numpty


Joined: 20/05/2009
Posts: 554

Message Posted:
24/10/2009 08:33

hi well not sure if the water comes through hotter quicker but it does come through warm enough for a shower,it may change once we have the immersion on or if we have a very hot day, but i am very happy with it

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
24/10/2009 13:45

I am also very pleased with the improvement. I had several metres of surface mounted pipe running down the side of my house and the effect of the new lagging is quite noticable.

I recommend it to the house.