any reason my boiler element and thermostat packs up within months

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 14:46

just wondered if anyone may have an idea as to why it packs up so soon

in April 09 the boiler would not heat the water that was fixed they said it was the thmostat that went

that worked for a week then the problem stated again, this time they said the element went

that was june09 then we had sunshine so the solar panels did the job

last week my wife said theres no hot water just warm and that is after 5 hrs

a plumber same one sent by Unwin has come to probably change the element again

he cant speak a word of english so we will see what he does and how long before it if ever packs up again

just wondered any reason for so soon to pack up. lastly any one can tell me what make i need to from the Uk as a spare part this is the element to the boiler and the thermostate

seems these are the common problems with the boiler,anyone with the same problem as me like to know thanks

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 14:52

Do you have to pay for a visit from the plumber?

If you have to pay, why not get a proper plumber like Cyprus Solutions 0533 836 7094, native English speakers and good tradesmen.

TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 14:56

The main culprit, we found, was limescale. It is pretty serious in the TRNC. We had 3 elements in 5 years. The elements themselves once removed were seriously plastered in limescale that they just overheated and burnt out.

gansa66


Joined: 20/11/2008
Posts: 241

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 14:57

element about 33 tl that comes with the thermostat which is made in uk the tool is about 30 tl to take the element off.your in bussines with 63 tl and tool is yours forever.

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 16:02

Why not go to Zhini in Lapta? Then you can buy cures to the limesclae problem.



He has stock of in line limefighters designed to reduce the limescale and can get you electonic Wrappa's which I find are very good or even Water Genies which are full scale resin water softeners.



He is near the post office his number is 0533 860 2577 find outmore from our http://www.softcleanwater.co.uk web site.



It is well priced as we give export rates having started it for North Cyprus for exactly the reason that Timothy mentioned in message 3.



Tom

IAH Ltd

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 16:40

element about 33 tl that comes with the thermostat which is made in uk the tool is about 30 tl to take the element off.your in bussines with 63 tl and tool is yours forever.





are all stanard sizes

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 16:44

if my problems happen within weeks of being used could it be electrical issues

the element was'nt used since it was fitted in june

the plumber has put a new element again but will chase the lime scale guys next week when there

colly


Joined: 31/07/2008
Posts: 297

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 17:16

Unless you are using water very quickly after it passes through the lime scale reducers this will not sort your problem. The reducers condition the behavior of the particles in the water but this reduces with the passing of time. So if for example you switch the immersion on at 4pm for a shower later that afternoon potentially a good deal of the water in the tank would have been conditioned 24 hours before and so will have lost it's benefit and will still scale up on the element.

Water scale reducers work best just before an appliance that will be heating such as a dishwasher or washing machine.

A resin water softener would sort the problem but you will need supplies of salt to refresh the softener.



Col

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 18:21

Did anyone put an Ohm meter across the heater element contacts to test if it had 'blown', or not? Perhaps, whoever fitted it and the thermostat never bothered to check the setting of the thermostat, which might have been set at its lowest setting. Have you had other electrical appliances fail because of 'spikes' (voltage surges or drops)?

come_on_aylin


Joined: 14/06/2008
Posts: 908

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 18:40

One of the most common causes of this problem is the setting of the thermostat too high. In the UK it's recommended that you only have it at between 56 and 60 c I think... otherwise the water literally boils in the top of the tank. Which is dangerous... We've seen boiling water spurting out of hot water tanks here..



The fitters often forget to set it to a sensible level after they've finished testing it works. "No problem" is all they say if you ask... Yeah, right no problem for them because they're off like a whippet...



If you overheat the water not only do you have to add cold to make it usable and safe but it costs you shed-loads of money to run it and then repair/replace...



Voltages can also cause problems I understand so it might be worth investing in a regulator... ask Elko.

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 19:10

Colly Msg 8,



Resin softeners such as the Water Genie "remove" much of the lime scale but as well as using salt and electricity you do have an added problem how to get rid of the saline (salt) water after each regenerartion which cleans it & makes it work (this also wastes water). There are also some restrictions on who can drink the water and to it's taste unlike many other products.



The water scale reducers each work in a different manner i.e. the electrionic Wrappa is not invasive (does not have to be cut into the pipe) + it works in both directions. I have known of similar units tested and sold in the south even before 1995 cost four+ times what you pay now. They are best on running water & well suited to water that is not still for over 20 hours.



You are right to say the best instalation point is before the heating of the water for all but a regenirative softner.



Electrolytic and magnetic conditioners are best close to point of use. I prefer electronic though.

kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 19:33

message 10 come on aylin is spot on .



i changed one last year after it had never been used ,brought it back to the uk and bought them for £20 with thermostat .



took it to my friend who is a commercial plumber to be told it wasnt the emmersion elament but was the thermobar which are only a couple of pound,and take 2 minutes to fit .



kav

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 19:50

As many above pointed out the main culprit is the setting of the thermostat too high. Many plumbers set it to 85 degrees Celcius when in fact it should not be above 65. The effect of lime is of secondary importance in my view. The voltage may be a problem if you are living near a substation and your voltage can go up to 260 volts. I doubt that this is the case. However when buying the element make sure it is made for 230 volts or even better for 240 volts. Do not buy an element for 220 volts. Make sure you see the writing with your own eyes and do not trust your plumber.

The elements also come in two qualities. One is almost double the price of the other but lasts much longer. It has been years since I changed mine, so I cannot remember the price. At one time it used to go at every three months. I adjusted the thermostat to 65 degrees Celcius and that was it.

ismet

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 19:58

loads of infor tell me water softener clears lime scale build up, i dont have a pool so no water softener

know someone that does that if thats what i need

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 20:11

there are 11 villas including mine no one else has this problem

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 20:16

Hi Basheer - you don't need a pool to benefit from a water softener.



Hi Ismet - you are right about the 65 or maybe preferably below - I have come across a number of people scalded (and some badly burnt) in my time because plumbers have left water temperatures too high and then blamed faulty equipment (shower valves etc.)

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 20:21

Bin the whole thing! Fit a gas water heater and stop wasting the electric - water heater gives you hot on demand and is far cheaper to run (over a 12 month period) than the electric heater. Had mine nearly two years now and have never switched the electric on once since I got it.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 22:19

Thinking about it, how do we know that the thermostat or element was sealed thoroughly?



Leakage could cause either, or both to short out - especially with these 'dump it and run' merchants!

Tootie


Joined: 28/08/2008
Posts: 2037

Message Posted:
30/10/2009 22:30

Remember to make sure its no lower than at least 65 degrees because of Legionnaires Disease.



70 to 80 °C (158 to 176 °F): Disinfection range

At 66 °C (151 °F): Legionellae die within 2 minutes

At 60 °C (140 °F): Legionellae die within 32 minutes

At 55 °C (131 °F): Legionellae die within 5 to 6 hours

Above 50 °C (122 °F): They can survive but do not multiply

35 to 46 °C (95 to 115 °F): Ideal growth range

20 to 50 °C (68 to 122 °F): Legionellae growth range

Below 20 °C (68 °F): Legionellae can survive but are dorman

come_on_aylin


Joined: 14/06/2008
Posts: 908

Message Posted:
31/10/2009 10:06

If the thermostat is in the bottom of a tank and set to 65c the temperature of water in the top will be much higher.



Many health organisations recommend you clean the shower heads regularly because the temperature there will never reach the disinfection temp in normal use..( we all like a hot shower but not that hot!) some water is retained there in normal use, so the bacilli can multiply just above your head... worth thinking about.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
31/10/2009 10:10

Come on Aylin,

I have one thousand and other things on my head to bother with. Who is this Bacili, is she a blonde?

ismet

JamesB


Joined: 07/02/2007
Posts: 450

Message Posted:
31/10/2009 10:28

Like Ismet says Pick up a heavy duty element in the uk or get someone to bring one out.

bit awkward but worth it.

Havent seen one in Trnc.



Jb

colly


Joined: 31/07/2008
Posts: 297

Message Posted:
31/10/2009 12:26

message 10.



agree that you should not have the temp too high but the water spurting out of tank will be due to the thermostat failing and element staying on rather than incorrect setting. The thermostats are not very good from my experience, essential to have some sort of timer on just in case left on. This is not only to save energy but the potential boiling over which has been know to come through the roof!



Message 11 flight holiday.

Agree but think the curve starts to accellerate downwards after 12 hours although the jury is still out on this one.



Col

rigsby


Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 912

Message Posted:
31/10/2009 12:42

I used to suffer from immersion heater problems.I bought the all singing all dancing special immersion heaters from u/k.And they lasted about as long as the cheap ones.The thermostat gave up of the time,try buying a decent stat from the yapi markets,no chance.

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
31/10/2009 13:30

For replacement hot water tanks, elements, thermostats and timers call us on 0533 836 7094.



John Webster

Cyprus Solutions

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
31/10/2009 13:44

a little late...msg 1

low quality of the element and or thermostate is the main reason, followed by limescale due to settings of above 60 degrees. elements are running too long as it is installed at the bottom and/or the storage tank is insufficient insulated. then comes leakage (and short cuts) due to galvanic korrrosion or condensation. Bad plumbers and High Voltage comes last! ( due to noninsulated pipes plumbers very often need to set temps to nearly max as customer complaints that water at the tap is not hot enough)

msg 18, A good element for „open water systems“ may cost a fortune. your element is gone and the plumber has no choice then to install the same rubbish, you want it quick done, isnt it?, see msg 22.

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
31/10/2009 13:45

Msg 17 advice is brilliant: bin or by pass (summer-winter use) the whole thing!, but dont buy (again) the cheapest (gas heater). Choices at „Hello Plumber“ 0533 8467420

msg 20 in general is right, due to (long) noninsulated pipes you dont get the 65+ temps at the tap to kill the blonde but „cleaning shower heads“ is insufficient.

msg 19 gives hints and you can see that the blondes will, due to our nice summers, happily multiply in our cold water pipes. You have to desinficate your whole system every 3 month or permanentely treatment is required. But also this you will not get for 10 STG incl Vat.

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
31/10/2009 13:51

Kibsolar





"( due to noninsulated pipes plumbers very often need to set temps to nearly max as customer complaints that water at the tap is not hot enough)"



Re: lagging pipes see:-



http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/24423.asp

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
31/10/2009 14:48

yes, yes. I did read it.

Lagging has to be done before, afterwords its only „a pain“, but maybe sometimes worth it.

A normal 2 storey home has a central feed in with 5-10 meters outside (air) pipes and 20-30 meters of hot water pipes laid in dense concrete or sand. Thats (approx) two squaremeters of heatexchanger. You are lost.

My brother is right (effort vs „only 25% of all pipes are lagged“) , Vaughan is right, you are right.

We are consulter, planner, installers of high efficient thermal and electric solar systems and energy efficient buildings. We would optimise water flows and so on at the same time...incl a circulation pipe. We do not lag pipes.

And the plumber comes to solve the problem immediately......