Geoff and Mary Day - court case

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 07:41

Is it simpler to have one thread dedicated to Geoff and Mary? Can then update the thread rather than put title of next appearance etc.



Next appearance is Monday 14th June at 10am, so you may as well stay overnight after the auction!!



I have been talking to a Cypriot friend who went into court last week and I think the word devastated would not be too strong. They just could not believe the stuff that was been said by the witness. (please substitute your own words for what they really think, I have to be careful). The case is built around such trivia and possibly fabricated evidence. How the prosecution lawyer has the nerve to stand there day after day.........



I have forgotten when we first went along, must be 6 months ago. It is so sad to state that this case is just another nail in the coffin of the whole TRNC system. It is a blatent case of discrimination, sorry I cannot tone that one down. Any other court in the world would have thrown this out 3 years ago.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
12/06/2010 07:44

Somebody in authority must step in and stop this nonesense, the case is now an albatros around the neck of the TRNC judiciary.



I am sorry to ask you all again but please turn out on monday, like the auctions we may eventually, hopefully, make somebody listen. We are not the ones causing the press of the world to be looking in to TRNC.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 20:07

Please, if you have nothing to do come along Monday.



I think there are 8 already going into the court room tomorrow. If you want to go in it is respectful dress - trousers for men, covered shoulders fo ladies.



Mary has to sit outside so if anyoe wants to sit with her she does appreciate abit of company.

mint1955



Joined: 30/05/2007
Posts: 988

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 20:13

As you have started a new thread here would it be possible to precis the issues and problems so far then you may get more support. As there are few threads already it may make it easier for people unsure of the severity of the problem and thus gain more supporters.

gotavilla


Joined: 22/04/2009
Posts: 175

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 20:19

Forgive me, but what is this case all about?

nareik


Joined: 26/01/2009
Posts: 113

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 20:28

David,

I admire your tenacity and focus on keeping this issue in the public domain.

I just hope your efforts will be rewarded tomorrow, in particular for Geoff and Mary.

Well done,

Nareik.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 20:33

gotavilla,



It's a well publicised case that has been dragging on for several years and this poor couple have been to court on numerous occasions only for the other party not to turn up. Using the Google bar at the top just key in their names and also visit the HBPG site where you will find several newspaper articles.



It demonstrates the unfairness of the judiciary.

gotavilla


Joined: 22/04/2009
Posts: 175

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 22:49

Thanks Bradus - I remember it now. Thought it had all been resolved.



Mint 1955 - this link gives details of the case



http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/06/06/geoff-and-may-day-girne-court-on-9th-june-2010-for-alleged-theft-from-builder/

littleme


Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
13/06/2010 23:50

Geoff and I would like to thank everyone for all the support that has been given so far & hope it continues, It has been of great help & comfort to us & helps to keep what little is left of not only our sanity but also our lives.

Mary & Geoff x

rigsby


Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 912

Message Posted:
14/06/2010 00:33

The very best of luck to you both. It seems a lifetime ago i asked how this case was going.

gotavilla


Joined: 22/04/2009
Posts: 175

Message Posted:
14/06/2010 19:52

What happened today? Any conclusion?

skybluesam


Joined: 24/12/2008
Posts: 447

Message Posted:
14/06/2010 20:00

Back in court on Thursday 10.30am

littleme


Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
14/06/2010 20:19

Well back yet again on Thursday 17th 10:30. Will it ever end...........

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
14/06/2010 20:42

The British High Commissioner for Cyprus is no longer Peter Millett, it's John Kidd since 7th May. I wonder what his attitude towards the north is?

catalkoykid


Joined: 15/02/2009
Posts: 1190

Message Posted:
14/06/2010 20:54

mess 13 wrong forum Nigel is on the other 1 but i agree with you totally

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
14/06/2010 21:09

It would be laughable if it wasn't so heart rendering for the couple. Imagine the heartache and stress this has caused. There would be an outcry if this happened in most civilised countries because of the complete waste of tax payers money.



Having followed the case one can only conclude its a complete farce.Yet this is suppose to be a criminal case. I can't help think that this would make a brilliant fly on the wall documentary because of its absolute stupidity and unbelievable story line.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
14/06/2010 21:21

Just to fill in detail.



Our interpreter played ablinder today. Our take on proceedings, after hanging around for hour and half outside, judge said she had heard enough from prosecution and unless they had anything sensible to add they have had there turn.



Geoff's solicitor was asked to proceed but obviously a bit short notice so adjourned until thursday when Geoff will have his turn.



So please, on Geoff's behalf can we have a good turn out, Thursday 17th June 10.30.



Even if it is just to sit outside with Mary it would be a great help. Hopefully they are now on the last leg of this travesty.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
14/06/2010 21:44

Pauline Read is starting a series of articles about Geoff and Mary Day's court case

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/06/14/geoff-and-mary-day-in-court-again-1030am-thursday-17th-june-2010/

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
15/06/2010 08:47

malsancak/Msg 18:



Due to the lengthy timescale of this 'staged farce', which is, obvious to all [except, seemingly, the judiciary], totally disproportionate to such trumped up charges, even a precis covering the matter from the start of Geoff & Mary's nightmare to the present ridiculous impasse, should be sufficient, so that other [innocent] expats can be made aware of what they can so easily and unknowingly be exposed to.

Oscar


Joined: 16/12/2007
Posts: 4

Message Posted:
15/06/2010 16:46

After all this time with no resolution, I get the feeling that there is more to this case than meets the eye. Maybe, just maybe, Geoff and Mary have indeed done something that constitutes a crime. I know that the Justice system works slowly in the TRNC, but I also know that matters that take time to be heard are usually because there is enough evidence to prove wrong doing. Don't pre-judge something that could well turn out to be a pack of lies by the accused couple. Thursday could be very interesting - but there again the chances are that it will go on for a few more months yet, and more sympathy will no doubt be sought by this "innocent until proven guilty" couple.

dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
15/06/2010 17:36

Oscar, what are you? a judge? you sound very much like the old 'Law of Lydford' .... Hang them in the morn, try them in the afternoon!.... Judge Jeffries comes to mind .....

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
15/06/2010 17:38

Oscar,



Having sat in the court several times as have a dozen others on a regular basis the evidence presented, a 5 year old would disect and make a decision.



We have not been posting on this topic for several months, sitting in and out of court without learning an awful lot.



Maybe if you were more honest yourself then maybe we would believe your post was made with honest intent.



Obviously you do not know an awful lot, in TRNC you are guilty until you prove your innocence.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
15/06/2010 17:38

Oscar/Msg 20:



It's your perogative to retain your suspicion; but as another [innocent] victim of this deeply flawed legal system, there appears to be only one winner - the advocates, whose advice [in our case] was worthless, but certainly served to 'line their pockets' out of all proportion to their completely [by any civilised country's standards] unsatisfactory and unprofessional 'service'.



But, when they have openly admitted in the Press to 'having no duty of care'; who, in their right mind, can have any faith in a system that upholds and practices what is regarded by 'disaffected' expatriates as 'banana republic' justice?



But, Oscar, when you have experienced this, first-hand, you may not be so hasty in making excuses for it, or casting aspersions on those unfortunates who have unwittingly been caught up in it.

smoggyjim


Joined: 21/07/2007
Posts: 214

Message Posted:
15/06/2010 17:54

Oscar who are you Jeremy Clarkson I don't think, maybe you have some interest in this case.

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
15/06/2010 17:56

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/596.asp

post 63 from Hippo is it correct

kaiserphil


Joined: 14/12/2008
Posts: 1096

Message Posted:
15/06/2010 18:59

I think this must be a 'sleeper' personality of a 'gentleman' well known on this and other boards.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 10:27

We are straying from the topic of this thread - TOMORROW [Thurs.June 17th] Geoff & Mary will be in court again - please be there to support them.



Remember - it could so easily be, or have been, you!



Have you ever thought of that?

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 13:10

What exactly is it you are asking people to support? I am a touch confused here. I have been in an English court where even the police witness stated that I was totaly inocent of any crime and yet I was made out to be guilty by the prosecution and their witnesses, so there appears to be no diffence in that system and this - given that this system is based on the British system this is not a surprise.

So are you asking us all to turn up and support a complaint about the system - or - are you asking us all to turn up and support those who have been taken to court by this system.

I can understand (a little) if it is the former but if it is the latter then please explain why you would ask us all to assume that the charged are inocent and therefore need our support.

I am not argueing here and not trying to stop any support but I would need to know all the facts and be sure in my own mind of guilt or inocence before I could support the second instance. Sorry just being honest with y

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 13:39

if you read the details of the Days' case, it can only be a complaint against what appears (my opinion) to be an abuse of power. The precedent that could be set if the Days are found guilty, and not awarded costs, is that if you have within the boundaries of your property one item of a builder's property that you have not got proof that you have paid for then you can be sued for theft and would have to pay a fortune to prove that you're innocent! Unbelievable!!! I'm amazed they don't use a ducking stool.

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 13:54

malsancak, understood! But is this not the same system employed within the UK? If you are accused of being a receiver of stolen property tben unless you can prove - without doubt - that you have either owned it from new or purchased it new from an outlet that is a bonifide supplier of the product, you are (in the words of the solicitor) well stuffed! How many times have you read about people who purchase second hand cars only to find they were stolen?

From personal knowledge I have seen a vehicle taken away by the police because the previous owner had stolen it and then sold it on. That actually makes the new owner a receiver of stolen property, for which they can be taken to court - and they could never win their case -and found guility with subsequent fine/imprisonment. Totaly unjust I know but that is the law. Is this not the same here?



I can not fall on either side but I can say that the laws in general need bringing into this century. Good luck to all.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 14:09

It is support of a person being tried in a foreign land, under laws that nobody understands and using a language we are unfortuantley guilty of not understanding.



I think that over the last 9 months I have been invilved there is enough content on this forum, NCFP and other forums to hazard a guess at what is going on.



After sitting in the court on a number of occasions and watching prosecution witnesses one also gains a strong understanding of what is being presented. Make of that what you wish.



Also, do not forget when this case finishes it is straight into the civil case where the builder is demanding his money for completing the Day's house. He wants final stage payments plus compensation. DOH, the house is not finished.



Obviously we believe in the innocence of Geoff but only the court can decide legally the case.



A general point, this country is bankrupt yet is wasting tens of thousands of pounds on a case that would go in front of a magestrate anywhere else!!!!!!!!

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 19:26

What was today's outcome?

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 19:55

bradus, no idea what was happening today!!!!!!



Think all the excitment is getting to you, tomorrow , thurday is next appearance.



Personally cannot see a resolution for at least another 3 sessions. Unless judge goes against protocol



David

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 20:52

Thought it was Thursday today!!!!!!!!!



There is no hope for me.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 20:55

waddo, I lived in the south of England where Roman law no longer applies. There, if I have a tin of paint in my shed which I no longer have the receipt for then someone cannot accuse me of stealing it and have me put in prison. Now, in the case of a car, each one is registered and if you aren't the registered owner then yes, you are in possession of property you don't own. The Days' case is about things like tins of paint.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 21:04

....................and the amount of times they have attended court whilst the prosecutors just don't show.

littleme


Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 09:48

Well what will today bring I wonder!!!!!!!!!!!!

rigsby


Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 912

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 12:03

littleme,JUSTICE maybe,Good Luck

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 12:19

Malcansak, you have a good point. Has anyone asked the plaintive if he has a receipt for the said items?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 13:29

I have a feeling the plaintiff has receipts for goods similar to the ones he's accusing the Days of "stealing." Perhaps the argument is that he's got a receipt for similar goods but the Days haven't so there rests his case. We should all be making sure we get a Fatura (receipt) for everything from now on.

littleme


Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 15:03

We do have receipts but they will not accept them without the correct postoffice stamp & an official stamp on top of that, they are of no use to anyone.

littleme


Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 15:04

malsancak need you to email me or phone me .

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 15:07

The prosecutions last witness based argument on above quotes.



We have fatura, does not match what happened but that is the truth your honour!!!



OK to reallity. This morning we were delayed yet again by a load of remand cases, really is a pain to have to sit through them.



We had the now usual contingent in court, 2 rows all looking for a result. The oficials now know who we all are, especially as no new comers.



Today, Peyman decided not to call any witness for the defence instead read a deposition requesting the court to throw out the case for lack of evidence.



She used a lot of phrases direct from English Law regarding intent and actual taking from property said items. Sounded a good defence and Geoff who had his interpreter appeared quite happy at the end of proceedings.



As always cut short and to resume on 30th june at 10.00.



Will this ever end??

littleme


Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 15:19

Back on 30th June not quite sure what happend today some very good points of law made, will let you all know as soon as I have a copy. Many thanks to all those who came today the court was full.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 21:38

I'm really sorry I couldn't be there today, but I had visitors from UK + business to discuss that I simply couldn't ignore, or miss.



Has Peyman asked the prosecuting attorney: 'What is the exact value of all items claimed by the plaintiff to have been 'stolen'?'



The true answer has got to be farcical, surely?



Peyman should then ask the judge if such [alleged] actions by the defendent, who wasn't even in the country, warranted arrest at Ercan and lengthy incarceration in the vilest conditions. She should stress that the 'accused person(s)' UK Police report that accompanied their PTP application proved them to be 'squeaky clean' - so, why should a man, after six decades, suddenly resort to petty crime?



The TRNC legal system has, in this case, 'in one fell swoop', proved that a person is guilty until proved innocent - which is in stark contrast to the strict adherence to 'British Law' that all advocates assure their clients the TRNC legal system purports to uphold.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 23:11

From msg. 43 my understanding is this:

Peyman has pleaded "No prima facie case" which means "there is no case to answer". This is the usual procedure when the prosecution has not put up a good case. Now it is up to the judge to decide, either a) the case will be thrown out or b) the defence will be called upon to put forward their defence. Whatever the result, in criminal cases neither side has to pay any costs.

ismet

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 23:16

Ismet, but what of the cost in legal fees for an innocent party? Not a legal system for the poor is it? You can be innocent and yet your accuser can force you to pay to prove it.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 06:34

From talking to G&M they have already forked out over £10k in solicitor fees.



There may not be any court costs to pay but!!!!!

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 07:12

littleme/Msg 44:



Please email me a s a p, as I have some information for you.



I gave you my card with contact details right after the June 14th court hearing.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 13:33

Just been talking to Mary Day.



She has been given the full transcript of Peyman's deposition yesterday. The advice from Peyman is to make the contents known to all because the points of law used are quite damning.



Other legal people have read the transcript and are concerned that if the case is found against Geoff Day, and this is stated in the transcript, there may be dire consequences for anyone who has picked up a piece of wood for the fire, used up that last bit of paint for touch up etc. In addition the opinions of TRNC will dive even further into the mire.



Mary is now trying to contact HBPG to have document translated and placed on their site. In addition get as much as possible into the press next week.



Please bear with it, this may be interesting for many.



Also we need more people to be at the court on 30th June to give support. Unfortunatley 6 out 12 there last 2 weeks will be in England. So please make a note in diary 10am start.

littleme


Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 18:23

Tenakoutou

If you email bootfaircyprus@hotmail.com put for attn of mary they will ring me with your email add or forward it to me.

littleme

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 18:35

OMG, I was digging my garden yesterday and I found a nail that I haven't got a receipt for and it looks like the ones my builder used 6 years ago! Not a laughing matter but it potentially makes the legal system here look a bigger ass than seems possible. Even if the case is thrown out, if the Days' costs are not covered then the story will spread round the world like a house on fire! As has already been said, who would buy a house here if at some time an overlooked pot of paint could cost you £10,000 in legal fees.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 19:05

£10,000 was before this week, so it continues to rise.



I heard a lot of the words used by Peyman on Thursday, to get a full transcript in English will be great. A whip around will be needed for translation fees so get the moths out of the wallets.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 20:06

message52

'but it potentially makes the legal system here look a bigger ass than seems possible'



Good!



It would make a good Gilbert and Sullivan opera. like their 'Trial By Jury spoof'



Chorus.altogether now,



"I found a little tin of paint

The builder said ,yours it aint.



He said, £13k or I'll give you grief.

See you in court with your brief.



Now I'm in Australia doing time.

I didnt have £100k for the fine.'



Actually it would be more of a tragedy than a spoof.

littleme


Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 21:41

Keep my old suit from the good old uk

Thought that I may need it one day



Going to court and looking posh

Not vey good cos they want lots of dosh



Put on an old shirt as tatty as can be

They will think I am poor & not want money from me

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 23:07

you know it alkl beggers belief, how in any part of the world can this happen, my kids did not beleive me when i related our tales of woe, thought we were stupid but then i guess we are. This just is the icing on the cake for stupidy. My heart and my prayers are for mary anf geoff so this saga can end xxx

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 23:17

Has the British High Commission been involved in this case? I thought their role was to support Brits wherever in the world they face problems?

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
19/06/2010 02:03

I think you will find the British High Commission will not give the same attention to British subjects in the North as they do for those in the South due to the perceived illegality of what is called a regime. I feel for this couple. Though I do not know all the details I thought to prove theft the physical act and the criminal intent must be proven and the intent must be to permanently deprive the owner of the goods at the time or intent formed later. Also a defence if there was believe that the owner would have given the goods if asked. If the paint is in tins on a balcony and not used by now on a fence or wall etc or otherwise disposed of for gain it is hard to imagine how anyone can deduce that there was intent to deprive the owner permanently. Don't mean to be flippant but in a civil action it might be possible to counter claim for storage that is how bizzare this all seems to be. This family here hopes this nightmare will soon end favourably for Mary and Geoff.

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
19/06/2010 02:05

I think you will find the British High Commission will not give the same attention to British subjects in the North as they do for those in the South due to the perceived illegality of what is called a regime. I feel for this couple. Though I do not know all the details I thought to prove theft the physical act and the criminal intent must be proven and the intent must be to permanently deprive the owner of the goods at the time or intent formed later. Also a defence if there was believe that the owner would have given the goods if asked. If the paint is in tins on a balcony and not used by now on a fence or wall etc or otherwise disposed of for gain it is hard to imagine how anyone can deduce that there was intent to deprive the owner permanently. Don't mean to be flippant but in a civil action it might be possible to counter claim for storage that is how bizzare this all seems to be. This family here hopes this nightmare will soon end favourably for Mary and Geoff.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
19/06/2010 06:15

deputydawg,



The phrases you use "must be proven" and "permanantly deprive" are two used by Peyman in her deposition.



At this stage Geoff and Mary can do nothing other than get this translated and published asap, whish is already underway. Afraid I cannot say more, except there are a number of legal eagles quite concerned as to the result and the damage it WILL do to TRNC.



As for High Commission, there involvment can only be to offer emergency assistance. I can only try to remember the quote we were given in a meeting several weeks ago about property issues - they cannot intervene in the legal process of any other country. To be fair they treat British people in RoC exactly the same as here ie there are tens of thousands there with property issues and in the same mess as TRNC and no help.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
19/06/2010 07:34

littleme - please tell Cetin Peler who I am - I can't understand the mistrust!



I have sent him information to relay on to you.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
19/06/2010 08:11

tenakoutou.



I am surprised, would you trust someone who just puts a card in your hand and says contact me???? You have no indication on personal details what your real name and location etc are and your photo may as well be an avatar.



After 4 years of hassle I do not trust people either until I know exactly who they are.



Please take my comment in the way it is intended, it is not a negative, people in problems must be careful who they talk to.



David

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
19/06/2010 12:22

I can't put a face to your name, David - but we must have met at numerous HBPG meetings - Marion Stokes knows me very well, I can assure you.



I have met Geoff & Mary on several occasions and I was there to support them at the June 14th hearing - if you were there, you would have seen me. It was on our emergence from the courtroom that I gave Mary my card - of course, I had been talking to them both just prior to the hearing.



Do you really think that I would so prolifically and vociferously post my opinions concerning a whole range of sensitive topics on this forum, possibly putting my 'visitor' status at risk, unless I was genuine?

ttoli


Joined: 24/03/2007
Posts: 1172

Message Posted:
19/06/2010 12:58

Elko Msg 46

Peyman has pleaded "No prima facie case" which means "there is no case to answer". This is the usual procedure when the prosecution has not put up a good case. Now it is up to the judge to decide, either a) the case will be thrown out or b) the defence will be called upon to put forward their defence.



Having been at the court myself and heard Peymans summary for a No prima Facie case(ie that there is absolutely NO evidence against Geoff (No charges have been made against Mary), and it is declined,

does this not then open the door for any builder to step forward and claim that buyers have stolen bricks/materials from them before they've paid for the property in full???

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
19/06/2010 13:16

msg. 64

Ttoli,

I cannot comment on this particular case but in general there are many criminal cases heard in the courts all over the world and some result in conviction and a substantial amount in acquittal. If the prosecution did not manage to put up a reasonable case, then it is up to the defence to claim "no prima facie case". However any acquittal is not an absolute proof of innocense, it simply means that guilt was not proved "beyond reasonable doubt".

The police and ultimately the prosecution has to weigh all the evidence available and not the "hearsay gossip" and decide how to handle the case. They may be accused of an error of judgement but any deliberate and fraudulent complaint is something else and must be dealt with severely. Occasionallty the police bring charges against people who lodge fraudulent complaints.

ismet

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
19/06/2010 13:29

It would make a great documentary similar to Holiday Home Nightmare or Banged Up Abroad.



Would certainly stop criminals from going to NC. 'If they do that to you over picking up an old tin of paint,what must they be like if you are caught with a Kg of Coke'



Bit worried myself, I have an old screwdriver left by a tradesman. Its a fair cop.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
19/06/2010 13:46

Logically, then, surely the onus now must be on any and every tradesman's 'client' to order him/them to remove from the site every last item of construction material and machinery at the end of each and every day's work, or at any time the said tradesman/men leave the site unattended, warning him/them that the police will be notified in the case of non compliance by the builder/contractor/ decorator/plumber/electrician, etc,; etc,?



If there is a 'language difficulty' - a printed out sheet of paper [stipulating the above] should be handed directly to any, or all, tradespeople concerned.



Alternatively, an inventory for ALL construction items should be furnished by the tradesperson and mutually signed by the contractual parties.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
19/06/2010 13:49

Cont'd:



This 'scenario' should be aired in court, together with the ramifications involved, and a specific request made directly to the judge for an answer as to the viability and practicality of such [obviously] necessary action due to the 'loophole' in the existing law that has unquestionably allowed Geoff & Mary, as totally innocent victims of blatant blackmail, to be in their current predicament.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
19/06/2010 14:23

There used to be a standard response to book clubs which sent you unwanted books after you cancelled and then expected you to pay to return them. It said to the effect that if a prepaid label wasn't sent within 7 days then you would charge them £1 a day to store the book which would eventually be sold in order to recover the costs if it was not later claimed. Perhaps we should be charging storage costs to all these builders who leave their rubbish after they have "finished" the job.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
19/06/2010 14:32

msg 63,



I am at pia bella most tuesdays and have been at the court on and off for several months. Next time ask and I am sure someone will point me out, like you I do not hide what I think.



Unfortuanatley will miss the next ourt hearing when prosecution will have there say. Hope someone will post the events so I can read them in England.

littleme


Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
30/06/2010 08:50

Girne court 10:00 am today the story continues. All supporters welcome

we are now on about episode 46 or more for those of you who have not caught up on this soap yet. could it all end today? will geoff survive? will geoff get committed to a mental institute? what will Mary do? Will there be a follow up next season? Watch this space!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

puppylover



Joined: 05/05/2008
Posts: 1427

Message Posted:
30/06/2010 08:59

Good to see that with all this going on you still have a sense of humour Mary!



See you there.



Keep smiling.



Judy

dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
30/06/2010 11:52

Any new yet please?

ttoli


Joined: 24/03/2007
Posts: 1172

Message Posted:
30/06/2010 13:30

Judgement will be on July 15th a great turnout of supporters.

dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
30/06/2010 13:35

So pleased that people were good enough to go along for support, great news....

puppylover



Joined: 05/05/2008
Posts: 1427

Message Posted:
30/06/2010 14:46

Really admire Geoff and Mary for the way they are dealing with this whole situation.

Still puting on a brave face and smiling.



Nice to meet other 44 members who attended today.

Here's hoping there will be an even bigger turn out on July 15th when the judge will reach her verdict on whether there is a case to answer.

littleme


Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
30/06/2010 15:37

Many thanks to those who came to court today it really does help.

As puppylover has said we go back on July 15th 10.00 am for the judge to say if she wants to hear the defence or not.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
30/06/2010 15:45

Just to correct msg 74, there will not necessarily be a "judgement" on 15th July. The judge will simply decide if the defence has to present a case or not.



I have a fear that she will force the defence to present the case and then say to back back after the court holidays in September.



I have stated elsewhere, the judge is on a hiding to nothing. If she finds Geoff innocent she will be crucified by the building industry and part of the judiciary and probably the government for allowing an Englishmen to be let off.



If Geoff is found guilty the press here and in UK will have a field day and the TRNC will be totally destroyed as a banana republic with a judiciary the supports criminal builders et al. Then the tourists will stop coming following on from the KTHY debacle and the government will all run around like headless chickens asking what is the problem,

nareik


Joined: 26/01/2009
Posts: 113

Message Posted:
30/06/2010 22:01

David,

the reputation of the TRNC building industry is zero anyway, so she should not be worried about upsetting them.

I think the judiciary would welcome a "no case to answer" decision - this would get the expat brigade off all their collective backs.

The Government should also welcome a "no case" decision: it would pacify 6000 odd expats at the expense of 1 dubious TC. A no brainer.

I just hope she has "the balls" to do the right thing.

Nareik.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
30/06/2010 22:40

Just two points:

1. I do not know the judge in question but I can say for certain that all our judges can be trusted to make their judgements in accordance with their consciences. I am sure they cannot be influenced by external forces and the builders have no significance at all. The judges are humans and sometimes they may make mistakes but you can trust that they are not biased. Not influenced by the builders nor by the numbers of expats attending the hearing and this is how it should be. Of course I support those attending to give psycological support to those in need and it does mean a lot.



2. The criminal cases are not affected by the summer recess, only civil cases are affected.

ismet

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
30/06/2010 22:47

What about the judge simply deciding 'on the evidence'? A novel factor for the TRNC I know.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
30/06/2010 23:02

msg. 81,

Hector, what do you mean? In order to decide 1"on the evidence", the judge must have all the evidence i.e. the evidence submitted by the prosecution plus the evidence to be submitted by the defence. I hope the judge findsd "no casxe to answer", otherwise it will be the turn of the defence to put in evidence. Its something they do every day and I see nothing novel about it.

ismet

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
30/06/2010 23:06

What do the TRNC judiciary exactly hope to achieve by prolonging this farce - I'm sure this must be the question on everyone's lips?

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
01/07/2010 00:01

msg. 83,

Do you know of any judiciary in the world that is fast? I don't.

ismet

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
01/07/2010 08:22

Msg 84:



40 + court hearings for the alleged 'theft' of a few worthless scraps of abandoned building materials [read rubbish] - you must be joking, Elko!



Just off topic for a second: Thank you, Elko - your 'Elko' SVC-500VA gizmo, which I bought at 'Tektan', DEFINITELY saved our expensive plasma TV the other night by preventing what would otherwise have been calamitous and terminal damage from a massive voltage surge. It's 'buzz', when a surge frequently occurs, is VERY reassuring!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
01/07/2010 08:50

msg. 85,

1. Thanks for the recommendation about Elko SVC (Servo Voltage Controller) which is a must for any expensive equipment but I would also add that the Elko Voltage Protector which retails at 100 TL is also a must to protect the whole house. I will not sell anything that I do not believe in. Sorry about the plug



2. About the court case. I do not condone the 40+ court hearings or rather postponements. This is not the fault of the system but rather the fault of the judge, the prosecutor and the advocate for defence all combined. The prosecutor plays the delaying game in the hope that the accused will give in with the knowledge that the cost of the defence will far outweigh the cost of the penalty. It works most of the time and makes me very angry. One such example: a man gives his motorcycle to a mechanic for repairs. The mechanic uses it at the weekend for private purposes and the police bring charges to both of them. The mechanic for using the motorcycle without a proper licence and the owner for allowing it. After several postponements the owner too gives in because his employer was threatening to suck him for too many leaves to attend the court. I was really sorry for the chap.

ismet

Garythegeezer


Joined: 05/02/2007
Posts: 102

Message Posted:
01/07/2010 12:07

Elko2:



"After several postponements the owner too gives in because his employer was threatening to suck him for too many leaves to attend the court. I was really sorry for the chap"



Best typo I have seen for a long time!



Regards

Gary

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
01/07/2010 14:05

Has this case had the same judge right from the start or has there been more than one involved? Has the defence attempted to "Settle out of court" or has the defence solicitor simply charged 500TL per appearance and kept taking the money? Put the people concerned to one side and look at the case itself - could it have been finished months ago or is it down to face saving on either side that it has gone on for so long? Lots of different views appear once you can get over the emotional side of things and if we all had a "Hindsight" card to play I wonder how we would view the current positions we are all in.



I do not envy the judge at this time but feel that the law must be obeyed regardless of the consequences to the judge, the accussed or the accusor - not easy and probably why I never wanted to be a judge!!!



Good luck to all involved.