‘Greek Cypriots not bringing feasible proposals to negotiation table’

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/08/2010 22:42

Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (KKTC) President Derviş Eroğlu says expectations have arisen of an agreement over the status of the divided island by year’s end and that his government is working on the negotiations track with that goal in mind despite complaints about Greek demands.



In an exclusive interview with Today’s Zaman, President Eroğlu explained: “We are making our recommendations with sensitivity to a livable agreement. What a shame it is that the Greek administration is coming with recommendations that will be rejected by the Turkish side. If you address the immigrant argument dismissing the 35 years that have passed, if you uproot people from where they live, then you’re extending an invitation for a social explosion.”

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/08/2010 22:43

Eroğlu said that because they want negotiations to pick up where they left off, they agreed to start off with property issues so as to avoid rejecting Greek Cypriot leader Dimitris Christofias’ offer. But one day after negotiations began on the controversial property issue, the reflection of these talks in the Greek media led to mutual accusations and prevented the talks from proceeding in a healthy manner, he noted.

Eroğlu stressed the gravity of the issue, noting that while not a single word was to be found on the details of the negotiations in the Turkish press and despite the fact that a general framework had not been agreed upon, the topics and documents on the negotiating table were published in the Greek media. The Turkish side views this situation as a sign of insincerity on the Greeks’ part, Eroğlu said, adding that the KKTC has good intentions and is exerting all of its efforts toward finding a peaceful solution.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/08/2010 22:43

Eroğlu said the Turkish side’s sincerity and care when it comes to these issues has been commended by special UN representative to Cyprus Alexander Downer and other international organizations. Emphasizing that in September the two sides are going to share their broad proposals for dealing with property issues on the island with each other, Eroğlu stressed that October and November would mark arrival at an important level in the negotiations. He added that around that time Downer would be preparing a report on the two sides’ progress, to be presented to the UN secretary-general.



A reverse approach to the Annan plan



Eroğlu said the Greek side insisted upon an irrational proposal when it came to the subject of property sharing. Their approach, which favors former property owners despite the passage of 35 years, contradicts both the Annan plan and rulings by the European Court of Human Rights, he said.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/08/2010 22:44

Along with the return of property, exchange and compensation mechanisms can also be deployed, Eroğlu noted, saying: “According to the Greek proposal, which emphasizes the former property owners, there are no rights for the new residents of, say, 30-40 unit apartment complexes that have been built on land that was only a field 35 years ago. If the field’s former owner wants to pay for the development of the property and become its owner, then those 30-40 families become renters in their homes. This is not an acceptable, rational proposal. It goes against the Annan plan and European court decisions. What we’re saying is that we should put a percentage on the property development figure; let’s give some rights of choice to the new owners who have developed that immovable property above a certain percentage. If you keep giving these rights to the original owners without looking at the development percentage -- knowing that society will not look kindly upon this, will not accept this -

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/08/2010 22:45

Recalling that Europe has significant experience when it comes to dealing with such issues, Eroğlu said: “You can’t ignore rights that have been created as time goes by. The ground we’re standing upon [in our perspective] is confirmed by the European Court.”



‘Discoveries of remains brings closure, rekindles our grief’

Through the efforts of a commission established to research missing persons cases, the remains of 300 of the 800 Turks who went missing between 1963 and 1974 have been located in individual and mass graves. Asked by Today’s Zaman’s about the discovery of the remains of his brother-in-law earlier this year, Eroğlu said: “The weight of conscience drives individuals to tip off the commission, and the graves of missing persons are thereby found. But because the number of those who were alive in those days is decreasing as we go, confessions and tips are becoming less frequent by the day.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
15/08/2010 22:52

no 1



the gc,s are still hoping for the impossible ,it,s not going to happen the tc,s now have rooted deep ,we no longer want our houses and our lands left in the south ,unlike the greeks.



we prefer the peace.



musin



long live the KKTC

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
15/08/2010 23:00

No 1 Bill i have had a very intersting conversation tonight with a tc friend in the buisness here. he knows so much but i have to read between the lines.All he ever tells me iswait until the end of the year/ Tonight i said i am fed up man spit it out should we go or stay, same answer. I eventually got it. Petrol. in the seas brtwen syria cyprus and turkey.I asked what about grece answer the will now have to talk to us and we open the ports. I wanted to tell newlad dfirst but i had to share it. I asked about the brits homes being sold his answer was mickey mouse went for the big wheel of cheese and mammy mouse said no, he answered mum if its a big block i have to take it, mammy said you take a little and often. make of that what you will. he then took me back to our original conversation of course we will be turkish, now the law is 2 thirds turkisk tio one third cypriot to live here. makes you think. He also surprised me when i said how can they invest some much in hotels, easy the turk

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
15/08/2010 23:02

cont the turkish can, they see the futurex. i asked how do you feel about it, i welcome it x

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
15/08/2010 23:23

Thank you both Doyen and Lilli for your input.



Its interesting to hear both your information and Im sure that it is going to have an effect onthe TRNC.



Yes I live in Beirut and there is talk here about the possibility of OIL in the area described by Lilli.

But the GC's will not budge on anything as they are indoctrinated at School and by the Church so there will be no compromise at all. Also they think they hold the upper hand regarding 'Settlers' what about all the Eastern Eupopeans that there are in the south. You go anywhere and they are there so I hope the TRNC Officials bring this to the table!!

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
15/08/2010 23:28

Hiya Ang he was adament, they want it they pay, somehow i got the impression that they think they do, but it was told to me differently, always 3 sides to a storty, yours mine and the truthm ang i guesss again we wait x

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/08/2010 23:36

My view is that the talks will break down before the year is out.

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
15/08/2010 23:45

its also strange how the greeks politicians from all partys are going on about marash ( verosha) and morphu being handed back like was intended in the annan plan which the south rejected. ive been back a week after spending a month in the TRNC while i was over it was obvious reading all the snippets that the "end game " is being played out here and all roads seem to end in seperation .



long live the kktc

hal9000


Joined: 01/12/2008
Posts: 154

Message Posted:
15/08/2010 23:48

No 1;

I disagree; I think the talks will go on to the end of the year because neither of the leaders want to be the one who walked away. At the end of the year the UN, the EU and the rest of the world will realise what we've all known for years; there can never be agreement between two such entrenched communities.

Next year there will be major changes here; probably the first moves will be made towards Turkey incorporating the TRNC as another state. There will be huge protests from the TCs but it will happen anyway. What alternative is there?

I think that anyone who can hold on for another 3-5 years will reap the benefits. The Turks (government and private enterprise) that are pouring many millions of dollars into the country expect a return on their investment. They can afford to wait for a few years.

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
15/08/2010 23:48

I think that that will be the case and DOYEN the sooner the better that it does. The sooner that Turkey then comes and realises that this 'Government' is a sham and corrupt and so full of nepotism the better for ALL WHO LIVE HERE.



Lilli you have survived a long time with business and I take my hat off to you and Guido, thats why I am always interested in your comments as they are valid and not speculation. Unlike a lot of other 'experts' on this site !!

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
15/08/2010 23:54

Thanks ang i forgot about that, i did mention it , reply well the british think they have it, it not greek or cyp so we do not know, i then got a history lesson, its to long but it has opened my eyes x

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
15/08/2010 23:57

by the way ang thank you xxx

rdsteve


Joined: 01/03/2009
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
16/08/2010 06:42

Message 9 Is there no news stations in Beiruit. There are Eastern Europeon Countries in the EU same as RoC it is called freedom of movement within the EU how can that be bought to the table wake up or keep up.



Steve

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
16/08/2010 08:06

RDSTEVE,



Point I was making was to do with all the NON Cypriots in the South, as the South love to harp on about the NON Cypriots here. Yes the freedom of movement, but you missed my point regarding influx of foreigners.

As you still do not realise TRNC is not in the EU and is not affected by the freedom of movement, yet they (TC's) have had the settlers issue thrown at them from day 1, so my point is if the GC's can be allowed to use that then why cant the TC's use the fact of the EU's freedom of movement.

rdsteve


Joined: 01/03/2009
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
16/08/2010 14:36

TRNC may not be in the EU but i don't see it refusing EU money which the ROC is part of and contributes to the funds.. All the signs going up with the EU flag on them saying what the EU is contributing on new building projects. As for your other point it is a non starter.



Steve

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
16/08/2010 15:19

sit tight carpet baggers all will be well soon

walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
16/08/2010 15:19

They never will. The hatred is too inbred for them to negotiate a final solution which will be acceptable to all. Accepting what is, is very difficult for many of them.



It will be a two state solution at best! The hospitality businesses which have great influence in the RoC do not want one Cyprus because they will lose most of the tourist industry to the North.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
16/08/2010 15:25

msge 19



"which the ROC is part of and contributes to the funds"



Do you know this to be true? Have the GC' s contributed to the EU coffers more than they have received in EU funding?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
16/08/2010 16:04

lilli re message 7:



perhaps your friend meant natural gas



there is a small field off the israeli coast at ashkelon

and a big discovery in their zone at leviathan further out

noble petroleum of usa also thinks it has a related modest

prospect but just to the east of the cyprus blocs



'course in an ideal world, the island's situation would be

greatly improved with water from turkey's mountains,

elecricity from russia's atomic plants to be built in turkey

and israeli natural gas



perhaps for starters both sides could agree on terms used,

to the gc administration the "cyprob"

but for turkish cypriots "basic issues of security and guarantee"



after all, the talks must now be in their closing stages

after nearly two years... so never a better time for compromise



andre

Dusterbruce


Joined: 03/08/2007
Posts: 1125

Message Posted:
16/08/2010 17:21

‘Greek Cypriots not bringing feasible proposals to negotiation table'





They never did!!!!!

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
16/08/2010 19:58

hal9000 has it ,3 to 5 years ,top,s 5 years no outcome ,which i and most tc,s believe there won,t be not even in a hundred years ,then the kktc will become a part of turkey, if we do not get recognition beforehand.









musin





long live the KKTC

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
16/08/2010 23:19

I have argued for a long while that a two-year marathon process

that even now creeps towards its last rites

is not the way successful agreements are achieved in practice



either one side is overwhelmingly strong and can dictate "terms"

eg russia you must leave germany now and accept german unification

and the then-weak eastern power just had to agree



or you have a trade-off eg land for peace the camp david accords,

ie one side hands over sinai in return for a demilitarized zone and

of course full recognition



there is nothing intrinsically wrong in the greek cypriot popular view

that effective majority rule with safeguards and restoration of lands,

is a fair way forward:

if the cyprus turks trusted them they might have accepted that long ago,

a thorny question are the gains of 1974 in terms of safety and homeland



as stated this is why one "well-known blogger" calls on turkey to make

all the compromises necessary to get that fateful signature on the paper



andre

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
17/08/2010 16:20

Hi Muhsin - Re ; msg - "We no longer want our houses and our lands left in the south, unlike the Greeks ... we prefer the peace"



Interesting you should say that, because, according to the referendum in 2006, 65% want reunification. However, I agree with you, amongst TCs in your age group and older, it would seem that the majority are very content with the current status quo - after all a lot of TCs have a lot to lose, if indeed there is a "solution" ... and international inspectors are brought in to examine the flood of GC claims for the land they once owned.



I have been trying to search the internet to find the map showing the distribution of land pre-74, but I couldn't find it:-( However, I do remember that well over half the land in the north was Greek-owned and approximately 80% in the south. Not really surprısing then that many TCs wouldn't want to return to their land in the south - after all they were probably allocated far more in the north.



Crumpy

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
17/08/2010 16:48

Crumpy

As again you dont mention any entitlements of the TCs could you tell us what should happen to land previously owned by TCs in the south? Dont know if your figure of 80% is anywhere near correct but a lot of ex-GC land in the north is scrub only fit for goats unlike Larnaca airport and the small parcels of land, houses and shops which covered large parts of Pathos.

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
17/08/2010 17:31

Hi again Breezyboy,



I'm glad you asked about the "land previously owned by TCs in the south" - According to the elderly TC friend of my fiance's family (who for obvious reasons would prefer to remain anonymous) hardly any of that land has been touched and although some of the houses are being lived in by GCs, they haven't been sold.



Friendishpaul supports this, when in msg 12 on the current parallel thread ; http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/42942.asp , he wrote



"A few years back we were living in the South and looked at numerous properties. On a few occasions we looked at properties that were adjacent to 'open land'. When we enquired as to whether this land would be built upon, we were told that it was Turkish land and no one was allowed to build on it. Was over in the South a few weeks back and visited one of the villages that we considered buying in and the 'Turkish' land was still undeveloped."



Regards,

Crumpy

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
17/08/2010 19:59

crumpy



2006 is 2006 ,nowadays more and more turkish cypriots are content, i just like to point out that during the conflict in 74 my family were all in london ,so my father and mother have every right to their land and their

properties in the south ,one piece of land they own almost on the beach near larnaca has since had two multi storey buildings built on it ,recently we were approached to sell the land and have since had several offers.



my mother will never sell the land or her home ,so i spoke to a solicitor and asked for rents on my mothers

lands from the buildings on the land and have since been adviced there were no buildings .



i have also been adviced that i cannot go through these channels as from their records i was in cyprus during the conflict ,true ,i was on holiday at the airport boarding my flight to leave when everyone was saying something was happening.

my point is that we have now come to terms with our loses ,so the kktc lives in peace.



musin

cyprusman3



Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 297

Message Posted:
17/08/2010 20:55

The inbred arrogance of the Gc 's and racial discrimination which is part of their brainwashed subconscious will never ever change !! It's their inheritance !!!!!

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
17/08/2010 21:38

Hi again Musin,



Firstly let me apologise for a mistake - the referendum was in 2004. not 2006.



Secondly, as I am a person who likes to be clear of all the facts, can you a clarify a few points?



You wrote that your parents have "one piece of land they own almost on the beach near larnaca ... which has since had two multi storey buildings built on it ... recently we were approached to sell the land and have since had several offers."



Does this mean the said buildings were built without your family's permission? And as yet for which you have received no money?



You went on to write that your Mother will never sell the land or her home, so you arranged for a lawyer to collect rents for the buildings on the land ... but were subsequently told there were no buildings on the land.

So you mean the Greek authorities are lying ? ie. in that there are indeed these "multi-storey buildings" on the land.



Yanlış anlama gardacığım - sadece doğrulu

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
18/08/2010 00:53

it is a continuing mystery to me why so many on this forum

seem to be writing "as if" from the point of view of the greek cypriots



there is nothing intrinsically wrong or right in this:

just that of course there are always two sides in every dispute



but the cypriot turks are our hosts

true north cyprus has a litany of problems almost beyond listing

and they are trying to tackle them with very mixed results indeed



nonetheless it is clear that the locals do not trust the south at all,

both due to the events of 1963-1974 and for lack of seriousness

about a willingness to compromise



probably some on the blog cannot imagine or perhaps don't want

to picture what it must have been like to suffer oppression and fear,

prior to the peace operation



maybe they see themselves as somehow objective if that is possible

or even at heart they feel the gc's are "one of us", as mrs thatcher

might have put it



the talks are a charade mainly to appease foreign countries, trust me

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
18/08/2010 11:03

The fact remains that the young Cypriots from both sides don't really know what they 'hate' - it's only from what they have been told.



Wouldn't it have been much better to bring young Cypriots together to the negotiating table to discuss a contemporary future of mutual benefit and leave the past behind?



What use is it for old EOKA/ENOSIS and TMT supporters trying to thrash out a deal?



They're simply 'shovelling peas with a pitchfork'!



As for Downer - I reckon they'd be better to replace him, pronto, with our favourite Australian bard - Kevin 'Bloody' Wilson' - at least he'd give 'em 'the message'!