Sea Terra Reserve and the Mortgages

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 15:17

This subject came up in msgs. 71-75 http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/49725.asp, so I decided to start a fresh thread because I consider it very important.

Sea Terra Reserve has several mortgages on the land and there has been nothing but promises for the last few years to have them lifted in a matter of months. The original small mortgage by the previous land owner has been paid off and lifted but the crux is the current mortgages all owned by a company which seems to have some sort of relationship with the developer. This makes it all the more dangerous because of possible collaboration and manupulation between them. So far they have refrained from announcing the actual amounts involved to date. However they are offering exclusion letters to old and prospective buyers about the mortgages. Such letters are of dubious legal value and certainly no substitute for the actual removal of these mortgages. So be warned.

ismet

PS: According to the Registration of Estate Agents law which was passed in 2007 and became operational on 2nd January 2008, it is illegal to sell mortgaged property without the approval of the buyer. Who knows about it?

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 16:38

elko2: Your PS information could prove vital for many involved in the next bout of 'banking irregularities' -[1,400 has been quoted - by Mr. Rauf Denktash at the Kulaksiz 5 auction].



What a shame [in the real sense of the word] that this legislation was not retrospective. Had it been so, TRNC's image would not have become so irrepairably tarnished.

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 16:46

eeeek: does this include both the "Sea" and the "mountain" resort? I was shown both earlier this year, and nobody mentioned it.

Both are marketed for my fellow Scandinavian buyers:

http://www.finn.no/finn/realestate/abroad/homes/object?finnkode=17614953&sid=sid/2010/11/25/15/xz0361290696032335y



http://www.finn.no/finn/realestate/abroad/homes/object?finnkode=17614935&sid=sid/2010/11/25/15/xz0441290696267732y



http://www.finn.no/finn/realestate/abroad/homes/object?finnkode=18769238&sid=sid/2010/11/25/15/xz0441290696267732y

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 16:57

I must make a correction with respect to my PS in msg. 1. It does not exactly say "it is illegal", what it does say is that the Vendor cannot make a Sale Agreement with regard to a property which has a mortgage or encumbrance on it unless agreed otherwise with the buyer. Law no. 38/2007, clause 21(1)(B) .



So in effect if such an Agreement is signed, in my opinion:

1. The Land Registry should refuse to register it, failing that they should be held responsible for losses as well,

2. The Buyer can claim the Agreement to be null and void when such a mortgage is discovered if its not too late.

3. If the Vendor is a company, I am inclined to believe that the Director and/or whoever signed on behalf of the vendor should be held personally responsible for the losses

ismet

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 16:59

Famagusta,

Sea Terra is fine, they have their separate title deeds but of course you should not take anything for granted. The mortgages I mentioned above are for Reserve.

ismet

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 17:06

elko2: By my local Scandinavian law, property seller are required to disclose the full price (including mortgages) when they advertise a property.



I do not know if the price given (see the links above) include the mortgages or not. But if it does not: they are breaking our local law.

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 17:11

msg 5:

Ah, so that is why they are offering "25 % discount for the next 5 properties sold":



http://www.finn.no/finn/realestate/abroad/homes/object?finnkode=17614935&sid=sid/2010/11/25/15/xz0441290696267732y

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 17:55

msg 6

Famagusta " By my local Scandinavian law, property seller are required to disclose the full price (including mortgages) when they advertise a property."



I think we are talking about two different things. If you are offered a property for so much and you can pay for it over say ten years, then the quoted price should include all the costs including mortgages. Here we are talking about something else. There is a mortgage on the land and thus what you pay to the Vendor carries a risk i.e. you pay the whole price but you may not get the property because the bank or mortgagge owner may get it and you are left with a candle to light (if you can get permission for it)

ismet

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 19:42

We informed people about these mortgages in March 2009. See http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/12542.asp where you can read our story.



Unfortunately, Seaterra breached two contracts they had with us, they have failed to pay off the mortgages, and refused to give us any further details about the interest rates charged. The initial mortgages totalled £2 million in 2008. The director of Seaterra, Eyal Podhorzer, said he did not have to tell us anything despite our many requests for information. (Good customer service!) We all know about the extortionate interest rates of 80% charged in the Kulaksiz tragedy, and our concern was that the interest rate could be something similar. There are four companies involved in these mortgages - Seaterra/Marsol Properties/Dalcross Trading/Amiel Investments and Developments Ltd - and they all appear to be sister/pheonix companies. This means they could move money around between the companies and charge what interest they like with no comeback. Cont...

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 19:48

Because of their refusal to discuss the relationship between these companies and the specific details of the mortgages and interest rates, we believe this is highly suspicious. If one of the companies involved decides to call in the mortgage, then IMHO it will the buyers who will have to pay or face eviction, just like Kulaksiz. They have made repeated promises to pay off these mortgages for many years and yet they still haven't done so.



Whilst Seaterra have issued a so called "mortgage exclusion letter" to buyers, the legalities of this have not been tested in court. Consider this: Many people on other sites have previously registered there contracts, thinking they were safeguarded, but when the landowner owed someone else money, the debtor was allowed to issue a memorandum on the land which overrode the registered contract. Then of course when the landowner wants to get his money back, he will be able to force the sale of the land. Cont...

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 19:54

This means that if registering a contract doesn't safeguard your investment, then a mortgage exclusion letter (which isn't even a contract) won't do so either.

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 20:02

as I think Ismet will confirm registering the contracts doesnt not protect from memorandums which many dubious builders are now using.



It has yet to be challenged in the courts that registration should overide memorandums but to date dont think there has been an outcome.



Just another way of forcing people to pay extra monies and a memorandum can be placed after a successful judgement and you wont know until you frequently check at the land registry.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 20:09

Which makes you wonder why on earth any 'new' protection will help 'new' purchasers when the law seems to skewed in favour of anyone but the purchaser.



famagusat 99 TO ME YOU MAKE ERFECT SENSE. Unfortunately, this is a country that is a law unto itself and whatever is advantageous to the locals will be the LEGAL outcome. God help us all.

BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 21:29

If Sea Terra didn't adhere to there original contracts there unlikely to adhere to a simple mortgage exclusion letter. This letter was only given to all purchasers to calm there fears after Sea Terra was exposed in the press and on the internet for there incredible deception regarding a wopping £2million mortgage plus unknown interest!



So if the interest rate is similar to Kulaksiz situation (80%) then the £2million mortgage which has been in place approx three years could be in the region of £11million! 200 apartments on site thats £55,000 per apartment, probably more than what you paid for it.



Once Sea Terra have sold the remaining 50 unsold apartments (note the price being reduced further) then they will call in the mortgages via one of there phoenix companies. They will scare purchasers with the £55,000 per apartment bill first then reduce it to an eventual ammount purchasers can afford probably £10,000 approx, afterall you are the easy targets. The above is just my opinion.

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 21:59

kibrissibel: thank you so very much for your information, both here, and the other thread. Can you still be reached by the email given in the other thread?



Btw, in Scandinavia Sea Terra now offers 30% off for investors who buy several properties, and there are "only 59 left":

http://www.finn.no/finn/realestate/abroad/homes/object?finnkode=17614935&sid=sid/2010/11/25/15/xz0441290696267732y



Elko, msg 6: I am not sure I understand. "Up north" we are quite familiar with the fact that owning the land, and owning the property are two different things. (I finally managed to buy the land that my house is on many, many years after buying the house). I am not an estate-agent; but I do know that the rules

of full disclosure are extremely strict. If the land is not included in the price (like, it was in my case, when I first bought my house), then that information must of course be given.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 22:19

famagusta99 - yes, you can still reach me on that email.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 00:06

msg. 15

Famagusta,

Now I understand your confusion. In Cyprus, there is one single title deed for the land and the house or trees on it. So the owner of the land is also the owner of any house on it.

In the old days, trees could belong to other people but this was sorted out many years ago and the land owner had to buy the trees.

ismet

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 00:59

msg 16: thanks, noted.

msg 17: ah, that was interesting. So basically you do not have the "lease"-system, common in my country (and also in England, I think? )

At home, it has been a very common practice, especially when it came to 2.nd homes in the country-side. Typically, a farmer would sell a lease of a plot of land to a city-dweller to build his/her vacation-cottage on, and then sit back and collect a certain annual rent. The increase in rent could then over the years result in endless possibilities for hostilities....



In my case it was the city, or city council, who owned my land. I spent 3 years, and endless phonecalls, before I could take a triple salto of joy the day the sale got through.



However; I was of course made fully aware of who owned the land when I bought my house, indeed, it was part of the contract. As required by law. So I went into that situation with "eyes wide open".

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 01:34

Famagusta,

We had a recent law about leasing up to 99 year and does not require any Permission to Purchase for foreigners but I am not sure if this law is operational now. Suppose you lease a place for 99 years and suppose you pay the full lease price in advance. So for the next 99 years its yours including the land. According to the law the title deed will look similar to current title deeds but the heading will say Lease rather than title deed and will include agreed stipulations. Perhaps this may solve your problem ?

ismet

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 02:19

Oh no, never a lease for me again!



But that sounds very much like the English system? I know some of the very central areas of London are owned by aristocrats (Duke of Westminster), who then lease out flats/houses for 99 years.



There was also a lot of writing in the local press about the London leases, as "Oljefondet" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway ) just bought a part lease from the Crown Estates properties in Regent Street....for 500 million £, no less..... So yes: I do know a lease is not neccessarely without value!



Oh, also in Egypt (which is probably where I will go, instead of Cyprus): the law is now (by Presidential decree) that all new properties are only given on a lease, for 99years, not freehold. However, this decree is just on Sinai (to save it from being bought up by Israelis, I was told)...not the rest of Egypt.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 18:08

Fevzi, the chairman of Embargoed! is hosting a radio show tomorrow regarding buyers' property problems in TRNC. I've just forwarded him details regarding the £2 million mortgages plus unknown interest that Seaterra took out on their Reserve site without our permission, breaching many contracts.





This is the request for info: http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/52867.asp

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 19:37

Sibelle,

Which radio station and what time?

ismet

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 19:48

TUNE IN ON THE INTERNET http://www.londonturkishradio.org. Fevzi and Canan invite you to commnicate with them. THe topic on Tues is the advisability of investing in TRNC, PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE. They want you to take part phone 00 44 208 881 2020 / 0606 text 0044 780 6932966 or e mail drivetimeltr@gmail.com



You can be anonymous it you wish. Take part on Tuesday 8.00 to 10 p.m. live radio







go to http://www.londonturkishradio.org







see more by Pauline on NCFP SHORTLY

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 21:58

And who better to speak on the radio programme than you, Ismet!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 22:50

Sibelle,

I will be pretty busy tomorrow Tuesday 4th January giving out copies of my video to MPs and others. I intend to follow it up very vigorously until we have the laws changed to make buying property in TRNC safe. I hope we can also do something to the current victims as well.

ismet

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
04/01/2011 06:54

Tomorrow night Ismet, 8.00 to 10.00 our time, you would be great. We need people like you.



Thanks apc2010 and krissibel for bringing into this thread. Still pretty 'crook' so grateful for all the help I can get.



see c44 AND NCFP for full details on how to access the radio station here.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
24/01/2011 20:48

We attended court again 23/1/11 re our case against Seaterra. Seaterra have made an application to Land Registry to lift the mortgages from our apartment only. They've been promising this for over 2 years! However, we don't believe it's possible to lift it from just one apartment. Also, if they don't lift it from the communal areas & roads, we could be landlocked or the apartment will be worthless.



Eyal Podhorzer claimed in early 2008 that once all the funds were in for the apartments, they would pay off the mortgages. Most people paid for and took possession in Aug/Sept 2008. According to Land Registry, Seaterra paid nothing off the mortgages, despite them claiming they'd repaid £1 Million. Seaterra have since sold approx 12 apts in the last 18 months - these new sales amount to approx £600,000. Where's all the money gone and why haven't the mortgages been paid off? Do any buyers know what the interest rate is and, more importantly, does anyone have any proof of what it is?

berilela


Joined: 17/07/2010
Posts: 590

Message Posted:
24/01/2011 20:55

looks like your be joining what we going through with our builder boyuts

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
24/01/2011 20:58

kibrissibel (mess27)



I wish I could help you! but I have no idea! "where has all the money gone", I have been asking that for 5 years, and 5 years on "No Reply"!!!!!!!!!!



You might as well be talking to the "Man in the Moon"

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
24/01/2011 21:24

Kibrissibel



Seaterra have since sold approx 12 apts in the last 18 months - these new sales amount to approx £600,000.



What I find amazing is that 12 people have since bought on Seaterra even with a mortgage on this property. Did they not receive this information from their advocate? Was it dismissed as nothing to worry about and standard practice in the TRNC?



How can this have happened? What sort of confidence and message does it give anyone considering buying in the TRNC, if something like this can happen so easily?

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
24/01/2011 21:39

only a new member amazed people still buying after all the advice given

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
24/01/2011 22:55

philbailey (mess 31)



It's "Airy Fairy Land"

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
26/01/2011 17:06

Berilela - good luck with your plight against Boyut.



TRNC Victim - the man in the moon might make more sense!

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
26/01/2011 17:07

Bradus - When this was first bought to people's attention, it seemed people just wanted to bury their heads in the sand. I have been banned from the ST Reserve owners forum. I wonder why!



A lot of buyers were hostile to us or didn't want to know. Many of the buyer's views seemed to be to keep us quiet so ST could carry on selling apartments, hoping their mortgage would be paid off. But as stated above, this clearly isn't working. For exmple, Pipie has recommended ST on the Walkerscott threads, despite being fully aware there are huge mortgages on there. Why? Only recently ST were offering existing buyers commission if they sold apartments for them!



cont...

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
26/01/2011 17:12

One of the things our previous lawyer said (since been sacked) when we discovered these mortgages is that £2 million is not a lot spread over 200 apartments! But she couldn't tell us what the interest rate was. I suspect many lawyers are still giving this kind of advice.



The world has become such a selfish place and greed has got the better of some people.



The question people should ask themselves is would they advise their mother, sister, daughter, gran to buy under these circumstances. The answer is no. They do it because they don't care about the consequences for buyers. One has to question their morals.

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
26/01/2011 17:19

Message 34 that name made me smile, it has caused more heartache through lack of thought and know it all attitude but some of this boards members think the sun shines out of the proverbial, and this is not hounding by the way, but fact

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
26/01/2011 17:23

Kibrisssibel this is particular to your site and not all Sea Terra Sites



Esentepe and the Marina have their Kochans - please make that clear.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
26/01/2011 17:32

kibrissibel.



The Sea Terra Marina had the site handed over with no mortgage on the land.



The sea Terra Marina site also have all of there Kochans.



The Sea Terra Marina site was handed over completed with electric and water.



So in a nutshell we have none of the above problems.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
26/01/2011 17:58

Sienna - I think the title of the thread makes it clear this is the Reserve site.



Sienna/Pipe - You are very lucky you’ve got your deeds, as you could’ve been in the same situation. IMHO, once a company lies, deceives, and acts this way, how can they possibly be recommended to future buyers who could possibly lose their life savings? Would someone recommend getting in a car with the Yorkshire Ripper just because they weren’t attacked?



Cont...

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
26/01/2011 17:59

I believe it’s important to make this kind of information public so future buyers don’t fall into the same situation. And when I get time, I will make a website, which details the actions of Seaterra’s directors, Eyal Podhorzer and Jacob Verthaizer, including their lies and deceit that is fully documented. I want any potential new buyers to know exactly the stress, illness, misery, and financial loss they’ve caused by their actions, because it may happen to them. One of the many things you should do when you’re about to do business with the unknown is to Google their names.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
26/01/2011 18:08

Yes the title is clear but other sites are getting mixed up in this so I wanted it made clear this does not effect



ESENTEPE SITE



what you do or say about the owners of Sea Terra is up to you and them



The Reserve site was built after Esentepe and the Marina site so they have nothing to do with this

ToyaW


Joined: 04/06/2010
Posts: 37

Message Posted:
26/01/2011 18:21

Well my friends on SeaTerra Reserve have just been told their Kocan is ready and they are now coming through.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
26/01/2011 18:40

It would be great if they do. If only they would stop promising and do it. They've been promising this to us for over two years, and I'm Turkish Cypriot, so I don't need PTP.



As far as I'm aware there hasn't been any case where title deeds have been given to individual apartments or villas where a mortgage covers the whole unparcelised site.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
26/01/2011 18:49

Well if they are ready - go and transfer them they are either ready or not

bayliner


Joined: 27/02/2011
Posts: 1

Message Posted:
27/02/2011 21:30

Hi Everyone

I am new and been interested in a property at Sea Terra Reserve for a while. This is quite disturbing to read. Is anyone any nearer, and by the way what's a Kocan?

walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
27/02/2011 21:32

www.no-deeds-no-money.moonfruit.com

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
27/02/2011 22:10

Bayliner,

Generally speaking, you should not touch any property with a mortgage on it. There is always a risk that even if you pay the full purchase price for a property it can be taken away from beneath your feet because a mortgage takes priority over your interests. "Kocan" means "title deeds".

ismet

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
27/02/2011 22:38

Bayliner,



If you have any sense you wll not touch this site or any other with a mortgage on the land! look at walkerscott's website



NO DEEDS NO MONEY! KOCAN MEANS DEEDS!