Selling in Kyrenia pre '74 title

Goobs


Joined: 07/05/2011
Posts: 2

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 17:46

I have looked at this forum off and on for a while now and was prompted to join as my parents (British) own a house in Kyrenia that quite honestly they need to sell as it is becoming a pain rather than a pleasure. They did their research before buying and took the plunge 8 years ago and bought an older house with pre 74 title. They obtained PTP a year later. At the time it seemed the right thing to do but, having read about all the problems in obtaining PTP now I am worried that they could be stuck with it for some time to come.

It is in a lovely spot which seems to comprise mainly Cypriot owned houses but I do not know if the recent difficulties in foreigners getting PTP on pre 74 title means that the list of potential buyers will be significantly smaller?

Also, if anyone has a recommendation of a good agent it would be lovely to hear!

Thanks in advance.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 18:11

At least your parents, presumably having 'Kocan', can't be scammed with a mortgage, or memorandum - or can they?



This is what happened to us: Prior to purchasing our pre 1974 Turkish Title villa, the previous owner had taken out a mortgage, which had been repaid in full and we saw the documents to prove it. When we came to pay the Stamp Duty on our property, Tapu Office told us that there was a mortgage on it. Because our Vendor's bank still held the file with the discharged mortgage details, the crooked bank manager, in cahoots with a crooked advocate, forged our Vendor's signature and helped themselves to a large 'loan'. It cost us a fortune in utterly ineffectual litigation. The outcome, fortunately, was that this bank manager tried it once too often and upset the 'Powers That Be' and got himself arrested and gaoled; our mortgage was discharged. Apart from the obvious loopholes in the law that can be so easily taken advantage of, who, in their right mind, will buy here now?

FraserMeridie


Joined: 17/09/2010
Posts: 18

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 20:41

Hi,



Pre-74 is currently very popular and in very high demand with local clients and I will be happy to discuss this further with you.



Our office is located opposite Dome hotel.



Please check our website http://www.frasermeridies.com and if I can answer any queries you can contact me on idris@frasermeridies.com



Regards

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 21:26

Goobs,

Worry not. Your parents were wise to go about things the right way and are fortunate they did not experience the crooks Tenakatou did (glad he got jailed, Tenak. Do you think he found a new use for soap? )

Pre-74 property is like hens' teeth and is valuable. Nobody can sue you for it and it's recognised the world over. I see an estate agent has lost no time in getting involved so have a chat with them.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 23:08

If your parents got PTP the TRNC government cant refuse another expat PTP.

cyprus1


Joined: 19/02/2007
Posts: 154

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 23:14

Just sold our pre 74 English title deed villa and no problems at all, go ahead with message 3 you will not go wrong, good luck.

Steve.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
08/05/2011 09:30

Hector/msg 5: 'If your parents got PTP the TRNC government cant refuse another expat PTP.'



From where is that 'written in stone'?



Goobs/Msg 1: I was merely relating our own nightmare experience, which was in addition to being refused PTP - however, I sincerely wish you every success with an early and profitable sale.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
08/05/2011 09:48

PS to Msg 7:



Worth a read, or re-read for some:



http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/54967.asp

walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
08/05/2011 10:10

Brian

Please email me. Friends of mine may be able to help your parents.

John

Goobs


Joined: 07/05/2011
Posts: 2

Message Posted:
10/05/2011 20:35

Thank you for all your replies and apologies it has taken me so long to respond. Health permitting they will be over in 3 weeks and I hope they will take the plunge and sell. They have the Kocan so hopefully there will be no issues there. As for a profitable sale, I don't know, but I certainly hope for a speedy one. Thanks again

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
10/05/2011 20:38

Good luck. Pre-74 is highly sought after and if the paperwork is all in order and the price realistic, it should go pretty fast.

PlatinumNC


Joined: 08/03/2011
Posts: 60

Message Posted:
11/05/2011 10:09

Hi Goobs,



Please can you email me further details as we have a client looking for a Turkish title deed property in the Kyrenia area.



My email is enquiries@platinumproperties-northcyprus.com



http://www.platinumproperties-northcyprus.com

kateo


Joined: 13/01/2009
Posts: 22

Message Posted:
12/05/2011 11:20

Hi Goobs, We have been established in Kyrenia since 1985 and are always looking for properties with paperwork in order. As your parents transferred the property into their name, they can sell onto expats/foreigners as the property is classed as pre 74 British rather than Turkish, as it has already changed hands.

If your parents decided to sell, we would be pleased to help you sell the property

Kin regards



Kate

ian Smith Estate Agents

http://www.iansmithestate.com

info@iansmithestate.com

Senna


Joined: 29/04/2011
Posts: 21

Message Posted:
12/05/2011 21:40

Hi, Goobs,

I would like to help you to sell the property owned by your parents.

Would you like to send me more details to my e-mail

hakki95@hotmail.com

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
12/05/2011 21:55

What the estate agents should tell you is what commission they charge. It can be very steep.

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
13/05/2011 22:43

Msg 13, good info. All this time and I never realised my place is actually Pre-74 British.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
13/05/2011 23:22

Goobs (mess 1)



Be careful! it seems they are all after you the TRNC claws are out they smell money!

miasmum


Joined: 03/06/2011
Posts: 2

Message Posted:
03/06/2011 18:18

hiya ... wot if im in the same situation but with land?

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
03/06/2011 18:40

Msg13....It's all in the wording ie "KIN REGARDS"......

Kambylikid


Joined: 31/10/2009
Posts: 148

Message Posted:
03/06/2011 19:52

Deeds currently dated pre 1960 are classified as "British". After 1960 deeds issued became "Cypriot" on transfer. After 1974 deeds transfered became "TRNC" deeds. Check the Kocan and it's history before buying.

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 00:32

Msg 20,

It's what's entered in the land registry ledger before 1974 that really counts. I can't speak for now, but when I bought 10 years ago you could get an extract copy of ownership listing names of the previous owners of the property. In my case this included GCs and TCs who bought and sold to each other right back to the British administration in the 1950s. So while my TRNC kocan may be of local interest, what really counts is the piece of paper issued by the RoC land registry.

walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
04/06/2011 00:38

http://north-cyprus-property.moonfruit.com/#/forsalebyowner/4550168581

Kim97


Joined: 09/06/2011
Posts: 4

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 14:03

We were recently told by an Ian Smith representative that our pre-1974 Turkish title (bought in 1993 with all documents in order)meant we could only sell to Turkish Cypriots, yet building sites still proudly advertise that they are on such land in English so who knows what the reality is! As a frequent returner to North Cyprus, I'm really pleased to see how much of the new building work is attractive and well-planned. However, it seems the property laws are unclear, leaving far too many opportunities for exploitation and deterring potential buyers.

dinner-dave


Joined: 14/08/2011
Posts: 48

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 16:42

message 23 makes a very valis d point.



as ever "buyer beware".

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
17/08/2011 06:11

One infers from your posts Goobs, YOU want your parents to sell THEIR house - so many children think for their parents, either with an eye to their future inheritance or thinking for them as though for all their years, they can't think for themselves?



I bought my house years ago from a couple that loved it. They were in their early seventies, both in excellent health; husband loved his beautiful, outside in it and his shed, daily, one side full of veg and rhubarb, the other, grassed over with great selection of flowers - the front garden, a joy to behold. They moved (on the advice and constant pushing of their only child) to a new block of 20 flats along the road - I often meet them and to this day, they weep daily - HATE the flats, are the only ones in, in the day - the old boy misses his garden terribly, has nothing to do, she misses (told me only last week) hanging washing out and sitting knitting in the sun, so they are just waiting to pass on now-utterly miserable-so regretful

vesela


Joined: 13/08/2010
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 00:06

We have clients looking for turkish title properties you can e mail me on geolineinvestments@gmail.com

http://www.geo-line.ru

vesela


Joined: 13/08/2010
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 00:07

We have clients looking for turkish title properties you can e mail me on geolineinvestments@gmail.com

http://www.geo-line.ru

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 01:22

Vesela,

do you inform foreign buyers that they won' get PTP hence will never get their deeds if they buy PRE 74 Turkish Title?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 02:04

Bradus;

Are you retiring from doing your job?Is that why you are looking for a replecament?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 02:15

No idea what you are on about. But whats new?

vesela


Joined: 13/08/2010
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 07:30

yes i am informing my clients!But this is the situation now nobody knows how the law will change tomorrow and if you are byuing property as an investment and want to resale is not a problemthat you will not deeds on your name.This is my opinion

Best regards to everybody

Agobard


Joined: 20/08/2008
Posts: 271

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 07:53

According to my (very good) lawyer, there is absolutely no reason why a Turkish title property, currently in the ownership of a foreigner, cannot be sold on to another foreigner. I had this conversation with him quite recently as I was curious, having owned a Turkish title property here for many years. His advice was that if I ever wanted to sell mine, go and see him and he would ensure that, if it was a foreign buyer, they got their PTP. I have never had any reason to doubt his good advice in the past so I'm quite happy to accept this to be the situation.

MrsSnakes



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 1100

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 08:57

Agobard, maybe your Lawyer could help me then! I have been refused on my pre74 this year. Who is your Lawyer please?

Agobard


Joined: 20/08/2008
Posts: 271

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 11:06

Message 33: I don't want to name my lawyer on this forum as this normally leads to a blizzard of 'mine is better than yours' and 'yours is rubbish' etc etc. If you would like to e-mail me direct, I will be happy to pass on this information. E-mail is: sherwood@agobard.com

tarry67


Joined: 16/05/2008
Posts: 1053

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 11:35

Mrs Snakes

I think if it has been in the name of a foreigner before then there is no problem passing it on to another foreigner, but if it is a new build or in the name of a Cypriot then they are not issuing Kocans or PTP.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 13:39

My advocate informed me, eventually, that PTP was being refused on all Pre 74 Turkish Title. There was a blanket refusal. The HBPG having been collecting evidence for sometime also confirmed this. The number of people on this forum sharing their experience would also confirm this.



Whilst I agree with Vesela that you can sit tight and live in your property and sell your property without the deeds, this is not without risk. As we have witnessed the worry with regards to not having deeds is that you are open to memorandums should your developer experience debt problems or bankruptcy. Is this worth the risk?



As far as investments go, if you cannot sell to foreign buyers you really are limiting your market. A market which currently is on its knees and shows no sign of recovery due to the very poor reputation of the construction/legal industry and the world recession.



Mrs Snakes, sorry to hear you have also been refused.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 13:49

Could this PTP ruling have come about,and been somehow influenced by Turkey's strict laws on foreigners buying in certain places other than designated areas.... Just a thought...

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 14:01

martinD41;

......or could it be that Turkey is now in hope of solution and by not allowing deeds to foreigners,she'd be cutting down on the amoun t of compensation,and instead take 'yours' and give it back.





Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote........Benjamin Franklin

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 14:05

Compensation would be for Exchange not Turkish owned wouldn't it Yorgozlu?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 14:09

you are nearly there Bradus..........dig little more deeper and you'll find it.



There is ALWAYS something missing in my comments..........

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 14:16

I have noticed that yorg...

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 15:19

msg38 yorg.. http://www.twainquotes.com/Franklin_Benjamin.html

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 18:14

Oh there's definitely something missing Yog but so many have pointed out what that is that I really don't need to.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 19:38

Bradus as always speaks with wise tongue and through hard earned experience.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 19:56

Thank you Hector. Are you still hanging in there?