Dogs..... What a surprise

poochops


Joined: 09/03/2008
Posts: 64

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 03:36

Hey hey Campers, last visit to our villa we were lucky enough to be befriended on our 4 th day by a beautiful blonde pointer that was clearly a) starving b) well pregnant. Given we only had ten days left were we right to feed her and water (provide her with fresh milk and water) her? Only to leave her 10 days later to fend for herself again? I'd be very interested to hear your views as were out again soon and we only ever come for holidays, but we nearly always get adopted by some dog, cat, donkey or lizard.

Cheers then

Si

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 05:55

I think you have let yourself in for some heavy words of wisdom from both sides of the camp here.



For me, we have two dog's that are part of the family so that put's me in the one side of the camp - BUT - even if we had no dogs I could not refuse food and water to any animal and just chase it off or leave it to starve. Who am I to judge the life or death of such an animal that can not say if it is abandoned or simply lost - pointers are a breed that gives their entire life over to their owners/keepers and will starve themselves to death if they can not find their owners. She may well have been lost and have a frantic owner out there looking for her even now, take "Bob" as an example.



Good for you for helping without thought of reward and even more so for asking the question!

dorothea


Joined: 28/06/2010
Posts: 93

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 10:42

Many Briitish tourists abroad have and always will feed stray animals regardless of any advise, good or bad. Cats generally are survivors because of their hunting skills. Dogs rely on what they can scrounge. I for one when on holiday will feed a stray dog hoping that when I leave, it will latch onto like minded people to survive. This I have witnessed in Cyprus many times.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 10:53

I would do the same - the name of the game would not to be put in that position in the first place I guess, but educating others about dumping animals is a tough one.



There are strays all over the world its not just Cyprus; its how each country deals with the problems, tough decisions that I personally would not like to make as I am an animal soft touch.



Some would say you have to be cruel to be kind, but i cant do it

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 11:30

@ msg 3, dorothea: (...) I for one when on holiday will feed a stray dog hoping that when I leave, it will latch onto like minded people to survive. (...)

▶ You may hope so, but I live here permanently and I see what happens in the real world. For weeks and weeks there are no inhabitants/tourists in the villas around us. But the stray dogs are still in the area, sharing your daydream, while they are looking for open dustbins and maybe some black dustbags.

Don't feed stray animals, please. If you have your heart in the right place and can home a stray - excellent. If you can't home the stray - don't add to the problem. Remember on the plane home the fate of the stray and who are confronted with the problem of stray dogs and cats around their houses and sometimes in their gardens.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 11:32

@ msg 4, sienna: (...) Some would say you have to be cruel to be kind, but i cant do it (...)

▶ Sienna, with due respect, how about this: "Some would say you have to be realistic to be kind and I can do it."

dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 11:56

Well I for one would feed it and do as post 1 has... How on earth you can not feed a starving animal when you are confronted with a bag of bones is beyond me!



Perhaps it would be kinder to take to the vets to be put down, but, what if it is a lost 'bob'?



I would think on the plane going home, if only I had given that poor dog some food for a while, !!



Let it die in front of you... NO WAY..



I just hope the muktars take control of their areas as Lapta has done ...

Roomy


Joined: 20/02/2011
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 12:05

I am with dizzy on this one, as long as the authorities allow strays to roam animal lovers will feed them, asking them not to and expecting them to listen is pretty unrealistic.

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 12:37

feed it of course!! scraps and water cost nothing...yes maybe it will die , but maybe it will have to strength to travel elsewhere and maybe... just maybe get long term help ?

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 12:52

Dutch, I see your points and have to agree with you - sadly I could not do it myself and know that I only exasperate an existing problem by water and food for stray dogs. Blame me as much as you wish but it is not in me to see any animal suffer, sorry.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 12:53

message 6 DC I understand where you are coming from I can see both sides I do get berated for doing it but I cant turn away



Maybe as you say when and if I live there full time I will feel like you' realistic to be kind' then time will tell - Probably end up like Lilli though feed and rehome or keeping them

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 13:13

Dear temporary visitors to Northern Cyprus and other well meaning feeders of stray dogs: take your blinkers off. Stray dogs in the area or on the terrace of your holiday villa may be very dangerous for you and your children. Internal and external parasites to name a few.

From a post on the Internet: "I would not have a dog of unknown vaccination status around my dogs, and the chances of a stray dog having internal and external parasites that will be passed to your dogs are fairly high." I wouldn't like it either, because we have two healthy dogs in Northern Cyprus.

▶ [ http://www.google.com/search?q=stray+dogs+diseases&hl=en&num=10&lr=&ft=i&cr=&safe=images&tbs= ].

Even touching a stray dog may give you a skin disease! He may have drank from your pool and lost dangerous parasites - you may be very sorry for a long time.

Before writing emotional posts here I suggest you first do some reading.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 13:25

And a cynical remark: If you are so sorry for the stray dogs - why don't you put on some gloves and bring a stray to the vet? To have him/her vaccinated with all the stuff (more than you may realise) dogs in Northern Cyprus need on a yearly basis. Put some gloves on, put him/her on a blanket in your hired car and visit the vet. It'll take some of your holiday money and some time. Then feed him if you think or feel you must do it.

P.S. How many of the tourists do it..?! Hmm.

dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 13:27

DC... with due respect its not the ones coming for a holiday to NC who have made the problem! Think you will need to look a little closer to home on this one!



If the dogs, strays were rounded up by who ever and put to sleep, this would be a very worth while project for a lot of bored people... thats if you have the stomach to take responsibility of catching and putting down these animals...



Its all very well to blame holiday makers, kind people, but the problem is of the ones that live full time in NC...



As for catching deseases etc, more the need to do something constructive then, regarding the welfare of your own dogs cats etc...

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 13:48

@ msg 14, dizzycows: (...) DC... with due respect its not the ones coming for a holiday to NC who have made the problem! (...)

▶ I didn't say that, did I? My point is that feeding a stray during a short holiday is keeping the problem alive around the holiday villa AND mine with two healthy dogs in the house and garden. I don't want potentially sick dogs (but that's only one reason) around us.

P.S. Holiday neighbours of ours fed a couple of cats - one of them entered our garden and our dog Dixie (a stray we adopted with all the medical consequences) killed the cat. That's not funny. The holidaymakers were back in the UK and we paid the vet to try (in vain) to save the cat.

P.P.S. There are only two reasonable things to do in Northern Cyprus: humanely kill the stray dogs and cats and don't feed them if you cannot or will not bear the consequences of your kindness. See above.

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 14:10

Re : Msg 13 &15,

Hans, you know the score. So called 'animal lovers': it is so easy to be soppy and cost you nothing , just some water from the tap and some leftovers. And then it makes them feel good about themselves (at no cost).

But as soon as it comes to paying the vets' bills or airfares the army of 'animal lovers' suddenly diminishes!



P.S. What about cats , hopping from table to table almost in all open air restaurants and cafés?

Do we really want Toxoplasmosis, salmonella, ringworms and worse to be part of our dining experience?

dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 15:15

Well lets try another way then, is there any way that those of you who live permanently in NC, work with your Mayor/ Mukter what ever he is called!



Surely there are animal lovers that could help in this, as it would seem that on another thread Lapta Mayor has done just so, some one must have reported the dogs as a nuisance?



Its no good to keep attacking others when a problem needs to be sorted ... No amount of moaning about the strays will sort, its action or nothing .

Holiday makers will always feed the strays, an unfortunate part of loving....



Now thats another issue, cats in the restaurants, do you complain to the owner of the eating place? if not perhaps you should. They wont do any thing about the problem unless make your voice heard.



I know they come up with, 'oh the cats belong to so and so or they are born in the rocks' , well complain about it to the owner.......

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 16:01

Re : Msg 17,

"Now thats another issue, cats in the restaurants, do you complain to the owner of the eating place? if not perhaps you should. They wont do any thing about the problem unless make your voice heard.

I know they come up with, 'oh the cats belong to so and so or they are born in the rocks' , well complain about it to the owner....... "

Do you think I haven't complained? The answer from the owner was : "It is Cyprus!" whilst his waiters continued to feed the food scraps from the plates to cats in front of our noses!

Mind you, other customers (some of them Brits) were throwing food to the cats too.

It puts me off dining out altogether!

I don't fancy food, when cats are allowed to jump on the tables and lick the plates!

dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 16:07

No neither do I, hate cats that hang around your legs and meow for food, Im not a cat lover, so where there are cats hanging around hubby and I now tend to walk out of the eating places.....

Roomy


Joined: 20/02/2011
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 16:20

Me and the missus are the same but unfortunately there aren't many restaurants in Cyprus that don't have cats unless you opt to eat inside and even then the cats find a way in at times.

poochops


Joined: 09/03/2008
Posts: 64

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 21:03

Interesting replies thanks, as far as us visitors putting our hands in our pockets I'm not really sure that's relevant though. As it happens we bought a sack of food, she didn't have any ticks or visible disorders she was just very underfed and visibly gained weight whilst we were there; a vet would have been pointless as there was nothing else wrong with her. We usually put food in the collections for KAR when were there also, I suppose every little helps. My better half reckons we'll be proper straymagnets when we eventually come to live there as neither of us can see an animal in need of a drink and a dinner, in the meantime though its a difficult one, i can see both sides of the coin but these dogs are there anyway, whether we are there or not, surely a week or so with a full belly and a bit of compassion is better than nothing at all?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 21:21

poochops the basic 'argument' against feeding strays, either temporarily or on an ongoing basis, is that it increases the number of strays a given area can support and thus makes the overall problem of strays worse than it would be if such food were not given. There is a connection between how much strays are fed and now many strays there are in a given area. However there is a big difference between such 'concepts' and having an actual hungry animal outside your door. As I have said before we (my partner and I) have and do feed strays in our area, both as visitors and since we came to live permanently. We did and continue to do so however with a degree of trepidation as well. As I said before its not an easy choice and in my view there is no absolute right or wrong answer. You do what you hope is best and thas all you can do really.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 21:33

@ poochops: You may be interested in this week end's C44 thread about stray dogs also:

▶ [ http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/66843.asp ].



And my answer in the thread mentioned above seems adequate here also: @ Erolz: It was an interesting debate but I think all pros and cons re: stray dogs have been exchanged by now. My point of view didn't change - I find most of the pro-R&N KAR policy arguments pure academic.

This, for me, is final: I don't want stray dogs around my house or in my garden nor do I want to meet them in village streets or on the main road.

In my opinion more talk about this problem is a waste of time and I fully support the measures the Lapta Mayor has taken or has in mind.

Roomy


Joined: 20/02/2011
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
26/06/2011 21:44

Excellent post erolz

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 00:46

old heartless gits..if u dont like it DC then piss of back to holland and i bet Clarissa is one of those who will happily throw food away when a starving animal is at her feet !!!.Whatever the answer... i cannot see how anyone with a bone of moral intergrity can deny a starving animal food.....YOU by denying such an animal is not solving a very huge problem...if you think you are ...then i hope Karma comes and kicks you in the arse big time. Witholding food is not a cure !!!! Lets hope DC that your dog dosent get rounded up for the murder squad !!!

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 00:52

oh and by the way , i personally feel that Cypriots refusal for neturing has a lot to do with the many strays here....not feeding !

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 01:11

If only the so called animal lovers whom are mainly holiday visitors to the island could/would do 1% of what erolz and his partner do for these stray animals...........day in,day out.





Would you leave your adopted kids behind with nothing,no home,no food,no money and go on holiday?

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 01:24

Well said Yorg ..and shall we leave starving children in africa...who dont use coontraceptives...to die ???

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 01:34

just the one O !!!

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 07:55

@ msg 25, moxie: (...) old heartless gits..if u dont like it DC then piss of back to holland (...)

▶ There we go again: the debate is turning primitive. I will not even try to begin to tell you what we (my wife and I) did to help stray animals in the past seven years. But it didn't help one little bit to solve the problem.

So this, for me, is final: I don't want (unhealthy, starving) stray dogs around my house or in my garden nor do I want to meet them in village streets or on the main road.

In my opinion more talk about the stray problem is a waste of time and I fully support the measures the Lapta Mayor has taken or has in mind.

Stray dogs is a third world phenomenon and the government of a modern society should not allow it. Alas, if the Government fails - local authorities need to step in. And that seems finally what happens or is going to happen in TRNC. Good.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 08:51

I am an animal lover as said and will always help a starving animal and yes I have put my hand in my pocket in the past to help



In this instance DC has his point of view and has given reason why is there really any need to drag this thread down with nastiness.



Instead why not come up with alternative solution or an education programme to lessen strays if not what happens the strays continue to rise. It is the animals suffering I think DC sees this as a way to ultimately lessen the ultimate suffering.



If I had healthy dogs that I loved and cared for I may be of the same opinion not wanting such animals around my own ?!!!



Its a tough one

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 09:24

@ msg 31, sienna: I too am an animal lover - anyone can come to our place and check the condition of our two dogs: Dobermann Spot from Holland and the "Cyprus stray" Dixie. But there is only so much one can do. For several reasons two dogs are enough. A post like msg 25 is bang out of order.

Re: stray dogs: something most people (holidaymakers & expats) usually prefer to ignore are the many stray dogs that didn't make the crossing of a road/street. I've seen dozens and dozens dead strays on and along the main road from Alsancak->Girne->Lefkosha->Famagusta. I've seen such accidents happen. Some of the stray dogs must have died a terrible death. Is it included in "animal love" or an "acceptable result/risk" of the KAR "Neuter&Return" policy to let that happen?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 12:16

@ msg 32, second paragraph: No replies?

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 13:02

DC I am not suggesting you are not, in fact not wnating your dogs getting infected from the strays shows that actually - I agree message 25 is out of order

chriswife


Joined: 30/03/2011
Posts: 449

Message Posted:
27/06/2011 23:18

torn in 2



love dogs



parasites, rabies and fleas etc not so much!!!!