The Aftermath of the Turkish Intervention 1974-77

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
20/10/2007 23:16

hi there guys,

one of the best unbiased books on cyprus i have read has to be

Cyprus...War and Adaptation, i managed to find one of the segments of this book titled Turkish Cyprus: Aftermath of the Intervention 1974-77 written by a psychiatrist Vamik Volkan even thou he is a turk gives a informative unbiased insight in to when the war began and was present six months after the turkish community setteled in the south how the turkish cypriots dealt with it (good/bad) also given new land and possesions, he also visits a year later and three years later to see how north cyprus as a republic has come on.

i have provided a link for you all to read it is a very educational read for people who are new to the subject and who already know!!!!



http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/www.cyprus-conflict.net/volkan.html



have a read if you are interested and post me back on what you think!!!!!!

regards

ukturk

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
21/10/2007 01:04

Erkan,

Thought is was interesting and informative-lots there I didn't know of. I also found some of it very sad.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
21/10/2007 15:51

erkan,

excellent read,totally non biased opinion of the conflict,perhaps it should be sent on to the producer of the inside out programme.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
21/10/2007 15:56

hi donna

i knew you would be the first to read and answer my post (dont think anyone else is interested)

i know what you mean very sad what the turks went thru even resorted down to loting after living like sewer rats ok the greeks went thru some hardships but not at the hands of terroerists but by the army (i know what i would prefer) if you are intrested ive got loads more stuff on this stuff you prob have not seen or read like letters from denktash to makarios and more segments written by professor volkan etc etc just post me and ill be happy to send you these via email

warm regards

erkan

p.s quite surprised none of our other forum members took a inetrest in this subject

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
21/10/2007 16:01

thanks paul

long time no hear

i knew you would be interested in this too like i said to donna got loads more stuff on these subject but not sure will post them cos i dont think there are many people interested in it but if you want ill email you with it just post me and ill send you

and you are right should send it but i know what they will say 'thanks but no thanks too true for our liking'

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
21/10/2007 16:07

busy decorating mate thats why ive not been on,also a major de-frag needed on p.c.feel free to email me any stuff you have erkan i find it all very interestng.in years to come we may move out and i think you should have some knowledge of a place were you are going to live.

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
21/10/2007 17:03

UKTURK,



Not true that no-one else is interested.



I went to the link last night, but I thought I needed to be awake to do it justice.



I will view it with interest when I've got 15 mins to spare.



Probable at work 2morrow.



MC

lovelife


Joined: 07/07/2007
Posts: 231

Message Posted:
21/10/2007 19:05

I do not think that it necessarily true that people are not interested, but it is not an article that can be read quickly it takes a while to read and digest what happened. Yes I have read it.



If you have more info that depicts what happened, then provide the links, if people are interested then it is up to them to read it for themselves.



More information gives people a better insight to what happened to the island and its people, and readers can make their own minds up, and if we ever need to write to authorities for whatever reason, then the more knowledge we have the better.

jetl3on


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 56

Message Posted:
21/10/2007 22:20

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/index.html

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
22/10/2007 00:30

hi guys

sorry i did not mean to say dont i meant didit (as in did not)!!!!

lovelife i always provide links to anything i post but with this subject most of the info i have saved on my computer and cant post and the only way is to send via email so just gives us a post and ill gladly pass it on

i could not agree with you more the more info to better the education and in turn to get more of an understanding

regards

livethedream


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
22/10/2007 09:53

V. interesting. Heard a lot from my mother-in-law but good to read a version written without personal feelings to distort things. Thanks

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
22/10/2007 14:43

Hi ukturk



I will definately read this when I have a chance. Keep this sort of stuff coming.



Last week in Cyprus I actually met an English guy who was stationed in Nicosia during the conflict in 1974. It was interesting to hear his account of events. His troop was told to hold Nicosia airport for 24hours. Most of the time he didn't know who was shooting at him, be that his own comrades, Greek or Turkish troops. All he could do was to fire back at those who were shooting at him. He would see bodies fall but had no idea who they were.

Interestingly one of my neighbours in Lapta was stationed in Cyprus in 1959. He told me about some of the scuffles he had with EOKA. Apparently the Brits lost 19 men when he was out there.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
22/10/2007 15:22

hi there ilovecyprus

i hope you enjoyed your winter hols (it is considered winter season now!!!!) even thou it was prob hot L.O.L

the british you are going on about were probabley fighting with the greek eoka terrorists because when there was civil unrest between the greeks and they were fighting among themselves and also taking it out on the turks and british who in turn employed turk cypriots as local police enforcers at this time the british and the turks were working side by side before the turkish army came in, thanks i will defo keep this kind of info coming



p.s i hope you have not got the holiday blues!!!!

regards

Susie


Joined: 06/06/2007
Posts: 87

Message Posted:
22/10/2007 16:27

will read article. i am very interested in these things, but i have to concentrate so need to allow a bit more time... can't do it while answering 'phone and eating a sandwich at desk!

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
22/10/2007 16:48

hi susie

no worries so your not multi tasking then!!!!!! L.O.L

only joking have a read and tell me what you think

like i said i got loads more stuff to share

regards

lovelife


Joined: 07/07/2007
Posts: 231

Message Posted:
22/10/2007 18:00

I was talking to my father-in-law (now 80) and he was telling me as a young man serving in the navy as a radio operator his ship came to Cyprus in the late 50's (possibly 1959)

As he had quite dark hair and skin,and was told not to shave for several days as he was given an assingment to dress in local clothes and was positioned on street corners posing as a 'drunk' armed with a bottle of alcohol(in fact it was cold tea) and a tobacco tin which contained his radio, his assignment was to radio in if he saw any unrest, he often saw groups of EOKA driving around in open trucks with guns in full view.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
23/10/2007 22:55

hi lovelife

what a great story he must have some great stories to tell!!!!!

they are the best people to gather info from see if he has got any more and post them

regards

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
23/10/2007 23:15

hi guys ive managed to get the official views of both governments on the events of july and august 74 you will see how the greek side jumped from independence in 1960 to the events of July 20 skipping the history of enforced turkish cypriot enclaves (1964-74) and the coup against Makarios.

you see the greek cypriots claim that the cyprus problem was caused by the landing of turkish troops in 1974 and if they would withdraw, the problem would be solved. This is a totally wrong the problem began in 1960 and the landing of turkish troops was the consequence not the cause of the problem



even greek cypriot people wanted turkey help In her memoirs greek cypriot MP rina katselli, said on the 16th July 74 Is Makarios alive Is he dead, The Makarios supporters arrested, the EOKA-B supporters freed i did not shed a tear, why should i? Did the stupidity and fanaticism deserve a tear? There are some who beg Turkey to intervene. They prefer the intervention of Turkey." 18th July 74 my God! everyone is frozen with fear the old man who asked for the body of his son was shot on the spot the tortures and executions at the central prison everyone is frozen with horror nothing is sacred to these people, and they call themselves Greeks! we must not keep that name any longer.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
23/10/2007 23:18

ok firstly the view of the greek cypriot government



The Turkish army invaded Cyprus on 20 July 1974.

Turkey announced that the invasion was a "peace-keeping operation" to restore the constitutional order disrupted when a Greek military coup overthrew the Cyprus government. Turkey claimed she was acting in compliance with the terms of the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee.

The invading forces landed off the northern coast of the island around Kyrenia. By the time a cease fire was agreed three days later, Turkish troops held 3% of the territory of Cyprus. Five thousand Greek Cypriots had fled their homes.

Following the invasion, the junta which was in power in Greece at the time, collapsed and Mr Constantine Karamanlis was recalled from self-imposed exile in Paris to form a new government. In Cyprus, Nicos Samson, the man whom the junta had set up as President, surrendered power to the President of the House of Representatives, Mr Glafcos Clerides, pending the return of the island's constitutionally elected President, Archbishop Makarios, who had fled abroad to escape being killed during the coup.

Two unproductive conferences in Geneva followed, the first between Britain, Greece and Turkey and the second with the additional attendance of Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot representatives. Throughout this time Turkish troops steadily expanded their area of control.

On 14 August, despite the fact that talks were still being held in Geneva and just as agreement was about to be reached, the Turkish army mounted a second full-scale offensive, thereby belying Turkey's original pretext that it was invading in order to restore constitutional order, in view of the fact that constitutional order had already been restored.

By the end of the offensive, Turkey increased its hold to include the booming tourist resort of Famagusta and the rich citrus-growing area of Morphou. All in all 37% of the area of Cyprus came under Turkish military occupation, an area Turkey still holds today, despite international condemnation.

The advance halted on a line which was almost precisely the one proposed by Turkey as the demarcation of partition in 1965. This line has come to be known as the Attila line, named after the military codename "Attila" which Turkey gave to the invasion operation, thereby identifying it with the chieftain of the Huns known as "the scourge of God".

As a result, 200.000 Greek Cypriots were made refugees in their own country and 70% of the economic potential of Cyprus came under military occupation. Moreover, thousands of people, including civilians, were killed or ill-treated by the Turkish invaders.

There are still 1.619 Greek Cypriots missing as a result of the Turkish invasion, many of whom were held in Turkish custody. Following the invasion the Turkish government embarked on a policy of bringing in large numbers of Anatolian settlers into the occupied areas, while at the same time systematically expelling the legal Greek Cypriot inhabitants from their homes. Currently about 500 mostly elderly people remain enclaved in the occupied area.

On 1 November 1974, the UN General Assembly unanimously passed the first of countless resolutions calling all states to respect the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and non-alignment of the Republic of Cyprus. It urged the speedy withdrawal of all foreign troops, the continuation of intercommunal talks and that urgent efforts be taken to ensure the safe return of refugees to their homes.



The Turkish invasion and subsequent occupation resulted in the following:

About 37% of the territory of the Republic of Cyprus - i.e. the northern part of the island, where 70% of its natural resources are concentrated - is under Turkish occupation.

200.000 Greek Cypriots - one third of the population - have been displaced from the occupied northern sector where they had constituted 80% of

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
23/10/2007 23:24

ok now the turkish cypriot government view and also TRUE facts and quotes from external sources

In 1971 General Grivas returned to Cyprus to form EOKA-B, which was again committed to making Cyprus a wholly Greek island and annexing it to Greece. In a speech to the Greek Cypriot armed forces (Quoted in "New Cyprus" May 1987), Grivas said. "The Greek forces from Greece have come to Cyprus in order to impose the will of the Greeks of Cyprus upon the Turks. We want ENOSIS but the Turks are against it. We shall impose our will. We are strong and we shall do so."



Greek Invasion

By 15th July 1974 a powerful force of mainland Greek troops had assembled in Cyprus and with their backing the Greek Cypriot National Guard overthrew Makarios and installed Nicos Sampson as "President." On 22nd July Washington Star News reported: "Bodies littered the streets and there were mass burials... People told by Makarios to lay down their guns were shot by the National Guard."

Turkish Cypriots appealed to the Guarantor powers for help, but only Turkey was willing to make any effective response. The Greek newspaper Eleftherotipia published an interview with Nicos Sampson on 26th February 1981 in which he said "Had Turkey not intervened I would not only have proclaimed ENOSIS - I would have annihilated the Turks in Cyprus."



In his book "The Way the Wind Blows" former British Prime Minister, Sir Alec Douglas-Home said "I was convinced that if Archbishop Makarios could not bring himself to treat the Turkish Cypriots as human beings he was inviting the invasion and partition of the island."

US Under-Secretary of State, George Ball, said "Makarios central interest was to block off Turkish intervention so that he and his Greek Cypriots could go on happily massacring Turkish Cypriots"

"Turkish Cypriots, who had suffered from physical attacks since 1963, called on the guarantor powers to prevent a Greek conquest of the island. When Britain did nothing Turkey invaded Cyprus and occupied its northern part." (Daily Telegraph 15.8.96)

Turkey (at that time led by the Social Democrat Prime Minister Bülent Ecevit) sent troops to Cyprus on 20th July 1974.

"On 20th July 1974 Turkey intervened under Article IV of the Treaty of Guarantee" - (UK Foreign & Commonwealth Office doc. CPS/75. Jan., 1987).

"Turkey exercised its right of intervention in accordance with Article IV of the Guarantee Treaty of 1960." (Resolution 573, Standing Committee of the Consultative Assembly of the Council of Europe, 29th July 1974).

The 1976 UK House of Commons Select Committee on Cyprus found (HC 331 1975/76 para.22), that Turkey had proposed joint Anglo-Turkish action under the Treaty of Guarantee. On 14th August 1974 (Daily Telegraph 15th August) Prime Minister Ecevit confirmed that he had indeed traveled to London to urge Anglo-Turkish intervention. However the then Labour Government in Britain refused to take any effective action, even though they had troops and aircraft available in their Sovereign Bases in Cyprus.

They argued that Britain was under no duty to take military action, but Article II provided that Britain would guarantee the state of affairs established by the 1960 Constitution, which it manifestly failed to do. The Select Committee concluded that "Britain had a legal right to intervene, she had a moral obligation to intervene. She did not intervene for reasons which the (Labour) Government refuses to give."

During the fighting with Turkish troops between 20th July and 16th August 1974 many Greek Cypriots died in combat. So far as possible their bodies were recovered and identified by Turkish forces. There were very few deaths of Greek Cypriots civilians.



The balance of probabilities is therefore that of those Greek Cypriots still listed as missing most were killed during the Sampson coup of 15th - 20th July 1974, and that others died in combat. Some are

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
23/10/2007 23:35

now guys after you have read both views on the problem of cyprus what one sounds like sense and what one is patchy made up no back up from external sources!!!

again i have a copy of a article on 28th February 1976 in the greek cypriot press Father Papatsestos said: "It is a rather hard thing to say, but it is true that the Turkish intervention saved us from a merciless internecine war. The Sampson regime had prepared a list of all Makarios supporters, and they would have slaughtered them all." Many of the people saved by Turkey are members of the present Greek Cypriot leadership

and this is coming from one of the biggest priests in the greek cpriot church and he has no reason to lie does he!!!!

sorry about the long posts i find these quotes very educational for people who want to learn of the history of cyprus and the problem

post me and tell me what you think

regards

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
23/10/2007 23:43

hi again

before anyone asks i got these views direct from the horse mouth (as they say)

the greek view From the Republic of Cyprus Public Information Office



and the turkish view From the Government of Turkeys Foreign Ministry

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
23/10/2007 23:52

best ever erkan,totally rivetting stuff,be careful of r.s.i. though,thanks for the photos mate.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 00:01

thanks mate

you read that fast that took me best part of a day to edit from originals and then to write on word then paste it on to the forum

your right i should change my profile job from secret service they mite think im a spy !!!!

no worries on the photos

regards

erkan

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 00:09

Erkan as usual you have excelled yourself. Fully informative. Both copied and pasted-my ammunition.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 00:09

where do you find the time to write as you do,have you thought of putting it all together and writing a book or am i insulting you by saying that as you have already written many best sellers and ukturk is just a pseudonim for james herbert,

keep writing mate,

paul.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 00:27

hi guys

thanks for your comments

donna i know where you going with this info to that english bloke who thinks he knows it all and is a greek cypriot supporter on that forum you told me about hit them hard with it please post me a link once you have posted it please

paul i sit infront of computers read and type all day long at work the boss cant say nothing cos i am the boss l.o.l. you know something i was actually thinking of putting a book together but would not know how to go about it

james herbert i wish more like j.r hartley (the yellow pages advert from years ago!!!) L.O.L

lovelife


Joined: 07/07/2007
Posts: 231

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 13:36

Ukturk



Very informative and if Turkey was recognized under the treaty of Guarantee that it intervened to save the TC people, why are the embargoes still in place? is it because Turkey left military there?



I will ask my father in law if he has anymore stories to tell me as you say it is interesting to hear from people who lived it.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 14:04

Hi Erkan,

I'll use the info. as and when but might you post them onto the other forums?



I should imagine the person you referred to would attempt to discredit the TC version of events! I'm not sure he's English, could be British origin but I suspect (could be wrong) he has some familial link to GCs.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 15:32

hi there all

lovelife these embargoes imposed on north cyprus dont have the authority of any UN Security Council Resolution under Article 41 of the UN Charter. but due to the confusing UN Resolution 186, passed on 4 March 1964, the Greek Cypriots have been able to legitimise their status as the sole recognised authority on the island of Cyprus and deny Turkish Cypriots their legal, political and basic human rights.

with the greeks always lobbying they have made sure the embargoes they have applied to North Cyprus is adhered worldwide and the impact is as comprehensive as any UN sanctioned embargo.



below lovelife i have provided a link to my other subject thread i started on which you might have not noticed have a read on it this is also very educational

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/show-message.asp?messageID=718



regards to you all who have taken an intrest in this subject

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 17:42

Thanks Erkan

Absolutely informative as ever. Thanks



dy1259, I presume you are referring to the infamous mm. I believe he is of Irish descent. Psychologically, I think the unification of Cyprus represents the unification of southern and Northern Ireland to him.

Personally I wouldn't bother arguing with him. He is never going to change his mind and in any case he is no match for Erolz

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 17:52

ILC. LOL. the Ireland reference. Thing is we can't leave it all to Erolz though I agree he's doing a brilliant job all by himself. It's nice to know that people out there agree with you and don't believe the perennial lies/misinformation from GCs.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 18:13

Hi dy1259

Just to add to my post. This is a real guess but I think mm holds the English responsible for Ireland and see's the English as messing up Cyprus. Could be very wrong of course.



Yes, you are right, the more people who have erolz's knowledge the more the TC's can fight their cause and make people aware of the true situation.

Personally though I think everyone on that forum should just ignore mm, that way he has noone to argue with.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 18:44

Hi ILC, you are so right about ignoring the person... if everyone did it or if I thought he would then just go away but he won't. People like him need to be answered/argued against thus exposing their pro GCyp. fabrication and propaganda. For too long now the international community has heard/listened to only one side, the GCs. TCs/expats armed with knowledge/facts are then able, as you say, to make everyone aware of the truth. Besides, I had such fun with the gender thingy (I know not a good example of intelligent debate or even to do with Cyprus). LOL.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 19:23

hi d..... and ilc (l.o.l) had you worried there donna

yes mm thats the idiot i was going on about on the other forum im just waiting for him to post something totaley inaccurate then im goin to blast him with some of the info i know and belive you me when i give him some hard true facts he wont know how to respond not alone be idotic

donna i must say i totaley loved your comments towards him and this other pathetic excuse of a man scarmanga who does he think he is something out of a james bond movie well not even james bond can help him

http://trnc4real.proboards106.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1191517753



i love cyprus have a look at this see how donna cuts them down to size i did not think she was like that L.O.L (yes i do when we first posted on turkey and north cyprus religion situation)

take care

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 19:30

Hi E......., oh you're not worried are you!!LOL!



Ah yes, Erkan, our first cyber introduction-the religious situation. Don't get me started on that one again! Long live ATATURK (and no headscarves). LOL. What's happened to Alasatian?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 19:45

yeah, that scara is a pain in the butt too

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
24/10/2007 22:02

j.r. hartley was that the advert were the old man came into a shop and asked for a book by j.r. hartley and he was actually the author.i would have you down as more of a tollkien (excuse the spelling) get the book written and you may make more money then j.r. ewin.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
25/10/2007 00:02

hi guys

ok donna i wont go in to that again were friends now and god bless the father of the turks dont know if you know the 29th of this month is cumhuriyet bayram (independance day) when Ataturk freed turkey from the greeks if it was not for him us turks would be speaking greek, ahh alasatain i think he was like zorro come in done his job and rode of in to the sunset on his horse

L.O.L

paul yeah you are right he was the guy who asked for his own book so you think im more of a j r tolkien what you saying im the lord of the ring i hope your not being rude there (what i said about me knowing a anil resturant)

L.O.L

ilc talking about anil (look at great name for a supermarket) yeah that scaramanga is one big one

regards

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
25/10/2007 01:16

hi again guys

below ive provided a link to the bbc news website on a feature called on this day this link is the 30th july 1974 it provides a bit of background to that month but also there are people giving their eye witness accounts into that month a few turks stories a few more greek stories (as usual) and some stories from british army soldiers take a look tell me what you think



http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/witness/july/20/newsid_3880000/3880605.stm

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
25/10/2007 02:14

It confirms what I thought: The TCs feel safer/happier without the GCs and the GCs feel safer/happier without the TCs therefore continued partition/two states Cyprus is the best solution.



Noted the 'balance' weighed more towards the GCs-what's new?

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
25/10/2007 21:18

Michael Stephen, an international lawyer, former Tory MP wrote the following balanced account on Cyprus (it is sympathetic to TCs):

It is a long read but worth it.



Written evidence submitted by Michael Stephen[107]

WHY IS CYPRUS DIVIDED?



It is necessary to know what happened in Cyprus between the foundation of the Republic in 1960 and the Turkish intervention in 1974, not for historical interest but in order to determine whether the political status of the Greek Cypriot Administration today, and its acceptance by the world is justified. If the Turkish Cypriots had simply withdrawn from the institutions of the Republic in 1964 with no reasonable excuse, and if the Turkish army had invaded in 1974 without any legal right or humanitarian justification, then perhaps the world would be right to treat the Greek Cypriot Administration as if it were the Government of Cyprus. The truth of the matter is however very different.





This is an important question, because the ability of the Greek Cypriot Administration to enforce an embargo on Turkish Cypriot trade, sport, and communications derives from their acceptance by other countries and institutions as if they were the lawful government of all Cyprus.





The former British Prime Minister, Sir Alec Douglas-Home said in his memoirs[108] he had been convinced that if the Greek Cypriots could not treat the Turkish Cypriots as human beings they were inviting the invasion and partition of the island.





The American Under-Secretary of State, George Ball, said in his own memoirs[109], that the central interest of the Greek Cypriot leader, Makarios, "was to block off Turkish intervention so that he and his Greek Cypriots could go on happily massacring Turkish Cypriots. Obviously we would never permit that." The fact is however that neither the US, the UK, the UN, nor anyone, other than Turkey ever took effective action to prevent it.





The most remarkable feature of the Cyprus question is the extent to which the Greek Cypriots have been able to repudiate solemn international agreements[110] and violate the human rights of the Turkish Cypriots on a massive scale and yet by a quite astonishing feat of public relations, have secured for themselves acceptance as the government of all Cyprus and have persuaded the world that they, and not the Turkish Cypriots, are the injured party. The consequence of this is that they have been able to extract one-sided resolutions from the United Nations and other international organisations, and have been able to secure court judgments which have been immensely damaging to the Turkish Cypriots and have placed the Turkish Cypriots under a crippling embargo on their international trade and communications.





For more than 40 years the Turkish Cypriots and their government have been faced with one of the hardest tasks in the whole range of international affairs—how to get the world to change its mind after it has got hold of the wrong end of the stick and clung to it year after year.





The Greek Cypriots claim that the Cyprus problem was caused by the landing of Turkish troops in 1974 and that if only they would withdraw, the problem would be solved. This is a serious misconception, for the landing of Turkish troops was the consequence, not the cause, of the problem. Moreover, there were in fact two military actions in 1974; the first was by Greece and the Greek Cypriots, which caused the second by Turkey.





In the view of Greek Cypriot journalist, Aleccos Constantinides[111] the Greek Cypriot political parties DIKO and EDEK "are acting as if the Cyprus problem began and ended in 1974. They refrain from talking about the previous coups. The first coup was not in 1974, but only a few years after we had attained our independence (in 1960). Had it not been for the first coup there would not have been the 1974 coup."





Another Gree

lovelife


Joined: 07/07/2007
Posts: 231

Message Posted:
25/10/2007 21:32

Thanks Ukturk, have read the links and they are interesting.



I have just read Franks diary (of Frank and Joan) dated the 5th Oct he noted that a poll reported in the Cyprus Times, was done between the GC and TC and the result was it is recognized that both cultures have nothing in common except they share the same island and the same sunshine. The result also revealed that both sides have said that it would be better to have 2 separate states than attempt to have one unified one.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
26/10/2007 04:16

hi there

no probs lovelife glad you enjoyed it

good post donna ive read this before good read not a lot of people get to hear or read these kind of quotes from external sources only from the propaganda machine operated by the greeks

i must say lovelife and ive got to be honest cyprus times dont know what they are on about, other than not sharing the same religion they have quite a lot in common the very older generations of gc's and tc's both speak greek and turkish i know my grandad and gran on my dads side spoke greek, their folk lore dancing very similar, the food near enough the same (a lot of the dishes greeks stole from the turks) i.e doner and shish kebab this was a turkish food

you ask a greek what doner means they would not be able to tell you it means to turn round and shish translated means skewer and the list can go on

a lot of the words and meanings are the same, their drinks the same turks have raki the greeks have ouzo

the only thing that split these two culters was the greeks from the mainland interfered with the gc's minds and promoted the gc's to act more like their hellanic brothers and sisters from greece and to obtain that was via enosis

which did not fully work and now the gc's are puppets to greece

and yes its true it would be better for all concered that their are two seperate states the tc's and the gc's communities want this aswell as the tc's government but the gc's government dont want this they want unification with the greeks wanting a majority of the powers and the turks will be a minority

this will never happen as long as the motherland (turkey) has a say in the matter

long live K.K.T.C and TURKEY

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
26/10/2007 14:51

Despite TCs/GCs having a lot in common culturally, I agree with Erkan, that reunification is not the way to go in solving the Cyprus problem. Based on their past and current against the TCs, it is impossible to trust the GCs, ever. It is better to keep Cyprus partitioned (two separate States).



I can understand and speak a little Greek Cypriot-come to think of it, learnt it through osmosis when I was a little girl (in England!). Wow, TCs must beware of osmosis in Cyprus.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
26/10/2007 16:30

actions

'Based on their past and current ^ against the TCs, it is impossible to trust the GCs, ever.'

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
26/10/2007 17:23

yes super catwoman i agree

and whoever does not agree with this must have got a screw loose

how can we trust the gc government with all their lies they cant even say what is done is done lets move forward they still point fingers and complain about everything n cyprus do they cant even fart without the greeks complaing about it and how can we trust when they are puppets to greece who want cyprus for greece

ok some people can say north cyprus is puppets to turkey but thats not the case north cyprus will always be indebited to the motherland for the help to liberate us from the greeks and for the financial help due to these embargos

and gıvıng n cyprus a hand to stand on our theır own two feet as a republic state and the biggest help the 30000 soldiers to keep the greeks at bay turkey have never said they want n cyprus as their own just it being a republic state of turkey

had my say now feel much better l.o.l

livethedream


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
26/10/2007 17:39

My husband's father and uncle fought against the GCs during this time - alone and fighting in a field, lots of his friends, family were killed. His family grew up in Baf (Paphos) and his mother speaks a little greek still, but hates them with a vengeance, and certainly doesn't trust them.



Think there's too much water under the bridge to ever reunite the island.



She also owns land in Baf, but doesn't hold out much hope of ever getting any compensation!

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
27/10/2007 16:14

Hi Guys



I e-mailed some TC's I know to sign the Orams petition. These are people who live on the island and benefit from the property trade. As yet they have not signed the petition. They may have done so anonymously, or could be busy and have not done so yet, but I suspect this not to be the issue. I have been asking myself why have they not signed. I have not asked them as to why but I would be interested to know your thoughts as to why they may not?

Two thoughts have crossed my mind. One is that they see no issue, even if the orams lose they wont lose their property in Cyprus (although it is the uk home which is at stake).

My second thoughts have been stired by comments made by namus who hasn't remarked on this site for a while. I have been wondering if there is a large number of TC's who would like to see the orams lose their land. They may be happy to take the Brits money, rationalised by the fact that they have had no choice but to sell their land in order to survive and prosper. Ultimately their patronage is with the GC's and their goal is to reunite with the South side and move away from Turkey.



Sorry, I know this is a controversial posting and likley to stir ones blood. It has been nagging away at me.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
27/10/2007 17:18

hi mate

you better be sorry l.o.l

i noticed that too the only thing i can think off is that they prob thought there is no point in signing there own petition

sorry to say mate you are mistaken they just recently had a court rulling in britain that they were not eligable to loose there house in the u.k

also theres not one turkish cypriot who want the orams to loose this case everbody (turk cypriot) i have spoken to about this feel sorry and are very angry how the orams have been made scape goat in this situation

the only time when or if turk cypriots are thinking to rip people off is when they have land or property and there is no deeds to it

there is no way on this earth they feel patronage towards the gc's trust me on this after most turk cypriots lost their homes and land to gc's and 99% turkish cypriots dont want to reunite with the south their actual goal is to have north cyprus as a seperate republic state of turkey and they never want to move away from turkey they might complain about their are too many mainland turks (especially the younger generation) but not one turkish cypriot can forget they are indebited to turkey in helping liberate them from the greeks

i hope this helps you clear your mind on this mate



p.s dont worry mate my blood did not stir cos i know you and you are just simply asking

regards

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
27/10/2007 17:23

Thanks Erkan. Very reassuring comments. Sorry to raise it

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 00:50

hi there guys

i read today about an article urging british mps to lift the embargoes on turkish cypriots which appeared in parliamentary brief a publication on British political affairs

Its written by barrister and former Conservative mp michael stephen, he claims its a case of “Christian fundamentalism-v-moderate Islam” and he urges support for the moderate muslims of cyprus

Mr stephen said that the driving force behind the greek cypriot actions against turkish cypriots was and still is the greek orthodox church, which, dreams of hellenising cyprus and annexing it to greece

he also wrote quote “Today the Greek Cypriot ‘Government of Cyprus’ controls all the Cyprus embassies and prevents the Turkish Cypriots trading directly with the world; they prevent direct flights to airports in the north of Cyprus. They exclude the Turkish Cypriot voice from the councils of the world, (including the UK political party conferences). They will not allow Turkish Cypriot teams to participate in international sport; they try to prevent access by the Turkish Cypriots to international funding and expertise to protect the heritage and environment; they complain that churches in the north are in disrepair whilst bulldozing mosques and Muslim shrines in the south, and they are trying to prevent European recognition of Turkish Cypriot universities within the Bologna process.”

he also called on the new pm to go for the full inclusion of turkish cypriot universities in the bologna process (uni's & qualifications to be reconized) and for the right of turkish cypriot mps to speak in the european parliament whenever cyprus is considered

this guy makes sense even an ex conservative politician knows and is spreading the word how greece & south cyprus are and how they treat north cyprus and its people plus he is no normal ex mp he also wrote the book the cyprus question and is a international lawyer is also a member of the royal institute of international affairs

its good to see slowly but surely everyone from politicians to postmen are starting to point the finger of blame towards south cyprus and the greeks and not at turkey and north cyprus



regards

erkan aka ukturk aka superman (sorry donna i had to) l.o.l

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 01:24

Erkan. You forgot one:

erkan aka ukturk aka superman aka superhero. Who are you??????



My public hero is Ataturk. But now another guy is emerging on the scene (sorry Erkan. LOL), namely Michael Stephan. He really is pushing forward the TC cause and their human rights. Respect to him.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 01:40

yeah sorry du aka donna aka catwoman aka superhero (nearly got you again) l.o.l

yeah you are right michael stephen knows his stuff 'respect to him' (is that the south london coming out of you) you defo must be from brixton,streatham or lewisham L.O.L

its ok i forgive you about the whole public hero thing l.o.l (not me)

you can call me erk the uk super turk from now on (got a good ring to it dont you think) L.O.L

regards

E.U.S.T

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 01:51

Aka EUST,

LOL. I looked at 'du' and thought, 'what's that?'. I know, I know. Shh.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 01:55

you guys who want to find out about a lot of inpartial true straight to the point facts on cyprusyou have to get and read michael stephen's book the cyprus question like dy1259 said (sorry donna some people dont know your name)

this bloke is becoming a new public figure fighting for the truth

regards

E.U.S.T

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 11:34

I have just bought the book Erkan. I look forward to reading it

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 11:55

Hi Erkan and Donna



You want to also follow Lord Marginess. He constantly hassles the government about the plight of the TC's.



Below is a copy of the thread I sent some while back:



Good old Lord Marginess. He doesn't miss an opportunity in the House of Lords to push the Turkish Cypriot cause. It is interesting that the UK government is funding projects on behalf of TC's. Copy and post the web code to see the replies to his letters.







Written Answers - House of Lords: Cyprus: British Council (11 Jul 2007)



http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2007-07-11a.219.6&s=speaker%3A10406#g219.7



Lord Maginnis of Drumglass: asked Her Majesty's Government: To what



extent the British Council has assisted and financially supported (a)



education; (b) the arts; (c) environmental or scientific programmes;



and (d) community initiatives in (i) the Republic of Cyprus, and (ii)



Northern Cyprus in each of the three years since 24 April 2004.







Written Answers - House of Lords: Cyprus: British Council (11 Jul 2007)



http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2007-07-11a.220.1&s=speaker%3A10406#g220.2



Lord Maginnis of Drumglass: asked Her Majesty's Government: To what



extent the British Council has supported visits to the United Kingdom



by those involved in (a) the arts; (b) sport; (c) educational



advancement; and (d) medical research in Northern Cyprus in each of the



three years since 24 April 2004.







Written Answers - House of Lords: Cyprus: British Council (11 Jul 2007)



http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2007-07-11a.220.4&s=speaker%3A10406#g220.5



Lord Maginnis of Drumglass: asked Her Majesty's Government: To what



extent the British Council has assisted practically or financially in



the teaching of English in (a) primary, and (b) secondary schools in



Northern Cyprus during each of the three years since 24 April 2004.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 12:15

hi mark

you did well to get the book mate quite hard to get hold off,

anyway what a book you wont be able to put it down until you have fully read it.

im gonna look at these threads asap and will post back when i have read them thanks for the post mate

regards

erkan

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 12:27

Hi Erkan



Got it from Amazon. They had two copies

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 12:31

By the way Erkan if you join 'theyworkforyou' you can get all of Lord Marginisis posts. He normally brings up the NC issue in Parliament once every two weeks or so

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
02/11/2007 12:50

Hi ILC, thank you for the links. Another potential public hero. My hero book's expanding (no, sorry Superhero aka Erkan, not you).

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
06/11/2007 10:41

hi mark

thanks for the links very intresting it just shows you dont it we are not alone an there are some important people that are following this with a close eye

how you getting on with that book the cyprus problem its a good read dont you think

donna thats ok i forgive you only this time thou l.o.l ive got another great book i can reconmend to you guys but ill post it later tonight because im at work and not got the book by my side

take care all

erkan

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
06/11/2007 19:40

I know you don't mind, Erkan. You are hero on this board.



Am interested in the book you mentioned.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
06/11/2007 20:08

me too if you get chance erkan.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
07/11/2007 00:06

hi guys

donna flatery will get you everywhere!!! L.O.L

the book i was talking about is ATATURK by andrew mango isbn no 9780719565922 really good book if you want to learn about the father of the turks in a unbiased view and been rated highly by the sunday times and the new statesman i got it in turkeu but im sure you can get it from your local book shop or of the net

regards to you all

erkan

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
07/11/2007 00:43

LOL. Do a search for the book on Amazon and I get: Nigella Express, Guinness Book of Records and 'Snakehead' ???!!!! I'm looking for, even, a tenuous connection-nope can't see it. Erkan, Ataturk didn't happen to wear a hat in the shape of a snake by any chance?



I'll keep searching.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
07/11/2007 00:55

I've ordered it. Looking forward to reading it.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
07/11/2007 23:53

hi donna

if you have oredered the book with ataturk wearing a hat i n the shape of a snake you have bought the wrong book sorry to say but do please post me how that books turns out L.O.L

regards

uk hero turk l.o.l



p.s im about half way through it is a hard book to read but a good read never the less, give me a post when u get it and start to read it take care

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
08/11/2007 00:06

I'm reading Love and Death at the moment. I ordered and paid for a Turkish version online from Pandora, everything was in Turkish, some words unfamiliar, try to phone my mum to ask her what they mean and line's engaged-typical. Went ahead anyway. Is Pandora a reputable company? Or am I going to get cleaned out??!!! LOL.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
08/11/2007 00:15

hi donna

no pandora is a good company no worries there the isbn number i gave is from the english version a bit more easy to understand than the turkish one

ill take a look at the website for you to see what it means

take care

oh yes love and death the story of two people who fall in love set in troubled cyprus how you getting on with it

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
08/11/2007 00:44

Just started reading it (Love and Death in Cyprus)-like it so far. First time EVER I'm reading something about TCs with TC characters-I like that. I keep thinking: the parents would have been my grandparents age and the little girl would have been about my mum's age-they were all in Cyprus then. I may begin to have a deeper understanding of why my parents/grandparents left Cyprus. I'll let you know what I think once finished, I won't let on about the plot etc.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
08/11/2007 00:54

donna

found the link is it this book you ordered

http://www.pandora.com.tr/urun.asp?id=105557

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
08/11/2007 01:08

Erkan, the link takes me to a radio station!!

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
08/11/2007 10:44

hi donna

sorry dont know what happened try this link

http://www.pandora.com.tr/urun.asp?id=105557

take care

erkan

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
08/11/2007 10:59

hi donna

something wrong i think with the link the best way go to their website http://www.pandora.com.tr on the main page click on the top ıcon that reads türkçe once on that page click on the icon on the right ÇOK SATAN 100 KİTAP once you have clicked on this you will come to a page with a option on the top right Önceki sayfalara dön click on this then the 3rd option down it writes ataturk then this will bring you out to the book i am going on about

good luck

erkan

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
08/11/2007 11:22

sorry donna dont click on the link just type it it the adress bar pandora.com.tr

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
08/11/2007 13:52

Thanks Erkan. I ordered from that online store yesterday, so I'll just hope it gets to me before xmas/new year - it's a present for my mum.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
08/11/2007 14:30

no worries donna

normally will take around 4 weeks to get to you

good thinking buy her the book for xmas then once she has read it you take it of her!!!

smart plan

take care

erkan

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
08/11/2007 14:53

I just wish I could have had it signed by Harry Blackley. like I've had done with my English copy. I wouldn't be able read the Turkish version, I'd spend all my time using a bi-lingual dictionary-good for improving my Turkish I know but I prefer uninterrupted reading. I also bought one from Harry B. for a friend, birthday present. Perhaps I should send copies to a few Hollywood directors???

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
08/11/2007 16:09

well there was a rumor that 20th century fox bought the rights to produce a film about ataturk with george clonney to star as the father of the turks but he was supposed to have recived death threats (i wonder from who) so he actually pulled out of the casting and i think the film has been shelved for the time being what a shame i would love to see a film about him i dont see why they should not do a film about this great man they have done films about hitler-mussolini-troy-alexander the great etc etc

what about it donna should we start a petetion to fox about doing the film L.O.L

take care

erkan

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
08/11/2007 16:50

George Clooney..does he have blue eyes? I'd love to see a film about Ataturk-what a pity it hasn't happened yet. Petition...LOL.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
09/11/2007 23:52

hi their guys

just a quick post

tomorrow nov 10th Mustafa Kemal Ataturk passed away 69 years ago. he will be commemorated in turkey, cyprus and all turkish diplomatic representations abroard.

he will be remebered for bringing turkey into a modern secular socitety, rebuilt the country from the crippling ottorman empire defended turkey from the greeks-russians-british empire and many more

so long live his memory and rest in peace Father of the Turks

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
11/11/2007 18:03

are his achievements still taught in the local schools erkan.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
11/11/2007 21:25

I learned about Ataturk from my parents (having been educated in England). My children know about Ataturk from me and I think this is common for many, if not all TC offspring!!

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
11/11/2007 22:01

Mustafa kemal ataturk,

What a guy just been reading up on him apparenteley he commanded the turkish counter attack against the anzacs,largely due to him and his forces he repelled the attacks and stopped the enemy landing forces.Kemal told his troops"i dont order you to fight i order you to die,in the time it takes us to die other troops and commanders can come take our places"

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
11/11/2007 22:11

hi dodger

everything about the man is taught still to this day in schools, even before the kids go in to school in the morning they all line up and they sing the national anthem, what this man achevied in his term a whole generation of leaders could not acheive in a lifetime

regards

erkan

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
11/11/2007 22:58

hi guys

managed to find this on the net its the speech given by makarios to the un security council a few days later after the coup in south cyprus by the greek junta led by samson (a trully wicked man) dictated by greece, and this speech was a day before the turkey sent their army to cyprus to help the turkish cypriots and also the greek cypriots because by getting rid of the greek junta they stoped many greek cypriots in getting killed by the greeks by civil fighting

even he reconizes this and even says the greeks invaded cyprus

he was no better remember he changed the cyprus constitution to give the turkish cypriots no rights at all in a plan called the 13 points (if you dont know bout 13 points will be glad to explain)

have a read see what he says about the whole situation (a bit long thou)



President Makarios:

I would like at the outset to express my warmest thanks to the members of the Security Council for the keen interest they have shown in the critical situation created in Cyprus after the coup, which was organised by the military regime of Greece and was put into effect by the Greek officers serving in and commanding the Cyprus National Guard. I am particularly grateful that the Security Council has agreed to postpone its meeting until my arrival here to give me the opportunity of addressing it on the recent dramatic events in Cyprus.



What has been happening in Cyprus since last Monday morning is a real tragedy. The military regime of Greece has callously violated the independence of Cyprus. Without trace of respect for the democratic rights of the Cypriot people, without trace of respect for the independence and sovereignty of the Republic of Cyprus, the Greek junta has extended its dictatorship to Cyprus. It is indeed a fact that for some time now their intention was becoming obvious. The people of Cyprus had for a long time feeling that a coup by the Greek junta was brewing, and this feeling became more intense during the recent weeks when the terrorist organisation 'EOKA B', directed from Athens, had renewed its wave of violence.



I knew all along that the illegal organisation had its roots and supply resources in Athens. I became aware that the Greek officers staffing and commanding the National Guard were recruiting members for that organisation, and they supported it in various ways to the point of access to the munition supply stores of the National Guard. In the camps of the National Guard, the Greek officers were conducting open propaganda in favour of that illegal organisation and turned the National Guard from an organ of the state into an instrument of subversion. Whenever, from time to time, I complained to Athens about unbecoming conduct by Greek officers of the National Guard, the reply was that if I had concrete evidence in proof thereof those found guilty would be recalled. From the whole tenor of their attitude, I received the unmistakable impression that their standard response was a pretence of innocence. A few days ago documents came into the hands of the Cyprus police clearly proving that 'EOKA B' was an appendage of the Athens regime.

Funds were being remitted from Athens for the upkeep of this organisation and detailed directives regarding its actions were also given to it. I then found it necessary myself to address a letter to the President of the Greek regime, General Gizikis, asking him to give orders for the cessation of the violence and bloodshed by 'EOKA B' and for its dissolution. I also requested him to recall the Greek officers serving with the National Guard, adding that my intention was to reduce the numerical strength of this force and to turn it into an organ of the Cyprus State. I was waiting for a reply. My impression was that the Athens regime did not favour the reduction of the force, much less the withdrawal of the Greek officers.



The Greek Ambassador in

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
12/11/2007 10:16

He achieved so much and he was only 57 when he died.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
09/12/2007 03:09

Bump it up.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
17/12/2007 14:28

hi guys

i found a report in a turkish paper which was published today and written by respected turkish jounalist who lives and works in europe on the history of cyprus from 1960 to 1974 this report is unbiased and informative

have a read guys and tell me what you think

regards to all



Cyprus gained her sovereign independence by virtue of a constitution and three treaties -- the Treaty of Guarantee, the Treaty of Alliance and the Treaty of Establishment, all of which came into force on the same day -- Aug. 16, 1960. They were interrelated so that, for example, the 48 “basic articles” of the Constitution were incorporated into the Treaty of Guarantee while the two Treaties of Guarantee and Alliance were in turn mentioned to “have constitutional force” in Article 181 of the constitution. The third treaty, the Treaty of Establishment, makes it clear that the boundaries of the Republic of Cyprus do not coincide with those of the island, in that Britain retains absolute sovereignty over two enclaves, totaling 99 square miles which contain the military bases of Ağrotur (Akrotiri) and Dikelya (Dhekelia). Britain is also given certain military rights (such as exclusive control of the Nicosia airport in the event of an emergency) on the territory of the republic. The constitution was drawn up explicitly in terms of the two people -- and was referred to subsequently by the Turkish Cypriots as a functional federation, though that expression does not actually appear. The official languages were Greek and Turkish. The Greek and Turkish flags could be flown without any restrictions, though there was also to be a national flag. The Greek and Turkish national holidays were to be observed. The country was defined as “an independent and sovereign republic with a presidential regime, the president being Greek and the vice president being Turkish elected by the Greek and Turkish communities of Cyprus respectively.” There were 10 ministers, seven chosen by the president and three by the vice president (in practice a Turkish Cypriot was appointed to defense). Decisions in the Council of Ministers were to be taken by absolute majority, except that either the president or the vice president had an absolute veto over decisions relating to foreign affairs, defense or internal security and a delaying one on other matters.

The legislative system was unicameral. The House of Representatives had 50 members: 35 Greek and 15 Turkish. This ratio was unilaterally changed to 56 Greek and 24 Turkish by Greek Cypriots without the consent of Turkish Cypriots during the “Dark Era,” namely between the years 1963-1974. According to Article 78(2), “any law imposing duties or taxes shall require a simple majority of the representatives elected by the Greek and Turkish communities respectively taking part in the vote.” This provision also applied to any change in the electoral law and the adoption of any law relating to the municipalities. This last question baffled the constitution makers. In five of the towns, separate Greek and Turkish municipalities had emerged as a consequence of the communal confrontations of 1958 and had been recognized by the British. They would now be officially established, thereby becoming the only organ of the constitution based on the idea of territorial separation, but for only four years during which the president and the vice president were supposed to decide between them whether they were to continue.



Legislation on other subjects was to take place by simple majority but again the president and the vice president had the same right of veto -- absolute on foreign affairs, defense and internal security, delaying on other matters -- as in the Council of Ministers. Outside the House of Representatives there were to be elected two communal chambers, one Greek, the other Turkish, which were given separate functions not entrusted

simma



Joined: 03/02/2008
Posts: 346

Message Posted:
07/02/2008 00:31

hi ukturk, i'm quite new to the chat but have you read the cyprus conspiricy by brendan omaily and ian craig. this book will blow your head off, it goes deep into the political involvement of uk and usa.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
07/02/2008 10:54

hi simma

yeah i have read most of it, to a person who is new to the problems you are quite right its a eye opener,but these problems have been going around with the world since day dot!!! i have been reading these kind of books for many years from cyprus and turkey issues to freemasonary and history of new world order dated as far back as knights of the round table and the templars they are all linked one way or the other

but to tell you the truth i dont want to go on about it on this forum becasue some people dont unerstand or dont want to because they live their normal 9-5 life and are affraid of change!!!!, i have already mentioned a few things on european politics which caused unrest among some of the posters, so im not going to bother in the future, people would rather learn about wheres the best fish and chip shop or where they do a good english breakfast or where is the best place to retire the north or the south or advertising for hair models and the list goes on and on

and in my eyes thats not what this forum is about, its supposed to be about learning about cyprus it might be history-religion-poltics or general day life and helping each other with meaningful questions and answers and also some light hearted threads and i think some people have lost sight of that a bit!!!!!!!

sorry to bang on a bit, but everyday i look at some of the threads on the fourm and think to myself is it even worth posting on here anymore!!!!!

regards

ukturk



p.s its good you have taken a interest in what goes on underneath the covers concerning cyprus my homeland i love and the many others who do to and you are not just asking about the price of fags!!!!! LOL LOL

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
07/02/2008 11:29

Hi UKTurk



I am learning more and more. It's what I call, "Social Engineering", which breeds distrust, resentment and an apartheid system which was bound for failure - it also showed total lack of vision in what makes a "nationhood". This is not too dissimilar to what the Annan Plan is considering - we don't seem to learn any lessons from history - look at the map that was drawn up for eastern Europe - now falling apart. Actually, why look that far, it's the same kind of Social Engineering which is happening in the UK - also doomed to failure!



I suspect that Ankara and the TRNC understand this!!



Regards

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
07/02/2008 11:40

hi milou

i agree with you, but i guess there will be people on this forum that might think what the hell are we going on about!!!!! they will say such things does not go on in todays world but they are sadly mistaken, all it takes is some self teaching and understanding and at the end of the day even thou politics rule the world the media propaganda plays a big role in todays society and as soon as the world population realises this, thats when we can have actual real world peace not the garbage the politicans and governments babble on about!!!!

regards

ukturk

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
07/02/2008 13:31

Hi Erkan

Very intersting compilation for the benefit of people who do not know the history of what reall happened in Cyprus.

I do know all these as I have lived through all this until 1977.

Glad some of the members are taking the time to read and broaden their knowledge.

Well done.

Biker

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
07/02/2008 13:59

hi biker

thanks you for your kind words, and you are right its good some the expats who live in our homeland take the time to read about what our famlies had to go through even thou it would be nice if more people would take a interest

i have a few other post that i started if you would like to take a look

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/718.asp

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/957.asp

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/958.asp (story of ataturk)

regards

ukturk

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
07/02/2008 14:44

UKTurk



Ref your post 1192 - many of us have learned much through your posts on past and present political and historical facts and many people who might not be interested in this subject have taken the trouble to read it and I am sure, like me, have learnt a lot and many people on this forum feel passionate about your country and feel part of that struggle.

When Keith and I bought our property in the TRNC, little did we know that we would have the privilege of retiring to a country where a people are still struggling for their freedom - it's a great feeling!!



Also, don't forget that many Greek Cypriots will be reading these posts which is so important.

Regards

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
07/02/2008 15:07

milou

thank you very much for your comments and im glad you have settled in to cyprus life, my comments are not directed at you or the people who have taken the time to read and learn, but like i said i feel the forum has droped in quality a bit because they would rather talk about things which are not even concerning cyprus which is a shame, im not saying lets only chat about cyprus's problems but their must be more interesting and signaficant things to chat about other than some of the things that have been posted as of late



i understand what your are saying about greek cypriots might be reading these posts thats why not once have i directed abuse towards them and they are more than welcome to come on this site and discuss matters in a civil manner, but in my past experiances they cant do this without throwing insults or abuse (just look at other forums like topix) and at the end of the day this a forum for turks, expats who live and love north cyprus

Long Live K.K.T.C

warm regards to you

ukturk

simma



Joined: 03/02/2008
Posts: 346

Message Posted:
07/02/2008 15:27

Cheers uk turk. Of course I'm interested, who the right mind would want to ignore it? Most people I speak to the uk didn't even realise that Cyprus was divided let alone who is to blame for starting the problem or a solution. It's obviously the same around other European countries too.

simma



Joined: 03/02/2008
Posts: 346

Message Posted:
07/02/2008 15:33

Uk turk. btw fags are also of extreme importance. ha ha

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
07/02/2008 20:35

Erkan,

Good to read you banging on again, the reason that the forum is going down in quality is because your posts have become less frequent .I have learnt a lot of things,regarding the cyprus conflict since i started posting on here,and have found myself embroiled in the situation .And you deseve a lot of credit for bringing this information to the fore.Dont get to big headed though or i will send chas and dave out to you, rabbit,rabbit.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
07/02/2008 21:17

hi paul

thanks for your strange but kind words!!!!! lol

not sure if you are right in what you are saying about the quality of the forum is suffering because im posting less, if this is the reason mate i really dont want to post things just for the sake of it

and dont be jealous that tottenham have 80's pop icons singing about their team!!!!

regards to all

erkan

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
07/02/2008 22:12

Strange but true words,and watch your spare tyres.