turkish cypriots favour permanent split

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
03/12/2007 20:53

According to an article in the independent 60% of turkish cypriots would sooner have a complete split from the south is this the way forward i personally dont think so but would value all your opinions on this.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
03/12/2007 21:06

Most likely outcome I agree, and concurs with most of my TC friends views to.

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
03/12/2007 21:38

Hi all,



I think its the best and safest option to have a breakaway republic in the north!!



If we re-unite then lots of complications will occur for mainly TCs and foreigners also!!



Thats my pennies worth!



Take care-D

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
03/12/2007 21:51

davidoff, where you been hiding? Long time no hear



That's really interesting dodger, I rarely see any reference in the papers to Cyprus. If you are able to scan the article could you e-mail it to me.



I guess TC views have changed since the GC's declined the Annan plan. Agree with davidoff that there could be complications for foreigners if they unite.



Personally, I feel that they should stay as two separate states. This could work very effectively if the land and freedom of movement issues could be circumvented. Also the GC's will probably worry about the NC tourist industry threatening their own.



I would value your opinion dodger as you feel a split isn't the way forward

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
03/12/2007 21:53

why this dramatic switch from 65% in favour to unite. as one, to 60% wanting to be seperate.

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
03/12/2007 22:01

We have splitted with south long ago in 1963 when they forcefully kicked us out of the equal partnership government. But yet we tried to reunite with the GCs for half a century and each time they closed the door on our face,whilst crying out to the world their one sided propaganda.



TCs and GCs are forced to find a common state because the major powers of the world have decided that it is the best for the international diplomatic balances, not because GCs and TCs are dying to have a common state. The documentary that you watched Hulk is an example of the life the TCs have been forced to live between 1963 and 1974 for 11 years, if it were not for international pressure would the TCs of course prefer to go their way.



Even in Belgium the federation is crumbling where the Waloons and the Flemish have a far greater number of similarities and the Flemish do not view the Walloons as inferior.



The last time we found a common state(functional federation) with the Greek Cypriots it only lasted three years(60-63) and they forcefully kicked us out of the republic. They stole the title of the Republic and made it a solely Greek Cypriot state.



As we have had this past experience we wanted new solution plans to be based on two states, so that when the GCs once again steal the common state we are not left out in the cold again.



Annan plan provided for this, as the GC leader Papadopullos said "I took over a state(the fake Republic of Cyprus), i wont leave behind a community/federated state of gcs." He knew that Annan plan would end their occupation of the Republic of Cyprus.



It is certain that with a cold blooded murderer like Papadopullos as the leader of the GCs, there for sure wont be a voluntary acceptance by the GC side of a solution plan.



It is unlikely in the near future that GCs will give up their occupation of the Republic of Cyprus, apologise from the TCs of the genocide and the occupation of the common state and openly confirm that they are only one of the two partners equal at the Republic of Cyprus partnership so they cannot use that name.



It is highly unlikely that the communist party candidate wins the february greek cypriot community leadership elections.



If he wins though, we can expect slight improvements like the opening of Ledra/Lokmaci crossing, allowance of TC plated taxis to south, allowing the TC students in South to get Turkish education and some other fundamental humanitarian moves. The solution to the cyprus problem even in this unlikely case of communist election would be a miracle.



Countries objecting the Turkey's EU accession are highly likely to use South Cyprus as a means to their aims, blocking Turkey and continuing the isolation of North Cyprus in the process as a side effect.



I think, only if the german and french governments once again become Social Democrat dominated, combined with a labour government in UK can there be improvements with regards to the isolation of the TCs, as it will be done in parallel to these leaderships views about Turkey and Turks.



The international balance of power unfortunately is the main variable in the Turkish Cypriot embargoes, rather than the concern for the human beings in North Cyprus. But we should try to convey our views of the problem harder so that we make the embargoes lifted earlier.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
03/12/2007 22:16

Mark,

I actually read the article from a british newspaper called the independent,just surfing round the papers and saw the article.I suppose i am in two minds really,since i have been coming on this forum i have managed to pick up bits and pieces about the countries history and going back over the years it seems that the turk cyps have always got the thin end of the wedge even as close as the 15th of august 74 when the three villages were ransacked and only the people that managed to hide were saved.but the greeks said that it was just turkish propaganda and no one believed them.



Correct me if i am wrong isnt it really two states now but the south have all the bargaining power,and the minnows (n.c.) are not recognised as a country,any time they try to put ideas forward the greeks just get the big stick out and the north retreats again.I personally think that other countries should have more say in the matter,and things should be on more of an even keel.The north should be able to tade and embargos should be lifted or are the south so frightened of good honest competititon.



Imagine how things would change if someone were to strike oil in the north,the americans would be in the russians the brits,then i would imagine things would be different.To be honest i cannot make my mind up which way it should go,and i feel a bit of an imposter really as it not my country and i do not know enough about the conflict.But just from scratching at the surface as i have it is plain for me to see that things have not been fair for the north over the years.Sorry for the rant but i had to get it of my chest.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
03/12/2007 22:27

Hi dodger, no need to send me the article. I have just gone out and bought the paper- how sad is that I need to get out more.



It is interesting how the article has been framed. There is a sarcastic swipe, probably aimed at the EU for hanging the TC's out to dry after the annan plan.



I have no doubt that the GC's would not seek to physically extricate the TC's as in the 60's, however, the GC's with their superior numbers, but far more importantly superior bank accounts fueled by their superior notions would eventually push the TC's in to subordinate roles in many areas of Cypriot life.



dodger, the turn around in opinion is probably due to the TC's now feeling independently stronger, financially and maybe even politically, as well as the frustration felt by the GC intransigence. Sure as Alasian says, the TRNC has been on the wrong side of the political elite, especially as the GC's have strong and wealthy allies in the form of Armenians and Greeks in the US, however Turkey is getting stronger economicaly, strategicaly and militarily, so the power may be shifting.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
03/12/2007 22:32

hi dodger, I was writing my last post as you were writing yours.

Like you I am a foreigner and am only beginning to learn the history.

Everything in your post seems to fit.



By the way, there is reported to be large deposits of oil located off the southern shore of Cyprus.

smoggyjim


Joined: 21/07/2007
Posts: 214

Message Posted:
04/12/2007 09:07

find an interesting article at this web site maybe the UN are starting to wake up http://www.cna.org.cy/website/english/announcedisplay2.asp?id=1

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/12/2007 11:11

thanks smoggyjim



The UN secretary seems right to me. Lifting social, sporting and economic embargoes does not mean recognition, it only builds trust. The GC's have played this game poorly.

In any case, the two sides may be called Cypriot, but I can't think of any moden day example where people with two different languages and religions have successfully merged. It doesn't make sense to do so.

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
04/12/2007 11:27

Hi all,



dodger- Basically the problems arose before the 1950s and not from 1974 !!!



Take care-D

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/12/2007 11:31

very true davidoff

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
04/12/2007 13:44

hi guys

it is true now that the turkish cypriots are in favour of a permanent split from the south

three years ago the people of north cyprus voted in favour of a peaceful resolution to the division of the ısland and we were rewarded by being denied entry in to the e.u, now the first time in years 60% ( a recent poll) of the population of north cyprus prefer a permanent split of cyprus thanks to broken promises by brussels and the rest of the international community

this is a big diffrence of three years ago when the turkish cypriots voted 65% in favour of the u.n backed peace plan of unification where the greeks voted against the plan

in a recent interview with the president of north cyprus mehmet ali talat said that he expressed frustration at the lack of progress in peace talks. "I find myself continuously warning the international community and the Greek Cypriot side that the Green Line is becoming more and more permanent, not

less,"

"Turkish Cypriots have started to say if they don't want a solution with us, if they don't want to live with us why should we continue to ask to live together, what is the point? A growing number of Turkish Cypriot's are thinking this every day. The walls between the two peoples are growing taller every day."



i agree with him and i personally never wanted or will want reunification we have done ok up to now with all these embargos and restriciations aimed at north cyprus and we will continue as it is if so be it, all i want is for n cyprus to have the right to be allowed to trade with whoever we want to and not to always ask for permission of the greeks or the e.u

ok i got that of my chest now feel a bit better for now!!!

regards to all

and long live the turkish republic of north cyprus and all the people who live and love the country

ukturk (erkan)

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
04/12/2007 14:46

One of the major problems, as ilovecyprus very correctly has found is that the Greeks are getting all the praise for everything good about our geography. All the food, music, dances and the ancient achievements they get the praise.



We do not look like central asians and for sure we are the indigenous people of this geography(anyway-how indigenous can anyone be when science says all people distributed all over the world from africa 200K years ago)



Western Turks and Greeks look identical, Northern Turks look identical with Pontian Greeks, Turkish Cypriots look identical with the Greek Cypriots and Eastern Turks look identical with Kurds and Armenians.



For every greek in greece, we can find the identical looking turk in Turkey, but the one to get all the praise for the history of the same land will be the greek one.



Yet, The turks have been so seperated from the achievements of their ancestors and the extension of the western culture created by their ancestors that today no one associates the old history of the culture with the today's living turks.



The turks are also doing nothing about this. Because as they speak Turkish today, and the religion of most of the turkish speaking people is islam, they cannot imagine their ancestors having lived in Anatolia and Cyprus before 1000AD when real muslim Turkics invaded anatolia.



I disagree with this view completely.



For me, our history starts with ancient anatolians, and our written history starts with anatolian empires which spoke Anatolian languages and had the ancient anatolian culture. Hittites, Lydians, Carians, Lycians, Phyrigians are some of our ancient ancestors.



There are lots of achievements of the ancient anatolians between 2000BC and around 300BC when Alexander the Great greatly caused the Hellenization, thus the ellimination of all anatolian languages with his conquest.



Here are some examples for our ancestors achievements:



The Ancient Anatolians have(2000BC-300BC) :



*Conquered Cyprus long before ancient greeks(Hittites)



Hittite god fighting the Minoan griffin, from frieze at Engome/Alasia/Tuzla, North Cyprus

http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/battles/Aloessa/HittiteGod.jpg



*Found iron working-some disagree(Hittites)

*Made the first peace treaty of the world-Kadesh(Around 3000years ago with Egypt)

*Found the coinage(Lydians-2500years ago) and retail shops(Lydians)

*Tamed the horse(Hittites)

*First love poem of the world(Hittites)

*First agriculture related sculpture of the world(Hittites)

*First european language speaking kingdom(Hittites)

*Latest rearch shows that Trojans were speaking an Anatolian language,not greek.

*.....

----------------



The Anatolians got seperated from the Western culture after getting islamized at various times between 1000years to 100years ago. They for long years rejected the structures left from their ancestors as the remnants of infidels and sold them over to museums all over the world.



This has changed with Ataturk, who has brought us back to life from our ashes right as when we were completely about to become Arabs(no insult, just it is not our culture) of south eastern europe.



He has changed the name of many places to the ancient anatolian ones and he greatly supported the study of our ancient kingdoms' history. He also has done huge reforms to re-westernize the Turkish speaking society.



As an example, for 1500 years, the Turks have forgotten their ancestor, Saint Nicholas/Father Christmas a Lycian which is world famous for a joyous and happy event.



But, thanks to the Ataturk reforms, 80 years ago,Western Turks returned to the christmas celebrations that originated from themselves.



Western Turks make the exact christmas celebration with the tree,presents, santa claus costume and turkey on new years eve, not on 24th/25th. By the way, no western Turk sees this as celebrating the bir

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
04/12/2007 14:50

Correction:But it must be interesting that in the world, the only "muslim" nation to celebrate christmas is Western Turks and ofcourse the Turkish Cypriots.

meddmale


Joined: 19/11/2007
Posts: 43

Message Posted:
04/12/2007 17:03

We couldn’t trust the Greeks in the past and nothing has changed, they teach their children to hate us, regard Cyprus as theirs alone and think we are sub human, second class citizens.



They have even stopped us playing football with the rest of the world, and their coach trips over even bring sandwiches so as not to spend any money on our side



The rest of the world backed by Greek supporting politicians such as Teresa Villiers has only offered us empty promises especially after the referendum



Who in their right mind would want people with these views to have a say over their features?



Remember the old adage about Troy,

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
04/12/2007 23:36

Its great to read your posts guys you write with so much passion in your hearts and fire in your bellies.You obviously love your country and are all unified,since reading up over the last couple of days i have changed my views and believe that there should be a complete split from the south,but only if money could be pumped in to carry on the work of the infrastucture of the north.What worries me though is if there was a split is there a chance that northern cyprus could become the forgotten country,i hope not,

Paul.

TonyH


Joined: 22/11/2007
Posts: 107

Message Posted:
05/12/2007 18:04

Alasian...........the only "muslim" nation to celebrate christmas is Western Turks and ofcourse the Turkish Cypriots.



Not correct, they celebrate Christmas in many Muslim countries, here in Iraq for example. I think Jesus ranks as their number two prophet and is held in high esteem.



Regards Tony

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
05/12/2007 19:35

hi tony

you are right about jesus, muslims hold jesus (isa) in high regard they belive in him being a prophet and the one who will rise again, but not the son of god

regards mate

meddmale


Joined: 19/11/2007
Posts: 43

Message Posted:
05/12/2007 22:30

Hulk



Don’t worry about a split having to much in the way of a financial implication the

North has slowly been getting richer (just look how many Range Rovers there are) soon out side companies as HSBC has done will realise the benefits of access to a small population with a reasonable income and nothing to spend it on and either they will come over or one of our business men will fill the gap in the market



If its shopping you are after I can recommend a trip to one of the many shopping centres Istanbul these abound with English shops Debenhams, M&S, Harvey Nichols, Next, Dot.perks, Evens even B&Q



All these companies would be in the North now but for pressure from the GC`s

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
05/12/2007 23:04

Thank you for the information Tony, i am not surprised as with the dire situation they are in now, the Iraqis need to celebrate every event that they can.



The international coffee franchise Gloria Jeans is opening in Lefkosa. This is the first new international brand after BurgerKing.



I suspect soon the GC administration may force the company to change its name to Gloria Skirts followed by John Trousers as they previously forced Burger King to change to Burger City followed by the change of brand colour from red to blue.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
06/12/2007 20:29

Thanks for the info meddmale,much appreciated.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
09/12/2007 03:03

Bump it up.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
10/12/2007 14:42

hi guys

i have a list of many laws and bylaws if the greek cypriot community had agreed to the 2004 annan referenum, in my view thank god they actually did not agree to this because once again the turkish cypriots would be a minority and it would not have any advantages for the turks mostly for the greeks

but what most turkish cypriots care about is being reconised and be able to trade without any problems at the expense of many other things which i dont agree with, im in favour of being reconised but not at any other expense like the turkish army retreating giving back land to the greeks, and not have a big say on how the country is ruled



1. The bi-zonal, bi-communal “United Cyprus Republic” would have been officially declared and internationally recognized.



2. In June 13, 2004, the members of the federal parliament, senators representing the people and the members of the European Parliament from both founding states would have been elected.



3. The federal parliament would be formed.



4. Four Greek Cypriots and two Turkish Cypriots with full voting rights, together with two Greek Cypriots and one Turkish Cypriot without voting rights, would form the federal presidential council.



5. The president of the “United Cyprus Republic” would be the Greek Cypriot member of the presidential cabinet until June 2, 2008, the last day of the fifth alternation period, comprising 300 days each. Alternatively, in each odd-numbered period, a Greek Cypriot member of the presidential cabinet would become president and a Turkish Cypriot would take the post in each even-numbered period.



6. The disposition of immovable property would have already been started, and the Turkish Cypriot founding state would have handed over at least 25 villages to the Greek Cypriot founding state in the areas agreed and defined in the Annan plan.



7. Some 25,000 Greek Cypriots would have vacated their pre-1974-owned properties and the progressive return of a further 60,000 Greek Cypriots choosing to live in the territories of the Turkish Cypriot founding state would be completed. A total of 85,000 Greek Cypriots would now be residing in the north.



8. Turkish visitors from Turkey would need an EU entry visa to visit Cyprus.



9. Some 36,500 Turkish troops would already have left the island according to the “Progressive Return Plan” as defined in the plan, and the remaining troops would need permission to leave from the UN.



10. The Greek Cypriot pre-1974 land owners would have regained possession of one-third of their lands before the end of 2008.



11. The Greek Cypriot pre-1974 land owners would start receiving monetary compensation for the remaining two-thirds of their lands at the beginning of 2009.



12. An “autonomous Greek Cypriot region” consisting of four villages on the Karpaz Peninsula would already be established and all the pre-1974 residents of these villages and their descendants would be living there under their own rule.



13. Demilitarization of both founding states would be completed and the local armed forces of both states, the Greek National Guards and Turkish Armed Forces (TSK), would be demobilized.



14. Some 12,000 Turkish Cypriot civil servants would lose their jobs due to the adaptation of EU rules and regulations.



15. Greek Cypriot bureaucrats would be occupying all the higher offices in the government structure of the United Cyprus Republic, until the necessary training of the Turkish Cypriots was fully completed, taking a minimum of four years.



16. The most important offices in civil aviation, airports, the central bank, land registry, telecommunications, customs, immigration, coast guard and maritime would be administered by the federal government, in which almost 90 percent of the high level bureaucrats would be Greek Cypriots.



now by reading this do you think this is fair on the turkish cypri

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/12/2007 15:31

Thanks for this Ercan

The TC's were prepared to make some big sacrificies in saying 'yes'. When you look at this it is hard to believe that the GC's voted 'no'. What else did they want?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/12/2007 15:33

Sorry Erkan for the mispelling of your name. I was getting you mixed up with the airport. Not sure how

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
10/12/2007 15:58

no worries dark i mean mark oh sorry mate got you name confused with day and night lol

i get that a lot on this forum some people dont know the diffrence between ercan c said as a j and erkan k said as a k lol

i know what you mean you see how the greeks bite of their nose to spite their face, if they would have agreed to this plan they would be in a far better positon to any new future plans put forward again well their loss is are gain

take care mate

erKan lol

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
10/12/2007 19:19

Hi ukturk,



Interesting reading!!!



WOW- Definately glad that the annan plan subsided- As it all sounds very one sided again with the greeks getting everything and having complete control over cyprus yet again!!!



Take care-D

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
10/12/2007 20:16

Hi ILC and Erkan,

The GCs voted against the Annan Plan because they don't want to power share with the TCs. The TCs (WRONGLY) are viewed as an ethnic minority in Cyprus just as TCs are an ethnic minority in the UK for example. But of course the TCs are not an ethnic minority (a subordinate group), they are indigenous to Cyprus and have a right to Cyprus just as much as the GCs. The higher numbers of GCs is irrelevant; the point is, Cyprus is homeland to the TCs, they are not immigrants in Cyprus. I agree with Erkan, thank goodness the GCs voted 'no'. IMO partition and recognition is the best way forward.



Donna

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
10/12/2007 20:19

I must add: TCs are viewed as an ethnic minority by the GCs rather than an indigenous group with rights. How can there possibly be a solution when the GCs think like this? TCs will never accept an all GC government ruling over them.

TonyH


Joined: 22/11/2007
Posts: 107

Message Posted:
10/12/2007 22:49

What a recipe for disaster that agreement would have been.



I think it would have fostered resentment which over time would probably have erupted into violence due to the one sided nature of the 'agreement'.



Good luck to the TCs.



Lucky escape for one and all in my view.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
10/12/2007 23:29

hi all

just to add to donna's comments which is correct, the greeks also did not accept this agrement because they wanted all their land back or full payment on what it is worth going on european prices, and only compensation given to turkish cypriots who could prove they had land pre 70's so in theroy they would throw out all turkish mainlanders who migrated over to cyprus after 72 so we are talking 3rd and 4th genaraions of families kicked out and forced to go back to turkey

donna i totally agree on what you are saying about turkish cypriots not accepting a minority postion in government and for the people but the sad thing is in this annan plan refereum a major majority said yes because it was portrayed in such a fashion that the north cypriots were enticed in to a false way out of finally being reconised but it was the opposite it was like going back to having the same rights as before very minanmal and look what happend then

so in actual fact the greeks by saying no has done the north cypriots a favour because firstly it has put the spotlight on the greek cypriots (world wise) that they are not willing to negotiate in a resolution, secondly this has given the north cypriots time to think about the situation and now vote in favour of a permanent split which is excellent, look what kofi anan was offering crumbs and the greeks still said no to that

so now we can can move forward to a reconised northern cyprus country where the economy is flourishing all laws are upheld especially the house buying ones so we dont have people being ripped off and then in turn coming on to the forum to report their plight and then arguments break out between posters over their views and how they express them 'Mentioning No Names or Subjects!!!!'

got that of my chest phew!!! lol

warm regards to you all and seasons greetings

all together now Jingle bells, jingle bells

uk 'ho ho ho' turk

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
11/12/2007 00:56

Hi Erkan,

Very good analysis; and I too, was pleased when the GCs voted against the Annan Plan but feel saddened that the IC/UN/EU have not kept their word to to end the TRNC embargoes and restrictions or the isolation of TCs.



'Jingle bells, jingle bells...' sung Marilyn Monroe style? LOL.



Best wishes

Donna

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
11/12/2007 11:15

hi donna

thank you on your aproval lol, i dont feel saddened i feel angry and let down but used to it by now on the situation, international commitee wise they are a few countries around europe and middle eastern countries are starting to see the truth and looking beyond the propaganda that has been put in front of them i feel this is the way forward if enuf countries demostrate that they support the north cyprus plight then finally the e.u will see and have to evaluate the situation if not by reconising but by dropping these embargoes we dont need to enter the e.u just be allowed to trade and be free to do what we want as a seperate republic and not answer to the e.u puppet masters you look at most countires who have accepted e.u policies they are all suffering with debit, inflation and the montary system is a complete joke and are dictated to by brussels i.e the lesser poorer countries like poland, romania, slovakia, slovenia, bulgaria, estonia and latvia the only thing that has benifited them is now they have european passports to go over to the u.k and work and earn money and send it back to their home countries where in turn this cripples the u.k economy

donna i would love to see that with your santa claus outfit on singing jingle bells marilyn monroe style but i would prefer the song 'santa baby' LOL

take care and regards

erkan

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
11/12/2007 13:54

UKTurk



You forgot to mention EU CORRUPTION - for the 13th year running, the auditors can't sign off accounts. You also forgot to mention the endless gravy train and the only two courageous empoyees who blew the whisltle were fired and had no recourse to justice......I could go and on and on and on............



Regards

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
11/12/2007 14:13

hi milou

i did not forget to mention but just wanted to skim on the subject otherwise like you know we could be here all day on the disadvantages of the e.u and their corrupt politcian member states

take care and regards

ukturk

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/12/2007 17:25

Hi Erkan



What do you think of Erolz's solution for Cyprus? Seems to me that Erolz's identity is firmly Cypriot and see's no difference between TC's and GC's. I like the fact that he wants a good solution for the Turkish settlers. The brits are probably viewed further down the pecking order



Donna, I see your posts on here



http://trncvillaowners.phpbb3now.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1078&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=10

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
11/12/2007 20:07

ILC,

My views are the same wherever I post.

Do you post on there?

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
11/12/2007 20:17

ILC,

..as an aka? I've not seen 'ILC'. Do tell, who are you on there?! LOL.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
11/12/2007 21:24

guys

oh my god i cant belive it i was just scouring the net for peoples views on the erolz solution

so i went to yahoo typed in erolz solution for cyprus and press search and you would not guess what come in at number 10 our forum with the subject heading 'the aftermath of the turkish intervention 1974-77' the subject i started and had many other peoples views on it too, look whats happened we are getting heard outside the forum we are world wide web famous especially donna right under the heading is her handle name LOL LOL

im well chuffed, london lingo meaning this is very pleasing to me lol

warm regards

erkan



link provided below

http://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?p=erolz+solution+for+cyprus&fr=yfp-t-501&ei=UTF-8&rd=r1

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
11/12/2007 21:38

Hi Erkan,

'The aftermath...' thread is excellent. Pleased it hit number 10 (need to get it to number 1) (in comes Led Zepplin's, Whole Lot of Love).



I don't agree with Erolz' solution to Cyprus but I enjoy reading his posts (even if I disagree with him) especially when he's in a debate with anti-TC/TRNC individuals.



But when are YOU Erkan, Alasian, ILC going to get in on the act in the VO forum?

Best wishes

Donna

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/12/2007 10:47

Hi Donna



I've not yet posted on there. Haven't had the time but I will



Hey Erkan, fame at last. No 10 Well find something to hit No 1



Does anybody read Erolz's bi communal site?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/12/2007 12:24

Hi Guys



Saw this posting. This an interesting alliance, with Russia being in on the act. Looks like Turkey strengthening it's ties with the TRNC



"The 7th Turkic World's Economy, Informatics and Culture Forum hosted this year by the TRNC will be held between December 11 th-14th at the Near East University's Ataturk Culture and Congress Centre.



Besides Turkey and the TRNC, delegates from Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Russia and Georgia will be attending the forum.



The Turkish Minister of State Kursad Tuzmen arrived in TRNC yesterday. Mr. Tuzmen will be taking part in the 7th Turkic World's Economy, Informatics and Culture Forum hosted this year by the TRNC.



During his stay in the Republic, the Turkish Minister of State will also be holding contacts with various state and government officials.



Mr. Tuzmen is also expected to come together with representatives from the business sector to discuss ways of improving trade relations between the two countries.



The 7th Turkic World's Economy, Informatics and Culture Forum hosted this year by the TRNC will be held between December 11th-14th at the Near East University's Ataturk Culture and Congress Centre. Turkish Minister of State Kursad Tuzmen will take the floor at the opening session of the forum organized jointly by the Turkish Prime Ministry's Foreign Trade Under secretariat and the Near East University.



President Mehmet All Talat and Prime Minister Ferdi Sabit Soyer will also be delivering speeches at the opening session of the forum.



Besides Turkey and the TRNC, delegates from Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Russia and Georgia will be attending the forum."

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
17/12/2007 14:19

hi guys

i was reading in a turkish newspaper that the government of kktc has accused the u.n security council of failure to adopt a report by the u.n secretary general which he said that the isolation of north cyprus must be stopped and also that the security council has given into other countries like russia who seem to be in favour of the greek cypriots and it seems that their bullsh.t propaganda has worked with some countries like the russians who have the power of veto in the u.n security council

it seems to me like this whole situation is a game being played by the e.u-u.n and the greeks, one minute the turkish cypriots are getting support from germany - u.k a few other european countries the arab world and some figures in the u.n, and then the greeks are going around like headless chickens to muster support from countries like russia etc

its like that song 'whatever you can do, i can do better'

anyway below is the report i found for you guys to have a read



The council on Friday deplored the failure of Greek and Turkish Cypriot leaders to start negotiations to reunify Cyprus and urged both sides to immediately begin preparations for talks. In a resolution extending the mandate of the UN peacekeeping force in Cyprus until June 15, 2008, the council said that "the status quo is unacceptable, time is not on the side of a settlement and negotiations to reunify the island have been at an impasse for too long."

While recommending the extension of the mandate of the UN Peacekeeping Force in Cyprus (UNFICYP) for another six months in his report to the council, UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon also said earlier this month that ending Turkish Cypriot isolation was important and emphasized that ending the isolation would not mean granting political recognition to the KKTC.



Yet Russia which has veto-power in the UN Security Council -- clearly assured Greek Cypriots last week that the recent report drawn up by Ban, which was harshly criticized by the Greek Cypriots, would not be included in the upcoming draft resolution to be adopted by the UN Security Council. KKTC Foreign Minister Turgay Avcı, in a written statement posted to news rooms on Saturday, said the council bowed to pressure from certain countries like Russia, which has been acting "like a spokesperson" for the Greek Cypriots in a milieu where Turkish Cypriots have not been represented. He also said the right address for the UN Security Council's appeal for returning to talks immediately should be the Greek Cypriots, as the Turkish Cypriot side has been constantly introducing proposals for a resolution.



All sort of peace attempts are destined to fail unless the inhuman isolation imposed on the Turkish Cypriot people is lifted, Avcı stressed. "The fact that these inhuman policies assumed by the Greek side are not openly rejected by both the European Union and the UN and that concrete steps for lifting these are not taken will lead to stiffening of already draconian policies of the Greek leadership, which doesn't want to give the right to live on the island to the Turkish Cypriots

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
17/12/2007 20:24

This is the one that i read erkan,isnt it the job of the u.n. not to take sides in the problem.It seems to me that if the greeks stamp their feet in a tantrum because they dont like a statement that someone has written, or they think that the turk cyps are gaining in some way,then they will back down.Of course northern cyprus is in some sort of isolation anyone with half a brain can see that It so annoys me that the u.n. do not have the bollocks to stand up to the greeks,after they have made their so called "conflicting" statements.



Why cant someone come forward and say that there are trade embargos on the north that must stop as they are unfair and unjust.Someone may say this one day but when the greeks complain about it the statement will be retracted.Why cant someone say that more direct flights to the north need to be a must to open up the island for more tourists to visit Maybe they will but then the toys will be thrown out of the pram again and nothing will happen.



Were has Gordon Brown dissapeared to regarding the issues seem to remember he made a staement a few months ago about how he dissagreed with the way things were going,got his knuckles wrapped and jumped ship.



jelly fish all of them they have no spine.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
17/12/2007 22:29

hi paul

you see the u.n is a world organisation consisting of 192 member states, so remember every country has a diffrent view on issues comcerning the world this is including the cyprus situation, countries that are in favour of north cyprus but they hardly get heard because the security council is the be all and end all of the u.n, the security council is 15 member states, 10 of them are elected by the big five - u.s - russia - u.k - china - france and these elite states have the power of veto to any issues

so if you are in with one of these elite states they help and support you like greece and russia so any plans these elcected secretary's views can eassily be brushed aside, exactly what the last secretary had to deal with kofi annan

with his resoultion, i tell you mate its like a cat and mouse game and its a not what you know but who you know situation

then lets say hyperthetically speaking all the big five say they agree on n.cyprus being reconised the e.u member states still have a say aswell on being reconised and full embargos lifted, what might happen is they lift some embargos on the north to entice them in to agree to anything, i dont think this will happen cos the n cypriots have wisened up and also slowly but surley other countries are in support of n cyprus

so lets just see what happens i think we are in for a bit of a wait but i hope not too long!!!!

and dont get me started on gordon brown his case is he was all mouth when he was a no2 that he could do a better job on running the country but now he is a no1 he is realising that its a far more harder job than he thought and plus he lacks any personality at least with blair he could back his bullsh.t and he did do a good job in his early years when the contry was sauufering from the consertives, now is it me is labour becoming the new conservties even brown was wearing a blue light lol

sorry mate for the long story!!! sometimes i just start typing and cant stop LOL

regards

erkan



p.s that is a insult to jelly fish mate they are more like osmosis from a bottom of a boat or like the shit of the bottom of your favorite shoes!!

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
17/12/2007 23:10

Good post mate,

So if there are 192 member states does that mean they all have a say then or is it the so called big five that carry the power,the others have their say but the big five dont really listen to what they say unless they are part of the staus quo.



Has there ever been a referendum involving all 192 member states,asking them were they stand on the cyprus problem i wonder how many of the 192 would be in favour of moving the goal posts more in favour of the north.Just a thought.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
17/12/2007 23:48

hi mate

all the states have a very small say but it is channeled through the secretery who in turn reports to the 15 states and even if the 10 temp states all agree the final decision lies in the hands on the 5 elite they are the only ones with the power of veto

there must of been some sort referendum involving them cos we had the annan plan which turned out not to be in our favour more of a quick fix rather than a long term plan

i wonder to how many of the 192 are pro north cyprus, but do you know what i want to know how come russia and greece and south cyprus have got a cosy friendship what are they up to, im not sure but does russia and greece share the same princiaple religion now if this is true it show you politicsand religion do run together especially in the u.n and e.u's case

regards mate

erkan

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
18/12/2007 20:28

Evening all,

its official dodger is definetley an annorack,information regarding the last post.

Greece, the greek islands and russia are the only countries to have such a great proportion of people that belong to the orthodox church.



Russia consists of 72% orthodox

5% muslim

2% catholic

0.6%buddist

0.3 % jewish

0.9% other.

these figures are from 1996.





Greece consists of 97% orthodox christian.

the rest are muslim, catholics and jews.



NO WONDER THEY SHARE THE TOP TABLE

AT THE U.N.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
18/12/2007 22:18

evening mate

see what i told you, greece and russia are orthodox buddies, it just shows that religion does run paralell with politics in the u.n and the e.u

ive got another thing that bothers me why is russia so keen to help the greeks what are they getting out of it, they must have someting up their sleve concerning turkey dont forget russia and greece border turkey or am i thinking to deep

regrads

erkan

p.s also mate dont know if you read my reply to you on the festivel concerning sacarifice

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
18/12/2007 23:04

Never saw it mate which thread was it the u.n. one.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
19/12/2007 12:03

hi matey

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/show-message.asp?messageID=1010

this is the thread and the question you was asking about how the sacafice started and also corrected some mis-infomation

regards mate

erkan

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
19/12/2007 12:19

Hi all,



GOOD POINT UKTURK- Never really sussed before that greece and russia border turkey!!



Also with russia trrying to flex its muscles recently proves they may have a hidden agenda somewhere?? Definately something to think about??



Also Ive heard that talat gave a speech recently and was talking about a federation in cyprus- Which is good news!!!



This should mean one country, two seperate states but all with the same , equal human and leagl rights!!



Or have I mis-understood??



Take care-D

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
19/12/2007 13:10

UK Turk

You have raised the most important question for the future of both Turkey and TRNC on why Russia should back Greece - historically, Russia and Turkey have been adversaries and Russians have an inert fear of Islam - Russia can see how powerful Turkey is becoming. The question I ask is whether Russia believes that the EU will grant Turkey entry, if they do? why should Russia back an EU state when it's not to their advantage? I don't believe it's for any monetary gain - what are the papers in Turkey saying?



Regards

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
19/12/2007 15:01

hi guys

historically turkey and russia have been adveraries but not bossom budies, and like you said have been pretty weary of turkey being a muslim country but not a severe one thanks to ataturk with his secular views, accusations have been thrown at each other, with russia saying turkey help and fund the rebel muslim chechens in russia and turkey saying russia fund and help the kurdish terrorists

recently thou buisness has been good betwen the two countries with over 25billion dollars in trade most of this coming from russia's limitless energy resources, the reason russia backs turkey to join the e.u is because its a back door for russia to recive more money for their energy resources (if you sell to richer countries you get more money) and because russia borders turkey it would be more easy to transport this, but on the other hand russian buisness men may suffer econmic losses because its easier to deal with one country rather than a whole set of countries i.e the e.u

so what it boils down to is money you have to remember istanbul's (not the whole of turkey) economy surpasses 127 countries with its $133 billion yearly income and beats nine e.u member countries with its economy's size, these countries are slovakia, bulgaria, lithuania, slovenia, luxembourg, letonia, estonia, greek cyprus and malta.

the view of most turks and the media is that russia needs turkey as much as turkey needs russia (a lot of russian buisness in turkey, russian tourists, back door to europe to sell their energy resources, russian own land and property in turkey even roman abromavich has houses here in marmaris) and turkey need russia for their energy.

the cyprus situation thou is confussing they back greece maybe cos of relgion i dont know and many people here in turkey i have asked have also the same answer and recently russia's foreign minister said in ankara that turkey-greece should resolve the cyprus situation thru the u.n,

this leads me to belive in my view that defo russia has hidden motives behind this remember russia has power of veto, we will just have to see what the outcome will be for turkey assertion in to the e.u and most important north cyprus, turkish press and government always state they will never leave or sacarfice their brothers and sisters in north cyprus lets see what the future holds!!!!

sorry to go on so long once i start typing i cant stop lol

also i got a link for you guys on turkey and russia relations

http://www.axisglobe.com/article.asp?article=213



regards to all

ukturk

Milou


Joined: 15/10/2007
Posts: 425

Message Posted:
19/12/2007 16:38

UKTurk



I didn't realise how strong relations were between Turkey and Russia - this is truly good news. I don't know why but I feel that something will break for the benefit of TRNC in the next six months as there appears to be lots of acitivity behind the scenes with different countries - Europe seems to be getting tired of the the usual intransigent attitude of the Greeks over Cyprus which is now getting embarrasing for the EU particularly, if they want to keep good relations with Turkey.



It's good to have someone with your knowledge.



When you see Abromovich, tell him to come and invest in TRNC!!!



Regards

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
19/12/2007 17:04

hi milou

thanks for you comments

yes i agree i think 2008 we will have some sort of progress in the north cyprus situation

to tell you the truth i did actually meet roman in my friends resturant when he was here in july just being a normal tourist i did say to his entourage that he shouls have invested in spurs instead of chelski (sorry football again!!!) lol

i also meet bill gates who was here too in june!!!!



im not sure if this is gospel i did hear his company have invested in north cyprus they are developing a site called chelsea village, i have seen this site too looks massive, dont know if they have just copied this name or it is actually his companies development, because aswell as jews heavely investing into cyprus the russians are too investing in these areas

regards

ukturk