Dog walkers at Guzelyali beach, beware!!

Warbabies


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 165

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 18:23

This morning my son, with three friends was on Guzelyali beach carrying out a geological study of rocks, pebbles etc. His little woolly Cyprus poodle, Dolly, was playing happily on the beach. She is known to many in the Lapta/Alsancak area and is a gentle, friendly little thing. They were aware of a Staffie Bull Terrier, sandy coloured, way off in the distance with its woman owner, when suddenly the Staffie came hurtling along the beach, grabbed Dolly by the neck and dragged her, shrieking, into the water, trying to drown her. One of the friends was fortunately very agile and quick, rushed into the water, kicked the Staffie and hauled Dolly out. One can imagine the state she was in, soaked, freezing cold, and terrified. Now, many hours later, she is still very nervous and it will be a while before she recovers. The woman owner must surely be aware that her dog can behave in this way,-- and should keep it under control at all times, before something more serious occurs.

tarry67


Joined: 16/05/2008
Posts: 1053

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 19:44

I am down there this week, and if I see the Staffie I will take it snorkelling with me along with the stupid woman.

eastendjoker


Joined: 24/04/2008
Posts: 166

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 19:48

did anybody confront the owner regarding the dogs behaviour.

Tango1


Joined: 19/02/2011
Posts: 1151

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 20:35

In cases like this you will probably find that owners deny the dog is theirs and play the innocent, rather than admit they own a dangerous animal.

rowan


Joined: 04/09/2008
Posts: 450

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 20:41

i understood that dogs were not alloowed on this beach and lso there have been many poisonings there

Deniz1


Joined: 28/07/2009
Posts: 3829

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 21:30

If dogs wore muzzles when they are running free they would bite anything or eat poison.

davpat


Joined: 23/08/2011
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 15:31

Deniz1,





I assume you meant....................wouldNT bight anything or eat poison.

doddies


Joined: 16/02/2009
Posts: 102

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 15:51

I also thought there were signs on this beach saying NO DOGS?

Deniz1


Joined: 28/07/2009
Posts: 3829

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 16:06

Msg 7 yes i meant wouldnt.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 19:43

Anyone who has a dog which cannot behave off lead ,should not have it off lead!

Being a good dog owner is about having control of your dog!

My personal feelings are that all dogs in public places should be on lead.

The downside of that is where is it dog owners can take their dogs for a run out? I don't think any safe place exists here.?

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 22:02

Obviously even such a dedicated dog lover as myself would not want dogs on beaches in summer among the human lobsters - after all there are enough humans to kick sand in one's face without a playful puppy being unable to resist joinining in the fun!



However I think there is a unspoken agreement that there is no serious objection to dog being allowed a run deserted beaches in winter - and they really love it!



But apart from other things there is so much broken glass it is yet another place too dangerous for them.



Of course any responsible dog owner when their dog is running free calls it to them and put it on the lead if they see other dogs - the response depends on the age and length training of the dog! Open spaces are a good place to train dogs, and a certain degree of tolerance should be allowed.



Large aggressive dogs should be under control at ALL times. imho tighter controls are needed on certain breeds

katty


Joined: 05/07/2009
Posts: 43

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 23:53

sorry to hear about dolly being attacked could you please ring me on 05338499648 i would

like to no if it was the same dog that attacked our dog having arround 20 stitches on her back end

please reply forgot to mention this dog if the one has attacked numerous dogs in the Karsiyaka

area and i will help tarry on his snorkling expedition

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
25/11/2011 11:03

I don't think this is about large agressive breeds, just careless owners. Small dog owners can be just as bad.

Training is needed for all dogs regardless of breed or size.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
25/11/2011 23:46

I agree Blade, but dogs dont come ready trained and it takes time. There is a stage when one has completed basic training in ones own home/garden. and has to get a young dog accustomed to behaving in wider spaces - and at this stage one cannot garantee it will immediately obey commands. I am actually at this stage with a seven months old puppy who has learned lead training, sit, stay and come in the garden but now needs to practice where there is more distraction - and I am at my wits end to know where to take here todo this, particularly as I have two other dogs to look after at the same time.



But my point is that she is tiny and friendly so any risk is to her if she does not obey commands , not others.



Large dogs which are bred for their strength and fighting qualities , particularly Pit Bull Terriers, ARE a known risk to adults and larger dogs, let alone children and small animals and require more expert handling than most of us are capable of, and are not really safe

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
25/11/2011 23:56

off the lead in public places.



It is hard enough to train and excercise dogs in this post Anan country , with the dangers of poison, traffic, natural hazards and people who object to dogs anywhere, without having to protect them against dangerous breeds which are not really suitable as pets as well.

bertieboss


Joined: 22/07/2011
Posts: 149

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 03:20

There are no "dangerous breeds".

It's the humans that are dangerous.

Half wits who try to " humanise " dogs are the danger.

Some idiot earlier suggested her dog was bi - lingual !!!!

I rest my case.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 07:13

"However I think there is a unspoken agreement that there is no serious objection to dog being allowed a run deserted beaches in winter "

Hope your Turkish is good enough to explain this to the police.... as there is no winter amnesty. So you are taking a risk particularly so on these clearly visible Turtle nesting beaches, albeit that the police don't normally get involved; they've usually got better things to do - but hey, there's always a first time....

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 13:14

Bi lingual dogs thats an interesting comment.

We had a dog he was born in Italy and shipped to the south as a puppy. He understood Greek for the first year of his life. Then he came to live with us and learnt English commands and did very well.

So i guess they can be , from my experience.



Bizzi, if your dog recalls in your garden why would it not do that out and about? Are you confident enough to let your dogs off here? Do you make them were a muzzel?

What we do need is a dog park! Safe and secure.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 13:35

What Greek words did the dog speak then?

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 17:49

1 Groucho: Sorry i my ealier post I forgot to mention the Turtle nesting beaches. Naturally I do not take my dogs to those.



2 Blade: A young dog will obey the recall command in the familiar surrounding of its own garden may still be excited and distracted by unusual sounds and smells and forget its training and needs to be trained in unfamiliar surroundings before it can be really trusted. A secure dog park would be useful, but pre Anan hysteria there were plenty of reasonably safe places where a dog could be trained. Dogs in training also need to be accustomed to traffic - my older dogs will sit (on the llead) and wait before crossing a road - but now it is impossible to take a semi trained dogs on even previously quiet village roads.



3. My dogs understand a few basic commands and words (principally "Otur" and "Arkadaş) in Turkish . This is so that any Turkish speakers , particularly children, we meet can understand that the dogs are under control and not aggres

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 18:00

contd.. aggressive and hopefully become less timid of them. IN fact some of the village children came to love my dogs and beg to take them on the lead - which I allowed under strict supervision with the smaller older dog. Good community relations imho.



As for the "there is no such things as a



bad dog just bad owners" that is an oversimplification by people prejudiced against new small dogs and new owners.



There are good owners, indifferent, and poor onwners as in everything else, There are easily trainable dogs and there are hyperactive dogs and , sadly here many traumatised dogs. Unfortunately people who have little or no experience of dogs take them on our of sheer kindness because of the plight of strays, or like myself take on more than they can easily handle. These people shoudl be helped particularly with regad to training facilities and not subjec to constant carping on top of their other troubles.



It is the people who deliberately buy or breed large dogs

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 18:07

which are bred to be aggressive, in order to impress or intimidate others who should be penalised.



What is needed is an association dedicated to protecting the interests of responsible dog owners. Otherwise in a country where homes are desperately needed for strays, people will simply be put off caring for dogs, by the combination of prejudiced dog haters and those who buy the wrong kind of dogs for the wrong reasons.



The quality of my life and that of my dogs and of many others like us has been seriously damaged by the influx of Litte Englanders and it is time something was done about it.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 18:14

This incident is again clearly another illustration of the terretorial and fighting instinct of dogs. People simply do not understand the evolutionary path of these animals. far too many see dogs as gentle puppies that could not and would not harm anything.



How nany times.....its OK he wont bite.... Of course it wont... even though it has the canine equipment and genetic inheritance to do so at will. Can people really talk to the animals?...if only they could !!

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 18:21

AS for muzzles, why should it be necessary to muzzle non aggressive, trained dogs? I did muzzle one dog once, not because it was dangerous but because it was hyper active and took longer to train than average, and was particularly prone to picking up rubbish and also barked a lot (a very annoying yappy bark) and was an annoyance in public places, It hated the muzzle and tried to rub if off, resulting in a dangerous eye infection.



Also with the best will and care in the world, a dog can be frightened and slip a collar and run until it is tired and lost. Without a muzzle it has at least a 50% chance surviving until it is found rescued. With one it is unable to drink and in summer would succomb to heat exhaustion and deydration very early. Would you put a man in handcuffs every time he went out, because some men are criminals and violent?



AS for the Police - no I do not speak good enough Turkish to explain to any I happen to meet on a beach - never happned yet!



Actions

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 18:30

speak louder than words! The local shepherds greet me because they know I put dogs on a lead in the vicinity of a flock. On one occasion I put a couple of young and friendly but frisky dogs on the lead ona winter beach when I saw young local couple approaching with a small child. Far from calling the Police they took the trouble to come over and thank me! A little mutual understanding and respect goes a long way.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 19:08

which are bred to be aggressive, in order to impress or intimidate others who should be penalised.



What is needed is an association dedicated to protecting the interests of responsible dog owners. Otherwise in a country where homes are desperately needed for strays, people will simply be put off caring for dogs, by the combination of prejudiced dog haters and those who buy the wrong kind of dogs for the wrong reasons.



The quality of my life and that of my dogs and of many others like us has been seriously damaged by the influx of Litte Englanders and it is time something was done about it.

bertieboss


Joined: 22/07/2011
Posts: 149

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 02:34

As I said earlier it's not the dogs that are the problem and BL proves my point!!

Warbabies


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 165

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 11:57

Further to my original posting, if anyone else has experienced problems with the sandy/tan staffie on Guzelyali beach, we do now know the address of the woman owner and will probably be visiting her to make her aware of the damage her dog has done, and to ask what steps she will take to prevent such distress and damage to our pets in future.

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 12:22

Is it or is not against the law to take dogs on beaches here in the TRNC? A definitive answer from someone who actually knows the law would be useful.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 14:05

Dogs are banned from all public beaches and that's the law.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 19:08

I believe Groucho is right the letter of the law is no dogs on beaches. However, as I tried to explain earlier it is more honoured in the breach than the observance IN WINTER. |In the past I have walked my dogs on various beaches (NOT THOSE WITH TURTLES) met fishermen, shepherds, other dog walkers, picnicers etc. none of whom has objected (some have stopped to pet the dogs) since they were causing no disruption. The only problem has been the filth and broken glass on the beaches. This should be addressed before worrying about supervised dogs.



Dolly the dog in the OP was "happily playing on the beach" when she was attacked. Is she and my dogs (also

"gentle friendly little things") and others like them to be denied yet another source of freedom because one stupid woman had an unsuitable dog and couldnt and wouldnt control it.



By all means approach the woman, if you think you can handle her(!) but dont spoil things for Dolly and others.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 19:10

Capitals in post 31 intended to emphasise important points, not shouting!

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 22:11

If, IMHO, dogs are prohibited from beaches - observe the law and do not take them on prohibited areas. I have 2 rescue dogs and observe the law.

rowan


Joined: 04/09/2008
Posts: 450

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 22:18

have to say that i do not live far from this beach but would not dream of taking my dogs there because of the notices, previous poisoinings and now this, too scared, and not prepared to risk my animals

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 22:53

So where do you take your dogs then? Or are you, like me and my dogs, now prisoners in your own gardens?



I used, within limits of consideration for others, to have the freedom to walk with my dogs throughtout this country, No more. Has no one now got any consideration for others, tolerance or sense of compromise?



The villain here is one person with a dog which is recognised in the TRNC and UK as a dangerous breed that was out of control. Why are you all trying to make the innocent suffer - do you all suffer from a complete blief in your own right to dictate to others, including the authorities of the country you live in.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 22:59

why dont you walk the dog up the mountains , have you ever thought , that people on a beach dont want to be covered in dog poo ?

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 23:28

It certainlyi is the case that dog ownership is no small responsibility. A fact that many take far too lightly.

The result is the deplorable situation of too many strays, too many poorly cared for animals, an increase aggressive breeds and breeding for human vanity.



Dogs have been utalised by man for hundreds of years as working animals. More recently man has used dogs as companions andv ery recemtly as items of bling, status and fashion. This is very sad and doomed to bring strife to man and dog alike.



The situation in TRNC is out of hand and i fear that given the the absence of any measure to address the problem, matters will continue to decline. If numbers increase without check I see an emergence of social packs of dogs that will resort to aggression in order to compete for available food and territory.

rowan


Joined: 04/09/2008
Posts: 450

Message Posted:
28/11/2011 05:31

in answer to the question, no my dogs are not prisoners in their own home. I have somewhere I go but am not prepared to say on here where we go.

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
28/11/2011 07:51

Msg 35, get up into the forests and mountains, country. Why do you have the arrogance to ignore the law here relating to dogs on beaches? Do you break the law on speeding, stealing etc? We are guests here - please act as one and observe the hosts' laws.

Warbabies


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 165

Message Posted:
28/11/2011 15:37

Re.Post 39-----We are NOT guests here, we are Temporary Residents,-- guests are received with pleasure and treated accordingly. Their hosts make them welcome and their stay as comfortable as possible.

As for taking dogs into the forests and up the mountains, have you not heard of poisoning in Bahceli? I would also suggest that a lot of the beaches are not fit places for either dogs or humans, covered as they are with broken glass, rubbish and filth, until the rough, higher water of winter washes them a bit cleaner. Only then do we venture forth.

I don't think I am either arrogant nor ignorant of the law, since I was told several years ago that dogs could be exercised on the beach between October and April. If this has changed perhaps you could tell where we can read the relevant details.

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
28/11/2011 15:46

I am not in Cyprus right now, but would think, re: msg 40 - who was it who told you - you could exercise dogs on the beach between October and April - was it a TRNC official? doubt it - and as you are now being told it is NOT legal to do so (I am a dog lover, but not one day of the year, in any country, would I think it right or proper to walk or let run free - a dog on a beach, where humans; specially children, play...



Is it not up to you to find out from an OFFICIAL representative of TRNC where you can and cannot walk a dog?

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
28/11/2011 18:30

Msg 40 - go to your local Police Station or solicitor and ask. Poison is a risk anywhere here - beach, field, road/track et al, so your reference to Bahçeli makes no sense. Ms Garnet is correct, if you are a dog owner, it is your responsibility to ascertain where dogs can/cannot be exercised. Incidentally, the same law regarding dogs on beaches applies in the RoC, where I lived for a while in the late 90s. Temporary residents are guests. We have no rights, no representation via politicians and no say in any law-making process.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
28/11/2011 18:46

Rowlo Please read other peoples' posts instead of just reitterating your own prejudices. I am talking about beaches in winter . I dont take dogs on summer beaches when swimmers and sunbathers are using them- apart from anything else it is too hot nor have I seen anyone else doing so.



This country used to be far far pleasanter (even with the many deprivations) and life was more relaxed. We enjoyed some of the last unspoiled beaches in the Meditteranean and were proud of them. Now sadly so many of them have been covered in concrete and (incidentally illegally) expensive of access to please the artificial pleasures of a few.



Sadly , because of the political situation this has to be accepted, because it is the only way the country can make money.



In winter when the tourists and holiday homers have gone we get our country back. Sometimes we even manage to drive on quiet roads free of bullies in bully cars. We enjoy walking - with or without dogs - in the few areas of c

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
28/11/2011 18:56

countyside and beaches still unspoiled (except for rubbish but that is another issue). The authorities have far better things to do than worry people who are enjoying innocent pleasures and causing no harm to anyone.



As for the notices - I have not seen the beach in question - but usually they are not put up by the authorities but by people who are trying to break the law by illegally claiming foreshore which is free of access to anyone. And even they really dont care in winter - the beaches have to be cleaned in Spring before they can be used for sunbathing etc anyway.



And by the way this may surprise you, but dogs are very clever but it doesnt extend to reading"! The strays dont look at the notices and think , Oh we must go to the toilet somewhere else!



This isnt, Thank Goodness, a nanny society. If you want to live in one please go elsewhere.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
28/11/2011 19:00

WAZ Message 37



I totally agree with all you say, particularly regarding "status" dogs. But please bear in mind that quite a lot of people - expat and Cypriot - take on the care of strays, perhaps misguidedly , out of sheer kindness of heart to to save them from a worse fate without adequate experience or realising the problems - such as poison and the anti dog brigade among the Brits - they should behelped not frustrated in their efforts however small to mitigate the situation.

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
28/11/2011 22:35

Msg 44 - no, dogs do not read, nor do they pay the fines - owners have that responsibility.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
28/11/2011 23:38

I was told l5 years ago when I first took on a stray dog and enquired about suitable places for exercising her, that , whilst there was technically there was a law against dogs on beaches, this was intended to prevent them causing nuisance on summer beaches being used by tourists etc., and in practice there was no objection to them on deserted beaches in winter. The various people I spoke to included Cypiots (inluding an ex policeman) and British permanent residents who had lived here for up to twenty years and knew and respected the country.



I prefer to rely on their advice rather than that of people who have no knowledge or understanding of where they live and are ruining it by trying to impose their prejudices on others.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
29/11/2011 01:13

BL msg 45.



You are clearly a person of compasion and have the welfare of aflicted animals at heart. This indeed is a noble cause.

However i feel that animal ownership by humans wether it be dog , cat, reptile or bird is not essential and certainly not necessary as a ticket to mans survival. It is when times get hard that animals as luxury accessories become surplus to necessiity and are thence too easily discarded.

Some measure of control of "luxury" animals is needed to prevent the dumping culture that is leading to an epidemic of unwanted and neglected animals. It is not only in the TRNC but much of the wealthy, civilised world is being overun with discarded animal toys.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
29/11/2011 07:10

BizziLizzi

We are dog people, we have a dog... when we found out the dogs are not allowed on beaches we decided it was right to avoid these spots. If your dog craps on the beach it does affect the quality of water at any time of year and people do swim all year round.... we were watching people swimming on Monday this week....

All the rest is just an excuse... well, you are not excused. Just because the law is unevenly enforced does not mean you are either.