EU Treaty vetoed by Cameron

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 16:10

Talks in Brussels to secure a new EU treaty to strengthen fiscal union have failed after Prime Minister David Cameron vetoed any agreement as he was unable to secure concessions for the UK’s financial services industry.

Eurozone leaders are now working on a new intergovernmental treaty that may only involve 23 member states, with Hungary also opting out and the Czech Republic and Sweden still weighing up their options.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 16:11

Following the talks, which ended early this morning, Cameron said: “We wish them well because we want everyone to sort out their problems because we all need that growth.

“But at the end of the day I made my judgement that it was not in Britain’s interests. I effectively wielded the veto.”

According to the Financial Times, French president Nicolas Sarkozy said: “Very simply, in order to accept the reform of the treaty at 27, David Cameron asked for what we thought was unacceptable: a protocol to exonerate the UK from financial services regulation. We could not accept this as at least part of the problems Europe is facing came from this sector.”

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 16:12

France and Germany were pushing for changes to the EU treaty which would see EU member states subject to the same financial regulation and the creation of a financial transaction tax. Cameron has warned a European FTT would hit the UK hardest, see financial services firms move outside Europe and burden pension savers and other investors with extra costs.

Cameron said: “I had to pursue very doggedly what was in British national interest.”

European Central Bank president Mario Draghi signalled his approval for the intergovernmental treaty, which the FT says is a key vote of confidence and could allow the ECB to move more aggressively in eurozone bond markets.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 16:19

http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/1043008.article?cmpid=MME01&cmptype=newsletter&email=true

walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 16:25

Nice to hear! Thanks for that info. Well done David Cameron!

Merkel and the womanising Sarkozy are just postponing the inevitable! They are after Power & Control through the Euro ...

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 16:34

Hypothetically, if the UK were to eventually leave the EU would the UK citizens lose the right to live and work in Europe?

paddywack


Joined: 04/05/2009
Posts: 959

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 16:47

Bill

If UK citizens lose the right to work in Europe,then European citizens lose the right to work in the UK,which would help the unemployment figures.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 16:50

msge 6



Hi Bill



I understand that Switzerland agrees to adopt EU law in order to participate in the European single market. Part of the EU law is to allow the free movement of people across borders. Switzerland also signed up to the Schengen agreement. My understanding is that the Swiss are troubled by the fact that their borders are being flooded by German professionals, who can earn more in Switzerland, than they can in Germany.



Switzerland cannot influence EU law but has to abide by it. If I understand correctly, failure to abide by all the laws would result in loss of membership to the single market.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 16:51

I would think so No1 Doyen, as a Channel Islander I am only allowed to work freely in Europe because of my English parentage, A true home grown Channel Islander (without UK lineage )although holding a British passport is denied the freedom to work in Europe..

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 16:54

I like the french pm's comment that we/ britian caused part of the problem.



Well i can assure him on behalf of the people of the UK .That we will not be working until we are dead, so that he or any other lazy, non tax paying euro member can work part time hrs, claim pensions at 35 and sit on their lazy backsides sticking their cash under the bed at our expense.



Well done Cameron!

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 16:55

msge 8



Correction.



Switzerland has to abide by the laws that the Swiss and the EU have both agreed are relevant. So the Swiss are not held to all EU laws, but they would be under pressure to abide by any new laws that the EU felt they should abide by.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 17:00

I want my BRITISH passport back!

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 17:18

German speaking papers say (free summary): " 26 v 1", " the brits cannot have everything" (so, the brits may lose more then they expect) , "the UK wants to be another star on amerikas flag", "Cameron protects banking sector and hedgefonds". this sort of things.

Bill made an comment here: http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/80408.asp "..Cameron found his testicles.."

I believe that neither Cameron nor the EUzone (Merkozy) found their testicles yet, the story is not over.

steve.sewell


Joined: 07/11/2011
Posts: 277

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 17:24

Message6



I have been asking this for months.

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 17:27

msg 10... ".... so that he or any other lazy, non tax paying euro member.... "

.... said a 45 year old retired farmer living in girne, enjoiing the sun.. ok, today rain.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 18:06

ilc messages 8 and 11:



mark's comments about switzerland are relevant to the uk

countries like norway, and iceland, are part of the European Free Trade Area

and as switzerland (and turkey for that matter) enjoy free trade between themselves and the EU



if the UK ever leaves, it is a moot point whether it would be welcome as a free trade partner,

the general supposition is a probable "yes" and with its banking etc activities and so on,

would be well-placed as a capital refuge and financial services provider



however kind one tries to be about the eurozone this looks set to be a basket case for all our lifetimes,

but there is some truth in criticism of the uk not participating yet carping from the sidelines

although an editorial in one british paper suggest britain would never have ignored historic greek deficits

...and maybe saved the eurozone from itself



msg 13: sad that some germans cannot accept responsibility for their creation

rocking


Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 421

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 18:19

Bill, have been watching news all day - although BBC World very lefty. Thank goodness he is starting to do what his pre election promises were - to put citizens of UK foremost in his mind - I think the vote on the EU reforendum spooked him a few weeks ago, think he is taking his head out of the sand gradually.

boysie2670


Joined: 28/01/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 18:26

Lets resurrect Maggie,she chopped off more testes than Blair, Brown et al ever had drop

to make them mature !

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 18:28

Rita, not all day - I broke off for lunch. ) )

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 18:34

msge 19



Have you not heard of a working lunch Bill

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 18:41

hehe, well said boysie

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 18:41

) ) )

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 18:44

Re the EU, perhaps we should all start learning Mandarin.

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 19:29

andre154.. "...would be welcome as a free trade partner, the general supposition is a probable "yes..": Eu papers accused the brits of beeing "greedy".

you believe that the UK would be " ..well-placed as a capital refuge...": if it comes to the worse/good, then it might be that the 26 will not allow that any more and cancel eg the double taxation agreement = any bank doing business in UK, have to pay a FTT in the EU anyway. "The 26" could do nasty things to the UK with the same argumentation as Cameron said "No".. “But at the end of the day we made our judgement that it was not in the EU interests " , see msg 2.... Also the chance to be a leading (or only) " ..financial services provider.. " is in danger as the 26 might change their policies. some services will not be requiered any more. other forbidden. All this.. it really seem to be a "..basket case for all our lifetime.." not only for the british.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 19:54

The UK cannot trust these people whose own abdication of their responsibilities is the very cause of the crisis. More fool them if they trust each other.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 20:21

Watch the coalition crumble now !

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 20:30

along with the british economy turts ,

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 20:49

That's already f****d rowlo

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 21:01

I didnt think that the pot smoking tory boy had it in him,



Paul.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 21:07

Paul it takes a good old tory boy to sort out the mess that the silly socialist put us in

clayton


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 1143

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 21:08

david cameron has announced he is going to make it more difficult for people to claim benefits,so from next week the forms are going to be printed in english.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 21:10

nice one clayton

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 21:23

message 24:



"you believe..."



well, I'd hope it was an objective reading of the situation, rather than any abstract beliefs!



the arguments are not so strongly in favour of britain staying in the eu,

in particular there is constant interference from unelected officials and billions handed over every year

yes, the double taxation and free trade agreements are vital but please don't tax the City to death



I think people have lost sight of the real reasons it was set up in the first place, to somehow

make europe strong again in a postwar world dominated by capitalist america and the soviet

bloc, but it has not really lived up to claims to be representational or even-handed...

of course most of the poorer players are all in favour for the handouts they have been promised



and I speak as someone who used to be strongly europhile thirty years ago, but increasingly it

seems the uk is being ripped off, via the main losers of world war 2, france and germany

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 21:49

msge 33



"I think people have lost sight of the real reasons it was set up in the first place....."



You are right Andre and the reason it wants to stay intact is to ensure a decrepit and ageing (population) can stay strong against much younger and virile (population) emerging economies. Internally the EU IS still full of power politics and where is the love.

Britain already pays a large chunk in to the EU and Britain would be paying 35% of the total revenue generated by this transaction tax. Surely the EU should be offering us a concession in return. With its monetary position Germany can undercut UK prices by 15-20%.



As Andre says the minnows will be expecting their hand outs, not least Croatia.



We have been taking it up the a... for too long.



Anyway, where is the EU growth going to come from?

What is going to be done about rising unemployment in the southern countries?

Are the Northern countries going to pay higher taxes to support the uncompetitive south?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 01:10

Will the Maastricht Treaty need to be rewritten?

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 01:26

Mountain, paddle & creek come to mine! So it's okay for GB to bully the Commonwealth as they are 'in charge' but to bail out of any sort of communal responsibility because they're not calling the shots and wish to play 'party-poopers' as most spoilt bully-boys brats are, is beyond contempt!



Richard

joseph


Joined: 17/04/2008
Posts: 709

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 01:32

Communism was dealt a fatal blow when the wall came down



Now it's eldset son ..Socialism... is fighting for it's sickly life.



Thankfully it is incuarable and will meet it's inevitable end.



Joseph

bertieboss


Joined: 22/07/2011
Posts: 149

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 01:38

Mess 37 You're not Keith Joseph the mad monk are you??

EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 01:56

If Cameron had real "balls" he would stand up to the saboteurs in his own party ! It seems to me that the Tory party has been a" house divided" for many years ! Maggie Thatcher ruined Britain when she extolled and promoted the cause of the individual over that of society ! The present government would not exist if the Lib/Dems knew what he planned to do today ! The Lib/Dems are politically naive and my bet is an election in Britain before 18 months are out, as the cost of isolation starts to bite . The brutal truth is that the banks/ financial centres are the cause of the problem and should not be part of the solution.. their greed and total lack of morality should exclude their participation . No country can stand alone against a huge union and expect to influence it's policy from the margins ! It's NOT in Europe's or Britains best interests that they are at odds ! Just my opinion !

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 09:33

Just another thought: IF a FTT is introduced, many financial transactions make no sense an more. So, the forcasted tax income will not be as high as predicted, therefore taxes will be go up, most probably, tax on capital, a capital tax, which both are often low taxed. The financial industry will be "slowed down", markets also will "go down", the times of plenty are over, they are over anyway. But, did somebody calculated what each community, society or Eurogroup will SAVE by not paying billions billions, trillions to banks as a "commission"?

Dont they eat our money?, I agree with Eamonn, banks should not be part of the solution. It is not in the interest of the british people, call them the 99% if you like, that Cameron said NO for DOUBTFUL reasons which do NOT benefit the british.

Meanwhile the euro sceptics in GB could have a look towards europe..they are "not alone". Yes, its time to "change the EU", but not by separating from each other.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 11:52

Taking commission aside the banking industry in London pay 60 billion into the tax system and that needs to be protected.

Who give the EU (France & Germany) the right to milk our more profiable areas.



I wonder what Ms Merkal would say if we proposed an extra business tax on her booming manufacturing sector ?

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 15:23

Kibsolar re message 15.

What my profile says and whats true are two different things, lol.



I work more hours than most people, 24 per day, 7 days per week, i take 4 weeks holiday a year. When i take that holiday i am usually sorting out company business for a few days as well. I don't think anyone could consider me lazy!

I pay tax in the UK, have a business and property there.

I am way off pension age, thinking there will still be a pension for me when i retire in many years to come.

Why should we work for ever just to fund the lazy so and so's? I can't see the German tax payers being to happy either. Mercel will be gone soon along with the french joke of a pm, then who will be leading the euro zone.?

Tonyta


Joined: 11/06/2011
Posts: 122

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 16:50

DC simply asked for the Veto on any new financial arrangments to remain. The UK has been leading the EU in producing new regulations for the banks and other financial services but DC is worried that the EU will impose this tax when the rest of the world does not. France and Germany are playing a different game in that they wish to take some of the bank business from the UK back into their countries. If it was simpy to raise tax, why not tax Champagne at the same rate across the EU that we tax it in the UK. The tax could pay off the EU's debts with such revenue, but I am sure Sarkosy would Veto that.....

kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 19:03

blade.. whom do you mean with "..the lazy so and so's.."? the 55 year old greek teacher, who works more hrs a week then any teacher in the UK, with two children earning 1500 euro and need to pay 800 euro for a dirty flat in Athens?, the 25 year old spanish master who cannot find a job? No "normal worker" in the EU can affort to be lazy.

" ...who (then) will be leading the euro zone?" the legal successors, who else? Eg a direct elected french PRESIDENT.

No, Tonyta, many of the EU member states would like to avoid the enormous costs this banking business creates. You might did not follow this EU "mind finding", you see only the outcome.. but Germany and France have been against the FTT.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 19:50

according to the news we are totally safe from whatever they decide to within the financial system for EU.We are now only in the EU union which is to do with free trade etc,not the euro zone of countries who use the euro.If they(26 other countries) want to try and impose anything on us it has to be done within the original treary rules.Wait until all these new members get into the euro and then we will see what happens,half of them are nearly bankrupt now,thats why they want in for the free hand outs to prop them up.As the tory party chairman said "he was glad we are not in th euro currency" and that Cameron did a Stirling job(pardon the pun).If anything now goes wrong it is down in law that the government has to have a referendum to see whether we are in or out. Mind you the ~~~UK has always been one to want to join the club but only if she can pick out the bits that we like.I always thought if you joined a club yuou abided by the club rules like it or not....

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 20:01

Andre

''via the main losers of world war 2, france and germany ''

Is your point that we should get special treatment because of past wars.What about the rest of world that fought in those wars,USSR 40 million dead,If its sacrifices you are on about ,then UK is well down the list for preferential treatment ,a long way behind ,.USSR Yugoslavia. Poland ,China ,etc.



WW2 ended 65 years ago ,as did the British Empire, the Napoleonic War about 200years ago. About time you moved on. Nearly all the populations of Europe were not around then ,so fail to see what you expect them to do that is relevant to wars they didnt fight in or start.

walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 20:47

Efforts by European leaders to shoe-horn a range of diverse countries into a rigid financial cage are doomed to fail. But that’s all part of a long-term plan for a global super-currency which can only bring more hardship to ordinary working people.

A question that more and more people are asking nowadays is, “What on Earth were the Europeans thinking when they agreed to have just one currency for all of Europe?”



http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29937.htm

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 22:00

US General warns of unrest in EU.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16122887

BillBarnacle


Joined: 20/04/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 23:00

What a wonderful day Friday was. It is still not over but Friday 9th Dec 2011 was the beginning of the end of our being shackled to the EU.



As for the preposterous Sarkozy what a twat. The only reason he is desperate to hang on to Germany is because France are in dire straits they just have not been found out yet.



Now we must endure all the craven europhiles delivering warnings of impending doom and isolation and how 5 million Brits will lose their jobs etc etc etc.



Its all scaremongering rubbish. When they spout this nonsense laugh in their face and ridicule them for their foolishness.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 23:01

girne 29:



"...we should get special treatment..."



did I really suggest that?



what I was trying to do was get to the crux of the how and the why:



coal and steel community

common market

european union



...these successive examples of integration got started in the first place



the conventional/official view is somehow it was to do with wars, ie the

prevention of



but wars often happened with the collapse of an understanding not in the frantic

reconstruction boom of post-war europe, safe under the us nuclear umbrella



no, in my view it was all to do with the reestablishment of european power via

integration, to achieve what these definately unsuper powers could no longer do



look at this: in the build up to the suez adventure, one leading french politician

suggested a franco-british union to the then british government...as revealed in

recent document releases...the offer was rejected after a discussion in cabinet



so instead of them...hem, it could have b

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 23:02

if they squeeze the pound to hard , me thinks it will burst , then what ?

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 23:04

so instead of them..hem it could have been you...hoo

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 23:47

I'm amazed that the "big news" is spposed to be britain's/cameron's isolation

while the other 26 are happy to divert themselves in a fairly pointless "blame game"



the vital issue for europe is whether the euro will survive to see its eleventh birthday



and the issue for britain is if it might not be better for the uk to be in a free trade

relationship if it proves impossible to get any eu agreements the country badly needs

rick1


Joined: 20/04/2010
Posts: 44

Message Posted:
11/12/2011 00:48

An article by Charles Moore of the Telegraph as he sees the isolation of GB.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/8946289/With-one-little-word-Prime-Minister-David-Cameron-breaks-the-European-taboo.html

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/12/2011 00:48

msge 50



"european power via



integration, to achieve what these definately unsuper powers could no longer do"



This is the real reason for EU integration. Countries have bound themselves together to maintain strength and power. Its an empire. The trouble with empires is that it can get pretty nasty when they fall apart. Turkey knows about this, so does Yugoslavia.



msge 53



'while the other 26 are happy to divert themselves in a fairly pointless "blame game"



The EU organism is in the middle of a power struggle. France and Germany together are perceived to be more powerful than Britain.



All small countries try and fathom where the power lies. Russia became a credible superpower when it launched Sputnik. Militarily and scientifically Russia was now seen as superior to the US. Suddenly lots of third world countries turned their back on the US and hedged their bets with Russia.



Its no small wonder why lots of commentators are worried about Britain. We are

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/12/2011 00:49

pulling away from the superorganism