Animals travelling back to UK from North Cyprus

DominicSooty


Joined: 15/07/2011
Posts: 6

Message Posted:
30/12/2011 13:42

Does anyone have up to date news on whether Turkish Airlines has been approved as a carrier after the new quarantine rules are established after 1st January. If the pet has had all the vaccinations and has been blood tested & done its 3 months surely it can go via Turkey to UK on BA?

Hamish


Joined: 19/01/2011
Posts: 128

Message Posted:
30/12/2011 14:19

No unfortunately Turkish Airlines is not approved.

If going from Ercan the pet would need to go to Istanbul (with Turkish Airlines) then a handling agent would need to be employed in Istanbul. New consignment paperworks would need to be completed for onward travel to UK by BA (or other approved airlines). This would be quite expensive. Then once the pet has arrived in the UK it would be kept in "quarantine" until the paperwork from Turkey had been been checked. That is the way for pets travelling cargo.

If the pet is travelling accompanied then the route would be Ercan to Istanbul (Turkish Airlines) with export/import relevent paperwork. That would be the end of that journey - it cannot be included on a through to UK ticket. The pet (and accompanying person) would then need to be transferred (not via transit ) to an Authorised carrier. This will very likely involve a different set of Import/Export paperwork - it is difficult to get exact clarification on this at the moment. ctd

Hamish


Joined: 19/01/2011
Posts: 128

Message Posted:
30/12/2011 14:34

ctd

Either way - cargo or accompanied - it wil be an expensive option due to the transfers in Istanbul.

The alternative flight route is accompanied (jabs/serology/3month wait is complied with) with Turkish Airline into France (they are approved for that route into France). Ercan to Istanbul(Turkish Airlines) then onward to Carles de Gaule (Turkish Airlines). This will be on a through transfer ticket which will not need further paperwork. Once in France (papers checked on entry at the airport) the pet can LEGALLY continue its journey

to UK via Eurostar,in a vehicle,or on some ferries. The pet is travelling at that point from 1 EU country into another EU country.

An alternative option is to contact KAR who are organising overland trips- 3 trips booked already Feb/April/June with more to follow. This can be a better option if you have more than 1 pet or have a large dog or one of the breeds of dog that Turkish Airlines will not carry.

Hope this helps as it is a complicated subject.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
30/12/2011 16:11

Once the pet enters France it can legally?? continue its journey.?

The TRNC is a third country. So your pet needs to stay in France for three months?

Overland trips are also only legal when they are with an approved route/carrier. For this you have to have the proper paperwork.

Has KAR now got DEFRA approved route status? Cos when i enquired about a month ago DEFRA were still saying their is no approved route or carrier from the TRNC.



If you are looking to take pets back to the UK, there is a legal approved route from Bulgaria where they can be prepared legally with a pet passport to enter the UK. They will collect your pet from the ferry port in Turkey and transport it to Bulgaria, prepare for the UK with a legal pet passport, then drive or fly from there.

Turkish airlines also have a very large list of dogs they won't carry so check cos if you have a staffy or dobbie, they won't take it!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
30/12/2011 16:18

The new UK rules require two things as I understand it.



1. That proper paperwork is in place for immunisations and the like. These can be obtained in the TRNC via vets here who send the samples ot EU approved labs.

2. That the animal enters via an approved carrier. There is currently no approved carrier that goes from TRNC to UK direct. However there is nothing illegal about going from the TRNC to a third country that does have a UK approved carrier and from there going to the UK. Both requirments will have been legally met in such a case. Correct paper work and entering via an approved carrier.



Before the changes you would have to either wait in the third country so many months or 'fudge' the paper work so that the TRNC paperwork was lost and only paperwork relating to the third country was used for forwarding to the UK. This is no longer the case from Jan 2012.

Hamish


Joined: 19/01/2011
Posts: 128

Message Posted:
30/12/2011 16:47

Exactly erolz - if going via France - Turkish Airlines are permitted to carry the pets from TRNC to France. They, and the pet, meet all the requirements for entry into France Then the Eurostar and some ferries are approved carriers into the UK - providing the pet meets all the requirements (microchip/rabies vaccinations/serology test at approved lab/pass result/wait required 3 months/relevent vet health certificates/tape worm 1-5 days before entry to UK) then it is entering UK legally.



The overland courier company that KAR is using IS DEFRA approved - it is not going on a direct route (DEFRA say there is no approved route - true because they are referring to a direct route) to UK but an indirect route via other countries which is perfectly permissable. As you say (as i had already mentioned) there are some dogs which are not able to travel with TA - due to size and breed - and also the cost can be cheaper with the overland trip. It is simply an option that is available.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
30/12/2011 17:27

Just to try and nail this once and for all because there has been much posted here and elsewhere for over 6 months now by certain posters that is almost certainly just not correct.

The UK is changing its rules from 1st Jan 2012.

Before that the reason for transporting animals to the UK via a third party EU country was to make it the case that the animal was entering the UK from an EU country by waiting 3 months in that country and getting paperwork in that country or to make it appear this was the case by 'fudging' the paperwork with the help of a friendly vet in the third country.

Post the change the reason for using a third country, and not necessarily an EU one, is simply to meet the 'approved carrier' requirment the UK has and not to make it the case or appear to be the case that the animal has entered from an EU country.

The claims that post the change there is no legal way to get an animal to the UK without doing three months in the thrid country is not I believe correct.

daisythedog


Joined: 17/07/2009
Posts: 73

Message Posted:
30/12/2011 19:07

Erolz is quite correct in his comment about 'approved carrier' requirement. As I have just posted on the other thread on this subject it will no longer be about 'approved routes' but 'approved carriers'.

The only time an' approved route' would apply is in regard to sea/tunnel transport .

Hamish incorrectly mentioned Eurostar - pets not allowed- only on car shuttle

As long as the animal has a clear serological blood test report and has done it's 3 months wait from the date the blood was taken it can enter the Uk to an approved entry point from anywhere with it's point of origin paperwork without the need for quarantine.

DominicSooty


Joined: 15/07/2011
Posts: 6

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 20:26

Thanks for all your help. My pet is a cat and will have done all its micropping, jabs and blood test together with a 3 month wait in North Cyprus before setting off. It seems the best way is Turkish Airlines via Istanbul to France - Is Paris the best place to go? Then onward to UK using the train & shuttle or ferry. Does anyone know if it can be done through Brussels then train & Shuttle? Does the cat keep the original documentation from North Cyprus i.e. Vet certificate, Health Cert. Pet book with list of vaccinations & plane booking. Can I accompany the cat to UK all the way?

muadib


Joined: 19/11/2010
Posts: 74

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 21:25

Isn't there a pet transporter leaving here next month going overland to the U.K?

daisythedog


Joined: 17/07/2009
Posts: 73

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 23:43

Romney, I,ve done about 15 trips to Paris with animals, please email me (janbosley@yahoo.co.uk ) for further info and answers to your questions.

Ann



msg 10 - February and April transporters fully booked next one will be june

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 14:06

msg11 why can't you post the info and answers to the questions on this forum, in order to help anyone wanting to return animals to UK via Paris? or is there "Special" information? Like, "I will say this only once" ...

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 18:14

We have details of an authorised carrier that will collect from Turkey. Currently they are only set up to do dogs but if you could get a group of cat owners together then it could be possible as they are authorised to carry all animals but won't do cats and dogs together. They are a legal authorised route to the UK.

They are an experience English owned company who know there way around the problems and have been shipping dogs out of Turkey for a while.

If you want to email me i will send you details, sharpeisara@hotmail.com.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 18:21

So blade do you also now think it is entirely legal that doing the 3 months in the TRNC and then going via a third country without having to do three months there is a valid route as long as there is a valid carrier to UK from that third country, because for the last 6 months you seem to have been suggesting otherwise would be the case come the change as far as I can see and recall.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:24

Sorry I do not normaly 'push' for an answer from another poster like this and maybe I should not be doing so here but given the mention of 'qualifed opinion' in another thread and the mood I am in right now I am going to.



Blade, once more I ask, is it not the case that your 'qualifed opinion' for around 6 months on here has essentialy been the UK changes that came into force on the 1.1.2012 would make no difference unless and until there was a carrier that went direct from the TRNC to the UK that was deemed a recognised carrier by the UK authorites ? That I and others over this approx 6 months repeatedly suggested that actualy that was not the case and yet you consistently continued to insist it was, right up till you post 13 in this thread, where you now apear to accept that what you had been so vociferously arguing for the previous 6 months is actualy not the case at all.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:37

My personal thoughts are, seeing is beliving.



I see fundamental flaws in certain routes/ways back. Plus a cost factor.



DEFRA are from hell with regards to paperwork, i know this from personal experience.



Currently there is no easy way from the TRNC to the UK.

The company i am recommending is a recognised transport route/ carrier from within the EU. They have been taking Pets from Turkey for a couple of years. They are not wanna bee's so to speak.

There is no approved route from the TRNC, there are ways around this.



Check the DEFRA website and you will see that there is no approved route from the TRNC.



If you want to discuss this off board email me: sharpeisara@hotmail.com

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:48

Blade for 6 months approx you have been saying explicitly that unless and until there is an approved carrier that goes direct from the TRNC to the UK the changes by the UK authorites as of the 1.1.2012 would make no difference to those wishing to take their animals back to the UK ? Is that not the case ? Am I being unfair in saying that (if I am I will abjectedly appologise) ? Did you not post with certaninty about this to date several times, stating how you had spoken to DEFRA and ignoring it when I an others repeatedly suggested that actualy that was not the case. That even WITHOUT an approved carrier direct from the TRNC to the UK the changes would make a real and material difference. Is this not the case ? Are these assertions you were making so forcefully then and weaker till even post post 4 in this thread not in direct contradiction to what you are now saying in message 13 in this thread ?



Shall I look up and quote verbatamin what you said previously ?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:59

In fact blade I have looked up your previous posts on this where you shared your 'personal thoughts' though expressed them somewhat differently back then



http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/67865.asp



Blade (msg 19) "The fact of the matter is that until there is an approved route to move animals from the TRNC to the UK, we have not gained a thing. Cheat the system at your own risk, thats your choice. I love my dogs and would never ever put them at any risk what so ever. Everyone to their own."



Erolz in reply (msg 22) "That is not correct Blade as I understand it. [cut] With the new DEFRA proposals due on 1st Jan 2012 you can use this same route but WITHOUT having to 'fudge' the animals history or 'loose' the TRNC documentation. Even without an approved route via Turkey this is an improvement as a result of the new DEFRA rules. "



THis is just one example of how for 6 months you have been previously stating as FACT things that you now totaly contradict in you message 13 [cont]

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 21:02

Erols,

Tomorrow i will paste here when i get time an email from DEFRA regarding the current situation, which was sent to me around a month ago i belive. Thats if you are calling me a liar?

There are always ways around things, as there has been in the past and will be in the future.

There are many ways out of here, depending on cost and how safe or stupid you want to be.? None of them 100% legal.

An approved EU carrier would be a good idea after all? Again depending on what paperwork your pet has?

I would suggest that anyone who wants to take an animal from the TRNC to the UK should email DEFRA themselves and not listen to people on a chat forum. DEFRA has the final say, nobody else!

After all if i were taking my babies back i would want the best for them.



I will resume this tomorrow when i get time. Good night.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 21:05

in this thread. This is just one example from 6 months ago, but you in fact continued to insist it over and over, citing having spoken to defra and your 'qualifactions' on the matter, always ignoring any suggestions from others that you were not actually correct and in your wake leaving much confusion in others over the whole subject. Even spreadin fear that such a route via tureky could lead to rabies in the UK. Even as late as post 4 in this thread with your multiple question marks you suggest your incorrect assertion again. Then in post 13 you talk about how you have found an authorised carrier that can go from Turkey to the UK with NO MENTION of having to first do quarantine IN TURKEY, basically directly contradicitng everything yopu had asserted as fact previously.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 21:05

Erols, i just saw what you posted above.

There is no approved route, hence technically nothing has change.

As i said i will come back to this tomorrow if i can find the email.

I am off to bed.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 21:13

Blade the route you suggest in message 13 of this thread is it 100% legal or not ? Does it require the animal to do three months IN TURKEY and then onto the UK or can the animal do the 3 months and get the proper paperwork in the TRNC and then goto to Turkey and from there to the UK ? Is it a safe or stupid route ? Would YOU use it to take you babies back to the UK ?



If it is 100% legal how does it square with you assertiopn of fact from 6 months ago (much repeated in between as well) that "The fact of the matter is that until there is an approved route to move animals from the TRNC to the UK, we have not gained a thing. Cheat the system at your own risk, thats your choice. I love my dogs and would never ever put them at any risk what so ever. Everyone to their own."



Just tell me is your route in msg 13 'cheating the system' or not ?

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 14:56

CCU 4th Floor

Ergon House

Horseferry Road

London

SW1P 2AL



Email: helpline@defra.gsi.gov.uk

Website: http://www.defra.gov.uk







CCU Ref: DWOe 253136/TH



1December 2011



Dear Sara,



PET TRAVEL – BRINGING PET DOGS AND CATS FROM NORTH CYPRUS TO THE UK - APPROVED ROUTES AND CARRIERS



Thank you for your e mail of 12 November asking for information about an approved Pet Travel route from North Cyprus to the UK. I have been asked to reply.



I confirm there are no approved routes or carriers for the movement of pet dogs and cats from N Cyprus to the UK listed on the Defra Pet Travel web site at present. We expect more carriers may apply to provide new routes into the UK now that the rules are changing and we anticipate the list may be expanded in the near future.



I advise you to contact the Animal Health Specialist Service Centre for Imports at Chelmsford, Essex for more up to date information. Their contact details are as follows:



Animal Health

Specialist Service Cent

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 14:58

CCU 4th Floor

Ergon House

Horseferry Road

London

SW1P 2AL



Email: helpline@defra.gsi.gov.uk

Website: http://www.defra.gov.uk







CCU Ref: DWOe 253136/TH



1December 2011



Dear Sara,



PET TRAVEL – BRINGING PET DOGS AND CATS FROM NORTH CYPRUS TO THE UK - APPROVED ROUTES AND CARRIERS



Thank you for your e mail of 12 November asking for information about an approved Pet Travel route from North Cyprus to the UK. I have been asked to reply.



I confirm there are no approved routes or carriers for the movement of pet dogs and cats from N Cyprus to the UK listed on the Defra Pet Travel web site at present. We expect more carriers may apply to provide new routes into the UK now that the rules are changing and we anticipate the list may be expanded in the near future.



I advise you to contact the Animal Health Specialist Service Centre for Imports at Chelmsford, Essex for more up to date information. Their contact details are as follows:



Animal Health

Specialist Service Cent

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 15:07

I have tried to paste the email twice but it doesn't appear to be coming up on screen?



Basically the email is to me, date 1-12.2011 saying their is no approved route or carrier from the TRNC at present.



If you read the DEFRA website you will see what i am saying. All of the detail is in what paperwork the pet has and from where.

I will give you an example using my dog Rose. Rose was pet passported in the UK and has lived her with us for a good few years. For the purpose of DEFRA she was passported in the EU. She has every year had her rabies boosters kept up to date. So even though she has lived in a third country/ TRNC she is still able to re- enter any EU country as she had all her paperwork done in one. Her serology report was done in the UK and still stands. She has no time to wait .

So i can legally drive my dog to Turkey, knock on the door of Bulgaria an EU country and she can enter. Then i can legally using a proper transport company / route send her back to the UK.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 15:18

Hence any dog that has an EU passport issued in any EU country can enter legally into any other EU country. No lies, no lost paperwork, ect ect.

A couple of years ago customers of mine took their dogs to Bulgaria to live so i know whats involved as i helped them.

I have also spoken with the Bulgaria authorities and they have no problem with my dogs who have EU passport entering Bulgaria.



There are lots of ways to get pets back, i see flaws and risks with many of them. Its a lot more difficult with pets which are not passported and are travelling on thrid country health certificates.



In answer to your question re my dogs, i would do the above because they all have EU passports.



Are you looking to take your dogs back? or is it some other business interest?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 18:38

Blade for 6 months you have been psiting incorrect information about what the changes that came into force on 1.1.2012 will mean. Stating things as fact that were just plain wrong. Now you are just avoiding having to admit that you were wrong.

I have no commercial interest, unlike yourself. I have an interest in people getting the right and correct information, which is why for 6 months when you have been claiming that unless and until there is an approved carrier direct from the TRNC to UK, the new changes will make no difference to people wishing to legaly take animals back to the UK. It was not right 6 months ago when you stated it as fact and its not right now. You have had it explained to you on this forum over and over from when you first started posting your assertions of facts that were actualy just totaly wrong and still you try and make out you were not wrong.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 18:43

It really is very plain and very simple, despite all your misinformation and bluster. Before the change to move an animal to UK via a third country legally you would have to do the waiting period in that third country and get the paper work in the third country and then go onto the UK. Since the change this no longer the case, you can now legally do the waiting period and test and paperwork in the TRNC and legally go via a third country onto the UK from there.

For 6 months you have been insisting that this was not the case, that you knew, that you had spoken to DEFRA and ignored all those, not just me, that pointed out you were in fact mistaken. You were just plain wrong and you error and certainty with which you insisted you were right actualy caused much confusion that resulted in real world distress for people who were wanting to move their animals and trying to understand how the UK changes would affect that.



You are shameless.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 11:55

Erols,

i have no commercial interest in this what so ever. The company in Bulgaria is not conneted to me, neither does it pay me any commision. So i am shamless? What for helping people for free?



What i have said is not wrong what so ever, as you well know because in your defence you have resorted to going so low as personal insults!



DEFRA have recently tweeked the detail regards those dog who have EU pass ports issued in an EU country. The TRNC is not a EU country its a third country, the TRNC does not issue EU pet passports.

As you can see from the emails above their is no carrier or route from the TRNC, simple.



You think i am shameless, then maybe you should add to that those proffesionals such as Dr Mehmet from the Goverment quarantine department who agrees with me!



And while you are getting your third country paperwork done in the TRNC how are you explaining that you got to the UK without a route or carrier.?

Who's shameless? I did't just get of the banana boat!

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 12:04

http://www.paws-kennels.com/transport.html



I suggest anyone wanting to get their pet back to the UK contact the above company who are an approved route / carrier. They will collect your pet from the ferry port in Turkey.





As i previously said i have no interest financially in this what so ever.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 12:08

Still you are insiting the same fallacies. Since the change the issue is no longer 'route' - that is what conuntry the animal has orignated from. The issue now is 'carriers'. If you are in a country that does not have a direct carrier, you can solve that problem by using a third country that does that you can legaly get your animals to. Before the change this was not possible, because 'route' (where the animal orginated from) did matter. Now it does not. Now as long as the animal is microchipped and has done the proper tests with authorised labs and waiting period (wherever that is geographicaly) and got the correct paperworkl and then enters the UK via an approved CARRIER, then where it originated from prior to that is now not the issue.

[cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 12:12

That is why KAR is now able to run the conveys it is taking animals from the TRNC to the UK and was not able to before this change.

You assertion that the changes make no difference until and unless their is an approved carrier direct from TRNC was worng. It was wrong 6 months ago when you first started making it, it was wrong through out the period from then to now, when many others try to explain that it was wrong and why and you continued to insist it was right and a fact and it remains wrong when you say it still here in post 29.



It will be proven absolutely wrong beyond any possible doubt in very due course, when animals enter the UK legally having gone from the TRNC in a manner that was just not ossible befoe the change and before there is an offical carrier that goes direct from TRNC to UK.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 12:17

Blade before the UK changes that came into effect on 1.1.2012 could the company you quote in message 30 of this thread have offered this service where you do the testing and waiting time in the TRNC or not ? If not then can you not also just accept that when you asserted as fact 6 months ago that the changes the UK was going to make on 1.1.2012 would make no difference (to people wanting to move animals to UK from TRNC) until and unless there was an approved carrier from TRNC to UK was wrong ?

iceman


Joined: 15/08/2008
Posts: 724

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 12:34

Everything you need to know is here in good old plain English



http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/travel/pets/

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 14:16

Thank you Iceman.

I am sure the above and my email from DEFRA clarifies things.



Erols these rules have been tweeked by DEFRA in the last month or so. And please don't judge me by your standards.

The company above i understand have been collecting dogs from Turkey and preping them for pet passports in Bulgaria.

From what i understand this method is much cheaper than preping them here and waiting, especially for those who are kenneling their dogs until they are ready to leave. They are a proper carrier.

I have no idea of their prices per dog, but i am sure they are very competetive as they did me a quote to collect my dog from Hungary. I decided not to use them only because i had a time scale pre Christmas.

I have no interest in this in fact if i was shameless and was doing it for fincial gain, i would be wanting the dogs to stay not leave, would i not?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 17:30

Blade before the changes you could not totaly legitmately 'prep' the animals here and then goto onto the UK. Now you can. That is a material difference as a result of the changes made by the UK as of the 1.1.2012 and without there being an authorised carrier yet that can go direct from the TRNC to the UK. It clearly shows that when 6 months ago you were insisting that until there was an authorised carrier that went direct from the TRNC to the UK the changes would make no difference, you were in fact just totaly wrong. Whether it is cheaper to 'prep' here or not is a total red herring, now that doing it here is possible as a result of the UK change. You could not do it before, you can now and you have previously sated categoricaly that without an approved carrier direct from the TRNC the changes made no difference.

You have done nothing but cause confusion and uncertainty and doubt over the whole thing for over 6 months now.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 18:19

Just to be absolutely as plain and clear as it is possible to be.

Things that were not possible in a totaly legitimate way before the UK changes are now possible since them and that is DESPITE there not yet being an approved carrier that goes direct from TRNC to UK.



When you claimed that the changes make no difference unless and until their is an approved carrier you were just plain wrong Blade.



If you had just made the mistake and listened when I and others pointed it out to you 6 months ago then there would be no problem here. However what you actualy did was insist it was fact, insist DEFRA had told you it was so, over and over and counter any suggestion that you might be wrong with obfuscation, red herrings, diversion and confusion, which you continue to do. That is the problem Blade.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 15:29

Erols, please answer the following.



I have a little Cyprus dog, i walk into a vet and ask for advice about taking my dog to the UK.

They will give me a name and number of a person who can help me get a EU pet passport.



1. a) Are the TRNC issuing EU pet passports now.? b) Are the TRNC faking EU pet passport now? c) Are they coming from elsewhere?



2. If you are entering the UK legally on third country/TRNC paperwork, why would i be being directed to get an EU pet passport?



3. Why would i need to wait three months if i have an EU pet passport? DEFRA say 21 days from 1st rabies jab?



3. As there is no authorised route or carrier from the TRNC, when you turn up in the UK with your third country/TRNC paperwork how is it your saying your dog got from the TRNC to the UK without these?

a) Dr Who's tardis delivered them. b) Scotty beamed you up from the Starship Enterprise. c) Ali Baba dropped them off with his flying carpet. d) with an EU pet passport?

Whistler


Joined: 28/07/2008
Posts: 1332

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 15:52

This thread is now getting out of hand (in my opinion). It is only confusing folks more and causing more stress than is necessary.

iceman


Joined: 15/08/2008
Posts: 724

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 16:12

All EU passports are obtained from the south..full stop.

All the blood samples are taken by the vets here and sent to the south to be sent to UK labs from there because the vets here are not approved by either the lab or DEFRA in UK..

So,although everything migth look legit,in reality it is not, because authorities are made to belive the animals being tested are in the south!!



(i believe people are being charged as much as 350€ for a blood test + EU passport)

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 16:59

Whistler, i was acused of being Shameless.



Just wanted to highlight in not to much detail the so called legit way.

Its a shame people are being told all is ok and legit when its not.



But then i did ask Erols to leave it while he was still infront.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 18:23

You do NOT NEED an EU PET PASSPORT ffs. Goto the drfra website and READ IT.

to quote



"What you need to do if you are entering the UK from unlisted non-EU countries"



"To bring your dog, cat or ferret into (or back into) the UK, it must be accompanied either by an EU pet passport or third country official veterinary certificate."



What part of OR third country offical veterinary certificate do you not understand ?



This is INSTEAD of of an EU passport. BEFORE the change you had to get an Eu pet passport from the south. NOW SINCE THE CHANGE you DO NOT HAVE TO DO THIS. You can get (from petcross for example) third country (TRNC) offical veterinary certificate, that meets the UK requirments and is in fact a cheaper and quciker and easier and totaly legitimate option vs say getting an EU pet passport in the South.



The same is true of all the other requirments listed on the DEFRA site - microchip, vacination, blood test , tapeworm etc.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 18:34

This is the case ONLY BECAUSE OF THE CHANGES made by the UK as of 1.1.2012 before these changes you could NOT DO THIS and is regardless of their not being an prroved carrier (yet) from the TRNC to UK. That is why your insistance that the changes make no difference unless their is an approved carrier are just incorrect. For gods sake it is all there in back and white on the defra website as plain as can be.



As for the tree months you are YET AGAIN talking nonsense and just confusing the issue. Read the defra website, its all there plain and clear. For the vacination requirment there is a 21 day 'wait' for animals traveling from an EU or listed country under a pet passport. But animals going legitimately from the TRNC are NO DOING THIS. again from defra webstie.



"From 1 January 2012, there is a wait of 21 days from the date of the first rabies vaccination before a pet can enter or re-enter the UK if you are travelling from an EU or a listed non-EU country."



[cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 18:39

a bit further down the site says



"For pets entering the UK from unlisted countries, different rules apply. After your pet has been vaccinated, it must be blood tested to make sure the vaccine has worked and then serve out a three month waiting period."



The TRNC is for these purposes an UNLISTED COUNTRY and thus there is a 3 MONTH wait.



From 6 months ago you have misunderstood what the changes mean and dspite every effort to politely point out to you this is the case by me and others you have barged on relentlessly asserting as fact things that are totaly incorrect.



The fudging of EU pet passports for animals going from the TRNC and then meeting the requirments for animals traveling under such documentation what was was necessary BEFORE the UK change. Since it you do not need to do any of this fudging or travel under an EU pet passport documentation or requirments. You do it all legitimate under the documentation and requirments as comming from an unlisted country.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 18:49

It is all here on the defra website.



http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/travel/pets/pet-owners/



The section you need to read is the "What you need to do if you are entering the UK from unlisted non-EU countries" because as far as defra is concerned the TRNC in this regard counts as an unlisted non-EU country"



The requirments are



1. microchipped , can be done here totaly legitimately

2.vaccinated, can be done here totaly legitimately, requires a three month wait.

3.blood test, can be done here to meet the requirment that it is sent to an approved EU laboratory totaly legitimately

4 Get pet travel documentation, can be done here totaly legtimately and it is NOT a EU pet pasport but is an official third country veterinary certificate

5.Tapeworm treatment, can be done here totaly legitimately and entered totaly legitimately on the third country vet certificate

6. Arrange for your animal to travel with an approved transport company on an authorised route

[cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 18:55

there is no authorised carrier that goes direct from the TRNC to the UK. So until there is, having completed and meet requirments in step 1-5 your option it to go from here legtimately to a third country that does have an approved carrier and then enter the UK via that carrier with all the documentation from steps one to 5. This is TOTALY legitimate and before the UK changes it was not possible to do this. Before the changes and ONLY before them did you need to look at 'fudging' an EU passport and make it appear that the animl was comming from an EU country. Now it is NOT NECESSARY, you simply need to meet the requirments for entry from an unlisted non-EU country. The third country can be ANY country that has an approved carrier to the UK and the use of the third country is ONLY necessary because of the lack of an approved carrier that goes direct from the TRNC to UK and for no other reason.



[cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 19:03

I know there are vets still here in the TRNC that are mistakenly advising people to get a 'fudged' EU pet passport (not Petcross who are giving the correct advise) their advise is bad. This is NOT necessary ANY MORE.



Which third country you use is primarily down to cost and what the requirments are to move the animal from TRNC to that country and things like do yopu want to accompany the animal or not. You can legitimately move the animal, having completed steps 1-5 , to any number of third countries to then be able to meet step 6. Cost is primarily down to have the approved carrier in the thrid country you choose handles carrage. Some will allow small animals in the cabin under certain conditions, some will allow them to ravel in the hold as execess baggae and some will insit they travel as cargo which is the most expensive option. [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 19:09

Which thrid country is down to you but the use of a third country is ONLY to meet the requiment number 6 on the defra rules and NOTHING to do with trying to avoid or bypass or circumvent or fudge the other 5 requirements which can all be done TOTALY LEGTIMATELY in the TRNC. Whichever third country you use for this will have in addition its own requirments for entry into it but these are the same as they were before the UK changes, nothing has changed in that reagrd. So most commonly used third countries would be Germany, France and Turkey. You could legitimately enter these countries BEFORE the UK changes and can still do so now in exactly the same manner in order to then go onto the UK via an approved carrier. But the third country could be ANY country that a) allows you to take an animla from TRNC to it and b) has an aproved carrier from it to the UK.

the2ofus


Joined: 13/02/2008
Posts: 637

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 19:17

erolz

Thank you and 10 out of 10 for perseverence . It would be easier trying to explain to a 5 year old why they MUST eat veg !!!!! than explain the new regs to some people on here.

Talk about not being able to see the wood for the trees .

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 19:18

dont understand whats the fuss about,and quite frankly I dont give a damn.I love my animals and they come with me weherever I go.How is not relevant.What does it matter as long as you manage to take your pets with you.



I watched the kennel owners being interviewed over the latest changes in requirements on bbc.They were simply complaining about them.WHY?Answer is simple..........LOSS OF BUSSINESS.



It seems to be no different here.People trying to protect their livelyhood.and as much as I understand and respect that,I WILL do whatever I can to get my animals to their destination with minimal distress.Everyone else can go and whistle.I love my animals and no RULE will get in my way.Remember,rules are made for breaking them.

I have read defra's website and spoken to officials,in black and white.

So,please while you are telling people what you want them to know,bear in mind that us,joe the publics,also have mind oof our own.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 19:23

Blade as far as I am concerned you have personaly and unecessarily caused more confusion and uncertainty about the issue of what the changes made by the the UK on the 1.1.2012 would and now do mean than any other person. The confusion and uncertainty that you have so vociferously spread has casued real world distress to real people. You have spread it with consistency and arrogance of the certainty that you were right, claiming that DEFRA an now more recently DR Mehmet of TRNC vet department say you are right, whilst all along you have in fact ben abjectely wrong. The reason I am so upset about all this is I have seen and spoken to people and seen how much distress the confusion and uncertainty YOU have caused has affected them.

If you had any integrity you would aknowledged publicaly that you were wrong and appolgise, not to me but to those who have been distressed as a result of the confusion you have created.

[cont]

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 19:24

msg 49,the2ofus;



I second your comments 100%.



and of course,thank you for your time to explain in black and white 'erolz'.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 19:28

However Blade I do not think you will aknowledge you were and are wrong and appologise. I think you will probably continue to try an insist that you are right and in the process sow yet more confusiuon and yet more uncertainty and thus be personaly reposnsible for yet more real world distress to real people all in an effort to protect your own ego and continue to try and create an impression in others that you are an 'expert'. You will do so I think regradless of the additional distress doing so will cause to people and despite it, though nothing would make me happier than if you proved me wrong on this point.



As I said before Blade you are shameless.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 19:35

@ the2ofus and yorgozlu.



Thanks. Now I know I can be bloody minded and can argue the toss about nothing with the best of them, my bloody mindeness on this particular issue is not just down to that however. I have personaly met people who were looking to move animals either in the months leading up to the UK changes or the months shortly after and spoken with them and seen first hand how much real distress and upset the confusion and uncertainty caused by Blades incorrect assertions have caused. I am also in little doubt that for each one I have personaly met and spoken with there must be many others I have not who have sufferd as well as a result and it upsets me deeply because it just was not necessary. Many have tried to correct Blade and explain to her here, politely why she was not correct, not just me, over the last 6 months all to no avail.

Whistler


Joined: 28/07/2008
Posts: 1332

Message Posted:
09/01/2012 20:24

Blade. Message 41.





*Just wanted to highlight in not to much detail the so called legit way.



Its a shame people are being told all is ok and legit when its not. *



You must apprecaite it IS ok. You are obviously unable to read and inwardly digest what is written on the DEFRA website. It is quite clear and simple. Erol and many others are quite right in what they say.

My animals will be going back and it will not be illegal. Please stop trying to upset and confuse people.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 14:57

You guys rearly are like sheep. In the time you have been here you haven't learnt that much.



How is it your going to explain how your pets got from A to B without an approved carrier or route.?



Erols, i have many customers who have gone down the route with Girne vets, so please don;t tell me what they are telling people to do.



I would also like to ask you Erols what personal experience you have with importing and exporting animals from and to the TRNC? Or elsewhere?

Remembering it was i who brought the first dog across the greenline from south to north legally. My friends ship their show dogs around the world. My import contact is actually part of animalair. I have two close friends who are qualified vets in the UK. And last but not least i have shipped dogs in and out of the TRNC.

My advice would be not to listen to shamless people here or follow the sheep.Take your pet back with a registered, insured, qualified , approved carrier. End of story.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 15:16

So my prediction in msg53 was right then, how sad :( Having already caused so much confusion and uncertainty and the distress that in turn has caused people people, you would rather continue to add even more to that than admit you were and are wrong. Shameless.



To answer your question you do not have to explain how your pets got from the TRNC to a third country that has an approved carrier to the UK. What you have to do is meet the requirments as clearly laid out on the defra website. This is what the whole change the UK has made is ALL ABOUT. DEFRA do not 'care' where the animal originated from. They care and require that it has met all the steps they clearly lay out on the website are met. The carrier reequirments is not about ensuring the animal does not get rabies on route, steps one to 5 ensure that. It is about ensuring it is transported properly by a carrier they know has the facilites to do that and handle it properly at the UK end. [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 15:29

As to what my personal experience is with importing and exporting animals from the TRNC, that is irrelevant. All you need is to read the DEFRA website and understand it properly. The whole issue is about what the changes made by the UK that have only been in force now for 10 days mean to people taking their anaimls from here to the UK mean and require. However for the record I have, through my partner and via that through KAR I have been 'involved' in countless animals leaving the TRNC for other countries. Form the collection of necessary paperwork, to getting at at 4am and phsyicaly taking the anaimal to the ariport and having it processed there and much lese besides. Literaly hundreds of animals over many years. I have seen the affect of the changes from when you could take them to the UK from here before the RoC's accession to the EU, to no longer being about to do totaly legitimately through to now where you can again because of the changes as of the 1.1.2012 [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 15:36

I could add that the years of work my partner has done moving anaimals from the TRNC has all been done not as part of any commercial business, but as a volanter for no personal monetary gain what so ever, unlike some.

My advise to anyone wishing to take an animal to the UK from here is to just ignore anything Blade says. Visit the DEFRA website yourself and read the requirments for "What you need to do if you are entering the UK from unlisted non-EU countries". If you are unsure about anything email DEFRA. Ask them if I have completed setps 1-5 in a country that does not have an approved carrier and can then get my animal from that country to a third country that does, is that a valid way to bring my animal into the UK. Speak to KAR, the non commercial, non profit charity that has moved more animals from this country than onyone for a longer period of time than anyone. Speak to Petcross. Whatever you do do not listen to Blade.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
10/01/2012 16:12

Yes, read the DEFRA website and also the email sent to me on the 1-12-2011 that there is no approved route or carrier from the TRNC at present.



Erols in the past two weeks i have had at least three lots of people come to me as you are not convincing them. They are wondering like me why they are having to go and get passports.? Your telling people thats not the case, so why has it been for the last 6 months thats not the advice you and your friends have been giving people? And you have been preparing them with passports?? Fact. So they have been paying out for passports your now telling them they don't need? Great advice that,lol.



Commercial gain is irrelevant, i work with proffessionals not wannabee's. The benefits of the people i work with is they make things happen when others have given up.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
11/01/2012 00:55

Blade, you email asks explicitly about an approved route from TRNC to the UK and as we all know there is not an approved route direct from the TRNC to the UK, becaause there is no approved carrier, yet. That does NOT mean however that you can not perfectly legaly do all the paperwork here and perfectly legaly go to the UK not direct from here but via a third that does have an approved route.



I have no doubt that people are asking you because you have created an enviromnment of totaly confusion when there did not need to be one. If they are going to get EU pet passports for travel after the 1.1.2012 then they have been getting bad advise and as you have already said you can not get an EU pet passport for a TRNC animal in a totaly legitmate manner. You just do not need an EU pet passport, just READ THE DEFRA WEBSITE.



I do not know who you think 'my friends' are but the people I do know who are giving the same correct advise as I am. I am aware but do not know of a person [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
11/01/2012 01:01

who has for some time now been offering a commercial service to help people obtain EU pet passports for their animals, mainly through adverts on this board but from a few other sources. This person is nothing to do with me. I am aware of at least one vet who is still advising people to go down this not totaly legit route, that costs more than the now possible legit one in terms of paper work and testing as wel who works 'with' this other person. I also know that the KAR convoy animals have not got 'dodgy' EU pet passports and will be leaving soon for thier totaly legit trip to the UK, under their totaly legit papaerwork from the TRNC to the UK despite there still being no approved carrier / route that goes direct yet and when they arrive you are going to look pretty silly I think. I am also aware of several indivduals who have either already done the transfer to the UK from here, uusing the paperwork now allowed under the changed UK rules (ie not fudged EU pet passport)

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
11/01/2012 01:09

THose that have gone already or are soon to go, were preparing from at leat 3 months before now to meet the 3 month wait period. As more and more people travel legitimately from here to the TRNC to the UK using legit local paperwork and travelling via a thrid country that has an approed carrier until there is one that can go direct from here you are going to look more and more silly in insisiting it cannot be done, but you have made your bed not me. As soon as it started to become clear that getting a 'dodgy' EU passport for your pet via the south was not going to be necessary my partner who had advised people who sought it (for free) before that explained to them why it was not necessary post the UK changes. All I have done is try and share that information here in the face of your incorrect assertions as it became clearer and clearer what the situation is.



You may work with professionals, they may make things happen but that does not change the fact [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
11/01/2012 01:14

You have been making assertions here about what the UK changes mean to people that want to move animals that are just not correct and that despite this being pointed out to you and explained to you countless times by many people you continue and still continue to give out bad and incorrect information regardless. When the KAR convoy arrives in the UK it will have been shown beyond any possible doubt that this is the case though no doubt you still just continue to insist you were never wrong and sow yet more confusion and uncertainty and cause yet more unecessary distress to people. As another poster here used to say. Tick Tock.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
11/01/2012 01:21

Oh and by the way Blade, to state as fact that I and my 'friends' have been telling people for the last 6 months that for travel to the UK from here they must get a 'fudged' EU passport via the south for their animals is in fact defamatory. It is just not true, unless friends actualy means people I do not know and I does not mean me. Does it suprise me that as the the clock ticks closer and closer to you being shown as having been so abjectely wrong so consistnently and so persisintly and so beligereatly in the face of so many others who have tried time and again to correct you, you are now resorting to just pure lies about me as a person (and unanmed 'firends')? Not really.



Tick Tock.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
11/01/2012 13:38

Blade just to prove that your defamatory claim in msg60 that I and my 'friends' have been for the last 6 months been advising people to get an EU pet passport via the south is in fact just a downright lie have a look that this thread

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/67865.asp

msg 30 by me from 9th July 2011

"Spanna, yes, as far as I understand this, it can though its not specificaly a 'pet passport' it would need. The requirments would be, from 1st Jan 2012 "

From six months ago I was explicilty saying that its not an EU pet passport you will need but the specific documentation on the DEFRA site for animals in a non EU unlisted country. Also read my message 22 in that thread.

The truth is blade as soon as it was apparent that you would no longer need an EU pet passort post the UK changes, that is what I was 'advising' people, as it became clear and more certain so I advise that was the case. [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
11/01/2012 13:42

I am not the one who has been (erronously) advising people for the last 6 months that post the UK changes its not necessary to get an EU pet passport via the south, and I can show documentary evidence that I have advised exactly the opposite. Yet now you claim as 'fact' that I and my friends have been advising people to get pet passports in the South. It is not true.



Shall we talk about what you have been advising people to do for the last 6 months Blade ?



Tick Tock.