property purchase

birdlife


Joined: 22/11/2007
Posts: 4

Message Posted:
23/11/2007 19:14

Hi All,we are newcomers on the block looking to move (retiring) to NC in process of property searching,we have been offerred a new build by Sercem estates on TMD land just wandering if anyone had any suggestions comments etc,

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
23/11/2007 21:11

personally would not touch tmd land....but this has to be a personal choice. There is loads of info about different title deeds do your homework before you commit. Never heard of Sercem Estates but you could check with the HBPG to see if they have any recommendatins or not. Read all the previous sites there are some good recommendations for solicitors and builders. Consider buying a resale... you will be getting exactly what you see. Good luck

TUNALI I CON


Joined: 16/11/2007
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
24/11/2007 08:37

Hello birdlife.If you want to buy a villas in North Cyprus you can check our villas in Ozankoy.They nearly finish and all the substructure have been done.4 bedrroms 3 bathrooms large garden.It's close to new LEMAR.We are a construction company about 31 years with no problems with our customer.If you do not any problem you can call us when ever you want.



info@tunaliinsaat.com

http://www.tunaliinsaat.com



My gsm is 0533 863 49 03 Ceyhun TUNALI



I will wait your call

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
24/11/2007 18:51

I echo the comments of Bradus about TMD land. Although the TRNC government now classifies it in the same category as Esdeger, I personally feel it carries a greater risk

birdlife


Joined: 22/11/2007
Posts: 4

Message Posted:
24/11/2007 19:20

just curious guys ,how many people are sitting in homes built on TMD land,and does anyone have a comment on the statements made in the press by the TRNC minister that all british bought property whether land or house is guarateed by the TRNC government ?,just dont want to mess up my retirement,

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
24/11/2007 19:39

If you need certainty that what you are buying, will be completely safe with 100% internationally recognised title deeds then you need to look at only pre 74 Turkish Title deeds. Your guess is as good as everyone elses as to what will happen in the future with the land dispute.Pre 74 tend to be slightly more expensive but only you can decide if the risk is worth it. Check this link so that you can compare Turkish title deeds with exchange and tmd.



http://www.north-cyprus-properties-landmark.com/

gazza


Joined: 15/05/2007
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
24/11/2007 23:18

hi everyone

we have brought on pre 74 turkish title deeds land, at aphrodite guzelyurt ,mainly because we liked the area and the apartments were well priced we were told by our agents they are on pre 74 title so it made us feel more confident if the agents say this can we accept this as gospel ?

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
24/11/2007 23:41

No, I'm afraid you cannot

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
24/11/2007 23:44

Guzelyurt (Morphou) was an almost entirely Greek Cypriot community. According to the 1960 population census it was inhabited by 6480 Greeks Cypriots, 123 Turkish Cypriots and 32 Maronites.



Therefore I'd be surprised if any of the land was Pre 74 Turkish title.

orangekazzie



Joined: 31/07/2007
Posts: 1091

Message Posted:
25/11/2007 00:40

Gazza I'd suggest you get your solicitor to confirm the status of your title deeds as to whether its pre-74 or exchange. I agree with Lovingcyprus that I understood most of Guzelyurt was Greek as was most of the areas where properties are being built.

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
25/11/2007 01:26

You are right, the town of Guzelyurt was mostly populated by GCs. But there was also Turkish Cypriot presence in the surrounding area as there was TC presence in most parts of the island before 1963 when TCs were forced to leave more than 100 villages for safer ghettos.



Gaziveren(Gaziveran pre74) for example was a solely Turkish Cypriot village pre74 and i guess this property is near that village as far as the address for the property on some websites is taken into account.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
25/11/2007 12:50

My understanding is that Guzelyurt (Morphou) and the surrounding area was going to be given back to the Greek Cypiots as part of the Annan Plan. This would have enabled a very large number of GC's to go back to their properties. As usual the GC's voted against the plan. Even though this area was almost exclusively populated by GC's, there is no reason why parts of this area were not TC owned, and no reason why the Evergreen site is not pre 74 TC.

Probbaly in response to the GC rejection of the plan, it looks like the TRNC is pumping money in to this area, hence the new road from Lefkosia.



In hindsight, my comments about TMD land probably doesn't carry much water. In GC eyes they make no distinction between Esdeger and TMD so the risk is probably paralled. The TRNC governement have grouped the two together and called it Freehold and have made a guarantee on it's purchase. Not sure if this guarantee covers muc weight. I couldn't see any reference to it on the governments official property website (unless I missed it)



Just a side note there were some interesting comments in the Economist this week. It seems that all EU countries are in support of Kosovos independence, although it has been stated that there is one country, who will object to the very last, guess who - the Republic Of Cyprus. You coud say they are looking after their own interests. An independent Kosovo weakens their case.



There was also an advert by HSBC Bank promoting inverstment in Turkey. I thought there were some interesting points:

*Average age of population is 29

*400,000 university graduates every year

*Exports increeased by 240% in 4 years, up to 85 billion USD as of 2006

*GDP increase of 122% i the past 4 years, reaching 400 billion USD

*Ranked the 17th largest economy in the world and 6th largets economy when compared to EU countries

*Ranked as the 13th most attractive country in the world for FDI

*Annual average GDP growth of 7.4% per year since 2002



Also noted that Politician Jack Straw has called for Turkey to join the EU and to do so quickly

gazza


Joined: 15/05/2007
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
25/11/2007 12:59

hi alasian

these properties are apparently 5 to 10 minutes walk to the town centre and are right on the coast in morphu bay we brought from north cyprus international who stated that these properties were definetly on pre 74 land .but i will check it out with my lawyers naomi mehmet have you looked at these apartments ?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
25/11/2007 14:04

hi alasian



I wonder if you can help. I have been reading Michal Stephen's book 'The Cyprus Problem'. There are a couple of things that have been niggling me.

In the book, he quotes that the Cyprus High commissioner in 1881 stated that there were only 600 Hellenic subjects on the island of Cyprus. How was it that the Hellenic prescence was able to develop so profoundly and to eventually have such influence.

Secondly, he states that under Ottoman rule the Turks and Turkish Cypriots as individuals and through their religious foundation EVKAF, owned most of the land in Cyprus. Greek Cyprriots were allowed to purchase land freely and cheaply up until the 60's.

How was it then that the TC's allowed the GC's to control the majority of land ownership?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
25/11/2007 15:26

apologies, the book is called the Cyprus question

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
25/11/2007 17:48

Hello gazza, no i have not looked at those apartments. But guzelyurt is a nice area, hence the turkish and greek names both meaning "beautiful land".



Hello ilovecyprus,

Annan plan was a huge sacrifice for us TCs, yet the GCs rejected it. It is of no surprise though, that the GCs voted no as they had already guaranteed EU membership with the stolen title Republic of Cyprus prior to the referanda. The then EU enlargement commisionar Gunther Verheugen has repeatedly expressed his regret in them, the EU policy makers guaranteeing the GCs' entry into the EU without a solution to the problem.

I agree with your observation about Guzelyurt. After the referanda, the policy makers decided to go on with the development of the area, as losing 30 years not developing an area is enough a wait and compromise.



When it comes to the esdeger(exchange) vs TMD land issue,We cannot wait for the GC intransigence to end for centuries as they have not waited when for example building the Larnaca Airport on TC land. There are so many people that have built on non TC or exchange titles that a solution to the problem should deal with this case not causing discomfort for those people. I did not know about this TRNC guarantee scheme that you have mentioned,but this is an example of what could be done.



I will do my best to help with your questions. First, by hellenic citizen, i guess the author means the citizens of Greece not the Greek Cypriots. The population of TCs was gretar than the GCs until mid to late 1700s. I do not have the exact book to quote with me but as far as i remember the population was roughly 55% TCs to the rest 45% being GCs. The first census after Cyprus was handed over to britain was made in early 1880s when the TC population was around 25%, it was around %18 in 1960. So the TC population largely diminished over time. Different sources attribute this to different reasons. One of the common views of TC authors is that beginning early 1800s there was a migration by greek citizens of ottoman empire into cyprus attracted by the cyprus orthodox churches land offer and at the same time the TC were motivated to hand over their land by the orthodox priests. Some other sources explain the drop in the number of TCs with many people converting to the orthodox religion due to generous land offerings or due to being crypto-orthodox.

After all it is not very clear how the TCs dropped from 55% to 25% in nearly a century, but the drop from %25 to %18 between 1878 and 1960 is clearer with reasons such as some people choosing to become turkish citizens instead of british, and some migrating to turkey after Cyprus became a colony.

The TC population continued to decrease after 1960 due to GC oppression and occupation of the Republic of Cyprus by the GC leadership. The only service of the occupied republic of Cyprus that served the TCs after 1963 was the exit visa service where the TCs were issued passports to emigrate.

After 1974, the TC population started to increase in number despite huge amounts of emigration due to international isolation. In 2006, there were 250thousand residents in TRNC of which 180 thousand were TRNC citizens.



About your land question, i think the deterioration in the amount of land the TCs owned was far greater than the deterioration in their population. EVKAF, owned lots of land(still holds a lot) and this could not be sold. But after 1878, the rules of EVKAF organisation such as the land belonging to EVKAF not being able to be sold but only to be leased were unlawfully not applied and the GCs aquired lots of EVKAF land with illegal transfers. For example, the previous head of the EVKAF of Cyprus has in the last few years proved that the closed city Varosha/Marash was built nearly entirely on EVKAF land that was illegally obtained by the GCs after 1900s.



From 1900s until 1940s, the TCs lost the control of E

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
25/11/2007 21:10

Hi Alasian

Fantastic response and so informative. I really appreciate the time and trouble you have taken to write this. This has definately gone a long long way in answering my questions. I will read this a few times to fully digest it.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
25/11/2007 21:18

I apologise birdlife for hijacking your thread. I guess it is important to understand the wider issues related to land issues. Good luck with your decision

birdlife


Joined: 22/11/2007
Posts: 4

Message Posted:
26/11/2007 13:22

Not at all ilovecyprus,all very interesting and informative

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
27/11/2007 15:08

Hello ilovecyprus,

Thank you for your kind words. I am glad that my reply was helpful. Feel free to ask for assistance again if you need,i will be glad to help.

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
27/11/2007 16:32

By the way ilovecyprus, like you said only GCs are against the independence of Kosovo. This is another subject but there is something important about the news at economist common to most of the news about cyprus in the world.



The economist does not say only the Greek Cypriots are or the GC state or South Cyprus is against the Kosovan independence but it says, Cyprus is against the Kosovan independence.



How can southern cyprus be called cyprus and seen as the representative of the whole island without the consent of the TC nation. No one asked the TC state its views about Kosova, then this cannot be the view of Cyprus but just the view of South Cyprus.



This is the pain the TC nation has been going through since 1963 occupation of the Republic of Cyprus by the Greek Cypriots. Since 1963, whenever in the international arena the word Cyprus is used, it is used for a leadership that only represents the GCs.



Even in Wikipedia entries for the peace operation in 1974, the combatants are shown as Republic of Cyprus + Greece vs Turkey. But what about the TCs that were forced to live in Medieval city walls(North Nicosia,Famagusta) or castles themselves(Like St. Hillarion) and what about the TCs being equal owners of the Real Republic of Cyprus.The real naming of the combatants should have been GCs+Greece vs TCs+Turkey as the GCs do not represent the whole Cyprus.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
28/11/2007 20:54

Hi Alasian



I am really pleased that you are writing more on this forum with all the knowledge you have. Hopefully you are less busy and will be able to continue to do so



Yes, I was annoyed that it just said Cyprus not the Republic of Cyprus. It's very frustrating to see this type of wording. It's also even more frustrating to not see the writer go further and say something like - 'well, you would expect the ROC to be the only one objecting to Kososvo within the EU because they are looking after there own interest, which is to control the whole of the island of Cyprus and they have little interest in the fate of Kososvo'



Also as Michael Stephen says, the treaty of guarantors agreed that decisions on Cyprus, could not be taken without the consent of both the GC's and TC's.



From a psychological perspective I find it really frightening that most of the world can be duped in to the GC version of events. It just shows the power of propoganda and the impact it can have on such a large scale.

I think someone said something like 'the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it' - this is so true.

gazza


Joined: 15/05/2007
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
29/11/2007 18:00

hi all



i have just had confirmation that the aphrodite site at guzelyurt being built by evergreen devolpments, has been built on pre 1974 turkish title,this has been confirmed both by evergreen and my lawyers.they have seen land registry searches showing ownership of this site back to 1954 with evidence that the land was owned by a turkish cypriot prior to military intevention of 1974 and therefore is known as pre 1974 title.

grahamlil


Joined: 10/10/2007
Posts: 143

Message Posted:
29/11/2007 18:40

gazza,



I bet you have just made a lot of people very happy.

Regards grahamlil

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
29/11/2007 18:40

congratulations gazza. You can rest easy and enjoy

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
29/11/2007 18:44

ps gazza, if the rest of us lose our esdeger or TMD properties we will be coming to stay with you

gazza


Joined: 15/05/2007
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
29/11/2007 19:09

hi ilovecyprus & grahamlil



it certainly made our day, i am sure you will all come out of it ok in the long run whatever land your places are being built on, hope all goes well for everybody, we have not been over to north cyprus yet as we brought off plan but cannot wait to see the country and our apartment.if you do lose out your welcome to stay with us we have 2 bedrooms,also 2 balconys for the camp beds. good luck to all of us.



cheers gazza

.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
29/11/2007 19:31

Thanks for the offer gazza. I do hope I don't have to take you up on it though

You were brave not seeing the place beforehand or not even visiting NC the country.

I haven't seen the Evergreen site but I have been to the Guzelyert area. It is lovely and you should be pleased

grahamlil


Joined: 10/10/2007
Posts: 143

Message Posted:
29/11/2007 20:16

Gazza,

With invites like that on the forum I think you had better exchange your property for a hotel !!!!!!



Regards grahamlil

Susie


Joined: 06/06/2007
Posts: 87

Message Posted:
30/11/2007 16:11

Buying off plan without visiting the island is certainly a brave (some might say foolish!) step.



Good Luck - its a lovely area.

DONTY


Joined: 07/06/2007
Posts: 534

Message Posted:
30/11/2007 16:31

susie



i have many buyers who buy property without visiting. some people see a good deal, the best payment plan etc and go for it before its gone. i even have buyers who call up and take a block at a time on new sites, sight unseen. these people tend to be my more wealthy clients for some reason?



they say that the wealthy people are there because they take their chances whereas the masses dont!



all power to him or her with the biggest cahunas - which on this forum happens to be our pal Gazza!

gazza


Joined: 15/05/2007
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
30/11/2007 17:17

hi donty & susie



we can asure you we are not wealthy people, but are willing to take a chance on n cyprus because it looks a lovely place, and try and get out of the rat race which is becoming england, also donty as you say the price was right and the payments are ok for us. susie you might be right we could be mad or foolish suppose time will tell, we also brought a place in la-manga spain off plan which has worked out great so we hope to be lucky again. as you say guzelyurt looks a nice spot.

gazza


Joined: 15/05/2007
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
30/11/2007 17:20

hi donty & susie



we can asure you we are not wealthy people, but are willing to take a chance on n cyprus because it looks a lovely place, and try and get out of the rat race which is becoming england, also donty as you say the price was right and the payments are ok for us. susie you might be right we could be mad or foolish suppose time will tell, we also brought a place in la-manga spain off plan which has worked out great so we hope to be lucky again. as you say guzelyurt looks a nice spot.

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
30/11/2007 18:08

Hello ilovecyprus,

Thank you, I am also glad to have had more time to write on this forum.

You are right about it being frightening that the whole world could be mislead by the Greek Cypriot propoganda. Especially in this age of mass communication, this should not have been the case. Very nice saying that you quoted, it perfectly fits with the Cyprus problem unfortunately.

gazza


Joined: 15/05/2007
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
02/12/2007 12:53

good morning all from wet and windy england.



are there any other aphrodite buyers out there at guzelyurt, if so have you been out to see your apartment and what do you think of the site and build we hope to go there early 2008 to see our place really looking forward to our visit not just to see our apartment but the country as well.

The Ratman


Joined: 09/12/2007
Posts: 4

Message Posted:
09/12/2007 19:44

I would highly recommend you buy something that is finished. I have a friend who bought a house from Sercem and paid 170,000 GBP his house was built on a ravine that was filled in and now he suffers from subsidence his pool has been repaired badly twice and they basically dont give a s##t.