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Is it really that necessary to Have the UN still here? A debate

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pinkchilli


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 689

Message Posted:
07/02/2009 21:56

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Message 1 of 22 in Discussion

I know they do a lot of good work; inc driving around the South in their nice clean vehicles, playing golf and other sports.



Seriously, they cost millions. If both sides now feel that complete chaos will break out the minute they leave, we have got a long way to go.



We have a UN patrolled Buffer Zone. If anyone wants, they can simply arrive at a crossing point with the correct documentation and go ACCROSS the Buffer Zone, (this bit, the crossing points, are not patrolled) and cause whatever chaos they want on the other side.



What is the point of a Buffer Zone, patrolled by the UN, which is crossed by thousands each day?



Just let each side control it's area either side, or reduce the UN to a level which justifies them being here.



Please debate.



Thanks.



DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
07/02/2009 22:01

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Message 2 of 22 in Discussion

RE msg 1, piunkchilli : (...) What is the point of a Buffer Zone, patrolled by the UN (...)



===> I seem to remember that "they" answered your question between 1960-74.



AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
07/02/2009 22:06

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Message 3 of 22 in Discussion

pinkchilli

A valid posting. The UN are not peace keepers they are a monitoring force and in the event of conflict they will take a neutral stance i.e. will not get involved.

In my humble opinion they are not required in Cyprus.

AJ



DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
07/02/2009 22:13

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Message 4 of 22 in Discussion

RE msg 3, AJ : (...) The UN are not peace keepers they are a monitoring force and in the event of conflict they will take a neutral stance i.e. will not get involved. (...)



===> True (although *I* wish these troops had a mandate to keep the peace with force). Now that there are no hostilities it's good they are there - to monitor. The world should never hear wrong, coloured stories from certain Cyprus sources again.



SheilaBee


Joined: 08/12/2008
Posts: 17

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 09:45

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Message 5 of 22 in Discussion

I believe they are referred to as the Useless Nations.



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 10:09

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Message 6 of 22 in Discussion

I agree that their numbers could be drastically reduced.

As they are only monitors or observers,then what are they watching?....a peace that has lasted for over 30 years?



By the same token I think that the number of Turkish troops could be drastically reduced (maybe from 40,000 to a token force of 10,000) and still be seen as a "deterrent".

This would send out a great message to the rest of the world and show Turkey's willingness to move forward towards a "Cyprus solution".



Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 10:14

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Message 7 of 22 in Discussion

I sugest you talk to some of the UN lads you will be suprised how much mediation work they do there are incidents to deal with mostly each side encroaching .

Then they have to live in Ledra palce a building in which very little works.

they are a stabilising medium here and should remain.

As regards cost ROC pays a substantial amount.



pinkchilli


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 689

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 12:38

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Message 8 of 22 in Discussion

Encroachment. If one side got too close, the other would soon let them know!



How much longer will this go on? Having a mediator after 34+ years.



Sure, lets keep some, but the mediation could be done in an office by some desk personnel.



Just because the UN is here, seems to allow both sides to behave as if "there is always a teacher nearby" (referring to school playground disputes).



Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 12:47

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Message 9 of 22 in Discussion

pinkchilli,



The UN force in Cyprus is the longest and most successful peacekeeping mission in the world. Civilians deserve and demand protection in any place where neither side is to be entirely trusted.



Your glib remarks about golf and nice cars would suggest you have no military or peacekeeping experience. Rest assured that the UN soldiers, particularly in the potential flashpoint suburban Nicosia districts, are far superior and better trained troops than most of the Turkish and Greek conscript troops.



Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 12:50

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Message 10 of 22 in Discussion

msg 3 KaravasJack:



"The UN are not peace keepers they are a monitoring force..."



Which will be why they are called peacekeepers and not monitors - an entirely different duty with an entirely different mandate.



Did you get your information from some of your Turkish settler chums at the coffee shop?



redtom


Joined: 30/12/2008
Posts: 116

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 13:06

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Message 11 of 22 in Discussion

Yes we do still need a peace keeping force UN . Untill there is n agreement that the mainland greeks who control the army in the south leave this Island.



deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 14:05

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Message 12 of 22 in Discussion

mees 6 read this. Security, and the roles of Turkey and Greece

19. It is estimated that there are between 21,000 and 24,000 Turkish soldiers in the North

of Cyprus with commanders from mainland Turkey. There are also 3,000 Turkish Cypriot

2 See paras 8486 below.

8 Visit to Cyprus

soldiers on the island. The civilian population of northern Cyprus is only 200,000, so the

ratio of troops to civilians is very high, making it one of the most militarised places in the





House of Commons

Foreign Affairs Committee

Visit to Cyprus

world.

20. In the south are the Cyprus National Guard which is a force 12,500 strong, backed up

by 60,000 reservists. Most of its commanders are from mainland Greece.



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 14:29

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Message 13 of 22 in Discussion

Dear Dee re msg 12



Can we have a link to this report to the HoC.. I think they got the number of TR troops wrong by a factor of 40-50% and the reservist of the National Guard by 50-100%



Fit men, who are RoC citizens / born in the RoC ( govt controlled areas) are required to do national service for two years and are reservists up to mid fifties..



so assuming out of - 650K population - this covers ( being charitable) 40 % of 50% .. this makes me wonder about the cred of your figures..



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 14:38

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Message 14 of 22 in Discussion

Re msg 3



Hi Dave.. if they aren't "peace keepers" someone should tell THEM ..



Quoting UN website - note the date and heading ! ;)



"United Nations Peacekeeping Force in Cyprus Sunday, 8 February, 2009



UNFICYP

Background



UNFICYP was set up in 1964 to prevent further fighting between the Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot communities. After the hostilities of 1974, The Mission's responsibilities were expanded. UNFICYP remains on the island to supervise ceasefire lines, maintain a buffer zone and undertake humanitarian activities."



The number of incidents across the cease-fire line has reduced - and the need for UN humanitarian missions - to deliver food, etc, to the enclaved GCs in the Karpas(sa) peninsula has reduced - as Turkey opened the crossing points in 2003.

As Hippo points out, the UN guys don't live in the nicest accommodation so I think PC may have some "unusual ideas" about this "luxurious" lifestyle...

The "rump" RoC constantly ask for the Brits to be re



deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 14:43

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Message 15 of 22 in Discussion

mess 13 http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmfaff.htm



deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 14:44

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Message 16 of 22 in Discussion

read that hopes it helps mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm



AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 14:50

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Message 17 of 22 in Discussion

There has only been one peacekeeping force on the the Island of Cyprus and yes you guessed! The Turkish Army.



deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 19:31

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Message 18 of 22 in Discussion

no answer mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm



BigBen


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 150

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 19:47

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Message 19 of 22 in Discussion

UN peacekeeping force, was needed 1963 to1974, unfortunetly they could not keep the peace, thats why the turkish peackeeping force came on the 20th July 1974. Now we have peace for 35 years. No need to have UN.



juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 21:27

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Message 20 of 22 in Discussion

msg19



so Turkey need 40.000 troops to keep the peace on the north of Cyprus!!! well there not doing a good job about keeping the crooks out are they!! (ie, GARY ROB to name a few!) they have no interest what so ever about the tcs.......



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 22:45

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Message 21 of 22 in Discussion

Dear Dee re msg 15

Thanks for the links..



The actual links are ( html) :

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmfaff/196/19602.htm



pdf:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmfaff/113/113.pdf



It is what I would expect - a report that "sits on the fence" - not upsetting either "side" - hoping for a successful conclusion to talks..



So, it omits to mention the ECHR findings against TR re "loss of use of properties", the Orams Court case - but interestingly mentions the IPC - which I keep telling GCs they should have been "testing" .



Still say the figures re the military - both for TR troops and GC national Gurard reserves are WAY under stated - particularly the GC national guard "reserves" - basically every fit, able-bodied male !



T'other interesting thing was the poor attitude of "TRNC" re illegal immigrants.. and non cooperation of "TRNC police" with the UK SBA Police.



Dee, I've had a lovely family day..thx 4 asking m



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
08/02/2009 23:05

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Message 22 of 22 in Discussion

OK ..back to the UN..what the UK says- anybody find the word "border" here ?! ;)



The United Nations Peacekeeping Force in Cyprus (UNFICYP) was established in 1964 under Security Council Resolution 186, with the mandate to prevent a recurrence of fighting between the Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot communities and to contribute to the maintenance and restoration of law and order and a return to normal conditions. Following the hostilities of 1974, the Security Council adopted a number of resolutions expanding the mandate of UNFICYP to include supervising a de facto ceasefire, which came into effect on 16 August 1974, and maintaining a buffer zone between the lines of the Cyprus National Guard and of the Turkish and Turkish Cypriot forces.



UNFICYP's main objective is to "dominate" the buffer zone. ..



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