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No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 11:01

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Message 1 of 26 in Discussion

Should we make the unemployed work for their dole money?



Does receiving unemployment benefit for doing nothing make individuals too reliant on the state and encourage laziness? Or,



is it demeaning to the poor and unemployed, who will be deemed to be treated as slave labour?



TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 11:07

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Message 2 of 26 in Discussion

The problem with working for benefits is, what happens to the people who were paid to do that work?

If you get unemployed people to sweep the streets, the street sweepers we have now become redundant and we have to pay them the dole instead. You can't "invent" work from thin air and if there is real work that needs doing you should employ someone to do it.



Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 11:10

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Message 3 of 26 in Discussion

Hi Bill I think a lot are in that situation not by choice now, I know my son has gone into a real depression looking for a job. He would love to get out of the house and what they get for job seekers you cant live on. So I guess the do demean these poor people. xxx



No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 11:16

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Message 4 of 26 in Discussion

Vaughan, Do you think receiving unemployment benefit for doing nothing makes individuals too reliant on the state and encourages apathy and laziness; particularly of the long-term unemployed and of those who have never had a paying job since leaving school?



Doesn't tying benefit money to productive work challenge these something-for-nothing assumptions and show that the state has a right to ask for something in return for the generosity of its taxpayers?



No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 11:17

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Message 5 of 26 in Discussion

Lilli, sorry to hear about your Son. I'm sure there are a lot of other forum members who are going through the same with their children. I hope he finds something soon.



Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 11:31

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Message 6 of 26 in Discussion

thank you Bill we are all hoping he gets something soon. I do agree with you about the people who know how to milk the system though. It does make me cross that they do not work one day but expect everything and get it.



TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 11:35

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Message 7 of 26 in Discussion

No1Doyen,



Allowing the long term unemployed to do nothing is not an option. Giving them productive work to do is difficult, as I have said above, without taking it away from someone else.

There must be a case where meaningful retraining for jobs that are presently available (if there are any) is given. Failing this there may be something to be said for classes in civics perhaps, at least this will require folks to get out of the house and attend.



Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 11:54

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Message 8 of 26 in Discussion

Whether it's seen as unpaid work or not I think the unemployed should be offered all the skills training available, esp if they come from a depressed area e.g. former mining or steel towns.



No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 12:00

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Message 9 of 26 in Discussion

I agree with you on this one Macha.



ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 12:02

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Message 10 of 26 in Discussion

Vaughan



There are endless opportunities for work without risking real jobs. Work that might give benefit claimants a feeling of contact and inclusion in Society without being demeaning.



Many Charities are crying out for unpaid volunteers, an animal rescue centre near me can never get enough volunteers.



Battersea Dogs Home?

Helping Homeless Charities?

Manning Soup Kitchens?

Helping Meals on Wheels?



There must be hundreds more that could make claimants feel part of society without it feeling like 'Community Service'.



Rob



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 12:05

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Message 11 of 26 in Discussion

i do think that all mums have the right to spend time with their kids until they are of school age.

putting pressure on them to work is wrong.

my problem is those young girls who have a baby so they can get benefits, not have to work and are given a council house.

again those genuine sick or disabled people should not be made to work, but how many of them are that ill/disabled to work rearly?

i think if you are out of work with skills then you should be asked to do charity work.

if you have no skills then you should be sent for re training or education.

i also think some people are too fussy.

a friend of ours a barrister was out of work, he worked in a pub kitchen cooking until he found a suitable job.



spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 12:35

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Message 12 of 26 in Discussion

when Mr spider was out of work due to an opp.he was given 6.50.!!

and yes he would have worked but for the opp..had never claimed befor and after that never again..i have always said any one able,and claims should keep the parks clean,plenty round town to do.and if they dont turn up No pay.!!

give most.the ones out of school,a year in the Army.less drinking on the streets.and scratching of cars for a laugh.



No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 12:37

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Message 13 of 26 in Discussion

....when Mr spider was out of work due to an opp.he was given 6.50.!!......



Yes but he only had a web to keep. )))



Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 12:47

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Message 14 of 26 in Discussion

Mentoring is another idea. To me there's nothing better than passing on your skills to help someone else and helping to foster some enthusiasm. For a lot of unemployed and young people it's their self-confidence that needs a boost. If they can see that someone believes in them and wants to help them, it can make a tremendous difference to them.



I'm a great believer in work placements. If unemployed people as well as students and school leavers can be given the chance of hands-on commercial or industrial experience it makes them feel part of a team and valued. For the jobless they need to regain their confidence and for the young they need to build confidence. By valuing them and treating them as equals you will help shape a confident and more self-assured person.



A few years ago I called the BBC as part of my job and got put through to the senior producer. We chatted for a while then she said: "Do you remember me?" and I replied: "Sorry, no but your name rings a bell."



more...



Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 12:49

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Message 15 of 26 in Discussion

She then said: "I sat beside you in a newsroom for two weeks while I was on work experience. You were the one who inspired me to become a journalist." It was so unexpected that it moved me to tears there and then. So I learned a lesson too!



No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 13:19

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Message 16 of 26 in Discussion

See Macha, you are an inspiration to others!



Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 13:52

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Message 17 of 26 in Discussion

Msg 2. Put the unemployed on a plane to NC and let them sweep up the streets there.



Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 13:54

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Message 18 of 26 in Discussion

Why dont we bring back the work house?



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 14:54

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Message 19 of 26 in Discussion

macha

i don't disagree but i think a lot depends on the young people.

we use to employ lots of people school leaver and a little older age group.

i found most of them to be untrustworth, rude and lazy.

they don't seem to have the same values as the older age group.

i can remember one time the saturday girl told me to make her a cup of tea!

i guess being the boss is not all its cracked up to be.

she didn't last long.



viking


Joined: 09/10/2008
Posts: 36

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 16:21

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Message 20 of 26 in Discussion

My hubby was made redundant at Christmas, and he has applied for everything that is going, from seasonal work, to temp, to permanent, when he went for his interview for job seekers allowance the young man behind the desk, said apply for everything but at your age don't be to hopeful, my hubby is 64 and has worked since he was 14, so I think his chances of landing a job whatever it is is zero,



MimoMar


Joined: 26/01/2009
Posts: 150

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 17:15

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Message 21 of 26 in Discussion

There are many thousands of people in hospital who need help with personal hygiene, a newspaper, errands running, someone to talk to, etc.

There are many thousands of elderley citizens who live alone, needing help with household chores, grass cutting, laundry, etc.

The young unemployed should be re-trained to do some good in the community.

If they refuse, National Service is another alternative.

Build more prisons and jail the criminals. Single mothers on benefit (Massive Tax Burden) - train them as child minders and get half of them looking after the other half's children and put the 'other half' to work.

Anyone still unemployed, should be sent to the houses of Parliament and made an MP - they couldn't do worse! Anyone that fails that, should be sent to the Royal Bank of Scotland and HBOS.

If they fail RBS and HBOS, stick them on a flight to NC and give them a job as an Estate Agent or, Builder's Labourer.



kenny b


Joined: 12/09/2008
Posts: 211

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 17:46

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Message 22 of 26 in Discussion

I am very fortunate that at the age of 48 I have never been unemployed since leaving school at 16 At one time I never bothered that people received benefit for staying at home be that unemployment or sickness benefit. But recent events have hardened my attitude.I get screwed by greedy bankers at the top of the gravy train and I get screwed by the lazy that sit on their backsides why I go out to work of course their are genuine cases and I have real sympathy with them my close friends are mainly self employed in the construction industry and they are going through tough times and I genuinely hope they can come through it.Its my taxes that will bail out the banks and my taxes that pay the benefit of the knife wheelding yobs that roam our streets at night putting the fear of god into decent law abiding citizens.NO WORK NO BENEFIT sorry if I offend anyone but thats how I feel.



MimoMar


Joined: 26/01/2009
Posts: 150

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 17:52

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Message 23 of 26 in Discussion

Kenny b

Don't be sorry. You are right !

'Middle England' is carrying the weight !



Macha


Joined: 18/01/2009
Posts: 650

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 18:01

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Message 24 of 26 in Discussion

fire starter,



The attitude of the individuals concerned is of prime importance, I agree. I was really only counting the ones who wanted to be helped and to learn.



The first question I asked the work experience kids was: "If you want to be a journalist and work with the media I'll do all I can to help you, if not I'll show you where all our back issues are and you can just sit and read the papers." And I did get one like that!



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 19:21

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Message 25 of 26 in Discussion

macha

you had a better class of kids applying i guess.



what makes me angry with the benefits system is some of the so called sick just get paid, and others like my dad when the disc's in his back crumbled was not disabled enough to get anything for two years, and after appeal.

his doctors went crazy but they still wouldn't listen.

the assylum seeker walks in and gets the lot, benefits, medical treatment and a house.



Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
06/03/2009 19:24

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Message 26 of 26 in Discussion

The benefit system has been stremlined and is a necessary safety net for those that have fallen on hard times, unfortunatly the system is an easy target for those who wish to abuse it. Benefit should only go to those who have contributed to the system for a given period and should be stopped once the paid in ammount is returned to the claiment. Those who cannot support themselves should be given basic accomodation and paid with vouchers, this way it gives some incentive to the workshy to improve their life. Those who claim to be incaperble of work through injury or illness should have their conditions monitored on a regular basis, with incentives to self support.



With the UK in its current downward spiral,no doubt benefits will soon be a thing of the past, everybody will be down at the soup kitchen.



D.N



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