Refusal of Permission To Purchase

Ballyboffin


Joined: 25/08/2007
Posts: 903

Message Posted:
04/04/2009 01:54

Can anyone tell me why someone can be turned down for their PTP especially on Pre-74 title, apart from being near an army base ?

Thanks.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
04/04/2009 02:19

Have you been turned down Ballyboffin?



Do "they" not give a reason for refusal?



Apart from if you have a criminal record I cannot think of any other reason for refusal.

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
04/04/2009 03:23

Unfortunately I think that people get turned down on pre-1974 simply because it is pre-1974 and they don't want to dilute the pool of Turkish Cypriot owned property. However, the Government will not admit that there is a policy of refusing permission to foreigners so it is very difficult to get any official answers.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
04/04/2009 07:44

The government did state seveal months ago that they were preventing foreigners obtaining PTP on pre 1974 title, article in CT.



For the very reason J&J state.



I know this is an old chestnut but one arument always used in answer is that technically you must not start building until you have PTP and it is therefore your own problem. We all know the reason why we build and move in without PTP, however that is no excuse in law.



Yet another reason when I have stated that no title is safe to purchase here when the question is posed on the forum.



Let us all hope that April 20th will see a new age commence.

Ballyboffin


Joined: 25/08/2007
Posts: 903

Message Posted:
04/04/2009 12:16

cronos message 2



No, I have had my Kocan for the past 3 years. Two of my neighbourswho bought at the same time, both English have been refused and they are trying to find out why.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
04/04/2009 12:32

ballyboffin

in recent times the rules changed somewhere as i have friends in the same situ.

refused by the army yet neighbour who purchased before them was given theirs.

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
04/04/2009 14:02

EVERYONE who has been refused PTP -



PLEASE! - get in touch with Marian Stokes at HBPG as soon as possible, there are moves afoot...



See: http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/PTP_refused.html



Contact Marian on : marian@ayza.net



This is your best chance of getting a result.



Keith.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 00:48

The biggest problems surrounding pre74 Turkish Title Deeds is that many purchasers are not actually refused but simply strung along. The government is not admitting that they are not giving permission to purchase this particular title deed they are simply ignoring all that have purchased it.



No doubt there will be a response from the usual crowd suggesting that this is just a rumour to make buyers purchase exchange property. Evidence from the HBPG would however suggest otherwise. For those who have purchased this particular type of title deed or those considering it, I suggest you Google an article that appeared in the Cyprus Times in 2008 called "Still talking the Talk"



Yet another reason to add to the many others, for not buying in the TRNC?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 00:52

Dear BB, re msg 1



I feel very sorry for your neighbours.. for seven years I have been banging a Lambeg sized drum ( for those of you who don't know - they're BIG) about how this title is the safest - and the most expensive - accordingly.



I'm wondering is this some deliberate attempt to devalue title that is internationally recognised?

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 01:01

Evenin' mmmmmm.......I have bought Pre-74 turkish Title property and am still awaiting PTP over 2 years later.



From your knowledge of ECHR and International Law.....how would I stand if I was refused PTP?

I know that theoretically we should all have waited for our PTP BEFORE purchasing....but if I AM refused,then is my contract of sale worth the paper it is written on and can I seek the return of my money?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 01:13

Cronos



Surely you know by now that your contract is worthless?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 07:59

Hi Cronos, re msg 10



Well, firstly I'd use local "help" from a trustworthy source to see what is happening with your application.



I'd even try to link up with other folk with the same title and see if TOGETHER you have a little more influence.



Those that have had their application refused ( military reasons) - when a next door neighbour has theirs - I'd probably consider registering my purchase with the RoC land registry - that way the ECHR will see your purchase is *officially* recorded and internationally recognised.



I reckon I'd "sell" it to someone like Ismet ( Elko2) and let him" rent it back" ( pepper corn rent of course ) with an agreement in (say) the UK to recognise you as the owner in trust and transfer back ownership when EU citizens no longer "need" "PTP".



Why the heck does buying a house in Cyprus have to be such a nightmare?



Do others feel that there is actually a trend to refuse "PTP" on pre-74 title?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 09:14

we were given our ptp on turkish title and have the deeds in our name.

i think the refusals are possibly for other reasons.

didn't find purchasing here a nightmare in any way.

my advice would be get help from a cypriot who can guide you through it all.

after all a cypriot wouldn't buy a property without first seeing the kochan in the name of the seller.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 12:12

Firestarter....msg 13



You have often tried to reassure me in the past when I've expressed my concerns about whether us foreigners will ever get PTP on Pre-74 Turkish Title Deeds , by highlighting how YOU eventually got your PTP and Kocan no problem , and it was just a case of waiting and being patient.

However....and please correct me if I'm wrong....I think I picked up on a thread somewhere that your other half is a Turkish Cypriot ?

If so...don't you think this would have had a massive bearing on the success of your application?

If your partner IS a TC ,then your reassurances to myself and others have been misleading and may have given false hope.

I look forward to your reply.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 12:20

Anyone who has been refused PTP please email HBPG at marian@ayza.net

This is a mounting problem now and needs to be addressed.



Sibel

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 12:31

Sibel...msg 15



Thanks very much for your continued offers of help and support to people who are being discriminated against regarding their TRNC property purchase.



The problem for us is that we haven't YET been refused.....yet we are still in limbo after well over 2 years.

Many people are now coming forward who have been waiting since 2004.

So much for the so called "best",internationally recognised title deeds to choose !

Perhaps this is a tactic?

If they actually issue a refusal,then people can choose to challenge it using the help of the HBPG etc.

If they just sit on it...and keep people in limbo....then what can we do ?

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 12:34

Please keep chasing your PTP's. You can do this yourself either by phoning the Ministry of Interior on 00 90 (0)392 611 1127 or 00 90 (0)392 611 1143. Speak to Sevil who speaks good English. Obviously it is better if you can attend the office in Lefkosa yourself. Unfortunately if they inform you that it is still with the military, there is no way to approach them yourself to check. But please persevere with the MOI.



Please see this article:



http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/Press/CT310508_PTPrefusal.html



Sibel

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 13:01

I think there is now sufficient evidence to confirm that there is a problem with foreigners purchasing Turkish pre74 title deeds. To show that it is no longer just the rumour mill in action, I did some research and it is not only the problem of them not being issued but also them being stalled. Many of those waiting for permission have done so since 2004.There are also people whose neighbours have their permission but all later purchasers are refused. I believe there are problems currently being investigated for purchasers on Olympus Villas Karsiyaka, Gursel Apartments Girne, Camelot Beach Alsancak and New Villas Iskele.



What is infuriating is why the Government does not come out and just admit to using this tactic? The more honest advocates are at least now starting to tell it as it is and at least one estate agent is now alerting purchasers to this problem.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 14:09

Cylad...msg 20



Thanks for the advice.



I realise that many of us foreigners have been given PTP on pre-74 turkish Title deeds IN THE PAST.



But do you know of anyone who has been granted it in the last 6 months...who does not have a TC spouse or relatives?



I fear the goalposts have definitely been moved and there is a covert move by the TRNC to secure their own land for their own people.

Hope I'm wrong.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 14:18

When we were over on our buying trip Dec08/Jan09 we were also looking at some pre 1974 title property, when we asked our advocat to do a check on the property she advised us that it would be a pointless exercise as the Govt had informed Advocats that PTP pre 1974 land from foreigners would not be accepted for a min 6 month period, that was in December.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 14:21

Yes we have discussed it in the past. However I have now looked into this in more detail and it appears there is definitely a problem. The numbers simply do not stack up when you compare the amount of refusals and length of time people are waiting for the different deeds. The people that came forward were those that had purchased years ago and people like Firestarter, who according to another thread is married to a TC so would not have problems anyway. The HBPG are aware of the many problems pre 74 purchasers are experiencing. You only have to attend one of their meetings and speak to those who are experiencing this to see the extent of the problem.



This is a very real problem Cylad. Please don't dismiss it as the rumour mill. The last thing I would want to see happening is more innocent people paying for property they will never own and handing over money to a system that is stacked heavily against them.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 14:23

The Saints.....sounds interesting !



Was an explanation given for the reason for this 6 month "ban" ?

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 14:34

Hi Cronos,

No she just said that she had been advised not to by the Govt not to submit any Pre 1974 PTP for Foreigners for a min 6 month period as they would not accept them. I asked her why and she said it was not the first time they had got this message it happens now and then. She did not know why.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 14:38

Very interesting.



I wonder if this will change dependant upon the outcome of the elections?

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 14:44

She did not say they were not issuing PTP, she said they were not accepting any just to clear that up. So people who already have them in the pipeline should in theory be OK I suppose.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 15:46

At least the government are not proceeding with applications for pre 74 Turkish Titile deeds so in theory people now know where they stand. I recently read that 99 out of 100 PTP's for this title deed are now being refused or decisions are delayed indefinitely. As for those of us in the pipeline, I have heard from my advocate that they are now looking at the possibility of long leases rather than ownership.



Of course this has consequences for those who already have Turkish Title Deeds, it means is that you can only sell your property to a TC. This has financial implications obviously.



I am relieved that at least some advocates and estate agents are acknowledging this now.

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
05/04/2009 23:11

Perhaps its best not to panic until after the elections and current settlements negotiations have been completed as a new government may well do a u-turn on this and fix the problem. Maybe then the HBPG and others can put the acid on the new government to fix this if they want to restore confidence and kick start the construction industry again.



Even TC's who own pre 74 properties would not appreciate effectively not being able to sell there land/ properties to foreigners as this would very substantially devalue it transforming it from the most expensive to the cheapest land in the TRNC. Developers who own such land would also scream blue murder in such a scenario.



Aussie

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 00:21

Only if they happen to be called Frank !

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 08:31

cronos re post 14

let me explain my hubbys dad (absent father) who was a tc left his mum when she found out she was pregnant with him. hence being half tc.

for all purposes he has a british passport and the authorities here don't know anything about his background. why would they, they have never been told!

so he is genetically tc/british but why would he tell the authorities? he doesn't want to do national service or want anything from this country.

not many people know this info mainly close friends.

he has always classed himself as british and has no other connection to the tc's other than his birth father was a tc. the guy who did a runner, nice bloke!

so as you can see it didn't help us in anyway get our ptp or kochan, so don't worry just keep chasing them monthly and it will happen!

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 08:52

firestarter...msg 30



Thanks very much for the explanation...but there was no need to be so open about your family history on a public forum.



I'm glad to hear that your application was successful without your husband using any tc status,and hopefully as you say,patience will pay off for myself and many others who "did the right thing" and bought Pre-74 Turkish Title Deeds.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
06/04/2009 09:03

cronos

i tell it like it is.

people don't always like it but i am an open and truthfull person , hubby is as well.

good luck with your ptp!