PTP - Cyprus Today Article

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/04/2009 23:09

Front page of CT - story of couple who have waited a long time and now find their home In Alsancak has had PTP refused.



It would appear the government have kept their word and are clearing the back log but reading between the lines, to clear means just refuse!!



Marian Stokes of HBPG is obviously involved and she states "aware of more than 100 refusals in recent months and expects hundreds more as back log is tackled".



She also goes on "a pattern is emerging from the refusals she knows about that the homes along the coast from Karsiyaka to Karaaoglanoglu are being rejected because they are too near military zones." Although specific reasons of the most recent including above have not been given.



MS is concerned because buyers have little legal redress because they applied for PTP after signing contracts to purchase. She blames lawyers, estate agents and government for these problems and the first two for misleading buyers.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/04/2009 23:11

MS asks anyone refused PTP to contact her at marian@ayza.net



Give the date of refusal and application number. She will try to give advice on how to proceed.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
11/04/2009 23:17

hI cih SO MUCH FOR GUARNATEES DID YOU SEE THE FULL PAGE ADVERT URGING EXPATS WHO HAVE A VOTE TO USE IT AND HOW THEY WANT TO HELP THE EXPAT COMMUNITY XXoops sorry just realised left caps on sorry xxxx

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
11/04/2009 23:25

Is there an online link to this article??

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/04/2009 23:28

No. CT do not have a web site?????



I have trydep a precis of the article the rest is about the couple mentioned but if anyone wants a copy then e-mail me and I will scan it to you.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/04/2009 23:30

Liz,



I did read what DP stated but what is the point, we cannot vote!!!



I am still owed a coffee. The last couple of weeks have been chaotic but will try to get to see you soon.



David

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
11/04/2009 23:48

david you are always welcome. lets hope they mean what they say particually the bit about all the wealth of knowledge we have which they want to develope. At what cost to us I wonder xxxxxxsee you soon xxxxxxxx

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
12/04/2009 12:19

The whole system is rotten. They should change the system and give permission to individuals and not for a specific piece of land. They will have to declare publicly which areas require specific permission and the buyers will keep clear of these areas.

Let us concentrate our efforts on the setting up of the right system.

ismet

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
12/04/2009 12:29

If there is some kind of solution to the ongoing talks then surely the military would be pulling out some of its troops , I would guess they would leave some of these areas that are in question.

So my point is, If they refuse PTP then leave where does that leave the people who applied in the firs place.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
12/04/2009 13:04

I sincerely hope that this thread will be allowed to run , rather than being closed or worse still,deleted,as others have in the past which dare to question the wisdom of buying property in NC.



I fully appreciate and understand that Izzet has to tread a fine line on here,especially when many of his sponsors have a vested interest in promoting the property market.

However,whilst I can understand that these estate agents and developers will want to put a positive spin on everything,this should not mean they should be able to silence those who are exposing uncomfortable truths about PTP , mortgaged land ,and as Ismet says,the "rotten system" which is weighed heavily against purchasers.

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
12/04/2009 13:16

Cronos

Well said!

I notice that the 'you must be a GC / Pikey etc. shout downers' are absent for a short while. Can't be anything to do with not being at their place of work by any chance?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/04/2009 13:19

Which article exactly would the readers of this thread like to read on line? Uploading takes only seconds but I'm not sure which one!

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
12/04/2009 13:33

I have just read the article it does state that there is Loans on the land and the developer has disapeared. I though any loans on the land came up on the land registry check that you get done before you purchase??

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
12/04/2009 13:41

Hello John popped up just on cue eh!!!

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
12/04/2009 13:51

It appears that the couple bought their property 5 years ago and before you could register your contract. Probably found out about the loans when they did. They also have the problem of being refused PTP just to add to the mix.



Marian Stokes is quoted in CT as saying "The lawyers don't tell buyers that their contract is worthless, that it is simply a wishlist, without PTP, and with a worthless Specific Performance Law."

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
12/04/2009 14:05

DC has kindly put the CT article on the internet.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
12/04/2009 14:46

Trevor, Probably, ROC government offices closed today!

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
12/04/2009 16:57

You can read the article "No permission to purchase" on line here:



http://www.cyprusdownload.nl (bottom of the home page)



or download the article and read/print it off line. In this case your password is [ cyprus44 ] (No brackets!)

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
12/04/2009 17:34

Re Msg 19: Reading the article it is clear that the Haytons face other (maybe more difficult!) issues apart from the PTP. Same problem in GC side, we have many friends over there who are losing out because developers have done a runner because of the credit crunch, banks chasing them for their money. They finish up paying the bank a load of money in order to get the title deeds. Seems to me it makes no odds where on Cyprus you have bought a property,

same or similar problems. Just sit tight, don't panic until someone (Bank, Landowner) tries to evict you!

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
12/04/2009 17:38

saints.



Yes the article was about one couple but Marian Stokes is also quotes as stating over 100 have been rejected and as I quoted initially in msg 1 this includes near military land.



As for loans, most are taken out after contracts are registered. Morally wrong but not illegal. This is why so many people are having problems after PTP and registering, the banks have happily given mortgages to developers.



Only thing we can hope for is a change in government next week to one which is more accepting of foreign buyers.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
12/04/2009 17:47

Well let's hope the Govt does change, from what I can see it can't get any worse that what it is right now.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
13/04/2009 17:40

i do feel sorry for those refused, but if we were able to apply for the ptp and the application was only taking a few weeks to do then no money would have exchanged hands and this wouldn't be happening.

is it not the advice/law here that you must apply for ptp before buying?

not that anyone does.

its a timescale which is the problem, along with nobody knowing which land is or isn't available to non cypriots.

lets face it ,i know 2 people recently refused neither would i say are a threat to national sercurity.

does anyone know if this also happens in mainland turkey??

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
13/04/2009 18:37

I thought that registering your contract prevented anyone taking out a mortgage on your property. Wasn't that the idea to give people some protection?

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
13/04/2009 18:42

Cronos buying in the south is no different and I know cos I lived there 5 years ago and listened to a lot of disgruntled brits whose houses were so badly built, footing slipping, retainer walls slipping etc and the builders basically said 'tough kakki'..so go spout your propoganda somewhere else!!!

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
13/04/2009 18:55

msg 24,

Indeed that is the 'Idea' - unfortunately, because the system is new(ish) it seems that there MAY have been instances where the land office did not report the contract registration to the Bank who requested a search, prior to granting a loan/mortgage - not known how many times this has occured.

msg24,

did you mean that most mortgages are taken out after contracts have been SIGNED (not registered)? - I would think that the attitude of the Bank in these cases was 'Well, he's got a contact to build on this land, so he'll be getting money from the client, so he'll be able to pay us back, so he's a good risk, so we'll lend him the money'!

Totally alien to our way of thinking, and of couse it does depend on the Vendor/Landowner acting in good faith, intending to pay the money back, and actually doing so.

However, 'There's many a slip twixt cup and lip' and 'The road to Hell is paved with good intentions' - to end in a flurry of mixed metaphors

Keith.

Mindy



Joined: 27/10/2008
Posts: 1210

Message Posted:
13/04/2009 21:09

Does any one agree with this scenario...........



All potential house buyers arrive in TRNC, find property they want to buy.

Go tell estate agent/developers/Advocate they will buy said property soon as PTP's come through.

If, only we had all done this, the Government would have gotten their act together pretty damn quick......... No permissions = no revenue in the coffers.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
13/04/2009 21:26

Deecyprus4...msg 25



You appear to have made your usual mistake of spouting off without actually reading my post.

We are talking about PTP and property issues in the TRNC......NOT in the "South".

Are we all supposed to take some comfort in the fact that people also have problems in the South?

How does that help anyone?

You've also been true to form and sunk to the level of accusing me of being a propagandist just because I refuse to accept that everything in the garden is rosy in NC.

Very lazy.......but to be expected.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
14/04/2009 12:29

i totally agree with jason.

a tc here wouldn't purchase a property without first seeing the kochan, i know they don't need ptp but how many people just got their money out and jumped in without thinking first?

greed will get you. its not cheap if someone else can claim against it or if you will never own it!

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
14/04/2009 13:27

Jason......I see where you are going with this,but I think you are being very unfair to the thousands of people who took the advice of their legal representatives,and proceeded with their purchase after being told that PTP was a lengthy process but merely a formality.

It may be naive.....it may be blinkered.....but we are all wise with hindsight.

I know that you were able to exercise the option of waiting for your PTP before purchasing way back when,but it is practically impossible to pursue that course of action in the real world.

Which builder/developer/estate agent will allow you to choose a property,then pay a minimum holding deposit until such time as you get PTP(2-3 years?)



I do know what you mean though by,in your words"brainless mugs".....I would prefer to call them wide eyed innocents.

Three years ago when we came out looking for property we were amazed at the number of Brits who were out on their FIRST trip to NC,AFTER buying a property and paying a deposit on the inte

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
14/04/2009 13:28

Internet !

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
14/04/2009 14:26

cronos

i think with a lot of people it was always about price.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
14/04/2009 14:30

Firestarter.....Oh I've no doubt you are right.



But irrespective of how much of a "bargain"(we shall see) NC property was....don't you believe that buyers deserve a fair and equitable system and protection under the law ?

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
14/04/2009 21:42

firestarter you wrote "i totally agree with jason.

a tc here wouldn't purchase a property without first seeing the kochan, i know they don't need ptp but how many people just got their money out and jumped in without thinking first? "



I know a CTA stewardess who has bought an apartment on esdedger land and she is TC ?

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
14/04/2009 22:12

A TC can sort out the legalities in days unlike us foreigners who have to wait years. It would also be a tad strange if they didn't know the system.



Unfortunately us 'foreigners' ignorantly thought that there was a legal system (based on UK law we were told by TC estate agents/builders/advocates) to protect us and that NC 'advocats' were like UK solicitors. How wrong we are. NC advocates are basically business people, they take no oath, no regulation, owe no duty of care and have no indemnity insurance. One couldnt get poorer legal advice and protection if you tried. If there is a problem i.e their incompetance, their failure to act properly etc, the advocates basic defence is to shrug their shoulders and /or say that we didn't ask the right question!



Is this a system for NC to be proud of? Is this the way to promote investment?

Mindy



Joined: 27/10/2008
Posts: 1210

Message Posted:
14/04/2009 22:37

We lived in Dhekelia from 1979 to 1981 in South of the Island, we always wished we could retire here when the time arrived, we enjoyed it very much and had some great memories, we do not feel it was about greed by purchasing here in NC, it was mainly what was available for the budget we had. We didn't all have houses in UK that commanded top prices at resale. North of the country are considerably lower as I am sure you know. Yes, we were definately blinkered regarding the complexities of the system here, our biggest mistake was trusting Advocates and Builders who smile and screw you at the same time.

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
14/04/2009 22:41

If it's any consolation they also do it to their friends and relatives.