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Title Deeds-Advice Please

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magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
24/09/2009 08:52

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Message 1 of 23 in Discussion

Hi,



I appreciate this is a legal matter but would welcome your advice/comments.



Who is the legal owner of the property assuming the builder fails to pay the necessary tax to transfer the title deeds.?If the purchaser should die without receiving the deeds could the builder put a claim on the property?



We appear to be in this position-our house is registered and we have made a TRNC will.



Regards.



Art



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
24/09/2009 10:38

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Message 2 of 23 in Discussion

Find out who the builder's bank is - go there with your registered Contract of Sale and warn them that if they allow a mortgage to be registered against your property - the s**t will hit the fan!



Presumably 'yes', but have you paid the Stamp Duty?



Ozbey


Joined: 04/03/2009
Posts: 304

Message Posted:
24/09/2009 12:15

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Message 3 of 23 in Discussion

magicart,



Sadly I have bad news for you -



The legal owner of the property is the person whose name is on the kocan (title deed).

If doesn't matter if YOU are dead or alive, it is HIS property so he wouldn't even need to put in a claim.

All you own, at the moment, is a contract to buy the property.

If you have registered the contract (not the house) at the land registry this will prevent him from taking a mortgage on the property, as the land registry now know that he has contracted to sell it to you but it does not force him to transfer the title into your name.

If he is in breach of contract, you can sue him for compensation (which he may or may not be able to pay), but even the court cannot force him to transfer the kocan into your name. This is due to the Specific Performance Law which desperately needs amending to resolve this problem.



Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but these are the blunt facts, as I understand them.

Regards,

Ozbey



magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
24/09/2009 17:59

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Message 4 of 23 in Discussion

Ozbey,



Thank you for this very informative reply.



You have just confirmed what I also understand to be the case.



This is very concerning and I suspect this is the reason why the builders are black mailing people into paying their proportion of the property tax.



What incentive does the builder have to pay his tax?



Think we have a battle on our hands.



Thanks again.



Art



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
24/09/2009 18:39

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Message 5 of 23 in Discussion

I have taken part in efforts to have the Specific Performance law amended or abolished altogether with no luck so far. We have failed to make the authorites understand what it really means.



Having said al that above, my belief and contention is that the Specific Performance Law is not applicable in your case but you must find an advocate who ahs the conviction to take this matter all the way to its final conclusion.



The SP law stipulates that you must apply to court within two months of the date of the contract in order to be able to ask for your title deeds. Thus my contention is that the SP law does not apply to those cases where the title deeds were not ready for transfer.



No matter what happens at the District court, such a case is bound to go to the court of Appeal for a final decision, thus you must be prepared for the expense.



Thus I would sue the builder for the title deeds knowing full well what the difficulties are.

ismet

http://www.elkocyprus.com



Ozbey


Joined: 04/03/2009
Posts: 304

Message Posted:
24/09/2009 19:59

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Message 6 of 23 in Discussion

magicart,

Believe what elko2 says - he is much better informed than me (and better connected too!)

I was only giving you my best understanding of the situation, and hoping that elko2 would come along and provide an enhanced answer.

Well done Ismet, as usual.

Regards,

Ozbey.



magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
25/09/2009 08:20

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Message 7 of 23 in Discussion

Hi Elko2,



Many thanks for your advice its is very much apprieciated.



Art



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
25/09/2009 08:47

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Message 8 of 23 in Discussion

Assuming that the title deeds are now ready for transfer and the developer/builder/owner is refusing to transfer for want of more money unjustly, I suggest that you explore the following possibility:

Sue them for

1. Transfer of Title Deeds. Specific Performance Law should not be applicable in cases where the title deeds were not ready for transfer at the time the contract was signed. This is a very radical thinking and you will need the right advocate for this job!



2. In the alternative ask for full compensation. Even if they do not have the cash to pay compensation, you can have forceful sale of the property to pay for it.



Most defendants will ask for "Security for Costs" based on the fact that you are not normally resident here. This has been opposed successfully by my wife in a particular case because the defendant was already in possession of assets from the Plaintiff. Anyway, lots of cat and mouse game in court which you must be prepared for.

ismet

http://www.elkocyprus.com



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
25/09/2009 09:54

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Message 9 of 23 in Discussion

Msg 8 says, "sue them"

As I understand it, Elko is saying pay lawyers even more money. Elko, what I would like to know is whether this approach has ever been successful? I don't just mean whether a court case has been won, I mean whether the homebuyer got their money back (in full) or their property back (plus costs).

Mal



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
25/09/2009 11:16

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Message 10 of 23 in Discussion

Mal,

You do not have to sue them, you can let them enjoy the spoils. Court action is not for the weak hearts.

My father was very fond of the late famous Turkish Statesman "Ismet Inonu" and he named me after him. He had a well known saying. "The decent peope have to be at least as courageous as the indecent ones if you want to put this country right".



ismet



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
25/09/2009 11:49

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Message 11 of 23 in Discussion

Magicart/Msg 1:



Knowing and having experienced, for 4 years, outrageous litigation costs, coupled with the hassle, stress, and uncertainty, culminating in the loss of half our life savings, due to total lack of 'due process' in a case we should have indisputably won and, as would be carried out in any civilised country - I would deem it advisable to pay the builder's tax, or risk it and simply wait until this iniquitous 'Specific Performance' law is repealed.



Pursuing litigation will result in a terminal decline of your bank balance, and somebody's going to get quite ill.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
25/09/2009 13:22

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Message 12 of 23 in Discussion

Re; msg 10, I take it the answer is no, Ismet, no one has been successful when taking legal action to recover money or property through the courts. I have heard lots stories of negative results from taking court action but have yet to hear of a positive result.

I was thinking that if it cost 10 000, say, to achieve nothing, perhaps a visit to the casino with the the money might be less of a gamble.

Mal



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
25/09/2009 14:41

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Message 13 of 23 in Discussion

msg. 12

Mal,

Are you referring specifically to expats or in general? I have personal knowledge of a few successful examples with judgement and full execution but it would not be ethical for me to quote any without their permission. I can quote my own personal experience if you like but that could be considered exceptional.



In my case, I got my money back with interest. The defendant had transferred his house to his brother in order to avoid payment. I started bankruptcy proceedings against him in court which was unheard of plus I got an injunction on the house he transferred to his brother and poceeded to prove that the transfer was fraudulent. After I closed my case they gave in, mortgaged the house to a bank and paid me in full. When I conducted the trial in person the court room was full with advocates. Actually the President of the District Court ordered all the young advocates to attend and learn something. That was great honour for me.

ismet

PS: 30 years previously the same judge was a young advocate for Famagusta Municipality and I won a case against him at the High court



Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
25/09/2009 15:10

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Message 14 of 23 in Discussion

Moral of the story is; DON'T MESS WITH ISMET!



Richard



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
25/09/2009 17:31

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Message 15 of 23 in Discussion

Richard,

Even Gary Mongers misus know that

ismet



Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
25/09/2009 20:09

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Message 16 of 23 in Discussion

Advice for a title deed could be 'SIR ISMET', God or Allah forbid!



Richard



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
25/09/2009 21:01

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Message 17 of 23 in Discussion

msg12: "Are you referring specifically to expats or in general? "

Ex-pats of course, they have the problem of not being able to have property titles transferred into their name until after the long wait for PTP. In the UK, no one in their right mind would allow money to be transferred to a vendor without the equivalent worth of property being transferred to the purchaser. Lawyers there are paranoid about the exchange of title deeds and cash being improperly conducted on exchange day. Somehow, ex-pats (including myself) have been talked into accepting the extremely unsafe property procedures here without questioning why they are parting with their money without receiving anything of value in return. It has all the characteristics of a confidence trick and yet the previous TRNC government allowed it to go ahead.

Mal



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
25/09/2009 22:31

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Message 18 of 23 in Discussion

malsanjack/Msg17:



And, as far as it has turned out since the last election, the present government are allowing this 'confidence trick' to perpetuate... 'ad nauseam' - of course, to the continuing detriment of the country's image.



At a time when the EU/UN are beginning to see the RoC as the 'villains of the piece', the government should be exhibiting to the outside world its avowed intention to rectify (to put it as euphemistically as possible) these existing 'legal anomalies'. Only the enactment of their existing law and a thorough overhaul of the legal system in general is likely to attract further serious investors and influence the lifting of the International embargo.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
26/09/2009 12:26

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Message 19 of 23 in Discussion

Well said Tenaktou, you should be a reporter, have you ever thought of writing for http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com?

Mal



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
26/09/2009 22:30

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Message 20 of 23 in Discussion

Dear Malsancak,



Having lived in Cyprus 28 years, if only you knew how much I'd like to write about!



But, I know the 'rules' - while you have temporary residency - because that is all it is - to express your feelings and opinions is playing 'Russian Roulette' with your residential status.



Prior to RoC joining the EU, I've known foreigners of several nationalities to be deported within 4 hrs for 'upsetting a Cypriot - some of those had 20-30 years residency - it made no difference. The RoC policy was: 'No reason is needed to be given for deportation.'



This means you have only time to pack an overnight bag, then you are taken away by the police in handcuffs and put on a plane to the nearest destination out of RoC, which used to be Crete. From there, you must find/pay your own way home.



Not only that; you will be 'blacklisted' - recorded on all airport immigration computers - meaning that if you attempt to try re-entry, you'll be sent back. So, no chance to sell - con'td



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
26/09/2009 22:47

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Message 21 of 23 in Discussion



Msg20-Cont'd: your property.



Many of those I saw deported in such a manner had their houses immediately raided and all contents, shall we say: 'removed by the locals'!



Malsancak, I'm just an ignorant Kiwi, who wouldn't know dried dates from sheep sh!t if it was labelled and under a microsope - I have no illusions of being a reporter!



All I have chronicled on this forum is merely a series of time-worn plaigiarisms - well, coupled with a few of my own (worthless!) assessments.



I have written a 500 page novel, which 400+ people have read and commented: 'Unputdownable!', but, despite pursuing all channels in the 'Writers' & Artists Year Book', I have no contacts within the publishing world, so short of 'E', or 'Vanity', I can't ever see my 'modern classic' reaching the bookshelves in W.H. Smith, or the 'spinning bestsellers' at Heathrow!



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
26/09/2009 22:59

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Message 22 of 23 in Discussion

Tenakoutou,

I don't think TRNC is as bad as the dark side. Having temporary residencies must put people on their toes but do you actually have any horror stories for TRNC similar to those you described for the south?

ismet



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
27/09/2009 10:34

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Message 23 of 23 in Discussion

Dear Elko,



As much as I respect your intergrity, irrespective of the legal complexity of the subject of the 'thread', viz-a-viz your thoughtful contributions, please understand you enjoy inalienable rights, whereas foreigners do not.



I, indeed, have abundant 'horror stories' - but regret that I am loathe to 'air' them on a public forum for precisely the above reason.



Anyone who has sunk most of their 'life savings' into a property would extremely foolish to incur the wrath of the 'powers that be' and take the risk of jeopardising their residential status.



I trust you will accept the above response with the respect that I accord you with.



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