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TRNC Bar Council conference 9th Oct 09

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Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
09/10/2009 18:03

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Message 1 of 59 in Discussion

I think there was a good turnout. Very disappointed in the content and that they didn't want to have a Q & A session at the end. The President of the Bar Council is well intentioned I believe but they really don't get it in my humble opinion. They tried to spell out what they see as the issues i.e. old colonial laws, no Specific Performance, poor contracts, peoples wrong expectations of what remedies the court can give etc. They greatly stressed that if you could get the title then do so asap & not argue over £3-5k. That's fine but I suspect the majority are no where near that position. What they didn't seem to grasp is, IMHO that if their own members (the lawyers) had acted in the best interest of their clients in the first place then most of the problems wouldn't have occurred. Thet did acknowledge the laughter when complaints re lawyers was mentioned but didn't say what they were doing about it.



Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
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Message Posted:
09/10/2009 18:19

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Message 2 of 59 in Discussion

A complete whitewash! How can they change laws, that's the job of politicians! They implied that it was the responsibility of the purchaser to know the laws not the law firms! All very disappointing.



Richard



Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
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Message Posted:
09/10/2009 18:40

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Message 3 of 59 in Discussion

Is anyone honestly surprised?



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
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Message Posted:
09/10/2009 18:53

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Message 4 of 59 in Discussion

To be fair they did say that it is within the duties of the Baro to propose new laws or propose amendments and they are seriously looking at this aspect. However they stressed that any changes in law cannot be applied retrospectively i.e. it will not affect the current buyers.

They stressed that as far as the Specific Performance Law is concerned it stops the courts making orders for title deeds to be registered in the names of the buyers. The only option left is to claim compensation.

I asked for a comment about my view that the SP law applies only in cases where the title deed was ready to be transferred at the time of signing the contract i.e. it does not stop the courts making an order for the transfer of title because in most cases the title deeds were not originally available. He insisted that the SP law restricted the court in that respect. To be honest it was not really the place to discuss a fine point of law and I just wanted to draw attention to my radical view.

ismet



girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
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Message Posted:
09/10/2009 19:13

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Message 5 of 59 in Discussion

"They greatly stressed that if you could get the title then do so asap & not argue over £3-5k"

How about £5-10k? ,£10-20k?



Pathetic!! Hope anyone thinking of buying takes heed.



Its easy ,when you purchase you should take full title and thus ownership,why the Govt refuses to accept this is beyond me. Also it should be illegal to blackmail people into paying extra to obtain said deeds.



Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
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Message Posted:
09/10/2009 19:19

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Message 6 of 59 in Discussion

Hi Ismet, It was nice meeting you and you meeting Memet after a long while.

My problem is the title deed. The builder is still refusing to transfer it until the government reduce his vat and taxes. They have just reduced it 2% now he says they will reduce it again. My advocate wants me to take him to court, why should I do that when they canít force him comply. As for most of the meeting, it sounded like Catch 22 to me.



Troodo.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
09/10/2009 19:43

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Message 7 of 59 in Discussion

'Simply go and get your title deeds!'



And what if you've already been refused?



My chicken (read 'property' refused PTP) is worthless unless I own it with freehold title.



Maybe, in order to get compensation, I should tell the court that my 'chicken' is worth £250k!



I've never had my (meagre!) intelligence so insulted by so much euphemistic contradictory 'clap-trap' in my entire life.



'Any new legislation will not be retrospective.' Well, a fat lot of good that will do the 99.9% of aggrieved buyers who attended!



And why the clapping? It should have been 'booing'.



Are the legal profession, not already smugly and adequately cosseted in in their own 'security' without adulation in the form of clapping being accorded them?



'Thank you for your participation!' Er, excuse me, participation, according to 'The Concise Oxford Dictionary' is defined as: 'have share in thing (with person)' - this 'conference' was all one-sided, unless I missed something!



Chunder time!



kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
09/10/2009 19:44

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Message 8 of 59 in Discussion

On a negative note, BARO didn't address the problems with lawyers not giving proper advice to purchasers prior to buying, nor did they blame them, or make any comments about regulations to ensure this doesn't happen in the future. They did state that they are taking complaints about lawyers seriously. And they need our help to do this. Hopefully this is sincere and time will tell.



On a postive note, they have now publicly admitted that the SP Law doesn't protect buyers and have voiced proposals to change the lesgislation re this. They also publicly admitted there is a problem with PTP application procedure and that a practica route must be taken to eliminate this problem. If they made sure that PTP was granted to the person and not the property it would provide much more protection for buyers.



kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
09/10/2009 19:51

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Message 9 of 59 in Discussion

The head of Girne bar was very aware that in his 1 month at Girne Courts, 1/2 the cases were foreigners with property problems. I can understand his thinking that wherever possible, you should take title of the villa if you can, rather than spend time fighting for snagging to be done etc, but the word is IF!!! And why should you not get what you paid for and what was contractually promised in your contract? People need to start being made accountable for their actions.



At least these problems are being admitted and hopefully will now be addressed and addressed quickly. We need the policiticians to start to make positive changes in legislation NOW in order to protect buyers and bring prosperity to the WHOLE island and not just the short-sighted individuals who can't deliver what they've been paid for. The construction industry is a big part of the TRNC economy.



kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
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Message Posted:
09/10/2009 19:54

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Message 10 of 59 in Discussion

They would not take individual questions and failed to comment on lawyers being responsible for the problems now being faced by many buyers, however, they did state that they were more than happy to have one to ones to answer questions or people could contact them by email. So here are the details:

BARO (Bar Council)

tel 0392 2270 841

fax 0392 2270 840

email kktcbarolarbitligi@gmail.com



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
09/10/2009 20:14

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Message 11 of 59 in Discussion

I am so annoyed that not once in the 'lecture', for thats what it was, did they mention what the lawyers (whom they / BARO represent) should have done to protect their clients. If their colleagues (they used the word 'profession' many times but I don't think they deserve it) had done what they were saying we should have done then the situation wouldn't have arisen. Not once did they mention 'ensure you get proper legal advice', perhaps they were acknowledging that you can't! No mention of lawyers owing a duty of care to their clients.



They should hang their heads in shame for allowing these problems to have happened and the fact that this 'conference' is even happening is an admission of that. They did say that they would hold another meeting purely for Q & A's. I wont be holding my breath. Be good if they gave more than a 2 days notice (advert in Cyprus Today Wed 7th for the Fri 9th event.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
09/10/2009 20:27

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Message 12 of 59 in Discussion

Hector/ Msg 11: Since they obviously can't see further than the 'three pointed star' on the bonnet of their brand new Mercedes, any hopes for beneficial changes towards honest legislation are only a 'pipe-dream'!



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
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Message Posted:
09/10/2009 20:43

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Message 13 of 59 in Discussion

Luckily I'm not a cynical type or I'd be thinking that business for advocates is so bad that they are wondering what they can do to improve their reputation (some hope) & drum up business so they can keep their Merc.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
09/10/2009 20:56

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Message 14 of 59 in Discussion

Hector/Msg 13: Since any conveyancing can be done through a Notary, they won't want any of the existing legislation to be changed, otherwise they would soon become superfluous to requirements - then the Mercs would definitely be 'hitting the auction'!



Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
09/10/2009 21:34

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Message 15 of 59 in Discussion

It's pretty obvious that the Bar Council was set up to protect members of their own profession from malpractice legal law suits, rather than overseeing Law Practices/Firms to ensure that they act within the law.......What law or laws?! Odd how one law totally contradicts another, both being on the statute books at the same time so a Judge cannot make a ruling?! A Judge can interpret the law as he/she feels fit, hence appeal courts. And as to no retrospective legislation, what a load of bullshit, taxes have been imposed retrospectively for as long as I can remember.



Richard



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
09/10/2009 21:53

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Message 16 of 59 in Discussion

I am not speaking up for anybody here but I must clarify a few points. Unfortunately too many points were lost through a rather inaccurate translation.

1. The visiting speaker Mr. Ilker Sertbay is the current president of Girne District Court. He has a reputation for getting the job done quickly and does not allow for prolonged postponements and applies great pressure on advocates to get them to agree with him. For this reason some advocates love him and some hate him.



2. They advised everybody to get the title deeds whenever possible and if necessarry to overlook a few thousand pounds because if they delay the matter through trials or biggering the developer in the meantime may go bust and everything becomes at risk.



I would like to point out that current head of Baro had early riterement from the bench because of failing eyesight and he has very very poor sight and yet he is very hardworking and does have the best interests of the public in his heart. He has issued statements



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
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Message Posted:
09/10/2009 22:02

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Message 17 of 59 in Discussion

on various social issues like unlimited interest rates charged by the banks, possibility of torture at police stations and how to avoid it etc. So in my opinion he is extremely a well meaning chap but he is very limited with what he can achieve. He cannot do much with advocates who really acted for developers but got paid by the buyers. Difficult to prove and after all they cannot lay down rules after the event.



It is my humble opinion that if 50% or more of the contracts of a certain developer were drawn up by a single advocate and if these agreements were grossly in favour of the developer, this particular advocate can be sued successfully in court for acting dishonestly. This is radical thinking and requires someone with a lot of money and conviction to make a test case.

ismet



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
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Message Posted:
09/10/2009 23:35

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Message 18 of 59 in Discussion

"He has issued statements on various social issues like.....possibility of torture at police stations and how to avoid it etc"

You have to laugh............



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
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Message Posted:
09/10/2009 23:45

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Message 19 of 59 in Discussion

" He cannot do much with advocates who really acted for developers but got paid by the buyers. Difficult to prove and after all they cannot lay down rules after the event."



How about investigating these advocates? That's what would happen if the 'legal profession' that was mentioned so often in the meeting actually wanted to repair their ruined reputation isn't it? If the evidence was sufficient for the advocate to be sued surely it would be sufficient for BARO to discipline them or for a criminal prosecution for fraud (albeit that its not an offence in NC it seems)? Perhaps a good opportunity for the suspected advocate to practice the advice from their BARO President on how to avoid torture in a police station?



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
10/10/2009 10:07

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Message 20 of 59 in Discussion

We went sceptical of what could be done and came away sceptical but with reasons now explained.



From what was repeated several times nothing much is going to be done for those currently experiencing problems but may be those that come in the future will fare better. The current legislation is based on Commenwealth Law (their quote) and was never up dated to cater for modern building and purchasing requirments.



One thing that really sticks in my mind is the comment that - "The Law" is what is on the statute books, not what a third party may tell you it is. A judge will only rule on the law as it is written and not take the side of what is perceived to be JUSTICE.



As stated above there was considerable laughter when discipline in the legal sector was mentioned and it did not go unnoticed, however I do not think anyone would expect head of the lawyers "trade Union" to comment.



Let's hope that the turnout will encourge more such sessions and that more will turn out in future



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
10/10/2009 10:32

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Message 21 of 59 in Discussion

Where self-interest reigns and nepotism rules, the message to potential foreign buyers must surely be: it is totally unrealistic to expect anything other than outright mendacity from estate agents, advocates, builders and developers, land owners, etc., and the almost total ineffectiveness of fair redress from the 'legal' system.



Glaring examples of exploitation of the outrageous loopholes in this abyssmally flawed 'legal' system are, with burgeoning publicity, rife; and it has now come to the stage that unless swiftly remedied with honest intent, the real estate market, the mainstay of the TRNC economy, is practically doomed to self destruction.



These potential foreign buyers are, through the media and word of mouth, increasingly becoming more and more aware of the high level of deceit and fraud that is currently being 'legally' perpetrated, and will continue to draw their own conclusions as to the wisdom of 'stepping on the property ladder' with such a risk factor involved.



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
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Message Posted:
10/10/2009 10:53

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Message 22 of 59 in Discussion

Just one small point: they spoke about commonwealth laws-not strictly correct. They really meant colonial laws. Cyprus joined commonwealth when she became a Republic and from that moment on ROc and the two communal chambers made their own laws. The ones they inherited and some lile the Specific Performance Law continued to be in existence after the declaration of the Republic but completely free to repeal them or amend them as they saw fit. So it is misleading and also unfair to put the blame on these colonial laws.

Most of these colonial laws are very basics and very well thought out.



DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
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Message Posted:
10/10/2009 10:54

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Message 23 of 59 in Discussion

Thank you all for going to this "informative" evening - glad I didn't believe from the start it would be of any use.



RE msg 7, tenakoutou (..) 'Simply go and get your title deeds!' (...)

=> In many cases this would mean giving in to some sort of bribery. Some people don't like that and don't want to do that. What do other people in such circumstances think and do?



DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
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Message Posted:
10/10/2009 10:58

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Message 24 of 59 in Discussion

RE msg 23: I meant to write ... giving in to some sort of bribery or blackmail ...



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
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Message Posted:
10/10/2009 11:02

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Message 25 of 59 in Discussion

Ismet,



Thanks for the correction. Sorry I did not get to say hello to you but other half had to dash away. I think most will have been appreciative of your raising of the SP laws which we know you have spoken about many times over the years.



Hans,



Listening to what the legal eagles had to say, in my interpretation, if you do not get your deeds asap than as the law stands you can easily loose your land to the builder, bank, uncle Tom Cobbly and all. So rather than risk having to go to court then get the deeds!!!!!! But we all know the problems there as was raised by question from the floor but no answer was forthcoming.



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
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Message Posted:
10/10/2009 11:22

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Message 26 of 59 in Discussion

I have just spoken on the phone to the General Secretary of Baro and he told me that fax messages have been flooding in. He was surprised at the good turn out. I wonder how many would have turned up if it was not for me putting up a notice here and the TRNC Villa Owners board! Anyway, I directed him to Cyprus44 and I am sure he will be reading these posts very soon.

ismet



Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
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Message Posted:
10/10/2009 11:31

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Message 27 of 59 in Discussion

Ismet



Do I detect a little self adulation here? Lets hope they reply to my fax (as promised) after hearing nothing from them for the last six months. Watch this space!



Richard



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
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Message Posted:
10/10/2009 11:51

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Message 28 of 59 in Discussion

Richard,

I don't think they know what they got themselves in for

"Thank you Mr. ...... for your fax message and your complaint about advocate ....... We will look into the matter and inform you of the result in due course."

Then letters will go out to the relevant advocates for an explanation. Some may be called for an interview and I hope if there are any serious breaches of trust or misconduct they do something about. We will see. Remember that the Baro is elected by the advocates and not by their clients

That means that the odd advocate can be disciplened but if the majority of advocates in Girne is in question, that is something else.

ismet



girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
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Message Posted:
10/10/2009 15:37

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Message 29 of 59 in Discussion

Ismet



Then letters will go out to the relevant advocates for an explanation. Some may be called for an interview and I hope if there are any serious breaches of trust or misconduct they do something about .



yeah right!



melbrandy


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 44

Message Posted:
10/10/2009 15:58

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Message 30 of 59 in Discussion

I view the conference as a PR exercise that could only fail....and it did so.

The obvious issues should have been addressed around enforcability of contracts, disciplining of advocates, complaints procedure for homebuyers, non enforcability of judgements (the precious few that are given for homebuyers), mortgaging of properties by the builder and PTP.

My ideal conference would have been for the chappie to stand up, say I AM SORRY.

Then take half a dozen issues and for each say , look i know this is a mess, this is what we intend to do to fix it.

Then humbly sit down and respond to questions.

Too simple i guess.



scruff


Joined: 15/07/2008
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Message Posted:
10/10/2009 17:18

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Message 31 of 59 in Discussion

I'm sorry to say that I did not bother to attend the meeting. I could see from the agenda that it would be a waste of time. I've attended far too many meetings with lawyers with Government Ministers in attendance in my time in Cyprus. Nothing will ever be done to help the thousands of buyers who cannot get title deeds.

It was, apparently, clearly stated, that new laws (if they are ever introduced) will assist these buyers.

I'm sick of wasting what's left of my life attending endless meetings which result in no change.



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
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Message Posted:
10/10/2009 17:28

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Message 32 of 59 in Discussion

"I have just spoken on the phone to the General Secretary of Baro and he told me that fax messages have been flooding in"

Who from? How many of us have fax machines?



I shall email my question 'What appeal procedure is there when you have been refused PTP?'



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
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Message Posted:
10/10/2009 17:37

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Message 33 of 59 in Discussion

scruff

I think you meant to say that new laws will NOT assist these buyers. I have to agree with those that would definately advise no one to buy property of any sort in the TRNC until the laws are changed and you can trust the lawyers.



scruff


Joined: 15/07/2008
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Message Posted:
10/10/2009 18:02

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Message 34 of 59 in Discussion

I did. Sorry for missing the word NOT. It would be so much better if there was an edit function.



Hector.

I have often given that advice to newly arrived buyers here but unfortunately they do not want to believe it. There are always new lambs to the slaughter arriving, unfortunately. Just not as many as before. I have been waiting for title deeds since 2002. Had PTP 6 mths after applying & before moving in.



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
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Message Posted:
10/10/2009 20:31

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Message 35 of 59 in Discussion

Scruff

Waiting since 2002! That must be a stressful and no doubt expensive story. I agree about the 'lambs to slaughter' there must be to encourage so many trainee lawyers that were evident at the conference. Mind you I'm sure that there are far fewer 'lambs' these days.



Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
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Message Posted:
10/10/2009 20:58

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Message 36 of 59 in Discussion

The legal process and upholders of it are not fit for purpose!



Richard



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
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Message Posted:
10/10/2009 23:23

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Message 37 of 59 in Discussion

Did anyone recognise any of the "alleged" solicitors that were present?



I saw one who represents our builder but he kept disappearing when I tried to get near to kill him!!!!!!!!!!!



From what is written so far and in CT none of the criminal "lawyers" made an appearance. Unless you know different.



Would someone like to open a book on a repeat visitation where a Q&A would take place???? A properly controlled Q&A would be interesting as long as it did not revert to a bun fight.



I do understand the position that scruff is coming from and J if people knew you from the press alone maybe they would too. However, if we can save at least one person from the problems we have had any protest is worthwhile.



David



Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
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Message Posted:
10/10/2009 23:30

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Message 38 of 59 in Discussion

Msg 37



'a bun fight'? It would be a bloody bazooka blood bath!



Richard



paddywack


Joined: 04/05/2009
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Message Posted:
10/10/2009 23:32

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Message 39 of 59 in Discussion

Why did anyone bother with this farce,what you must remember is,you are dealing with the legal profession in the middle east and not middle England.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
10/10/2009 23:35

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Message 40 of 59 in Discussion

Obviously, unless one has a dispute over a chicken, there seems no redress under current TRNC law!



The Speaker's own admission re the loopholes in the legal system demonstrates a political leadership that is totally incapable - they should have been too embarrassed to even admit their ineptitude.



Never mind the clapping, there should have been a mass walk out - that might have made them sit up and take notice.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
11/10/2009 12:10

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Message 41 of 59 in Discussion

For you information Feyzi Hansel, General Secretary of the Bar Council, has sent his comments to http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2009/10/10/lawyers-say-pay-the-ransom-or-your-villa-gets-it PLUS he says sorry on behalf of BARO!

Mal



Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
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Message Posted:
11/10/2009 13:16

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Message 42 of 59 in Discussion

RE 41...well, that sounds like step in the right direction!



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
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Message Posted:
11/10/2009 13:29

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Message 43 of 59 in Discussion

I welcome the input from Feyzi Hansel and BARO. I don't like or agree with his view that nothing can be done that will help solve the current buyers problems. I would also welcome the proposed new Advocates law but would like to read it first.



AlexF065


Joined: 07/09/2009
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Message Posted:
11/10/2009 15:25

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Message 44 of 59 in Discussion

Hi Ismet

Do you not think the Baro could force Advocates to declare that they cannot work for you as they are working for the Developer when buying new or the seller when buying second hand.



Or even better make it a rule that advocates are not allowed to work for both side of the sale and purchace of property and not to take a red cent from anybody untill the PRP is gained



This needs government intervention and I think it would only need a slight change ie you do not have to name a property just say a location ie

I want to live in lappta



scruff


Joined: 15/07/2008
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Message Posted:
11/10/2009 18:14

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Message 45 of 59 in Discussion

Re message 35

Hector.

Not so stressful these days because I no longer worry about the situation as I used to.

Mind you receiving a letter quite recently from the landowner's lawyer, saying that he was going to evict us after over 7 yrs of occupation was quite stressful. Maybe you read the story, on the front page of Cyprus Today, 3 mths ago?

Stress normally only occurs because we want to sell the house & move to a much smaller property, albeit to rent. I would NEVER buy here again.

Expensive yes. Back in early 2003, when the part of the site that our house is built on was parcelised & the Tapu came round to do the valuation, we would have been talking about spending 3% of the then, £80,000 valuation. So tax only £2,400. In 2002, when we first moved in, the valuation would have been £60,000. So transfer tax only £1,800.

Now in 2009, transfer tax on the full contract price. Payment to stamp the contract back in early 2008, (was it 2008?). 5% KDV on the contract price.

contd.



scruff


Joined: 15/07/2008
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Message Posted:
11/10/2009 18:15

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Message 46 of 59 in Discussion

contd.

Neither of the latter were being enforced back in 2002/3.

This means that a total bill to obtain title deeds runs to nearly £11,000 & that's without submitting to possible bribery from the landowner/builder.



Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
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Message Posted:
11/10/2009 18:29

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Message 47 of 59 in Discussion

Scruff



And you really thought that any change in the law reducing % tax/amnesty on whatever then backdating VAT retrospectively that you'd come out better off?! I think not! The legislators and the whole of the legal profession are not fit for purpose.



Richard



scruff


Joined: 15/07/2008
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Message Posted:
11/10/2009 18:32

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Message 48 of 59 in Discussion

re. msg. 37

"I do understand the position that scruff is coming from and J, if people knew you from the press alone maybe they would too. However, if we can save at least one person from the problems we have had any protest is worthwhile".

Believe me David I have tried, I can assure you.

Someone we know, now back in the UK. once said to me. "People come here to buy & leave their brains on the plane."

I suppose that could apply to me too. However I did, effectively buy a resale, held back a large retention in lieu of title deeds & took advocates advice not to move in until PTP was granted. I didn't pay for a water or electric meter or infrastructure & was never on builders electric. What more could I have done short of not buying at all. This would now be my advice to anyone thinking of living here.

It appears that AlexF065 message 44, is in the not yet bought category?

My advice is DON'T BUY. Just rent.



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
11/10/2009 18:33

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Message 49 of 59 in Discussion

Scruff

Appears you are a long way from having to pay taxes etc. How likely is the threat of eviction being carried out? A bloody awful situation to be in and a warning to anyone thinking of buying in the TRNC.



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
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Message Posted:
11/10/2009 19:14

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Message 50 of 59 in Discussion

msg. 44

Alex wrote:

"Do you not think the Baro could force Advocates to declare that they cannot work for you as they are working for the Developer when buying new or the seller when buying second hand."

They should not accept instructions from both sides if there is a conflict of interest. Trouble is developers keep sending buyers to a specific advocate. On one side he has to protect his client but on the other side he must keep the developer happy or no more work from him. How do you legistlate for that?





"Or even better make it a rule that advocates are not allowed to work for both side of the sale and purchace of property and not to take a red cent from anybody untill the PRP is gained"

Difficult to enforce. Indeed sometimes two people agree on general terms and jointly go to an advocate to put it in writing. Nothing wrong with that. It becomes a problem if a developer is in question. "not to take a red cent from anybody untill the PRP is gained" This is just not on, impossible to legistlate for such a thing and impossible to find an advocate to accept such a condition. PTP is outside their control.

ismet



scruff


Joined: 15/07/2008
Posts: 1070

Message Posted:
11/10/2009 19:15

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Message 51 of 59 in Discussion

msg. 47.

Brinsley. I'm not sure you really understood my posting. I was not discussing or referring the amnesty. I think the increases to the costs of obtaining title deeds by the last Government might have resulted in it though.

msg. 49.

Hector.

He has one chance - no chance at all. The contract is registered & he signed the contract. It's just posturing on his part.

Have you heard the expression "over my dead body". It's very apt in this case. msg. 47.

Brinsley. I'm not sure you really understood my posting. I was not discussing or referring the amnesty. I think the increases to the costs of obtaining title deeds by the last Government might have resulted in it though.



scruff


Joined: 15/07/2008
Posts: 1070

Message Posted:
11/10/2009 19:20

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Message 52 of 59 in Discussion

Sorry Brinsley. My last message copied into & then from word pad, includes duplication.



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
11/10/2009 19:25

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Message 53 of 59 in Discussion

msg. 44 ctd.

Alex wrote:

This needs government intervention and I think it would only need a slight change ie you do not have to name a property just say a location ie



I want to live in lappta "

No half measure for me please. If PTP is really necessarry, it shoud be given to the person without a specifgic property or location. Some areas can be designated as critical subject to special permission. So unless you want to buy from one of these critical locations, you should get your PTP first and than shop around, pay the money and get the title, as simple as that.

ismet



AlexF065


Joined: 07/09/2009
Posts: 271

Message Posted:
11/10/2009 19:25

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Message 54 of 59 in Discussion

mes 50

Ismet

They should not accept instructions from both sides if there is a conflict of interest. Trouble is developers keep sending buyers to a specific advocate. On one side he has to protect his client but on the other side he must keep the developer happy or no more work from him. How do you legistlate for that?



well I have to say I am not sure but what i do know is that here in UK solicitors /Advocates/conveyances ect are not allowed i think by bar council and Law society rules to work for both sides



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
11/10/2009 19:30

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Message 55 of 59 in Discussion

msg. 50

They will simply deny working for both sides, after all they get paid by the buyer only!!!

ismet



Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
11/10/2009 19:37

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Message 56 of 59 in Discussion

Ismet



What sort of training/schooling/education, does one have to have in TRNC to be an 'Advocate'???????????

I think the answer is, maybe...........................



'CONFLICT OF INTEREST'



Therefore, I am unable to represent you!



Richard



Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
11/10/2009 20:54

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Message 57 of 59 in Discussion

Only three questions were allowed from the floor, the last one a representative of the BRS who spent three quarters of his time thanking the Bar Council panel before asking a relevant question! The plot thickens!



Richard



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
11/10/2009 21:04

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Message 58 of 59 in Discussion

msg. 57

Richard,

I think you have to be a gentleman before ytou can become a member of BRS. Is there such a thing as a "gentlewoman" or is it a contradictory term?

I am going into hiding once again!

ismet



Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
11/10/2009 21:18

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Message 59 of 59 in Discussion

Ismet



No worries Ismet, even I think you'd be allowed into NZ especially on my recommendation though, putting you on the rugby field I cannot guarantee the gentleness of whatever gender you may encounter!



Richard



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